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The Sabbath is SUNDAY, ttg, TanNinety ...?

If the Jewish law of Tithing is forbidden in 2 Cor 9, why do Sabbatarians practice from "ceremonial law of Moses"?

I don't know about "forbidden", but this question should be asked to almost any expression of Christianity, not just sabbatarians.

If the Jewish Sabbath was abolished in Col 2:14-16, yet Sabbatarians keep the Sabbath, which itself is the only ceremonial law of the 10 commandments?

The sabbath was not abolished in Colossians, or any of the law. That passage says no such thing.

Why do you practice Tithing which is Prohibited: 2 Cor 9:7 forbid Eating Pork, which is Permitted: Mk 7:18-19 and keep the Sabbath which is Abolished: Col 2:14-16? Aren’t all three of these ceremonial laws?

Ask about tithing to any Christian. As far as pork, eating it is not permitted. And again, Colossians does not say anything in the law was abolished.

When Sabbatarians attempt to prove there is a distinction between the moral vs. ceremonial laws, the law of God vs. the Law of Moses, the 10 commandments vs. and the book of the law, and they shown countless bible passages that destroy any distinction Sabbatarians might dream up, will they at least be honest and admit they need to find some definitive way to create this false distinction that does not exist in the Bible and will try again tomorrow?

Ask this to most Christians. Anyway, they have contradicted themselves again. If the "law of God" is the same as the "law of Moses", why do they play the "law of Moses vs. law of Christ", unless they assume Christ is in some contest with the Father to see who will obey whose law?

Why do you refuse to accept that Col 2:16 contains the Old Testament pattern of referring to the Jewish holy says in a yearly, monthly, weekly sequence as in 1 Chronicles 23:31, 2 Chronicles 31:3, 2 Chronicles 8:13, 2 Chronicles 2:4, Nehemiah 10:33, Ezekiel 45:17, Hosea 2:11, Galatians 4:10?

Irrelevant to me...

If the plural "sabbaton" in Col 2:16 cannot refer to weekly Sabbath day, then why does plural "sabbaton" refer to the weekly Sabbath day in Matthew 28:1, Luke 4:16, Acts 16:13, Exodus 20:8 (in Septuagint) Leviticus 23:37-38 (in Septuagint)?

Irrelevant to me...

If in Col 2:16, the lack of the definite article before the word "Sabbath" in the Greek proves it cannot refer to the weekly Sabbath, then why does the weekly Sabbath lack the definite article in Matthew 28:1, John 5:9, 10, 16?
If Isa 66:23 proves the Sabbath will be in heaven, will the new moon festival also be there? "from new moon to new moon And from sabbath to sabbath".

Irrelevant to me...

If Hebrews 4 teaches we are to keep the weekly Sabbath, then why does the text say we are to enter a rest that none of the Jews at the time of Joshua in the promised land ever experienced in v 8?

Irrelevant to me...

If the Sabbath will endure forever because it is called "eternal" then won’t all the Jewish feasts and circumcision also endure because it is also called eternal in Gen 17:10-14 (same Hebrew word used)

Yes. Unless they assume that Yahweh does not mean what he says when he says it.
 
If the Sabbath will endure forever because it is called "holy" then won’t all the Jewish feasts also endure forever because they are also called holy?

Irrelevant to me...

If the Sabbath will endure forever because God hallowed it, then won’t Solomon's temple Ps 65:4; 1 Ki 9:3 and the vessels in the tabernacle Ex 40:9; Num 31:6; 1 Ki 8:4 also endure forever because God hallowed them too?

ITM...

If the Sabbath will endure forever because it was an eternal sign between God and his people, then shouldn’t we also still practice circumcision Gen 17:11 and Passover Ex 12:13 because it too is called an eternal sign between God and his people?

Does Yahweh mean what he says when he says it?

If it is only through the Sabbath that we can know that it is God who sanctifies us Ex 31:13, then what ever happened to faith in Christ sanctifying us? Any if we should therefore keep the Sabbath, then we must also build the tabernacle, for the Bible says through it we may know it is God who sanctifies us Ezel 37:28?

ITM...

If the fact that the Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament after Pentecost proves it is still in force, then does the mention of The Day of Pentecost Acts 2:1, The days of unleavened bread Acts 12:3; 20:6, Days of Purification: Acts 21:26, Animal Sacrifices: Acts 21:26, Circumcision: Acts 16:3, Temple worship: Acts 24:12 prove we must keep these too because they are also mentioned and must therefore also still be in force like the Sabbath?

ITM...

If Seventh-day Adventists want to deny that their official position is that worshipping on Sunday is the Mark of the Beast, do they realize that the "inspired" Ellen G. White, Uriah Smith, the Advent review and Leo Schreven (who conducts "Revelation seminars" today) all call it the mark of the beast?

ITM...

Christians can find 21 reasons why the first day of the week is significant to their faith as Christians in the New Testament. Can Sabbatarians find even one reason in the New Testament why the Sabbath has any meaning distinct to Christians?

21 made up, weak reasons, I don't doubt. Anyway, the reason the sabbath has distinct meaning to Christian believers is because Yahweh commanded it. That's reason enough.

It is a set apart day, it is a day to distinguish Yahweh apart from false statutes of worship (like Sun Day worship to pagan gods) and a day to distinguish us from the world. Several things.

Did you know that the Jewish Sabbath was significant to the Jews because it was a memoral of this present physical creation and their deliverance from the bondage of Egypt and that the first day of the week is a memorial of our new creation in Christ (2 Cor 5:7) and our deliverance from the bondage of sin. (Gal 4:4-5; Eph 1:7)

Exactly, my point. Manmade. Misapplication of scripture in favor of Sun Day, as none of these scriptures tie any of these things into Sun Day.

Did you know that regardless of whether the Sadducee’s or Pharisee’s method of calculating Pentecost was used the year Christ died, both would calculate Pentecost in Acts 2:1 as the first day of the week. Did you also know that the official position of the Seventh-day Adventist church was that Pentecost in Acts 2:1 fell on a Sunday that year?

Let's say it was. This is significant why? There is no significance. Sun Day paganism must be read into the text, as none of these scriptures place importance upon when Pentecost fell, even if it did fall on Sun Day.

Do you realize that the phrase, "that no collections be made when I come" in 1 Cor 16:2 proves the Christians were forbidden from saving up their offerings each week at home and demanded they put it into a common treasury every Sunday?

This scripture doesn't near prove that.

Did you know that 1 Cor 16:2 actually says, "EVERY 1st day" because the same Greek phrase is also found in Acts 13:14 "appointed elders in EVERY church". Did you know that you must give every 1st day of the week in to the church’s common treasury?

They didn't get the scriptural reference right. They meant Acts 14:23, not 13:14. Anyway, even with my limited knowledge of Greek, even I know that this is absurd. The Greek word kata does not mean "every". Apply that logic to every instance where the Greek word kata is used (all 475 times). And they said "phrase". Kata is a word used in several ways, not a "phrase". This is one of the worst arguments I've seen yet. This sight is very unprofessional and it sounds like a rant rather than some one really trying to teach the truth.

The Greek reads kata mia sabbaton.

Anyway, those collections were for the Jerusalem congregation. They weren't some statute ordained by Paul to justify Sun Day kirch service.

If Jesus died on Wednesday and rose on the Sabbath rather than a Friday - Sunday duration because you demand a full 72 hours in the grave, then why did Jesus count the Friday - Sunday duration as three days in Lk 13:32?

ITM...

If Jesus died on Wednesday and rose on the Sabbath rather than a Friday - Sunday duration because you demand a full 72 hours in the grave, why is exactly a 72 hour period called 4 days by Peter in Acts 10:3+9+23+24+30?

ITM...

If the fact that the 10 commandments were written in stone, that proves they will never be abolished, then where was Adam’s stone copy of the 10 commandments? Why did God not give Adam a stone copy once for all time? Why is it that Moses was first person in history to not only see the 10 commandments, but the first person to hold the stone tablets upon which the 10 commandments were written? Why do Seventh-day Adventists argue that the ten commandment law is no longer written in stone, but in the flesh of the human heart in 2 Corinthians 3:3? (Of course 2 Cor 3:3 says the 10 commandments were abolished and the new Covenant, the law of Christ is written on human hearts)

ITM except for the parenthetical expression at the end. 2 Corinthians 3:3 does not say the 10 commandments were abolished. That is their interpretation, not what the text says.

They also equate the law of Christ with the new covenant. This is not in scripture. Jeremiah 31:34 says he writes his law on our hearts. If the law of Moses is the law of God, why did he abolish his own law to substitute it with...his own law?

If only the 10 commandments we can "live", then why does Ezek 20:11 say this of the "ceremonial law", "I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live." (Ezek 20:11)?

ITM...

Well, that's all 80 (85) questions answered. At points they contradict themselves, give bad references, insert things into the scripture that it does not say, and make typos.

Not a very good sight you should direct one too, Solo. At least imo.
 
What the Messianic Nazarene Yisrael group believes according to a website of one of their Rabbis. Their beliefs are anti-Christian and dangerous, as they are teaching doctrines of the Judaizers that Paul spoke against. They also teach that the Messianic Jews are in error as are Christians. These beliefs are posted below from one of their websites at http://www.yourarmstoisrael.org/Article ... 12&type=12

The Church
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael does not recognize the church as a separate entity apart from the covenant people of Israel. According to Messianic Nazarene Yisrael, there is no such thing as "the church", rather the ekklessia of New Covenant Israel consists of saved Jews, saved Israelites (remnant of the 10 tribes), along with non-Israelites, all making up Yahshua’s ekklessia. The ekklessia is one both now and forever.

Gentile Believers
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that most of the non-Jewish followers of Yahshua are Ephraimites, those who were scattered amongst the gentile nations starting in 721 BCE. They were the Lo Ami of Hosea one, who were not a people, but have now been restored as individuals as promised by the prophets, through Israel’s Messiah. These latter day "gentiles", are washed and then awakened to their Israelite heritage by Messiah Yahshua, in fulfillment of many promises. Their recognition of their identity as the seed of Ephraim and their union with Jewish Israel, is a necessity for all Israel to be saved and for the Kingdom to be restored to Israel.

Salvation
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael views the gift of salvation as a free gift for whosoever will. Having said that Messianic Nazarene Yisrael does in fact teach that Ephraim’s seed has fulfilled the promise of physical multiplicity given to the patriarchs and views the re-gathering of the latter day "gentiles", as consisting mostly of lost Israelites. View Yahshua’s blood as the power of salvation for every human being, including the 12 tribes scattered worldwide. Salvation is to Jew, the lost Israelite individual and non-Israelite.

Commonwealth of Israel
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that all in the Commonwealth of Israel purchased by Yahshua’s blood are Israelites, with full privileges of citizenship. Believes that the believer’s identity as Israel supercedes any identity as a Jew, a "gentile", male, female, bond, free etc. All members of the body are Israelites, either through physical birth (two houses) or engrafting (Gerim), thus producing one holy covenant nation called New Covenant Israel, or the body of Yahshua. These Israelites are at the same time both physical and spiritual Israelites, since all disciples are physical beings that have received the Ruach Hakodesh. All Israelites not only can carry the obligations of Torah, but are required to do so, making no differential between a Jewish Israelite believer and a non Jewish Israelite believer.

Spiritual vs. Physical Israel
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that there are not two brides of Messiah Yahshua, but in fact just one. This bride is called Israel and is made up of those rescued from the nations among all 12 tribes. Thus the House of Judah and the House of Israel along with non-Israelites, are all Israel. Since all these believers regardless of background are physical and since in order to be accepted and pleasing to the Father all must be spiritually aware or regenerated by the Spirit, this single nation is both and at the same time both physical and spiritual Israel. Since this is the case, there is no need for a separate entity claiming to be spiritual Israel i.e. "the church", thus eliminating the competition and the 2000-year-old battle royal, over which entity really is the true Israel.

Racial Distinctions
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that when the members of the body realize that they have all been made citizens of the Commonwealth of the Israel of Yahweh, that the racial origin of the individual loses its importance. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael sees all believers as redeemed Israelites, who have been rescued from the nations and does not focus in on the lesser titles of Jew, gentile, male and female, bond, or free. As Abraham’s seed, this nation is a royal priesthood and a peculiar nation as Israel. Thus the focus becomes restoring the Kingdom to all Israel, rather than breaching the gap between two separate entities known fallaciously as physical and spiritual Israel. This concept of physical and spiritual Israel, is a work of the flesh, a figment of the religious imagination, found nowhere in scripture. All brethren are fellow Israelites, regardless of their family descent!

Torah Observance
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael views most of the saved non-Jews as the promised seed of Ephraim, that in the latter days would make up the fullness or the majority of non Jews in the world. Therefore when Yahshua rescues a non-Jewish believer from the nations, he or she not only has the privilege of Torah observance, but a divine mandate as well. Since Messianic Nazarene Yisrael views all believers as New Covenant Israel (not replacing first covenant Israel, but merely a renewed invigorated people of Israel), all Israelites are encouraged to join Jewish brethren in keeping Torah, thus removing the wall erected around it by traditional Judaism. Since Ephraimites trace their ancestry to Jacob/Israel, through Joseph Jacob’s son, they rightly believe that their forefathers were at the foot of Mt. Sinai receiving Torah, just as much as the forefathers of Jewish Israel. Therefore all Israel’s children enjoy the blessings of Torah obedience, making no distinction between Torah observance for Jews and non-Jews.

The Olive Tree
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that the olive tree is the two houses of Israel, while the natural OLIVE branches are Jewish and the wild OLIVE branches are non-Jewish Israelites or Ephraimites. Uses Jeremiah the prophet’s definition to define the olive tree of Israel.

The Restoration of the Kingdom to Israel
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that the restorations has definitely not been fulfilled due to several key issues. First the disciples asked Yahshua when the event would take place, 586 years after the reunion supposedly took place! Had the restoration been a past event, the disciples would not have asked Messiah Yahshua the question in a still future setting. Thus it is clear that the New Covenant disciples of Yahshua, still looked forward to the reunification of both houses. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that according to Ezekial 37, the reunion will be highlighted by a full return to the land of Israel, not a partial ones referenced by Messianic Judaism! Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that when this full return takes place, that there will be sinless perfection with no idolatry found in either stick or either house. Obviously, not only is the full nation not back in the land, both houses have massive perversions in their belief systems, such as Ephraim’s celebration of pagan holy days and Sunday Sabbath and Judah’s love of Babylonian wisdom, writings and practices. According to the same Ezekial 37 passages, one King will rule over both houses. Unsaved Jewish Israel is still in the majority and still is stiff-necked and still refuses to let Yahshua, Yahweh’s blessed Son rule over their affairs. Therefore Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that the fullness of this scripturally promised reunion, has never fully come to pass.

Replacement Theology
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that the body of New Covenant Israel is both physical and spiritual, thus eliminating the theological straw man built by religion called the church. Once one of the two competing brides is recognized as a demonic manmade straw man, then we are left with one bride known as the Commonwealth of Israel, where there are no distinctions in race or nationality. Thus while loathing replacement theology as well, Messianic Nazarene Yisrael has been given the correct theological understanding and insight, to eliminate the theological straw man.

Shabbat and Moadim
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael is also committed to celebrate the 7th day Shabbat, Rosh Chodesh (New Moons), as well as the Feasts of Yahweh. All those who do so are viewed as Israelites, not as saved "gentiles."

The Ten Tribes
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that the nation of Israel remains blind and that blindness is found in two separate houses, as Yahshua Himself found when both houses stumbled over His Messiahship. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that scripture is clear that Ephraim’s (10 tribes) punishment, was for them to be swallowed up and become one flesh with the pagan nations of the world, outside the land of Israel. Thus in order to find them, Yahshua has been saving the gentile nations, looking for these individual lost sheep, who make up the nation of the House of Israel. To locate them you would have to preach the gospel to the whole wide world of non-Jewish nations. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael does not believe that scriptures ever promised, that the 10 tribes would be swallowed by Jewish/Israel, but rather would be scattered and hidden in the gentile pagan nations, only to be rescued by Messiah, in the last days of this age.

Tabernacle of David
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that the Tabernacle Of David by historical and biblical definition must resemble and be an exact replica of the people of Israel, over which David ruled and over which David established his tabernacle. By definition then, Messianic Nazarene Yisrael is actively engaged in restoring the broken relationship between Israel’s two houses or two chosen families, that will lead to the Kingdom being restored to Israel. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that restoration amongst brethren is biblical and believes that restoring New Covenant Israel to "the church" is both unscriptural and fictional, especially in light of the so-called "church’s" commitment to anti-Nomianism.

Ordination of Leaders
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael ordains and recognizes that a messianic rabbi can be produced from either House of Israel. Therefore a non-Jewish man, can also be called to be a rabbi in a messianic congregation, since he is most likely still a physical Israelite, from the non-Jewish side of the Israelite family, or becomes an Israelite as a Ger.

Membership
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael views it membership as open and full to anyone who is blood washed. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that associate memberships are discriminatory and heretical. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael’s position is that if one is good enough for Yahshua’s assembly, they ought to be good enough to be full members in any organization claiming to represent Him.

Messianic Nazarene Yisrael’s congregations and ministries, tend to be more open to its use. Though pronunciations may vary from person to person, there is a general consensus that since Yahweh is restoring all things in and about Israel, that it must also be His desire to restore His eternal redemptive, memorial covenant Name. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes in most part, that any attempt to restore all things spoken of by Israel’s prophets to Israel’s people, without restoring the Father’s eternal memorial everlasting Name, would leave the movement short of its goals and vision. Usage of the sacred Name is prevalent throughout Messianic Nazarene Yisrael and those who do not use it, are not offended by those who do.

Sacred Name
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael’s congregations and ministries, tend to be more open to its use. Though pronunciations may vary from person to person, there is a general consensus that since Yahweh is restoring all things in and about Israel, that it must also be His desire to restore His eternal redemptive, memorial covenant Name. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes in most part, that any attempt to restore all things spoken of by Israel’s prophets to Israel’s people, without restoring the Father’s eternal memorial everlasting Name, would leave the movement short of its goals and vision. Usage of the sacred Name is prevalent throughout Messianic Nazarene Yisrael and those who do not use it, are not offended by those who do.

Charismatic Sign Gifts
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael has a mixture of those who do and those who do not believe in the sign gifts and in their perpetuity. Attitudes and doctrines vary.

Conversions
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael views all conversions with skepticism and disdain. To Messianic Nazarene Yisraelites, all believers became physical-Spirit filled Israelites, regardless of racial origin. Thus no conversion is necessary, since an Israelite need not be adopted into the nation of Israel, that according to scripture, he or she already belongs to either by birth or by grafting. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael believes that Yahshua allowed us all to become Israel, so as to avoid the very manmade decisions and rulings handed down by man made and man generated committees, as to who is and who is not a Jew. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael views the entire conversion process of Ephraimites and non-Israelites to Messianic Judaism as a sad scenario, played out by those who do not realize that Israel has two chosen families. As such no conversion is necessary, since a conversion merely transfers a believer from one side of the family, to another, not from one faith to another. Furthermore Messianic Nazarene Yisrael views conversions as a heretical practice, designed to cheapen Yahweh’s grace who accepts an individual as they are, where they are and places them into Israel’s Commonwealth Himself. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael therefore views conversions as dangerous and as a direct attack against divine sovereignty.

Circumcision or Brit Milah
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael views all members of the Olive Tree as Born Again Israelites. Therefore, all believing parents should circumcise their sons on the 8th day following birth, in accord with the covenant of Abraham as given in Genesis 17. Since Torah commands the 8th day circumcision, it is up to the believing parents to oversee a Biblical Brit Milah for an infant son. The parents are accountable to Yahweh to properly perform this upon their son on the 8th day.

Messianic Nazarene Yisrael does not accept hospital circumcision at birth as being a legitimate fulfillment of the requirement for parents to perform the Brit Milah on Messianic Nazarene Yisraelite sons. All Messianic Nazarene Yisraelite families that produce a newborn son, should have the Brit Milah performed on the 8th day in accord with the command of Torah in Genesis 17. However, we do recognize that circumcision among the non Jewish nations, has become commonplace in the 20th century. We feel this has been the Guidance of Ruach Hakodesh in preparing the remnant from the fullness of the nations (Ephraim), to recognize their position in Torah as descendants of Israel. This being the case, we give gospel grace to those males who were already circumcised in the hospital and do not require a recircumcision or a Hatafas Dahm (drawing of blood from the spot of past hospital circumcision on adults) ceremony upon them.

As for uncircumcised men who have come into a realization of their Israelite heritage through the revelation of the Ruach Hakodesh, it would be Scriptural for an adult male to have himself circumcised on the 8th day, following the revelation of his heritage. This would apply to any believer who, though saved, had not been cognizant of Israelite blood or their place in Israel's Two Houses. We have the example of Timothy who was a descendant of the Tribe of Judah on his mother's side who had himself circumcised later in life. An entire generation of Israel -- those born in the wilderness -- remained uncircumcised until later in life. But when it was time to enter into the Promised Land, they all became circumcised (Joshua 5:2-8). The Messianic Nazarene Yisrael Movement is now moving into our spiritual Promised Land, so it is now time for all our adult men to be in proper circumcision, so as to partake of the Passover (Master's) Supper Messianic Nazarene Yisrael does not believe that the act of circumcision has any effect upon the process of salvation. Circumcision is a requirement for those descended from Abraham, but lack of circumcision does not keep one from being saved. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael views the warnings and forbidding of Rav Shaul (Paul) against circumcision, not as the forbidding of the token of the Abrahamic Covenant, but rather as a forbidding for Ephraimites and non-Israelites to become part of "the circumcision", or to convert or become Jews. Thus the many verses forbidding circumcision (Galatians), are a warning not to equate conversion to Judaism (becoming Jewish or joining the circumcision), as having any bearing on Salvation. All male offspring of believing parents must be circumcised as Abraham's seed, and all male adults should seriously consider Brit Milah for the 8th day after their recognition of their true Israelite heritage.

Bar & Bat Mitzvah
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael views these practices as traditional additions to Judaism and as strictly optional and not binding on Israelites in any way.

Halachah (The Way to Walk)
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael views traditional rabbinical halachah as dangerous in many instances and views Yahshua alone as "The Way", therefore He alone is halachah. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael views traditional rabbinical rulings with interest, to be used for wisdom and insight but not for practical doctrine and living.

Kashrut-Kosher Keeping
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael in general follows all of biblical kashrut such as the avoidance of pigs and shellfish. Most segments do not follow the halachic laws of separation between milk and dairy products and different pots and pans, though a few do.

Reverse Replacement Theology
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael does not engage in any kind of replacement theology, including steering clear of reverse replacement theology. By proclaiming that two physical Houses of Israel are being restored through the Messiah Yahshua, neither house is ignored, or replaced by one another, nor by an outside manmade third party entity called "the church". The "church", is not used to replace either house in Yahweh’s eternal plans and thus all three parties that make up New Covenant Israel thrive, survive and dwell together as brethren in greater Israel. Judah, Ephraim and Gerim (strangers), all live in unity as Spirit filled physical beings, united by Yahshua’s cords of love, in a single entity known as His body, the ekklessia, or the Commonwealth of Israel. All forms of replacement theology are utterly rejected as anti-Semitic, including reverse replacement theology, as is often practiced in other forms of Messianism.

Yahshua’s Deity
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael requires that any congregation or Messianic Nazarene Yisraelite leader, must make a full and compete confession of Yahshua’s deity, prior to acceptance and recognition in Messianic Nazarene Yisrael. Several leaders and ministries have been refused membership, due to their unscriptural position regarding Yahshua’s deity. Yahshua’s deity is a main bedrock of the gospel, which Messianic Nazarene Yisrael cannot compromise. Messianic Nazarene Yisrael seeks to weed out those holding this view, before infiltration of this hideous doctrine into its ranks.

Women in Ministry
Messianic Nazarene Yisrael does encourage and actively allow women to function as five fold ministers.
 
Solo said:
What the Messianic Nazarene Yisrael group believes according to a website of one of their Rabbis. Their beliefs are anti-Christian and dangerous, as they are teaching doctrines of the Judaizers that Paul spoke against. They also teach that the Messianic Jews are in error as are Christians. These beliefs are posted below from one of their websites at http://www.yourarmstoisrael.org/Article ... 12&type=12

I don't exactly realize what you are seeking to accomplish, Solo. Of course, anyone who disagrees with mainstream Christianity is going to be "dangerous" for the simple fact that they disagree with mainstream Christianity...
 
wavy said:
Solo said:
What the Messianic Nazarene Yisrael group believes according to a website of one of their Rabbis. Their beliefs are anti-Christian and dangerous, as they are teaching doctrines of the Judaizers that Paul spoke against. They also teach that the Messianic Jews are in error as are Christians. These beliefs are posted below from one of their websites at http://www.yourarmstoisrael.org/Article ... 12&type=12

I don't exactly realize what you are seeking to accomplish, Solo. Of course, anyone who disagrees with mainstream Christianity is going to be "dangerous" for the simple fact that they disagree with mainstream Christianity...
Unveiling False Doctrines and False Teachers is what is being accomplished. Some will see and others will not. I have done my job when this has been done, and those who recognize the truth can pray for those who are entrapped.

The Terms of Service and the Statement of Faith of the 123 Christian Forum are agreed upon by all who register. Please do not promote anything that will violate these documents.
 
wavy said:
Solo said:
The Terms of Service and the Statement of Faith of the 123 Christian Forum are agreed upon by all who register. Please do not promote anything that will violate these documents.

I haven't promoted anything. As the TOS say I can do, I discuss them. I thought I could do that without being subject to personal ridicule.
Keep in mind that the TOS states in Rule 1 that, "1 - This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act."

I have outlined your beliefs and they are contrary to the basic tenets of Christianity. You can debate them, but you will not be allowed to promote your beliefs as being scripturally above those of the basic tenets of Christianity. As far as personnally ridiculing you, I have done no such thing. I am showing your teachings to be outside of the mainline Christian tenets of faith so that those becoming believers and the new believers are not swayed by the doctrines that are false.

How many individuals throughout the world have become saved by the Word of God from those evangelists, missionaries, pastors, teachers from the Church?
How many individuals throughout the world have become saved by the teachings of the Messianic Nazarene Yisrael group?
I have never heard of the Messianic Nazarene Yisrael group until you started posting.
 
I repeat my sentiment from a recent post in answer to you:

Actually, the truth is "Yahshua the Nazarene" (Matthew 26:71) through his followers (Nazarenes) spread the gospel. Through him we have access to his Word, and I do believe Christians play a part in that.

However, this doesn't mean their doctrines are correct, and I don't believe so. Too bad that, while indeed historically and biblically the first followers of Messiah indentified themselves as Nazarenes after the Messiah himself, gentile, paganized, Hellenized forms of belief took over and became 100% anti-Semitic and even some of the "church fathers" called the Nazarenes heretics.

Yahweh will reverse this, however:

Jeremiah 16:19
O יהוה, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Jeremiah 16:20
Shall a man make elohim unto himself, and they are no elohim?
Jeremiah 16:21
Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know mine hand [Christ] and my might [Holy Spirit]; and they shall know that my name is יהוה.
 
And if you believe you are defending truth, then I have nothing to do with that, but I don't particularly appreciate you making it seem as if I have broken the TOS and am blatanly attacking Christianity.

Actually, you started off on this hostile attitude when I was asking another Christian mere questions.

I will not argue with you. Sorry if you feel offended.
 
wavy said:
And if you believe you are defending truth, then I have nothing to do with that, but I don't particularly appreciate you making it seem as if I have broken the TOS and am blatanly attacking Christianity.

Actually, you started off on this hostile attitude when I was asking another Christian mere questions.

I will not argue with you. Sorry if you feel offended.
All false doctrines and false teachings offend me. Why don't they offend you?

I do not expect you to agree with the basic tenets of Christianity after reading up on your beliefs, but the promotion of your faith against Christianity by interpreting the Word of God in a manner like the Judaizers will not be tolerated on this forum. If you cannot agree with this forum's statement of faith and the rule that states that any posting against the basic tenets of the Christian faith are found as being hostile, will find you in violation of the TOS.
 
Solo said:
wavy said:
And if you believe you are defending truth, then I have nothing to do with that, but I don't particularly appreciate you making it seem as if I have broken the TOS and am blatanly attacking Christianity.

Actually, you started off on this hostile attitude when I was asking another Christian mere questions.

I will not argue with you. Sorry if you feel offended.
All false doctrines and false teachings offend me. Why don't they offend you?

I do not expect you to agree with the basic tenets of Christianity after reading up on your beliefs, but the promotion of your faith against Christianity by interpreting the Word of God in a manner like the Judaizers will not be tolerated on this forum. If you cannot agree with this forum's statement of faith and the rule that states that any posting against the basic tenets of the Christian faith are found as being hostile, will find you in violation of the TOS.

Y'know . . .in my dumbness I never realized that you were disagreeing with the basic tenets of Christianity, wavy. Now, thanks to Uncle Solo, I realize that you were. You're nothing but a troublemaker. So shame on you, wavy!

Hey, Solo . . .lighten up man! :D
;-)
 
SputnikBoy said:
Hey, Solo . . .lighten up man! :D ;-)

God doesn't want me to lighten up on false teachings, SputnikBoy! Should I follow him or you?

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7:15

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. Matthew 24:11

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Matthew 24:23-27

6 And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus: 7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God. 8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith. 9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, 10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? Acts 13:6-10

10 As the truth of Christ is in me, no man F31 shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia. 11 Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth. 12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11:10-15

2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. 3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: 4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. Galatians 2:2-5

1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2 Peter 2:1-2

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1
 
I know that wavy can take care of himself, Solo, but I really DO feel that you've made a mountain out of a molehill here ...not to mention the fact that you've attempted to discredit wavy as a professed Christian. I think it's rather a sad state of affairs when wavy (or anyone else) can't have a belief unless it tallies with your own. Are you afraid of being corrupted? If you don't agree with wavy then just tell him you don't agree while backing it up with scripture. There's no need to give him the third degree and question his Christianity on the forum. I don't agree with you quite often but I don't doubt that you're a Christian.
 
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