The Sabbath day and its origin.

[sourberry]

right, sure, you love perfectly? you don't offend others? the commands are for us to remind us what we are called to be. otherwise why have the bible for the Christian and the Pauline command to study thyself to be approved by god? that means we do it to please him because we are his children. what child doesn't want to please his parents?

I have been saved over 18 years and I have yet to find myself loving man perfectly. the more I read the word. the more I find im in need of the blood atonement. that is what the torah is supposed to do. bring us back to the cross!

It is not about you or me, Jason.

It is about our father Adam, and how he failed Sabbath. Adam was to obey Sabbath, in a perfect way, and failed, and later a commandment was issued to jews, to obey Sabbath. They failed too, for two reasons, because Adam failed, and because the commandment did not make any man perfect.

 

[jasonc]

It is not about you or me, Jason.

It is about our father Adam, and how he failed Sabbath. Adam was to obey Sabbath, in a perfect way, and failed, and later a commandment was issued to jews, to obey Sabbath. They failed too, for two reasons, because Adam failed, and because the commandment did not make any man perfect.

adam didn't do the shabat. there was recorded day of worship unto the book of exodus. im sure they had one orally but its not in the law. that is why I say that the shabat isn't for the gentile. you are free to do it or not to do in Christ.

otherwise you must also reconcile the other jewish feasts still commanded, the feasts of Passover etc.

 

[sourberry]

otherwise you must also reconcile the other jewish feasts still commanded, the feasts of Passover etc.

As a christian you do reconcile them. ALL of them.

The Passover night begings from the moment you died in Jesus Christ, and lasts for the rest of your life until Jesus sends his Angels.

 

[jasonc]

As a christian you do reconcile them. ALL of them.

The Passover night begings from the moment you died in Jesus Christ, and lasts for the rest of your life until Jesus sends his Angels.

that isn't what is being discussed and its still a day. figuratively yes but you claimed that adam failed the sabaath. he failed in one command which was not to eat of the fruit. that was his only torah. not the shabat. it wasn't even a command given.

 

[sourberry]

figuratively yes but you claimed that adam failed the sabaath.

Jesus came to bring you into Sabbath, because there is no life outside of Sabbath.

If you want, Sabbath is why Jesus came.

 

[reba]

2.4: No Trolling. Do not make an inflammatory remark just to get a response. Address issues not personalities. Respect where people are in their spiritual walk, and respect all others in general. Respect where others are in their spiritual walk, do not disrupt the flow of discussion or act in a way that affects others negatively including when debating doctrinal issues, in the defense of the Christian faith, and in offering unwelcome spiritual advice. ADMIN

You guys are in the Focus on the Scripture forum...
Drop the personal remarks.
Not necessarily directed at the last poster.

 

[jasonc]

Jesus came to bring you into Sabbath, because there is no life outside of Sabbath.

If you want, Sabbath is why Jesus came.

but that isn't what the op is about.the shabat in that case is called the rest. the shabat is the symbol of that yes, but that is why is said one doesn't have to do that or isn't judged for doing that. adam and eve didn't have that command. there was NO need at the time of creation for a shabat. everyday was one. now then if that is what you are saying. then well jews would say yes but also would say they weren't commanded after the fall to follow any day of rest/worship.

the idea of working six and resting seven is good.it allows us to remain focused on Christ and not to be greedy. to rest in the provision of the week we have. that is what that was for. notice the the mannah would last two day on the first shabat during moses day and for 40 years?

 

[sourberry]

but that isn't what the op is about.the shabat in that case is called the rest. the shabat is the symbol of that yes, but that is why is said one doesn't have to do that or isn't judged for doing that. adam and eve didn't have that command. there was NO need at the time of creation for a shabat. everyday was one. now then if that is what you are saying. then well jews would say yes but also would say they weren't commanded after the fall to follow any day of rest/worship.

the idea of working six and resting seven is good.it allows us to remain focused on Christ and not to be greedy. to rest in the provision of the week we have. that is what that was for. notice the the mannah would last two day on the first shabat during moses day and for 40 years?

On the 6th day of creation Adam and Eva were born. An on the following 7th day, our heavenly Father rested.

Take a deep breath...

Our Father did do anything after Adam and Eve were born.

(I repeat, because I think this is important)

Our Father did do anything after His children were born. One whole day. To spend with us.

With love.

 

[jasonc]

that isn't the shabat , he stopped creating. the jews don't teach that. I could see something like that but its not in the command form. the shabat is a day, it always was in the context. yes it has that fulfillment in Christ but your argument of they broke the shabat is weak. they had no command to worship god. they didn't need it. they had one command which was not to eat the fruit.

orally we don't know if the fall was one day or a year. time isn't given. the sages say one day. some Christians teach that. ramban says one day. we don't know. the fall could have been two years. the age of the earth per the Hebrew calendar is given in that manner, and the jews say that as well. we don't know when adam fell and how long it was from his creation to the first child abel and then cain.

 

[JLB]

Are you sure about that?

For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God. (I Cor. 7:19 ESV)

And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him (I John 2:3-4 ESV)

Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. (I John 3:21-22 ESV)
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. (I John 5:2-3 ESV)

Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. (Rev. 14:12 ESV)
​

Looks to me like God wants us to keep His commandments.

The TOG​

Good answer.

Could you list the commandments we are to keep.


Thanks


JLB

 

[sourberry]

Could you list the commandments we are to keep.

Honor your father and mother

 

[JLB]

TOG said -

Looks to me like God wants us to keep His commandments.

I agree with you.

However, I would like to know which commandments that we are required to keep, from your perspective.


JLB

 

[sourberry]

that isn't the shabat , he stopped creating.

Sabbath is to give up anything that distracts you or your mind from staying with our Father. Because there is nothing in this world that would be of any meaning or value compared to what Sabbath is for.

Jews received a commandment, in relation to their work. However Sabbath has never been about work. Sabbath is for you, to come and reunite with our Father, because our Father chosen Sabbath first, to stay with us.

Sabbath is about your heart. This is what Sabbath is, from the time of creation.

 

[jasonc]

Sabbath is to give up anything that distracts you or your mind from staying with our Father. Because there is nothing in this world that would be of any meaning or value compared to what Sabbath is for.

Jews received a commandment, in relation to their work. However Sabbath has never been about work. Sabbath is for you, to come and reunite with our Father, because our Father chosen Sabbath first, to stay with us.

Sabbath is about your heart. This is what Sabbath is, from the time of creation.

in part but that wasn't command. you are arguing that the man adam and eve failed to the shabat. yet paul said nothing about that. he mentions eve ate first and was deceived and a woman has no place teaching man. you are taking that to a point of over spiritualization
. jews teach that and still do the day of rest. the shabat you speak is for everyday. that is also biblical but not the op. the man tog is saying we can do the shabat on the day of Friday and its one day. he wants to. I say yes you can or choose not to. the shabat wasn't a command.

it would be hard pressed to say adam trusted jesus as well had no trial, no temptation until the fall. he by nature did things of the torah, but again a command was given to remind us of what we could have had and lost. I agree that by nature if adam sinned there would a day of rest per se. but the op is about the day of rest per the mosiaic law. which isn't the same, its a shadow.

if you said this

the man adam was by nature doing this of the torah which included the shabat by him being sinless and he would have adored the father

then I could agree but after the fall adam knowing the command of the shabat isn't in the bible nor midrash to my knowledge. that is what Is being talked about here. is the goy under that command ere the mosaic law and even after. the man balaam was a goy and he had to been taught about isreal and knew about the God of isreal as he was a prophet.

 

[JLB]

Sabbath is to give up anything that distracts you or your mind from staying with our Father. Because there is nothing in this world that would be of any meaning or value compared to what Sabbath is for.

Jews received a commandment, in relation to their work. However Sabbath has never been about work. Sabbath is for you, to come and reunite with our Father, because our Father chosen Sabbath first, to stay with us.

Sabbath is about your heart. This is what Sabbath is, from the time of creation.

That is a nice perspective.

The Sabbath is about a time of rest, that happens to be 1000 years long.

We will have a resurrected body that is free from sin and a nature that is at war with the spirit within us.

Rest from the striving of this war, within.

For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:17

and again -

You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. Hebrews 12:4


JLB

 

[sourberry]

in part but that wasn't command.

Commandments will be gone, because they will no longer be needed, and because they cannot make a man perfect.

Jews were given a day, as a gate, to remind what matters. The genuine gate is Jesus. Sabbath is not a day, it is an eternity, as I think

 

[jasonc]

Commandments will be gone, because they will no longer be needed, and because they cannot make a man perfect.

Jews were given a day, as a gate, to remind what matters. The genuine gate is Jesus. Sabbath is not a day, it is an eternity, as I think

but that isn't the topic. is it we aren't there yet. so we can pick the shabat or not. we also kind need a command to know if we are really his.

do you have kids? if so don't you tell them do this or that. if they do, it kind makes you see they love you. why is that Christians cant seem to connect the torah to that logic? we follow the commands because we love him. not to love him. because its in us and by that we can know we are his!

 

[sourberry]

but that isn't the topic. is it we aren't there yet.

Sabbath sets a jew free from "Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee" for a day. One day free from the routines of this world. One day, as if you were in the Kingdom of Heaven.

However Jesus says "Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on". Jesus no longer speaks of one day.

 

[sourberry]

do you have kids? if so don't you tell them do this or that. if they do, it kind makes you see they love you. why is that Christians cant seem to connect the torah to that logic? we follow the commands because we love him. not to love him. because its in us and by that we can know we are his!

The word is created that way, so that we learn how the Heavenly Kingdom works, as I think.

Do you ask your kids to worship you? The answer is not straight forward, because if you demand that kids listen to you, and not to somebody else, then you demand them to worship you.

You issue commandments to your children, however as your kids grow, you expect them to act on their own, without commanding "step left" and "step right". And as they become adults, you no longer command. They know your will, and you know they know your will.

***

What is the tree of knowing good and evil? Good - staying with Father. Evil - falling out. Adam and Eva were in Eden, and that was good, but they did not know that it was good, so the fruit of knowledge was tempting. So they now learn what it is to live in the cursed world. Right?

With love.

 

[brother Paul]

You said that there was no connection between the creation and the Sabbath. I showed you such a connection and you reply by saying it's not for Christians. You say that there's no command to have corporate worship on the Sabbath and that it was only started after the exile. I show you a command from long before the exile to have corporate worship, and you reply by saying it's not for Christians. In both cases you totally avoid addressing the actual issue, which is that you were wrong in both cases. You just changed the subject. I don't think I'll bother with you any more.

The TOG

Why did you say I said this when I never said this? Is it to convince others that what I said was incorrect? I said "lets go to Genesis 2...the word "shabbat" doe not occur there...the Lord "shaw-vath" that is He ceased and desisted from His work of Creation on this day. This passage says NOTHING about man or about anything people should do" and that.is correct.

Then I said "Finally I find most 7th day Adventists tie Genesis 2 to Exodus 12 which is an error for two reasons...one as I already pointed out is that Gen 2 merely reflects the ceasing from action on God's part...a particular action (for He never slumbers or sleeps and requires no rest)...nothing here about what man should do or does...the second error is in the assumption of days...the calendar from Genesis ceases in Exodus 12 and YHVH Himself commands Moses that the day He spoke to him was a new 1st of all days in a new 1st of all months" and the reasoning for there being a new first of days (even though I stand corrected, the word "new" is NOT om the Hebrew, you are correct there) follows there being a new 1st of months...the 1st day of the new 1st of months is now the 1st day...the point being we do not know what day of the week by the former calendar that month began but it is by that 1st day that the counting starts for the cycles of seven days.

Please do not misrepresent my words...if I am mistaken I am mature enough in the Spirit to admit it...however the point made is correct and sound...the Genesis 2 passage only says God stopped doing something He was doing (nothing about man or what man should do) and the word shabbat is nowhere mentioned...the next time we read about this question we are discussing is when the Lord tells Moses to demand a day of rest for Pharaoh's slave/Israelites (that they should rest one in seven) and this was for man's sake not as part of a religious ritual...

There was never any question

brother Paul