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The Rich Man and Lazarus, a Parable or a literal account
- Thread starter Agape
- Start date
Agape
Member
Agreed! Parable or not the teaching behind it remains the same.
Yes it is but can people in Hell and people in Heaven speak to each other as it is the case in Luke 16:19-31?
Abraham was not in heaven at the time, rather he was in the heart of the earth.
22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Luke 16:22-23
Jesus Christ descended into the heart of the earth for three days after He was crucified.
40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:40
and again -
8 Therefore He says: "When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men." 9 (Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? Ephesians 4:8-9
To the thief on the cross Jesus said -
And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise. Luke 23:43
Abraham's Bosom was in the heart of the earth which was also called Paradise.
JLB
iLOVE
Member
Before the resurrection of Lord Jesus Christ all of the dead was kept in hell. The save was seperated from the unsave. God would not allow Satan to mess with the save, only the unsave. However it appears that the unsave could speak to Abraham.
R
rrowell
Guest
the meaning is the same as the Lazarus in John 11, (Definition: Lazarus = "whom God helps")
So your point is?
F
felix
Guest
It is a parable but Christ gives a glimpse of literal places after death.
I find it interesting that many would like to apply this passage as literal teaching about heaven and hell. If one wants to apply this passage as literal, how about applying all of it...
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
If you won't hear Moses and the Prophets, you won't hear Christ.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
If you won't hear Moses and the Prophets, you won't hear Christ.
Who was this passage aimed at?
Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
He was speaking to the Pharisees and those around them. How did He speak to them...
Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
He was speaking to them in parables, Luke 16, Lazarus and the Rich Man is a parable.
Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
He was speaking to the Pharisees and those around them. How did He speak to them...
Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
He was speaking to them in parables, Luke 16, Lazarus and the Rich Man is a parable.
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J
JCitoL
Guest
it is a parable, the "rich man" symbolizes the spiritual servants of human(666) religion, while "lazarus" emblematizes the infidel people in trouble/affliction/need, and Abraham represents the servants of God's Kingdom, the "rich man" saw them because they looked for people in trouble/affliction/need with a view to help them, but they were not able to help him for the true God was in a deeper state of somnolence in that moment, that is why Abraham said him that there is a pathless/impassable distance between them and him, then the "rich man" ask Abraham whether is it possible someone to warn the other spiritual servants of human(666) religion, but Abraham said him that if they are not enough careful about the things in the faith so they can violate the Holy Law of faith given of the true God by Moses whose Scripture they have and thus they may also come in the same situation like him
Blessings
Blessings
Ernest T. Bass
Member
I've always viewed as literal for;
1) in most if not every time Jesus told a parable it is called a parable yet this account is not called a parable.
2) Jesus calls real people by name as there was a real, literal Abraham
3) in Lk 16:19 Jesus said "There was a certain rich man" and verse 20 "And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus", there was a certain real, literal rich man and beggar.
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If this is literal if violates certain scriptures...
Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
He was definitely not teaching the disciples privately here.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Abraham beat Him to it.
Agape
Member
What do you mean by "human(666) religion"?
O
Osgiliath
Guest
Oh my goodness. I cannot believe what I read in this forum sometimes. People will tear the Scriptures to pieces to hold on to their idols of the heart; especially their 'beloved' demonic abomination: eternal torment!
The Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable. Jesus is in the midst of teaching five parables, beginning in Luke 15:3 with the parable of the lost sheep. Following that are the parables of the lost coin, the prodigal son, the unjust administrator, and Lazarus and the Rich Man. The purpose of these parables is to teach the Pharisees a lesson about how they treat publicans and sinners. If you take the Rich Man parable literally (which many in here apparently do), you have to throw out everything the rest of the scriptures have to say about death. And that's just the beginning.
Is Lazarus literally sitting on the bosom of Abraham? Why not, if this is literal? In the parable, the Rich Man is damned because he was rich and wore fine things. Lazarus is sitting on Abraham's bosom simply because he got bad things in this life. Is there anything at all here about the Gospel, or about faith? If you're going to make this parable the criteria for either being consciously tormented in flames or sitting on Abraham's bosom for eternity, then you’re going to have to base salvation on wealth, not faith. What is the criteria for Salvation in this context? Physical disadvantage only? There is nothing whatsoever about faith here.
Since this is a five-fold parable, beginning in chapter 15, why don't you make the Prodigal Son in 15:11-32 literal? At the end of the parable, the father says, "This, my son, was dead." Why don’t you take that death literally? Using your system of interpreting parables literally, you can use the parable of the prodigal son to prove that, after people die, they go off to a far country, spend all their money on hookers and booze, then end up in a pig pen eating cob... no corn.
The parable of Lazarus and the Rich man has become a theological passport to the mutilation of hundreds of verses of Scripture. Next to the gross error in translating the Greek aion (a period of time with a beginning and an end) into an English eternity (no time at all, neither having a beginning nor an ending), I know of no greater misrepresentation of any section of Scripture than this parable. And the multitudes have no desire to know the truth because they refuse to give up their precious idols in their hearts; which causes them to stumble:
Ezekiel 14:3 "....they have set up their idols in their hearts, and put before them that which causes them to stumble into iniquity. Should I let Myself be inquired of at all by them?
Anyone who denies this is a parable errs not knowing the Scriptures. Why? Because Jesus spoke ONLY in parables among the multitudes (including the Pharisees) of people who followed Him wherever He went.
Matthew 13:34 "All these things Jesus speaks in parables to the multitudes, and apart from a parable He spoke NOTHING to them..."
As the verse above tells us, EVERYTHING that was spoken to the multitudes was done so in parables: "apart from A PARABLE He spoke NOTHING to them."
Jesus spoke in parables so that the multitudes would NOT understand Him:
Matthew 13:10 "Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Matthew 13:11 "He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."
Not even the apostles understood these parables. Jesus had to explain their meaning to them in private (Matthew 13:18, 36; Matthew 15:15).
The fact that Jesus spoke to the masses in parables ONLY, ought to be sufficient Scriptural evidence to anyone that Lazarus And The Rich Man is a parable, geez!
Yea, let God be true, but every man a liar!
The Rich Man and Lazarus is a parable. Jesus is in the midst of teaching five parables, beginning in Luke 15:3 with the parable of the lost sheep. Following that are the parables of the lost coin, the prodigal son, the unjust administrator, and Lazarus and the Rich Man. The purpose of these parables is to teach the Pharisees a lesson about how they treat publicans and sinners. If you take the Rich Man parable literally (which many in here apparently do), you have to throw out everything the rest of the scriptures have to say about death. And that's just the beginning.
Is Lazarus literally sitting on the bosom of Abraham? Why not, if this is literal? In the parable, the Rich Man is damned because he was rich and wore fine things. Lazarus is sitting on Abraham's bosom simply because he got bad things in this life. Is there anything at all here about the Gospel, or about faith? If you're going to make this parable the criteria for either being consciously tormented in flames or sitting on Abraham's bosom for eternity, then you’re going to have to base salvation on wealth, not faith. What is the criteria for Salvation in this context? Physical disadvantage only? There is nothing whatsoever about faith here.
Since this is a five-fold parable, beginning in chapter 15, why don't you make the Prodigal Son in 15:11-32 literal? At the end of the parable, the father says, "This, my son, was dead." Why don’t you take that death literally? Using your system of interpreting parables literally, you can use the parable of the prodigal son to prove that, after people die, they go off to a far country, spend all their money on hookers and booze, then end up in a pig pen eating cob... no corn.
The parable of Lazarus and the Rich man has become a theological passport to the mutilation of hundreds of verses of Scripture. Next to the gross error in translating the Greek aion (a period of time with a beginning and an end) into an English eternity (no time at all, neither having a beginning nor an ending), I know of no greater misrepresentation of any section of Scripture than this parable. And the multitudes have no desire to know the truth because they refuse to give up their precious idols in their hearts; which causes them to stumble:
Ezekiel 14:3 "....they have set up their idols in their hearts, and put before them that which causes them to stumble into iniquity. Should I let Myself be inquired of at all by them?
Anyone who denies this is a parable errs not knowing the Scriptures. Why? Because Jesus spoke ONLY in parables among the multitudes (including the Pharisees) of people who followed Him wherever He went.
Matthew 13:34 "All these things Jesus speaks in parables to the multitudes, and apart from a parable He spoke NOTHING to them..."
As the verse above tells us, EVERYTHING that was spoken to the multitudes was done so in parables: "apart from A PARABLE He spoke NOTHING to them."
Jesus spoke in parables so that the multitudes would NOT understand Him:
Matthew 13:10 "Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Matthew 13:11 "He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given."
Not even the apostles understood these parables. Jesus had to explain their meaning to them in private (Matthew 13:18, 36; Matthew 15:15).
The fact that Jesus spoke to the masses in parables ONLY, ought to be sufficient Scriptural evidence to anyone that Lazarus And The Rich Man is a parable, geez!
Yea, let God be true, but every man a liar!
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J
JCitoL
Guest
the unrighteous religion(-s) based on human doctrines and ordinances unlike the right faith which is based entirely on the Commandments of the true God and Jesus
Mark 7:6-8 "This people(i.e. these spiritual servants/workers) honoureth me with their lips, but their heart(i.e. but their faith/spiritual ministry) is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men",
Colossians 2:20-23 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world(i.e. from the unrighteous creeds/doctrines), why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not(viz. do not have a sex life); taste not(viz. do not consume one or another natural food or drink); handle not(viz. deny the physical(bodily) sense activities); Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men? Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom(i.e. a show of faith/spirituality/religion) in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh(i.e. but are not wholesome in the wrestle against (the indulgence of) satan and in the true saturation of the human being).",
Revelation 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number(i.e. the spiritual/religious direction) of the beast: for it is the number of a man(i.e. of (the) unrighteous spiritual servants/workers); and his number is Six hundred threescore and six(viz. all against the physical creature/creation based on proud self-interest(-s))."
Blessings
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