the sabbath

[Bard of Angels]

both are accurate as GOD said the sun and the stars were for seasons and times.

So does that mean that I may keep the Sabbath on Saturday as I know it?

 

[jasonc]

The commandment in Exodus doesn't say anything about the Sabbath being a designated day of worship. What it says is that it is a day of rest...and maybe more importantly, a day to let other people rest.
I seem to recall having read somewhere that the ancient Israelites didn't actually start the practice of gathering to worship on that day till after the return from Babylon.
If anyone knows anything more about this, I'd be glad to hear it.

duetermony I believe has more to say and also TOG would know since he recently debated the command of what work was.

 

[Deborah13]

I just looked up the Hebrew Calendar on Wikipedia, and I discovered something interesting. While the original (in Biblical times) calendar was based on the sighting of the first sliver of the new moon, and the beginning of the year was based on the ripeness of the barley crop, today's Hebrew calendar is based on mathematical calculations, as is our Gregorian solar calendar. To keep the months in the same season, leap months are inserted based on a 19 year series of leap years vs. normal years. According to Wikipedia, the average 19 year cycle is 6939d 16h 33m 031⁄3s, whereas 19 average solar years are 6939d 14h 26m 15s. Over a period of 19 years, the difference is only 2h 6m 112⁄3 s.

The TOG​

The karaite site has an article about this and the date of Passover being timed with the barley harvest. The omar of barley for the firstfruits could not be taken until the barley was ready to harvest.
http://www.karaite-korner.org/holiday_dates.shtml

There is no wrong day to worship God, but there is a right day - the day He told us to worship. Nothing in the Bible says we can't worship on Sunday or any other day of the week. If people want to worship on Sundays, Wednesdays or any other day of the week, then that's fine. But the Bible does tell us that we are supposed to rest and worship on the Sabbath.

The TOG​

While I don't think the Sabbath was ever changed from the 7th day, I don't see that in the new covenant that there is a right day.
So if you fellowship and rest on the 7th day and someone else fellowships and rests on the 1st day, I see that there is this freedom in the new covenant for both.

 

[TOG]

The commandment in Exodus doesn't say anything about the Sabbath being a designated day of worship. What it says is that it is a day of rest...and maybe more importantly, a day to let other people rest.

Exodus isn't the only place that mentions that Sabbath.

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. (Lev. 23:3 ESV)​

A convocation is a meeting. A holy convocation is a meeting for worship.

I seem to recall having read somewhere that the ancient Israelites didn't actually start the practice of gathering to worship on that day till after the return from Babylon.
If anyone knows anything more about this, I'd be glad to hear it.

The Babylonian captivity started in the late 7th century BC. The kings mentioned in Isaiah put his ministry from the middle to the late 8th century, well before the exile.

Bring no more vain offerings;
incense is an abomination to me.
New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—
I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. (Isaiah 1:13 ESV)​

Convocations, or meetings, were being held on the Sabbath in Isaiah's day, well before the exile to Babylon. The verse above is often used to show that we should not keep the Sabbath, but that's not what it says. It says we shouldn't mix the holy things of God, including the Sabbath, with iniquity.

The TOG​

 

[Bard of Angels]

I always thought I could keep the Sabbath by making it a day of rest for myself and for my family. For this one day, there would be no chores, no nagging my husband with "honeydo" stuff...and no work for me that involved anything more than slapping cold cuts on bread and pouring out drinks for everyone...
However, I only worship God on days that end in "y"...

 

[Bard of Angels]

So, a "holy convocation"...couldn't that be a meeting in my house?
If I start worrying about keeping every holy convocation mentioned, does that mean I have to take my boys to Jerusalem three times a year?
Just wondering...

 

[Bard of Angels]

Exodus isn't the only place that mentions that Sabbath.

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. (Lev. 23:3 ESV)​

A convocation is a meeting. A holy convocation is a meeting for worship.



The Babylonian captivity started in the late 7th century BC. The kings mentioned in Isaiah put his ministry from the middle to the late 8th century, well before the exile.

Bring no more vain offerings;
incense is an abomination to me.
New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—
I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. (Isaiah 1:13 ESV)​

Convocations, or meetings, were being held on the Sabbath in Isaiah's day, well before the exile to Babylon. The verse above is often used to show that we should not keep the Sabbath, but that's not what it says. It says we shouldn't mix the holy things of God, including the Sabbath, with iniquity.

The TOG​

So, where ever I read that....and I honestly don't remember...it was misinformation. Thank you for clearing that up for me.

 

[TOG]

So, a "holy convocation"...couldn't that be a meeting in my house?

It doesn't say where the holy convocation was to be held. The first Christians met in homes, as can be seen by the fact that Paul ends many of his epistles by greeting sending greetings to certain people "and the church in their house". The Bible doesn't specify a minimum number of people that are required to attend the convocation. Jesus said that wherever 2 or 3 are gathered together in his name, there he would be with them. So If you gather with others in your family for worship in your home on the Sabbath, then you are fulfilling the commandment to hold a holy convocation.

If I start worrying about keeping every holy convocation mentioned, does that mean I have to take my boys to Jerusalem three times a year?
Just wondering...

Would you be able to go to Jerusalem 3 times a year? I don't know where you live, but chances are it's somewhere outside of Israel. Most people living outside of Israel are not able to travel regularly to Israel, simply because it would cost too much. The commandment to come up to Jerusalem 3 times a year has always been interpreted as applying to everyone who is able to come. Even at a time when all Israelites lived in the land of Israel, allowances were made for the sick and elderly who couldn't travel. If you are unable to travel to Jerusalem 3 times a year, then don't worry about it. God will not hold it against you if you don't do something that you are unable to do. But if you can afford it and are able to go, then I would encourage you to do so. Everyone I know who has gone to Israel at any time of year has said that God blessed them there. If you go at the time God tells us to go, I'm sure He would bless you in a very special way.

The TOG​

 

[Bard of Angels]

It doesn't say where the holy convocation was to be held. The first Christians met in homes, as can be seen by the fact that Paul ends many of his epistles by greeting sending greetings to certain people "and the church in their house". The Bible doesn't specify a minimum number of people that are required to attend the convocation. Jesus said that wherever 2 or 3 are gathered together in his name, there he would be with them. So If you gather with others in your family for worship in your home on the Sabbath, then you are fulfilling the commandment to hold a holy convocation.



Would you be able to go to Jerusalem 3 times a year? I don't know where you live, but chances are it's somewhere outside of Israel. Most people living outside of Israel are not able to travel regularly to Israel, simply because it would cost too much. The commandment to come up to Jerusalem 3 times a year has always been interpreted as applying to everyone who is able to come. Even at a time when all Israelites lived in the land of Israel, allowances were made for the sick and elderly who couldn't travel. If you are unable to travel to Jerusalem 3 times a year, then don't worry about it. God will not hold it against you if you don't do something that you are unable to do. But if you can afford it and are able to go, then I would encourage you to do so. Everyone I know who has gone to Israel at any time of year has said that God blessed them there. If you go at the time God tells us to go, I'm sure He would bless you in a very special way.

The TOG​

I am a widow living in the USA, in the deep south. Yes, going to Jerusalem would be prohibitively expensive for me.
Anyway, aren't we under a new covenant, now? Do all those laws apply to Gentiles...or is it just the ten commandments...or what.

 

[Bard of Angels]

Doesn't Jeremiah tell us that the new covenant will not be according to the old one?
In what ways do you suppose it is different?

 

[TOG]

Doesn't Jeremiah tell us that the new covenant will not be according to the old one?
In what ways do you suppose it is different?

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. (Jer. 31:33 ESV)

And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. (II Cor. 3:3 ESV)
​

Under the Sinai covenant, the law was written on tablets of stone, but under the New Covenant, it is written on our hearts. But it's still the same law.

The TOG​

 

[Bard of Angels]

That is what I also believe, TOG

 

[follower]

Doesn't Jeremiah tell us that the new covenant will not be according to the old one?
In what ways do you suppose it is different?

I am a widow living in the USA, in the deep south. Yes, going to Jerusalem would be prohibitively expensive for me.
Anyway, aren't we under a new covenant, now? Do all those laws apply to Gentiles...or is it just the ten commandments...or what.

if i remember correctly(i.e. take a few weeks to seek this out), women(and maybe children) won't be required to travel to Yerusalem, only men (not sure if all of them, or a certain number). for anyone who is required, Yhvh provides the way for them.

 

[Classik]

I think it is necessary maybe for all Christians to travel to Israel at least once in life

 

[Bard of Angels]

If I had that much money, there are lots of things I need to do with it other than travel to Israel...like fix up the house I live in before it falls in on me.