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The Secret to Training Dogs

Mike

Mike

Member
I wonder who here has the ability that neither my wife or I seem to have. Since getting married 20 years ago, we've had an Alaskan Malamute and now a Bichon; neither of which we've ever been able to establish any kind of obedience with. I see other dogs in the neighborhood just sitting on their property without any effort to run off. Both of our dogs would take off at a moments notice. At least our Malamute would wait to sneak off. Our Bichon doesn't even give it any pause. He just starts a-walkin'. He also has no impulse control. If there's pizza anywhere he can possibly get to, he'll get to it. If he feels like knocking over the kitchen garbage to get what's inside, he'll do it. Our neighborhood has an association that does not allow fences, so we need to have the collar for the invisible fence. If we don't, see ya!! If one more neighbor sees him chew a hole through a garbage back on garbage night, I might find myself in a tussle.

So, as we're on our second malfunctioning dog, I think I've resolved that the malfunction has more to do with us than them. For all you people who have this ability, kudos. I respect that. You annoy me, and I'm jealous, but I respect that.

(Handy, please don't come with any snide remarks about dogs vs. cats. Most dogs can be trained (just not ours). Not one cat in the history of the world has ever been trained to listen. :p)
 
male malemute(my dog is actually more of an alaskan malemute then the wolf) she is easily trainable at times. but only if my wife does it.

my daughter calls cheyenne the b word. wont listen to her at all.:lol
 
The best dog book I've read is "The Koehler Method of Guard Dog Training," by William Koehler. My copy was published in 1976 and the author recommends a style that forces your dog to pay attention to you, not the leash. It's the focus that is instilled in him that does the trick.

http://www.survivalbus.com/index.ph.../THE+KOEHLER+METHOD+OF+Guard+Dog+Training.pdf

G'luck, his book is on guard dog for police and military but the parts I found most useful was the "sit/stay" and leash training methods described.

~Sparrow
 
I had a Shepherd , Timberwolf mix years ago, and believe you me, that's a dog that you need to train...

Training a dog takes a tremendous amount of time and effort and consistency. It's about relationshiop, and you've got to be the Alpha Male. This aint your kid where choice is an option.., so don't treat your dog like a child, treat them like a dog, and your the Alpha Male.

Food is a great incentive to get them to do what you want, but it's a tool to build trust and loyalty. You can't expect to have a relationship with your child if your always trying to teach them. No, you've got to play with them too. So make your training fun for the dog and encourage them, then reward them.

You'll learn your dog has it's own personality and some like to play rough. That's ok, get them riled up, but then just as fast, or when they get to far out there, calm them down, and then give them a treat.

It starts small. Sit, lay, stand. That's the easy stuff because they know they are going to get a treat. But getting them to heel is a whole other story and yes, a choke collar works pretty well if used right.

To get them to heel, they are on your left side on a short leash. Don't let them pull on the leash. It needs to be loose with no tension. When they pull, don't pull back. Instead, give it a quick tug... Get their attention as you say, "Heel" in a firm, friendly voice. After a bit, have him "sit" and give him a treat. Do this enough and you should be able to take your dog next to that fence with those noisy dogs barking and growling and he won't respond to them at all... He'll just heel, even without a leash if you've taught him right.

Same thing goes for , "Sit, Stay". Start out with short "Stay" and progressively get longer. By longer, I mean walk away from him. He needs to stay while you go... It takes time to have him "Stay" for a long period of time when he can't see you, but I got my dog to "Stay" for over an hour. Again, give him a good treat when you get back, and if he likes to play, reward him with play time as well.

Have fun!
 
I feel like we were very serious about training with our AM, but I guess you can always do more. We had her in several levels of obedience class, practiced with her every day (she was our "only child" at the time), and we even took advantage of free sessions with a "pet psychologist" at the vet (Yes, that's what I said. A pet psychologist.). She taught us how to establish dominance over the nuances of "pack dogs". We lowered the tone of our voices and would do exercises where we laid her on her back, put a hand on her chest, looked in her eyes, and spoke firmly. It was as if to say, "I'm the leader of this pack.". As far as I know, we weren't on hidden camera for some TV show. :lol

When we were in training mode, she came to obey to the point that we didn't need a leash. But if we weren't in training mode, she wouldn't stay on our property. We had a fence at our last house, and if I had a dime for every time she dug her way under the fence to get out... :gah

For some reason, we've just never had a dog that had impulse control. I would love to be that guy with a dog that stayed near by without a leash or would get down when company visits. Our Bichon is 8 now, and I don't know if he'd be accommodating to change. Julie and I say this is the last time, but I've always had a dog, and I suspect I'll change my mind after he's gone for a while, and then I'll convince her, and then I'll get that look when we have another problem dog; that "this was your idea" look. Our youngest is 10 now, and eventually we'll have "empty nest syndrome". Some people never learn. :shrug
 
Well Mike, it's like my current Rat Terrier. Great dog, obeys fantastic... but when her hunting urge takes over forget it, she's gone quicker than you can say goodbye, and you aint gonna catch her no way. Hey, it's just the way it is. It's in her breed.

I know that some Husky Breeds are the same way, just like most Labs and certainly Beagles. They like to roam... it's part of their breed.

I would suggest maybe doing a little more research before your next dog. The Library has some great books... Or, you could always invest in an underground electrical fence :lol
 
Mike said:
I feel like we were very serious about training with our AM, but I guess you can always do more. We had her in several levels of obedience class, practiced with her every day (she was our "only child" at the time), and we even took advantage of free sessions with a "pet psychologist" at the vet (Yes, that's what I said. A pet psychologist.). She taught us how to establish dominance over the nuances of "pack dogs". We lowered the tone of our voices and would do exercises where we laid her on her back, put a hand on her chest, looked in her eyes, and spoke firmly. It was as if to say, "I'm the leader of this pack.". As far as I know, we weren't on hidden camera for some TV show. :lol

When we were in training mode, she came to obey to the point that we didn't need a leash. But if we weren't in training mode, she wouldn't stay on our property. We had a fence at our last house, and if I had a dime for every time she dug her way under the fence to get out... :gah

For some reason, we've just never had a dog that had impulse control. I would love to be that guy with a dog that stayed near by without a leash or would get down when company visits. Our Bichon is 8 now, and I don't know if he'd be accommodating to change. Julie and I say this is the last time, but I've always had a dog, and I suspect I'll change my mind after he's gone for a while, and then I'll convince her, and then I'll get that look when we have another problem dog; that "this was your idea" look. Our youngest is 10 now, and eventually we'll have "empty nest syndrome". Some people never learn. :shrug
Click to expand...


my dog does, she wont leave the yard if tell her stay or yell cheyenne in that voice. she does at times rebel, but is dealt with quickly.

she will chase squirls and rabbits without a bat of the eye.
 
I think it has to do with intelligence and need to please and each dog is different. With some research you can find a breed that scores high in both but in my case I had two very smart and very different dogs. One was a shep who was perfect in my view and the other was a Border Collie. Both were "working dogs" and both very intelligent. The desire to please was high in the shep but almost non-existent in the other.

My training was simple and worked to some degree in both but Frizzy, the eccentric, capricious, personality deformed border collie would always look for a way to be "Free, free, free". Sounds like you have a difficult. Keep working is all I can say.
 
<Selected Excperpts> "The Koehler Method of Guard Dog Training,"
by William Koehler

FABLES AND FOIBLES
In the beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth. Man, a bit later, created the fable that "the dog, when he understands, always wants to please."​

The dog, the world's first opportunist, in some ways knowing more of man than man knew of him, sensed and endorsed this delightful state and was so constant and clever in his professions as to give man scant time to review the theory. Through generations the dog worked his wiles, sincere in his faith and devotion, but seeing no harm in throwing man an occasional herring, and in withholding respect from those loved ones whom he so easily bested in every battle of wits. So effective has been this strategy that in this day of communication, many books have catered profitably to those who believe they can train a dog while they hold him accountable only for those actions they approve, and write off the
transgressions with, "He didn't understand -he really wants to please."​

William Koehler said:
Magazines have dignified the prattle of "dog Psychologists" who would rob the dog of a birthright that he has in common with all of God's creatures: the right to the consequences of his own action. There will always be more emphasis and clarity to be had in the contrast between punishment and reward than from the technique of "only good," and if they obey, "still more good." And there is more meaning and awareness of living in a life that knows the consequences of both favorable and unfavorable action. So let's not deprive the dog of his privilege of experiencing the consequences of right and wrong, or, more
definitely, punishment as well as praise.
Click to expand...

If you do want to take of look at the link to the PDF version of the book, I'd suggest skipping the first few chapters and starting around page 240 or so where he describes equipment, including a 15' horse longe that I found highly effective along with his method(s).

~Sparrow
 
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Mike said:
I wonder who here has the ability that neither my wife or I seem to have. Since getting married 20 years ago, we've had an Alaskan Malamute and now a Bichon; neither of which we've ever been able to establish any kind of obedience with. I see other dogs in the neighborhood just sitting on their property without any effort to run off. Both of our dogs would take off at a moments notice. At least our Malamute would wait to sneak off. Our Bichon doesn't even give it any pause. He just starts a-walkin'. He also has no impulse control. If there's pizza anywhere he can possibly get to, he'll get to it. If he feels like knocking over the kitchen garbage to get what's inside, he'll do it. Our neighborhood has an association that does not allow fences, so we need to have the collar for the invisible fence. If we don't, see ya!! If one more neighbor sees him chew a hole through a garbage back on garbage night, I might find myself in a tussle.

So, as we're on our second malfunctioning dog, I think I've resolved that the malfunction has more to do with us than them. For all you people who have this ability, kudos. I respect that. You annoy me, and I'm jealous, but I respect that.

(Handy, please don't come with any snide remarks about dogs vs. cats. Most dogs can be trained (just not ours). Not one cat in the history of the world has ever been trained to listen. :p)
Click to expand...

My wife and I have raised, trained, and lived with two labs over the last twenty years. We've had great success using the techniques of the Monks of New Skete. The book is a little expensive, but you can probably find one used. It was particularly helpful teaching us how to pick the right puppy.

Raising Your Dog with the Monks of New Skete
 
Sparrow, I've been meaning to download the PDF and spend some time on it. I'll do that. Thanks!

Mark, that's quite a title! :) I searched our public library, and the coop its in has that book. I found an even cheaper way. :thumbsup If I find it helpful enough, I'll go ahead and spring for it. Thanks to you, too.
 
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