The Resurrection of the Damned

[Hopeful]

I think you misunderstand sir. Death releases us from our sin. The resurrection of damnation is misleading because of the words the translators chose when putting it into English. Acts 24:15 words it a bit differently using the terms righteous/just and the unrighteous/unjust. The Bible states that all will be resurrected from hell Rev 20:13 thus being completely emptied. Unjust ones are not necessarily evil, but were not God's people for various reasons. This would include the billions of people who have lived who never heard of Him Robert.

I understand where you are coming from for sure, but everyone who will be resurrected have had their sins paid for by Jesus' death. We all start fresh and it is at the end of the thousand years that we come to life, and get tested with satan's release. Those who fail there undergo the lake of fire which is permanent.

Death only releases us from our sins if our death is with Christ at our water baptism into His death.
There is still day of judgement coming, in which all shall get what they deserve.

 

[Hopeful]

The original word for die in Romans 6:7 is apothnēskō. Which means literally to die, perish, but the use in this verse and other verses isn't literal death
Verses that also use the same word
Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead (apothnēskō) to the law, that I might live unto God.
Colossians 3:3 For ye are dead (apothnēskō), and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead (apothnēskō) with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances
Romans 6:10 For in that he died (apothnēskō), he died (apothnēskō) unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Romans 6:8 Now if we be dead (apothnēskō) with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him

According to Thayer's Greek Lexicon the word death in the original language and context means:
- "to become wholly alienated from a thing, and freed from all connection with it"
- "your relation to it has passed away"
- true Christians are said simply apothnēskō (die), as having put off all sensibility to worldly things that draw them away from God, since they owe this habit of mind to the death of Christ, they are said also apothnēskō sync christos (literally mean to "die with Christ")
as said in Romans 6:8 and Colossians 2:20.

If our death with Christ wasn't literal, neither were we literally raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
The idea that I wasn't literally reborn scares me.

 

[Hopeful]

That is the only way sir, believing it and following it will lead to unimaginable rewards. Even in this life following it's wise counsel gives us a much healthier and happier life.

Sure, if you don't believe sin comes with damnation, life gets a lot happier.
And crueler.

 

[Rookie]

If our death with Christ wasn't literal, neither were we literally raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
The idea that I wasn't literally reborn scares me.

?

 

[Highway54]

That contradicts literally everything Jesus & the Bible said about hell and who will be in it.

Revelation 21:8 "8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Revelation 20:11-14 11 "Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

Ephesians 5:5-7
"For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God." Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partners with them;


Galatians 5:19-21
"Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."

Hebrews 10:26
"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins"

1 Corinthians 15:50
"I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."

Matthew 7:13-14
"13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

Revelation 21:27
"But nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life."

Luke 16:19-26 Talks about the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man lived in luxury and Lazarus in poverty, the rich man went to hell, while Lazarus went to comfort. Didn't say the rich man sinned against the Holy Spirit though!

Jude 1:27 "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire."

And you recognize many don't want forgiveness, don't want to be free from sin, don't want Jesus and don't want heaven, so you really think when we die, whether we like it or not we are all going to heaven unless we commit the unforgivable blasphemy? You took one verse extremely out of context and made up your own doctrine which is exceedingly false, the verses I listed don't even scratch the surface of how much in error your theology is.

It all comes with understanding sir. Timing, literal, and other things come into play. What I said of course does not contradict, you just perceive it so. Do you know what gehenna is, or what the second death means Soldiers?

 

[Highway54]

Death only releases us from our sins if our death is with Christ at our water baptism into His death.
There is still day of judgement coming, in which all shall get what they deserve.

I do not disagree, but we most likely will disagree in that you believe they will be judged on what they did with this life, and I say only the ones given the judgment of gehenna will, and the 144k as well. Everyone else will be judged during the millennial reign of Christ upon what they do during that time period. Those who gain eternal life at the end of the thousand yrs Rev 20:5 will have to undergo being tested by satan as did Adam and Eve. Rev 20:7-9

 

[Highway54]

Sure, if you don't believe sin comes with damnation, life gets a lot happier.
And crueler.

Define Damnation Hopeful.

 

[Rookie]

It all comes with understanding sir. Timing, literal, and other things come into play. What I said of course does not contradict, you just perceive it so. Do you know what gehenna is, or what the second death means Soldiers?

Of course, Gehenna is the second death, or the lake of fire (or burning sulfur) the final judgement for whoever isn't found in the Lambs book of life.

And how can you prove you're understanding doesn't contradict Scripture? Some things are just is what it is, no need for our own interpretation. This is why we have 700 or so denominations because people take their new ideas too far and create a whole division in Christianity when we are supposed to be one. And God is not the author of confusion.

I think you misunderstand sir. Death releases us from our sin. The resurrection of damnation is misleading because of the words the translators chose when putting it into English. Acts 24:15 words it a bit differently using the terms righteous/just and the unrighteous/unjust. The Bible states that all will be resurrected from hell Rev 20:13 thus being completely emptied. Unjust ones are not necessarily evil, but were not God's people for various reasons. This would include the billions of people who have lived who never heard of Him Robert.

The Bible says "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20

And Philippians 2:10-11 "10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

So we may think there are "billions" of people who never heard of them but God says that He got that covered. No one will be able to say on judgement day that they never knew better. In sometime during every man's lifetime he will encounter Jesus, God said so, and He is infinite and all-knowing and all-powerful so we don't need to worry.

And it's sad you rather believe your theory is correct and the translators of the were in error (which destroys the credibility of the Bible) them humbling your theory to the knowledge of God.

2 Corinthians 10:5 AMPC
[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),


And assuming your theory is correct, why does Christ say many are on the path to destruction and few on the path to life?

What about those who don't want to go to heaven or who are unfit for the Kingdom? Will Christ just force them there?

Why live for Christ and why don't we live as we please if were are all going to heaven anyways?

Why does it speak of those who aren't in the Lambs book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire?

The verses I mentioned in the previous comment and the Greek break-down I did, how does it support your theory?

And please address my comments and don't just give a repetitive answer but actually detail by detail address what I've brought up in this thread, unless you are intentionally bypassing it so you won't have to address the possible flaws of your theories.

 

[Hopeful]

Define Damnation Hopeful.

The lake of fire.

 

[Highway54]

Of course, Gehenna is the second death, or the lake of fire (or burning sulfur) the final judgement for whoever isn't found in the Lambs book of life.

And how can you prove you're understanding doesn't contradict Scripture? Some things are just is what it is, no need for our own interpretation. This is why we have 700 or so denominations because people take their new ideas too far and create a whole division in Christianity when we are supposed to be one. And God is not the author of confusion.

The Bible says "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." Romans 1:20

And Philippians 2:10-11 "10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

So we may think there are "billions" of people who never heard of them but God says that He got that covered. No one will be able to say on judgement day that they never knew better. In sometime during every man's lifetime he will encounter Jesus, God said so, and He is infinite and all-knowing and all-powerful so we don't need to worry.

And it's sad you rather believe your theory is correct and the translators of the were in error (which destroys the credibility of the Bible) them humbling your theory to the knowledge of God.

2 Corinthians 10:5 AMPC
[Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),


And assuming your theory is correct, why does Christ say many are on the path to destruction and few on the path to life?

What about those who don't want to go to heaven or who are unfit for the Kingdom? Will Christ just force them there?

Why live for Christ and why don't we live as we please if were are all going to heaven anyways?

Why does it speak of those who aren't in the Lambs book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire?

The verses I mentioned in the previous comment and the Greek break-down I did, how does it support your theory?

And please address my comments and don't just give a repetitive answer but actually detail by detail address what I've brought up in this thread, unless you are intentionally bypassing it so you won't have to address the possible flaws of your theories.

Of course, Gehenna is the second death, or the lake of fire (or burning sulfur) the final judgement for whoever isn't found in the Lambs book of life.

And how can you prove you're understanding doesn't contradict Scripture?

We agree. If you see me post something you feel contradicts Scripture please ask me to elaborate on it sir.

And assuming your theory is correct, why does Christ say many are on the path to destruction and few on the path to life?

What is my theory Soldiers? Because most will not recognize and go with God's people Zech 8:23

What about those who don't want to go to heaven or who are unfit for the Kingdom? Will Christ just force them there?

We cannot choose to go to heaven sir. God personally has chosen them.

Why live for Christ and why don't we live as we please if were are all going to heaven anyways?

The Bible states 144,000 are redeemed from the earth Rev 14:3

Why does it speak of those who aren't in the Lambs book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire?

Kind of self explanatory don't you think? They are not in Jesus' book of life.

The verses I mentioned in the previous comment and the Greek break-down I did, how does it support your theory?

Again, what is my theory Soldiers?

 

[Highway54]

The lake of fire.

No sir, the lake of fire is a symbolic term for a judgment which is defined as the second death. If you realize that there are only two outcomes offered by God, life or death. Those who are not written in the book of life, are destroyed, gone eternally.

 

[Rookie]

Again, what is my theory Soldiers?

Your theory seems to be, only the ones who've blasphemed the Holy Spirit will end up in Gehenna, which is just not true (Revelation 21:9)
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
(Galatians 5:17-19)

And Jesus clearly said few will find life and many will find death, and not everyone who claims to be of God is really of God and won't enter God's Kingdom (Matthew 7)

And the number 144,000 doesn't really help you because in literal terms 144,000 compared to 8 billion currently living and the tens of billions who have lived and who will live. And in symbolic terms 12 stands for the twelve tribes of Isreal, and/or the 12 apostles and 1,000 a lot 144,000 is 12x12x1,000.

 

[Hopeful]

No sir, the lake of fire is a symbolic term for a judgment which is defined as the second death. If you realize that there are only two outcomes offered by God, life or death. Those who are not written in the book of life, are destroyed, gone eternally.

I disagree, and I am not taking the chance that I may be wrong.

 

[Highway54]

Your theory seems to be, only the ones who've blasphemed the Holy Spirit will end up in Gehenna, which is just not true (Revelation 21:9)
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10)
(Galatians 5:17-19)

And Jesus clearly said few will find life and many will find death, and not everyone who claims to be of God is really of God and won't enter God's Kingdom (Matthew 7)

And the number 144,000 doesn't really help you because in literal terms 144,000 compared to 8 billion currently living and the tens of billions who have lived and who will live. And in symbolic terms 12 stands for the twelve tribes of Isreal, and/or the 12 apostles and 1,000 a lot 144,000 is 12x12x1,000.

Your theory seems to be, only the ones who've blasphemed the Holy Spirit will end up in Gehenna, which is just not true

I agree, but all of them who did do.

And Jesus clearly said few will find life and many will find death, and not everyone who claims to be of God is really of God and won't enter God's Kingdom (Matthew 7)

I agree once again.

And the number 144,000 doesn't really help you because in literal terms 144,000 compared to 8 billion currently living and the tens of billions who have lived and who will live. And in symbolic terms 12 stands for the twelve tribes of Isreal, and/or the 12 apostles and 1,000 a lot 144,000 is 12x12x1,000.

Who are the other sheep Soldiers John 10:16

 

[Highway54]

I disagree, and I am not taking the chance that I may be wrong.

What do you disagree with Hopeful?

 

[Hopeful]

What do you disagree with Hopeful?

The lake of fire is a real place.
If it were simply symbolic how could anyone or thing be cast into it?

 

[Highway54]

The lake of fire is a real place.
If it were simply symbolic how could anyone or thing be cast into it?

By it's definition sir, the second death. Death and Hell is not literally going to be burned up in the lake of fire, they will simply be done away with as the symbolic lake of fire indicates. Rev 1:1 shows that Revelation is given to us in signs, the lake of fire signifies gehenna, which is a judgment of everlasting death Hopeful. That is why God chose to define it as the second death so we would know what it meant.

 

[Hopeful]

By it's definition sir, the second death. Death and Hell is not literally going to be burned up in the lake of fire, they will simply be done away with as the symbolic lake of fire indicates. Rev 1:1 shows that Revelation is given to us in signs, the lake of fire signifies gehenna, which is a judgment of everlasting death Hopeful. That is why God chose to define it as the second death so we would know what it meant.

I, by the grace of God, am doing all I can not to go to whatever it is.
Burning forever or simply snuffed out are not what I live for.
Thank God for making it possible to keep my name in the book of life.

 

[Highway54]

I, by the grace of God, am doing all I can not to go to whatever it is.
Burning forever or simply snuffed out are not what I live for.
Thank God for making it possible to keep my name in the book of life.

Great! Obedience to the law of the Christ is what it takes Hopeful. Draw close to God and He will draw close to you sir.

 

[Robert Pate]

Great! Obedience to the law of the Christ is what it takes Hopeful. Draw close to God and He will draw close to you sir.

If obedience to the law is what it takes, then why did Paul say, "The law works wrath: for where there is no law, there is no transgression" Romans 4:15.