The Resurrection and Heaven

[Gary]

So if I repent once, that means I am forever in heaven...........................right?

No. Each time we sin we buy some trouble for ourselves. However, if we can stop sinning, the trouble stops coming our way.

If God is not in heaven, where is He?

I ask this because the bible states that God is in heaven and you claim you can only find heaven through repentance. If you are right and the bible is right, that means God is in a constant state of repentance.

But that can't be right because you said God only changed His mind once and once isn't enough to keep Him in heaven forever.

So where is God if not in heaven?
.

 

[Free]

Here is the definition of the resurrection:

[25] Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,
[26] and whoever lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?" RSV

No, that is not the definition of resurrection. The definition as given by Merriam-Webster: "the state of one risen from the dead".

And here is the definition for resurrect:
": to bring (a dead person) back to life

: to cause (something that had ended or been forgotten or lost) to exist again, to be used again, etc."

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/resurrect?show=0&t=1398826978

The resurrection is something that happens to us. A quick search in the Bible for the word "resurrection" proves this to be the case.

To discover the definition of heaven, do as Jesus instructed:

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

When you repent of your sin, a marvelous peace comes over you.

And? That does not at all mean that the definition of heaven is repentance. Some verses have been given and many more can be provided that show that heaven is a place.

This is Sunday school stuff, so easy to grasp. How is it that you do not even know such simple truths of Scripture?

 

[Stan1953]

I believe you will find that the resurrection is the physical place we go when we die, and heaven is the peace we have when we repent of our sin.
From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

Paul speaks about this in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4.
Believers who die before Jesus' return go to Paradise and unbelievers go to Hades. This is illustrated in Luke 16:19-31.
Heaven is for God ONLY. We as believers will live first on this earth in the thousand year reign of Jesus after He returns, and then in the new earth, as depicted in Rev 20 and 21.
The kingdom of heaven was a state of spiritual awakening that Jesus referred to as being born again. It was giving God rule on you heart, not a place we physically go.

 

[jasonc]

Paul speaks about this in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4.
Believers who die before Jesus' return go to Paradise and unbelievers go to Hades. This is illustrated in Luke 16:19-31.
Heaven is for God ONLY. We as believers will live first on this earth in the thousand year reign of Jesus after He returns, and then in the new earth, as depicted in Rev 20 and 21.
The kingdom of heaven was a state of spiritual awakening that Jesus referred to as being born again. It was giving God rule on you heart, not a place we physically go.

paul said to be absent in body was to present with the lord. where is the lord?

 

[Stan1953]

paul said to be absent in body was to present with the lord. where is the lord?

Actually what Paul said is properly rendered as; "We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from this body and to live with the Lord." Paul knew what that meant, as evidenced by his teaching on the subject in 1 Cor 15 and 1 Thess 4.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I believe you will find that the resurrection is the physical place we go when we die, and heaven is the peace we have when we repent of our sin.

From that time Jesus began to preach, saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Matt 4:17 RSV

Let's look at some more relevant Scriptures regarding Resurrection.

Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:4-6 (ESV)

Notice, "coming to life," is what the resurrection is. The Greek word anástasis which is translated "resurrection," literally means to rise up, within the context of the NT it means to rise from the dead. This is described as an event, where believers will rise and reign with Christ for 1000 years in the "first resurrection," the second would be at the final judgment.

Heaven is ultimately God's realm that will break into our realm and there will be a New Heavens and New Earth when God restores creation and places himself among man to reign forever. This theme of God's kingdom breaking into ours goes back to Jesus' ministry, where the Kingdom of God (or Kingdom of Heaven if you're reading Matthew) is to come, YET already arrived in his ministry and resurrection. That God has begun making all things new and he has started with his people, whom he has caused to be born anew and given the Holy Spirit, the down payment of the that future inheritance. We then bring that kingdom with us and seek to make things on earth as they are in heaven.

 

[cyberjosh]

From the title of this thread I thought it was going in a different direction. I thought this would be a question of eternal dwelling place. The fact is that Jesus never refers to heaven as our eternal dwelling place and when he (or the Jews) refer to the age to come they refer to it with the phrase "in the resurrection" which contextually seems to indicate not only the resurrection of our bodies itself, but also the following age/period that is defined by that resurrection event.

It is referred to as such when Jesus tells the priests that there will be no marriage in the age to come, and they refer to it as "in the resurrection" and not as "in heaven". I think it is clear from Revelation and Isaiah that we will dwell on the New Earth in eternity. So calling the place where we will be in the age to come "heaven", I believe, is a misunderstanding. The saints who die before the final resurrection and judgment will indeed go to heaven to be with the Lord, for the time being, but eventually Christ will reign supreme on the New Earth I believe.

 

[cyberjosh]

Ah, I see that Doulos Iesou beat me to it partly.

Doulos: I am fascinated at your reference to the kingdom of heaven as "breaking into" the earthly realm. Where did you learn that terminology from? I am writing a book on the Kingdom of Heaven theme in Matthew and that concept of "breaking in" (which I can rightly say I am indebted to evangelist Dutch Sheets for that terminology) was absolutely pivotal to my understanding of the kingdom. Dutch describes the kingdom as "an invasionary force from heaven", which I absolutely love for the mental picture that it evokes!

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Ah, I see that Doulos Iesou beat me to it partly.

Doulos: I am fascinated at your reference to the kingdom of heaven as "breaking into" the earthly realm. Where did you learn that terminology from? I am writing a book on the Kingdom of Heaven theme in Matthew and that concept of "breaking in" (which I can rightly say I am indebted to evangelist Dutch Sheets for that terminology) was absolutely pivotal to my understanding of the kingdom. Dutch describes the kingdom as "an invasionary force from heaven", which I absolutely love for the mental picture that it evokes!

That's a good question, which I am not sure I know exactly where I first heard this from. I personally love the terminology, and I see it greatly shown in the event of the temple veil. Or in this verse.

From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. Matthew 11:12 (ESV)

I've heard the terminology in preaching at my church I think, which has it's roots in Pentecostalism (I probably don't seem like I come from a Pentacostal church lol). I also am pretty sure N.T. Wright has used the term... checking...

Here:
"To pray “your kingdom come” at Jesus’ bidding, therefore, meant to align oneself with his kingdom movement and to seek God’s power in furthering its ultimate fulfillment.It meant adding one’s own prayer to the total performance of Jesus’ agenda.It meant celebrating in the presence of God the fact that the kingdom was already breaking in, and looking eagerly for its consummation."
http://ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Christian_Prayer.htm

 

[cyberjosh]

That's a good question, which I am not sure I know exactly where I first heard this from. I personally love the terminology, and I see it greatly shown in the event of the temple veil. Or in this verse.

From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. Matthew 11:12 (ESV)

I've heard the terminology in preaching at my church I think, which has it's roots in Pentecostalism (I probably don't seem like I come from a Pentacostal church lol). I also am pretty sure N.T. Wright has used the term... checking...

Here:
"To pray “your kingdom come” at Jesus’ bidding, therefore, meant to align oneself with his kingdom movement and to seek God’s power in furthering its ultimate fulfillment.It meant adding one’s own prayer to the total performance of Jesus’ agenda.It meant celebrating in the presence of God the fact that the kingdom was already breaking in, and looking eagerly for its consummation."
http://ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Christian_Prayer.htm

Nice! I think I may have to use that quote in my book now.

P.S. I will PM you something else so that we don't go too far off topic here.

 

[Free]

I also am pretty sure N.T. Wright has used the term... checking...

Here:
"To pray “your kingdom come” at Jesus’ bidding, therefore, meant to align oneself with his kingdom movement and to seek God’s power in furthering its ultimate fulfillment.It meant adding one’s own prayer to the total performance of Jesus’ agenda.It meant celebrating in the presence of God the fact that the kingdom was already breaking in, and looking eagerly for its consummation."
http://ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Christian_Prayer.htm

Ha ha. I was going to mention N. T. Wright. This is very much one of his central themes he speaks of in a few of his books. I think Dallas Willard has similar ideas as well but it's been a little while since I read either of them.

 

[Free]

P.S. I will PM you something else so that we don't go too far off topic here.

Has that ever stopped you before? ;) I think the topic has more or less run its course anyway, so a tangent here or there won't hurt.

 

[cyberjosh]

Has that ever stopped you before? ;) I think the topic has more or less run its course anyway, so a tangent here or there won't hurt.

Oww. Zing!!! Touché! ;-) I have a video teaching that I made on the Kingdom of Heaven that I wanted to share, pertaining to the "breaking in" theme we were talking about above. If you don't think it will be too off topic I'll share here publicly for everyone.

 

[brother Paul]

The rising of the dead (“anastasis nekron”) literally means “the standing of the corpse.”...

Here is one to think about...since nothing is greater than God, Heaven cannot be a "place" wherein God dwells, but rather a place of His making where He can be manifest to His creatures...who could believe there is a place larger than God that could contain all that He is? God making a place more all encompassing than Himself is like the rock so big question...

 

[Free]

Oww. Zing!!! Touché! ;-) I have a video teaching that I made on the Kingdom of Heaven that I wanted to share, pertaining to the "breaking in" theme we were talking about above. If you don't think it will be too off topic I'll share here publicly for everyone.

Now that I've thought about it, perhaps it would be better to start a thread on it. The idea that heaven is "breaking in" is, I think, a topic of significant importance and one which it seems much of Christianity has gotten wrong. We may have some slightly differing views on the matter which could be beneficial.

 

[Deborah13]

Ah, I see that Doulos Iesou beat me to it partly.

Doulos: I am fascinated at your reference to the kingdom of heaven as "breaking into" the earthly realm. Where did you learn that terminology from? I am writing a book on the Kingdom of Heaven theme in Matthew and that concept of "breaking in" (which I can rightly say I am indebted to evangelist Dutch Sheets for that terminology) was absolutely pivotal to my understanding of the kingdom. Dutch describes the kingdom as "an invasionary force from heaven", which I absolutely love for the mental picture that it evokes!

Yes and .....
Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

First for salvation and then by....

Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.