The Sabbath day and its origin.

[Sparkey]

Greetings! Yea, greetings in the Name to each who gather here!

There are many things that are part of what I consider to be the "meat" of the Word of God. The study and attempted understanding of our PROMISED REST is one of them. There are many. So, and to me? They way to go about it is to take a long and purposed course - I like to think of it as a relaxing meal, where I take some of the food (the word of God) and, and after asking His blessing for my growth thereby, I put it inside of me. In my mouth.

Taste. Feeling of the texture of it. What does this Scripture remind me of? The Ezekiel Scriptures quoted recently (above this post) for instance. "I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them."

Oh, my! That doesn't leave much room for me to do anything, does it? God will put His spirit in me. Wait a second -- I remember something one of my heroes, the energetic PETER said - it was on the first Pentecost... one moment, I'll fetch it for us:

He said (verse 14 of chapter 2 in the Acts of the Apostles): “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say..."

Then Peter, the little rock, started quoting a prophet who spoke about the day of Pentecost and what would happen. It was spoken a very long time ago. Joel (the insightful one) said:

‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams."

BUT --- and here's the thing. Check out what Peter said in verse 16. He said, "This is that..."
THIS (what you see here) is THAT (what he, Joel, said there).

This is that. This is what was promised. This is the rest wherewith the weary shall rest.

In Matthew 11:28, Jesus spoke about this same subject. He too quoted something that had been said a long time ago, this time said originally by the Prophet Isaiah.

• Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28
• Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Matthew 11:29
• And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. Isaiah 11:10
• For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not. Isaiah 30:15
• And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Isaiah 32:17
• And my people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation, and in sure dwellings, and in quiet resting places; Isaiah 32:18

• Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. Jeremiah 6:16

• Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. Isaiah 28:9

He had said to them: “This is the place of rest, let the weary rest; this is the place of repose.” But they would not listen.“ ◄ Isaiah 28:12 ►

 

[Deborah13]

 

[jocor]

The Ezekiel Scriptures quoted recently (above this post) for instance. "I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them."

Oh, my! That doesn't leave much room for me to do anything, does it? God will put His spirit in me. Wait a second -- I remember something one of my heroes, the energetic PETER said - it was on the first Pentecost... one moment, I'll fetch it for us:

He said (verse 14 of chapter 2 in the Acts of the Apostles): “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say..."

Then Peter, the little rock, started quoting a prophet who spoke about the day of Pentecost and what would happen. It was spoken a very long time ago. Joel (the insightful one) said:

​

BUT --- and here's the thing. Check out what Peter said in verse 16. He said, "This is that..."
THIS (what you see here) is THAT (what he, Joel, said there).

This is that. This is what was promised. This is the rest wherewith the weary shall rest.

Yes, the outpouring of the Spirit on Pentecost was what Joel prophesied about. However, Ezekiel took it a step further and told us what the indwelling Holy Spirit would cause NC believers to do; cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them.

In Matthew 11:28, Jesus spoke about this same subject. He too quoted something that had been said a long time ago, this time said originally by the Prophet Isaiah.

• Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28
• Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Matthew 11:29

Yeshua was not quoting Isaiah in the above verses. He was quoting Jer 6:16 in Matthew 11:29c; "You shall find rest for your souls."

Jer 6:16 Thus says Yahweh, Stand you in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and you shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.​

The "old path" and "good way" was obedience through faith that the patriarchs were to walk in. Israel strayed from that path which brought all that calamity upon them. However, WHILE living during OT times, they said, "We will not walk therein." This does not refer to resting in Yeshua because he is the "new and living way" (Hebrews 10:20) which was unavailable to the Jews of Jeremiah's day. Now, under the NC, we are to still live by faith with obedience as a fruit of that faith. The big difference is that now the law is to be written on our hearts and the indwelling Holy Spirit through Yeshua will cause us to obey it (unless we fight against the Spirit).

• And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. Isaiah 11:10
• For thus saith the Lord GOD, the Holy One of Israel; In returning and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength: and ye would not. Isaiah 30:15
• And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Isaiah 32:17
• And my people shall dwell in a peaceable habitation, and in sure dwellings, and in quiet resting places; Isaiah 32:18

• Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. Jeremiah 6:16

• Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. Isaiah 28:9

He had said to them: “This is the place of rest, let the weary rest; this is the place of repose.” But they would not listen.“ ◄ Isaiah 28:12 ►

In context, Isaiah 30:15 is similar to Jer 6:16. Yeshua's rest was not available to them at the time they "would not listen" and "refused to return and rest".

Isaiah 32:17-18 says nothing about resting in Yeshua or on the Sabbath day. It refers to the places where rest will be had.

As for Isaiah 28:12, That is a translation new to me. What version is that? Regardless of the translation, I believe it is referring to the rest we have in Yeshua which is not a physical rest after a week of hard labor, but a spiritual rest from sin, from seeking to be justified by works, from Satan's relentless attacks, etc.

 

[Kathi]

Romans 14:5-6 and Colossians 2:16 has given us as Christians the freedom to observe a special day or worship the Lord whenever we want.On Saturday,Sunday,Wednesday...etc.We as Christians are supposed to continually worship and serve the Lord.Not just on Sunday.

 

[jocor]

Romans 14:5-6 and Colossians 2:16 has given us as Christians the freedom to observe a special day or worship the Lord whenever we want.On Saturday,Sunday,Wednesday...etc.We as Christians are supposed to continually worship and serve the Lord.Not just on Sunday.

You misunderstand Paul's writing to the Romans (14:5-6). "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind." First, the word "alike" in the KJV is in italics because it is not in the Greek. There is nothing wrong with esteeming every day, after all, Yahweh made them all. If we choose to worship Him seven days a week, so be it and halleluyah! However, that does not change the fact that as we worship Him every day we must also rest from labor on one day, the Sabbath. It is a mistake to read the Sabbath into this verse. Nowhere is the Sabbath mentioned. Nor can we read any of Yahweh's annual sabbaths or feast days into this verse. There were many other "days" that the Jews highly esteemed besides the Sabbath and feasts. For example, most Jews at that time fasted twice a week (Luke 18:12 and Talmudic writings). The Jews also kept fast days throughout the year as mentioned in Zech 8:19. Then there was the Feast of Purim (Esther 9:28), and the Feast of Dedication or Hanukkah (John 10:22).

The Jewish converts would have probably continued esteeming these days whereas the Gentile converts would probably not, especially since they were not commanded by Yahweh to be kept. However, all men knew the Sabbath was commanded and so there was no question about its observance as seen in such verses as Acts 18:4 and Acts 13:42-44; 14:1.

As for Colossians 2:16, I addressed it here.

The only freedom you have from keeping Yahweh's Holy Sabbath day holy was given to you by man, not by Yahweh, Yeshua or any apostle.

 

[Sparkey]

Yes, the outpouring of the Spirit on Pentecost was what Joel prophesied about. However, Ezekiel took it a step further and told us what the indwelling Holy Spirit would cause NC believers to do; cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them.

I would not wish to challenge your extensive knowledge of Scripture but I'm guessing that when Jesus taught at the temple (when he was a boy) there were some whose inclination was to refute. Others marveled at the amount of truth that he brought. What do you think? Can the Spirit be interpreted by anything but the Spirit?

 

[jocor]

I would not wish to challenge your extensive knowledge of Scripture but I'm guessing that when Jesus taught at the temple (when he was a boy) there were some whose inclination was to refute. Others marveled at the amount of truth that he brought. What do you think? Can the Spirit be interpreted by anything but the Spirit?

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, but I believe the indwelling Holy Spirit is absolutely necessary to rightly understand the Word. However, if two people claim o have the Holy Spirit, but are coming up with two different interpretations of the same verse or passage, I believe the use of proper hermeneutics and exegesis are essential.

 

[Sparkey]

Hermeneutics and exegesis (as opposed to eisegesis) is one way. Going before the Lord and asking is another. Both are acceptable. Thanks for your thought. I think that is exactly what is meant by the passage that references "the more sure word of prophecy" - our Bible, the word of Truth.

 

[rthom7]

This is an interesting discussion, and while we are all allowed to our different beliefs, surely the Scriptures must be upheld as pure and the message trustworthy? For any bodies information, there are over 500 registered church denominations that keep the Seventh day as a Ceasing Day.

Ge 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested "shabbath" on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Some have already said this Hebrew word is not "Shabbath" well sorry, it is, the same Hebrew spelling as "Sabbath" but if you check Strong, it is listed as TWO Hebrew words, the verb and the noun. Why is this ?

In Hebrew the words with the same spellings in noun or verb forms are the same word, with the same meaning BUT the actions are different. A verb is an action not completed yet. A noun is an action that is completed.

For example

He went to love her with his love.

Is the word "love" here the same word, or do they have totally different meanings? Most people would say they are two different words and hence two different meanings....really ? Let's get back to our Hebrew thinking after all the Bible was written in Hebrew after all. The first bit, he went to love her, shows his loving is still incomplete, and with his love, show that loving he did is now finished and complete.

Another example

The farmer went to produce some produce.

Again the same word, with the same meaning, only the actions are different.

Now consider the Ceasing Bible verse....
Why does the verse record only ceasing was uncompleted....because the sun did not set yet, and we can't reference the ceasing as morning and evening the seventh day either, because the cycle would no longer be a week, it would have been 8 days long. So that's why its recorded as a ceasing incomplete.

Consider this example

Isa 28:24 Doth the plowman "charash" plow "charash" all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground?

In better English we could write it as

Does the plough plough all day to sow.

Notice the Strong's for both of these two Hebrew words are listed with ONE Strong's number 2790. Why the inconsistency in the Strong's? I have no idea...

That's why I stumbled across Jeff Benner's Ancient Hebrew research Center, and in his lexicon on Hebrew he lists such things correctly...the only scholar world wide who does, yet I stumbled across this problem myself way back in 2001.

I post this here because I believe it is true, Hebrew has to make sense...yet most Hebrew scholars will disagree so your welcome to make up your own mind on this....

In our Greek thinking we see a plough as a machine, and ploughing as something a machine does. Hebrew is very different, it sees everything in actions or functions....thus the plough is a ploughing thing, and the ploughing is what a plough does.

Hope this helps to throw a little different light unto an age old problem, how do we read Hebrew ?

Shalom

 

[JLB]

TOG said -

Doesn't it? The very verse you quote tells us to have corporate worship on the Sabbath. What do you think a "holy convocation" is?

1 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'The feasts of the Lord, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts. 3 'Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings. 4 'These are the feasts of the Lord, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times. Leviticus 23:1-4

Since all the dwellings were situated together, they didn't need to travel to remain in their dwellings, yet have a holy convocation.

They context in which this was given is the key.

Also the feasts were a time of gathering, the Sabbath was the time to remain in the dwelling, each man IN HIS PLACE.

Today's method of gathering on the Sabbath, completely violates the Sabbath as it was given in it's primary form and context.


This is what Jesus came to correct, the traditions of men.

The tradition of traveling to a location to gather for the Sabbath is a complete mockery and violation of God's word.

But it's no wonder, as Jesus said - Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

This is an interesting discussion, and while we are all allowed to our different beliefs, surely the Scriptures must be upheld as pure and the message trustworthy? For any bodies information, there are over 500 registered church denominations that keep the Seventh day as a Ceasing Day.

Ge 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested "shabbath" on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Some have already said this Hebrew word is not "Shabbath" well sorry, it is, the same Hebrew spelling as "Sabbath" but if you check Strong, it is listed as TWO Hebrew words, the verb and the noun. Why is this ?

In Hebrew the words with the same spellings in noun or verb forms are the same word, with the same meaning BUT the actions are different. A verb is an action not completed yet. A noun is an action that is completed.

For example

He went to love her with his love.

Is the word "love" here the same word, or do they have totally different meanings? Most people would say they are two different words and hence two different meanings....really ? Let's get back to our Hebrew thinking after all the Bible was written in Hebrew after all. The first bit, he went to love her, shows his loving is still incomplete, and with his love, show that loving he did is now finished and complete.

Another example

The farmer went to produce some produce.

Again the same word, with the same meaning, only the actions are different.

Now consider the Ceasing Bible verse....
Why does the verse record only ceasing was uncompleted....because the sun did not set yet, and we can't reference the ceasing as morning and evening the seventh day either, because the cycle would no longer be a week, it would have been 8 days long. So that's why its recorded as a ceasing incomplete.

Consider this example

Isa 28:24 Doth the plowman "charash" plow "charash" all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground?

In better English we could write it as

Does the plough plough all day to sow.

Notice the Strong's for both of these two Hebrew words are listed with ONE Strong's number 2790. Why the inconsistency in the Strong's? I have no idea...

That's why I stumbled across Jeff Benner's Ancient Hebrew research Center, and in his lexicon on Hebrew he lists such things correctly...the only scholar world wide who does, yet I stumbled across this problem myself way back in 2001.

I post this here because I believe it is true, Hebrew has to make sense...yet most Hebrew scholars will disagree so your welcome to make up your own mind on this....

In our Greek thinking we see a plough as a machine, and ploughing as something a machine does. Hebrew is very different, it sees everything in actions or functions....thus the plough is a ploughing thing, and the ploughing is what a plough does.

Hope this helps to throw a little different light unto an age old problem, how do we read Hebrew ?

Shalom

This is part of what I understand in my very immature approach to Hebrew.

Young's Literal Translation
Isa 28:24 The whole day plougheth the ploughman to sow? He openeth and harroweth his ground!

The closest in English would be " The whole day he is plowing the plowman to sow?"

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/isa28.pdf

Why is your scholar trying to translate the OT with the very old pictograph language that Job was probably written in at first?
imo, we have to trust the oldest manuscripts that are available, now many being the Dead Sea Scrolls. Personally I trust Jews to be able to read their own language.
Yeshayah 28:24
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
24 Doth the plowman plow kol hayom to sow? Doth he keep turning and breaking the clods of his adamah?

If we look at the Hebrew the two words are not written exactly the same even removing the vowels.
Reading right to left.
plow = yud chet resh shin
plowman = hey chet resh shin

The 'hey' tells me that this man is not just a man but a spiritual, righteous man.
As Abram became Abraham and Sari became Sarah.

 

[jasonc]

This is an interesting discussion, and while we are all allowed to our different beliefs, surely the Scriptures must be upheld as pure and the message trustworthy? For any bodies information, there are over 500 registered church denominations that keep the Seventh day as a Ceasing Day.

Ge 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested "shabbath" on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Some have already said this Hebrew word is not "Shabbath" well sorry, it is, the same Hebrew spelling as "Sabbath" but if you check Strong, it is listed as TWO Hebrew words, the verb and the noun. Why is this ?

In Hebrew the words with the same spellings in noun or verb forms are the same word, with the same meaning BUT the actions are different. A verb is an action not completed yet. A noun is an action that is completed.

For example

He went to love her with his love.

Is the word "love" here the same word, or do they have totally different meanings? Most people would say they are two different words and hence two different meanings....really ? Let's get back to our Hebrew thinking after all the Bible was written in Hebrew after all. The first bit, he went to love her, shows his loving is still incomplete, and with his love, show that loving he did is now finished and complete.

Another example

The farmer went to produce some produce.

Again the same word, with the same meaning, only the actions are different.

Now consider the Ceasing Bible verse....
Why does the verse record only ceasing was uncompleted....because the sun did not set yet, and we can't reference the ceasing as morning and evening the seventh day either, because the cycle would no longer be a week, it would have been 8 days long. So that's why its recorded as a ceasing incomplete.

Consider this example

Isa 28:24 Doth the plowman "charash" plow "charash" all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground?

In better English we could write it as

Does the plough plough all day to sow.

Notice the Strong's for both of these two Hebrew words are listed with ONE Strong's number 2790. Why the inconsistency in the Strong's? I have no idea...

That's why I stumbled across Jeff Benner's Ancient Hebrew research Center, and in his lexicon on Hebrew he lists such things correctly...the only scholar world wide who does, yet I stumbled across this problem myself way back in 2001.

I post this here because I believe it is true, Hebrew has to make sense...yet most Hebrew scholars will disagree so your welcome to make up your own mind on this....

In our Greek thinking we see a plough as a machine, and ploughing as something a machine does. Hebrew is very different, it sees everything in actions or functions....thus the plough is a ploughing thing, and the ploughing is what a plough does.

Hope this helps to throw a little different light unto an age old problem, how do we read Hebrew ?

Shalom

one can learn Hebrew(modern) and biblical Hebrew if one so choices just as is the case with koine greek and greek of today. I know a person fluent in koine greek.

 

[rthom7]

This is part of what I understand in my very immature approach to Hebrew.

Young's Literal Translation
Isa 28:24 The whole day plougheth the ploughman to sow? He openeth and harroweth his ground!

The closest in English would be " The whole day he is plowing the plowman to sow?"

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/isa28.pdf

Why is your scholar trying to translate the OT with the very old pictograph language that Job was probably written in at first?
imo, we have to trust the oldest manuscripts that are available, now many being the Dead Sea Scrolls. Personally I trust Jews to be able to read their own language.
Yeshayah 28:24
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
24 Doth the plowman plow kol hayom to sow? Doth he keep turning and breaking the clods of his adamah?

If we look at the Hebrew the two words are not written exactly the same even removing the vowels.
Reading right to left.
plow = yud chet resh shin
plowman = hey chet resh shin

The 'hey' tells me that this man is not just a man but a spiritual, righteous man.
As Abram became Abraham and Sari became Sarah.

Deborah, an interesting thought, perhaps the "hey" is a prefix... Hebrew words have prefixs and suffuxs added to the lexicon and so sometimes they can be of different letters when compared.

If your beginner, and I do not study Hebrew grammar, the Strong's lists Hebrew lexicon, so that is the best guide, though as I said Strong is inconsistent in numbering words with the same spelling as two words and sometimes they list them as one word.

But I could be wrong, and I would have to re-write some of my theories of faith, but its hard to talk to Hebrew scholars, they are too busy, speak over our heads, and are not teachers, able to reach down to those of child like faith.

Hope this helps
Shalom

 

[jasonc]

Deborah, an interesting thought, perhaps the "hey" is a prefix... Hebrew words have prefixs and suffuxs added to the lexicon and so sometimes they can be of different letters when compared.

If your beginner, and I do not study Hebrew grammar, the Strong's lists Hebrew lexicon, so that is the best guide, though as I said Strong is inconsistent in numbering words with the same spelling as two words and sometimes they list them as one word.

But I could be wrong, and I would have to re-write some of my theories of faith, but its hard to talk to Hebrew scholars, they are too busy, speak over our heads, and are not teachers, able to reach down to those of child like faith.

Hope this helps
Shalom

try, chabad. they are jews but they make it simple. I can post basic videos on the alphabet.

 

[rthom7]

one can learn Hebrew(modern) and biblical Hebrew if one so choices just as is the case with koine greek and greek of today. I know a person fluent in koine greek.

Jasonc, I do not learn Hebrew, speak of read grammar, I just read the words in the Bible only in the original language, Hebrew. Its not hard to do this....any child can....

http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-1094.htm This link tells you how the Bible should be studied, found in one passage across 2 chapters of Scripture....

http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-1095.htm This link explains how I do Bible studies

http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-1096.htm This links shows what scholars think of the method. We clash, is what he said....but when Jesus came to the scholars of his day he also clashed....I am home schooled, self taught by the Holy Spirit, and do not come with influences from learned schools. I also believe in sola scriptoria. Surely the Bible tells us how to read the Bible....

I would suggest reading Hebrew or Greek is not necessary...it is best to spend time with our Hebrew expert the Holy Spirit...


God bless your studies Jasonc....Shalom

 

[jasonc]

Jasonc, I do not learn Hebrew, speak of read grammar, I just read the words in the Bible only in the original language, Hebrew. Its not hard to do this....any child can....

http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-1094.htm This link tells you how the Bible should be studied, found in one passage across 2 chapters of Scripture....

http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-1095.htm This link explains how I do Bible studies

http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-1096.htm This links shows what scholars think of the method. We clash, is what he said....but when Jesus came to the scholars of his day he also clashed....I am home schooled, self taught by the Holy Spirit, and do not come with influences from learned schools. I also believe in sola scriptoria. Surely the Bible tells us how to read the Bible....

I would suggest reading Hebrew or Greek is not necessary...it is best to spend time with our Hebrew expert the Holy Spirit...


God bless your studies Jasonc....Shalom

I have seen men whom are great in the lord make simple and poor comments and usage about the torah.

ie I shall use your view of Hebrew. you say that the shabat is genesis 2 isn't continual and yet in the torah moses is told to model the shabat after the order of creation. on the seventh day rest! the shabat didn't mean to cease from all work only to take time to worship and also that did allow for these things:
1) to take a beast of burden in order to slay it. one had to carry or move that best a distance to get it slaughter and the levites were working when they offered it up
2) to circumcise a child is allowed and that is a greater command
3) what if you lost a beast? helping it was allowed. or what if your neighbor was too weak in health to gather manna on the day prior and you did and went to his home on the shabat to give it to him because you forgot the day before?is that work?

a rabbi would have to determine this stuff and then during the temple days prior to the diaspora a levite or judge.

 

[follower]

......, able to reach down to those of child like faith.

Yeshua says Abba does, and He always tells the truth. (but remember He doesn't teach anyone who doesn't love the truth more than anything , including life itself). it's a big price to pay, to be His, but it is necessary if someone wants to be His and to receive what He offers.

 

[jasonc]

gah, we are debating. sorry

 

[rthom7]

Yeshua says Abba does, and He always tells the truth. (but remember He doesn't teach anyone who doesn't love the truth more than anything , including life itself). it's a big price to pay, to be His, but it is necessary if someone wants to be His and to receive what He offers.

Thanks Follower, I wish we could all discuss things openly on a level playing field, including the scholars of my own denomination who disagree with me....lol...seems human pride, status and I am schooled and you are not, seems to make a PHD better than others...surely sola scriptoria is all the schooling we need....

Only problem I find is many of us make errors reading it in English, that's OK to a point, we trust our translators too much, and there are inconsistencies in our English rendering of the Hebrew...

Thanks for the encouragement...
God bless you and your studies too
Shalom

 

[follower]

Thanks Follower, I wish we could all discuss things openly on a level playing field, including the scholars of my own denomination who disagree with me....lol...seems human pride, status and I am schooled and you are not, seems to make a PHD better than others...surely sola scriptoria is all the schooling we need....

Only problem I find is many of us make errors reading it in English, that's OK to a point, we trust our translators too much, and there are inconsistencies in our English rendering of the Hebrew...

Thanks for the encouragement...
God bless you and your studies too
Shalom

i don't know most of what you are talking about, but if you find a forum or chatroom where we can discuss openly the truth, i will glad(OOPS) / join/ you there joyfully , Yhwh willing, in Yeshua HaMaschiak's Life and GraCE !