The Rosary and apparitions....

[Mungo]

Please show us from the scripture where Jesus said Catholics belong to the Church He founded,



JLB

Catholics do not follow the unbiblical practice of Sola Scriptura.

You might find this thread helpful - Oral Tradition

 

[Mungo]

Please show us from the scripture where Jesus said Catholics belong to the Church He founded,



JLB

You might also find this post by Walpole helpful - The Catholic Church

 

[JLB]

Hi JLB,
Don't give me grief!
Did you read my post about the title POPE?
If you check out church history, you'll find that it's correct.

I know you want an answer from Mungo ...
but here's my two cents.

Catholics DO belong to the church Jesus founded...
At least, the way it was back then.

The Apostles passed on their teachings to the next generation, and so forth.
When the term Catholic (universal) began to be used, it was at that time.

It was coined by Ignatius of Antioch - probably my favorite church father.
He knew John and was taught by Peter, and most probably John too.

Let me find a link, please read it.

The first known use of "Catholic" was by the church father Saint Ignatius of Antioch in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans (circa 110 AD). In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_(term)#:~:text=The first known use of,rich history and several usages.

It's history J, no use fighting it.
It's the ORIGINAL church,
I don't know which one is the TRUE church anymore.

I'm just worried there won't be ANY church pretty soon.

Everybody seems to have their own opinion about their denomination, especially Catholics who claim many many things, and usally hace this link or that article to provide that they believe validates their "belief".

I asked for scripture.

I would like to see the words of Jesus that say "only Catholics belong to the Church He founded".




JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Everybody seems to have their own opinion about their denomination, especially Catholics who claim many many things, and usally hace this link or that article to provide that they believe validates their "belief".

I asked for scripture.

I would like to see the words of Jesus that say "only Catholics belong to the Church He founded".




JLB

I know you trust only scripture, but another member used to tell me the same thing...
he wanted to see something that is history, written in the NT.

This is impossible since it happened after, OR, it wasn't pertinent to the canonization of the NT.
Who could have known in 100AD that there would be a reformation and hundreds of denominations when back then there was only one?

You capitalized the word CHURCH (capital C), that would be the Body of Christ.
There is only one Body of Christ to this day...comprised of those born again believers of any denomination.

Then there is the church (small c) which means the institution, or the building that holds those that wish to worship God (and some that don't).

I think you mean the Institution.
If you do, this is part of history.
I don't know how you're going to get an answer when the answer is impossible to give.

 

[JLB]

I know you trust only scripture, but another member used to tell me the same thing...
he wanted to see something that is history, written in the NT.

This is impossible since it happened after, OR, it wasn't pertinent to the canonization of the NT.
Who could have known in 100AD that there would be a reformation and hundreds of denominations when back then there was only one?

You capitalized the word CHURCH (capital C), that would be the Body of Christ.
There is only one Body of Christ to this day...comprised of those born again believers of any denomination.

Then there is the church (small c) which means the institution, or the building that holds those that wish to worship God (and some that don't).

I think you mean the Institution.
If you do, this is part of history.
I don't know how you're going to get an answer when the answer is impossible to give.

Thank you for being honest.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you for being honest.

Always.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I dunno ?‍

I think the invisible church ️ is filled with people from different denominations. Some aspects of Catholicism scare me. I grew up somewhat liberal Presbyterian….

Which is to say nothing compelling. Didn’t get saved till later.

Anti catholic sentiment in the us historically goes hand in hand with anti immigrant sentiment racism anti social programs etc.

 

[GodsGrace]

I dunno ?‍

I think the invisible church ️ is filled with people from different denominations. Some aspects of Catholicism scare me. I grew up somewhat liberal Presbyterian….

Which is to say nothing compelling. Didn’t get saved till later.

Anti catholic sentiment in the us historically goes hand in hand with anti immigrant sentiment racism anti social programs etc.

What aspects scare you?

 

[Christ_empowered]

No abortion ever. Annulments. Mortal sin. Celibate priests. Also one of the meanest most money hungry and cruel psychiatrists I’ve ever dealt with.,.

Good ole boy catholic.

 

[donadams]

This thread is to discuss the request of the Blessed Mother to pray the Rosary and what her purported apparitions mean. Isay purported because according to Catholic doctrine no believer is required to believe them. However, if they are true, is it required that all followers of Christ believe and uphold the truth? Do her apparitions mean the Catholic Church is special and above all others or are her apparitions admonishments? How can we know if they are true and not lying spirits out to deceive believers? I think this should turn out to be a heated debate, wallflowers need not engage.

Let's start with the first purported apparition.

THE FIRST MARIAN APPARITION: OUR LADY OF THE PILLAR​

The first Marian apparition in history appeared to Saint James the Apostle, the brother of Saint John the Evangelist, on the bank of the river Ebro in Saragossa, Spain. Unlike every other recorded apparition, this one supposedly took place during the earthly life of the Mother of God. However, that would conflict with her Assumption at the Ascension of Christ, IMHO. I think the issue is, does the tradition of this apparition conflict with the truth scripture reveals and can it be proven? Afterall, we are told in scripture to test all spirits, that would include apparitions for God has not left His children without the proper tools as to not be deceived.
1 John 4:1-2
Testing the Spirits
1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,…
It is more than fair to say then, there must be hallmarks in true apparitions that a child of God may know of their legitimacy.
The Lady of the Pillars
According to tradition, she had promised Saint James that when he needed it most in his difficult mission to the pagans in today’s Spain, she would appear to him to encourage him.

In the year 40 A.D., while praying one night on the Ebro bank, the Virgin appeared with the Child Jesus standing on a pillar and asked Saint James and his eight disciples to build a church on the site, promising that “it will stand from that moment until the end of time in order that God may work miracles and wonders through my intercession for all those who place themselves under my patronage.”

The church of Our Lady of the Pillar in Zaragoza, is the first church dedicated to Mary in history and it remains standing to this day, having survived invasions and wars – in the Spanish Civil War of 1936-1939 three bombs were dropped on the church and none of them exploded.

Our Lady is also said to have given the small wooden statue of the apparition to Saint James which now stands on a pillar in the church.
Concerning the statue, is it ok to make an image of something shown to you by heaven like the Ark of the OC?
According to the tradition:
Nuestra Señora del Pilar is the patron of Spain and all Hispanic peoples. October 12, 1492, the feast of the Virgin of the Pillar, is the day Christopher Columbus first sighted American land, and when the first Mass in the Americas was celebrated.

What say you?

1st if James is the brother of John then they are the sons of zebedee, not Mary and Joseph (perpetual virginity)

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

2nd Mary was not assumed into heaven body and soul at the ascension of our lord but when she died years later.

3rd images are not forbidden only idols or idolatry are forbidden
Only God may be lawfully worshipped

4 the church was appoved and built by the apostolic church and approved later as you said to mungo so it passes the test!

Next

 

[GodsGrace]

1st if James is the brother of John then they are the sons of zebedee, not Mary and Joseph (perpetual virginity)

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

2nd Mary was not assumed into heaven body and soul at the ascension of our lord but when she died years later.

3rd images are not forbidden only idols or idolatry are forbidden
Only God may be lawfully worshipped

4 the church was appoved and built by the apostolic church and approved later as you said to mungo so it passes the test!

Next

I don't think you'll be getting a reply from Godismyjudge.

 

[donadams]

I don't think you'll be getting a reply from Godismyjudge.

You right