The sins of our forefathers - generational curses

[Classik]

I doubt if there is another thread on this (not sure):

The sins of our forefathers - generational curses

Once you give your life to Christ - the next step is 'deliverance from the sins of our forefathers' (some call it family delverance, some call it Land deliverance, some call it generational curses).

This is one of the hottest topics some churches have been debating on.

Is family deliverance biblical (even after one has received the Lord)?

It seems to suggest that the Blood (shed on the cross) isn't enough.

Group A will tell you,

'Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

2Cor. 5:17 NKJV

Group B will tell you,

deliverance from curses, your witchcraft in the family, covenant with the devil (your family served foreign gods), poverty, untimely deaths etc

And they have some biblical verses to back up their arguement, e.g see Exodus 20:4-6. I don't remember all. If I remember the other verses I will post them.

 

[handy]

Once you give your life to Christ - the next step is 'deliverance from the sins of our forefathers' (some call it family delverance, some call it Land deliverance, some call it generational curses).

Nope...once you give your life to Christ, the next step is to be baptized...

It seems to suggest that the Blood (shed on the cross) isn't enough.

It sure does, doesn't it.

Frankly, I don't believe in "generational curses".

If folks want to try to share some scriptures that they think teach this concept, OK...but the commandment referred to definitely doesn't teach of a "generational curse".

 

[Hitch]

I doubt if there is another thread on this (not sure):

The sins of our forefathers - generational curses

Once you give your life to Christ - the next step is 'deliverance from the sins of our forefathers' (some call it family delverance, some call it Land deliverance, some call it generational curses).

This is one of the hottest topics some churches have been debating on.

Is family deliverance biblical (even after one has received the Lord)?

It seems to suggest that the Blood (shed on the cross) isn't enough.

Group A will tell you, 2Cor. 5:17 NKJV

Group B will tell you,


And they have some biblical verses to back up their arguement, e.g see Exodus 20:4-6. I don't remember all. If I remember the other verses I will post them.

I've heard some strange things from missionaries, and I give a lot of weight to what front line fighters report.

That said, if this is a real problem that can lurk in families and generations of church going folks it seems we would still be unraveling the dark connections of our European pagan ancestors of the first generation of converts.
I'll wager it has more in connection with our North American instant everything culture where 'long term' means three weeks.
What we have ,the culture that exist because of the influence of the church is much more a matter or reaping what we plant over time. Dont forget the oldest profession isnt what you've been told, its gardener, and we've been slack there.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What I've noticed about 'generational curses' is they seem to come from the flesh, and not so much the spirit of a person.

We have biological flesh full of various desires and needs that has been born of similar related flesh. It seems to be just a matter of biological fact that the temptations of the flesh that vary among us according to how we have been wired in our natural bodies gets passed down to us in the seed of the same or similar biological wiring passed down to us from our parents.

And as any born again person will tell you, just because we got born again that doesn't mean the desires of our flesh bodies go away. If, for example, you struggle with strong sexual desire as a matter of your biological nature passed down to you from your parents that is what you'll now have to struggle with as a child of God. It's just a matter of biology--biology passed down to us by our parents.

But that's not to say we don't also learn attitudes and behaviors from our parents. It's interesting how if a parent has turned to suicide, or drunkenness, or some other sin to deal with life that the children of that person will learn from that example and be more likely to also turn to those things as the answer to life's pains. It's a plain fact that we do learn these kinds of things from the people in our lives. The Bible gives the example of anger:

24 Do not make friends with a hot-tempered man,
do not associate with one easily angered,
25 or you may learn his ways
and get yourself ensnared. (Proverbs 22:24-25 NIV1984)

But since our parents are so influential in our lives and we have to be so closely associated with them it should be no surprise that we learn so many of their ways and get ourselves ensnared by the same sins they practiced.

I am definitely of the opinion that some people over spiritualize this matter of struggling with the same sins our parents did because of similar biology, and the power of the influence they had in our lives.

 

[Classik]

What I've noticed about 'generational curses' is they seem to come from the flesh, and not so much the spirit of a person.

We have biological flesh full of various desires and needs that has been born of similar related flesh. It seems to be just a matter of biological fact that the temptations of the flesh that vary among us according to how we have been wired in our natural bodies gets passed down to us in the seed of the same or similar biological wiring passed down to us from our parents.
.

you are right.
Certain ailments are hereditory, and when a generation suffers that hereditory disease some think it has to do with curses. It is just a hereditory disease - and has nothing to do with curses (though there could be possibilities).

 

[Classik]

Frankly, I don't believe in "generational curses".

If folks want to try to share some scriptures that they think teach this concept, OK...but the commandment referred to definitely doesn't teach of a "generational curse".

I don't know what to believe here. Perhaps it exists perhaps it doesn't.

But there could be a situation where God could decide to punish a family (or maybe a generation) for thier iniquity - I do not know if it agrees with Exodus 20:4-6

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Frankly, I don't believe in "generational curses".

If folks want to try to share some scriptures that they think teach this concept, OK...but the commandment referred to definitely doesn't teach of a "generational curse".

I think the problem is people have not properly defined, Biblically, what it means for people to be influenced by the sinful decisions parents and elders in the family have chosen to make. Decisions that continue to affect us even after we are born again. Please be careful to not automatically understand what I say here in the vein that 'generational curses' are commonly taught.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

you are right.
Certain ailments are hereditory, and when a generation suffers that hereditory disease some think it has to do with curses. It is just a hereditory disease - and has nothing to do with curses (though there could be possibilities).

Consider the children born to parents who willingly and knowingly put their kids at risk while they're still in the womb and give them problems from birth they will live with for a lifetime. This I believe is an example of how sins of people who hate God visit their children...even to the third and fourth generation...and as you point out, just as God says that can happen. If there's one thing that's for sure, God doesn't protect our children from our sinful foolishness. Divorce, drug abuse, ungodly training through our example, etc., these all affect our children whether we want to believe it or not. I suggest that it's how the concept of generational curses works is what we don't understand, not that it doesn't happen. Sin is like a communicable disease that may or may not pass to those who come in contact with it. And sin has consequences.

 

[handy]

I think the problem is people have not properly defined, Biblically, what it means for people to be influenced by the sinful decisions parents and elders in the family have chosen to make. Decisions that continue to affect us even after we are born again. Please be careful to not automatically understand what I say here in the vein that 'generational curses' are commonly taught.

I do understand where you're coming from and agree with you that this is the true meaning of texts like the first commandment.

What I heartily reject is the idea that one must "clean house" when one becomes a Christian...teachings that one must research what one's ancestors did and renounce these things specifically, or get rid of objects like books or CDs or whatever, or else one will be under a "curse" and subject to demonic oppression.

My great-great-grandmother had a crystal ball. This would have been my grandfather's grandmother. She apparently gave "readings" with it, but not as a true believer, just as something that was part of the pop culture of the day, when spiritualism was all the rage, rather like seances were in the '70's. I was once told by a well meaning sister in Christ that I was under a curse and would remain under the curse unless I renounced my ancestor's involvement in the occult. My response? Greater is He that is in me, than he who is in the world. Christ's shed blood and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is more than enough to counter any of that stuff.

However, there is a long, long history of child sexual abuse in my family...now that is something that I experienced first hand...not because of a demonic "curse"...but because of learned behavior, kept secrets, and up until recently a society that looked the other way. These are the things that non-Christian children can be subjected to. My sisters, brother and I are all committed Christians...none of our children suffered the sexual abuse. Not because of a lifted "curse" but because we are raising our children in the Lord...and sexually abusing them isn't of the Lord. When people are raised outside of God's will for the family and for parents and children...bad things do happen. When Christians raise their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord...they are blessed indeed.

 

[Hitch]

I do understand where you're coming from and agree with you that this is the true meaning of texts like the first commandment.

What I heartily reject is the idea that one must "clean house" when one becomes a Christian...teachings that one must research what one's ancestors did and renounce these things specifically, or get rid of objects like books or CDs or whatever, or else one will be under a "curse" and subject to demonic oppression.

My great-great-grandmother had a crystal ball. This would have been my grandfather's grandmother. She apparently gave "readings" with it, but not as a true believer, just as something that was part of the pop culture of the day, when spiritualism was all the rage, rather like seances were in the '70's. I was once told by a well meaning sister in Christ that I was under a curse and would remain under the curse unless I renounced my ancestor's involvement in the occult. My response? Greater is He that is in me, than he who is in the world. Christ's shed blood and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is more than enough to counter any of that stuff.

However, there is a long, long history of child sexual abuse in my family...now that is something that I experienced first hand...not because of a demonic "curse"...but because of learned behavior, kept secrets, and up until recently a society that looked the other way. These are the things that non-Christian children can be subjected to. My sisters, brother and I are all committed Christians...none of our children suffered the sexual abuse. Not because of a lifted "curse" but because we are raising our children in the Lord...and sexually abusing them isn't of the Lord. When people are raised outside of God's will for the family and for parents and children...bad things do happen. When Christians raise their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord...they are blessed indeed.

Well said.

 

[Classik]

Originally Posted by Classik

you are right.

Certain ailments are hereditory, and when a generation suffers that hereditory disease some think it has to do with curses. It is just a hereditory disease - and has nothing to do with curses (though there could be possibilities).

Consider the children born to parents who willingly and knowingly put their kids at risk while they're still in the womb and give them problems from birth they will live with for a lifetime. This I believe is an example of how sins of people who hate God visit their children...even to the third and fourth generation...and as you point out, just as God says that can happen. If there's one thing that's for sure, God doesn't protect our children from our sinful foolishness. Divorce, drug abuse, ungodly training through our example, etc., these all affect our children whether we want to believe it or not. I suggest that it's how the concept of generational curses works is what we don't understand, not that it doesn't happen. Sin is like a communicable disease that may or may not pass to those who come in contact with it. And sin has consequences.

I believe that has to do with birth deffects or genetic problems/mutations.


In some cases (and that's why I'm kind of uncomfortable here) the individuals never really sinned. It was something really done out of ignorance.
Take for instance, pregnant women are advised never to take certain drugs. If a pregnant woman takes takes a harmful drug during pregnancy this particular ignorant behaviour could affect her progeny. It's one of the reasons we have birth defects. Most radioactive materials and strong EM Radiations can affect a man/woman, and when he/she has a baby you notice the effect on the baby.

It is ignorance - I don't believe this people really sinned.


However I keep wondering what really happened in the OT. Was it the same birth problems? I do not completely think it was. And if it wasn't, completely, perhaps...there are some cases of Exodus 20:4-6 that are still possible today.

 

[Classik]

My great-great-grandmother had a crystal ball. This would have been my grandfather's grandmother. She apparently gave "readings" with it, but not as a true believer, just as something that was part of the pop culture of the day, when spiritualism was all the rage, rather like seances were in the '70's. I was once told by a well meaning sister in Christ that I was under a curse and would remain under the curse unless I renounced my ancestor's involvement in the occult. My response? Greater is He that is in me, than he who is in the world. Christ's shed blood and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is more than enough to counter any of that stuff.

Yeah - though
-Kind of sounds like idolatory to me, keeping them;):dunnos
Is the crystal ball a stone? Is it a kind of diamond? It probably is - I should take the curse away - release the crystal lol.

 

[felix]

Classik, There are two things mixed up.

Generational curses, just like inheritance from forefathers, have nothing to do with Salvation. It is very different and most Christian mix up generational curses from salvation.

Let me give you an example from the Bible:
Curses:
In 2Kgs 5:27, the descendants or the generations of Gehazi did not do any sin to receive this leprosy.

Blessings:
In 2Kgs 10:30, the LORD said to Jehu that He will make his sons shall sit on the throne of Israel till the fourth generation because of what Jehu did.
However, Jehoahaz (son) 2Kgs 13:2, Joash (grandson) 2Kgs 13:11, Jeroboam (great-grandson) 2Kgs 14:24 and finally Zechariah 2Kgs 15:9 - all did evil in the sight of the LORD. You can also see in 2Kgs 15:12, God fulfilling his promise of blessing said to Jehu because he did what was right in the sight of the Lord irrespective of whether the receiver is worthy of receiving it.

Curse is not sin but a result of sin. Our sins forgiven does not automatically remove our curses.

In 2Sam 12:11-13, we read about David,
Thus says the LORD: 'Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give [them] to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. 'For you did [it] secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.'. So David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die.

If God had put away the sin of David in 2Sam 12:13, then why is the curse in 2Sam 12:11-12 executed by God in 2Sam 16:22?

People often mix-up curses and blessings with salvation of God.

• You can be cursed with sickness and poverty by the sins of your forefathers and yet you can be saved in Christ.
• You can be blessed with health and riches of this world through the blessings of your forefathers and yet you may not be saved.

So, every sin or good work produces curses and blessings for himself and his generation. When God forgives our sins, the curse because of that sin remains. Some curses are not the curses in Bible but put by men for the injustice done unto them and God executes them exactly how the victim cursed it. If we know that we did such an injustice, until we settle them, the curse will remain on us. We see this in Prov 26:2.

So, to effectively remove a family curse, we need to make sure we haven't received any curse by doing any injustice to anyone. If it is so, we need to settle with them first. If we can't settle an injustice done by our forefathers, we MUST pray to God to remove those curses. Sometimes God does not remove the curses (because it could be a curse through birth like a birth defect for children or losing a limb through an accident that had already happened), but He does makes it an indirect blessing for us or turns the curse into blessing or gives us the strength to go through it.

 

[Classik]

Classik, There are two things mixed up.
Generational curses, just like inheritance from forefathers, have nothing to do with Salvation. Itis very different and most Christian mix up generational curses from salvation.
Let me give you an example from the Bible:
Curses:
In 2Kgs 5:27, the descendants or the generationsof Gehazi did not do any sin to receive this leprosy.
Blessings:
In 2Kgs 10:30, the LORD said to Jehu that He will make his sons shall sit on the throne of Israel till the fourth generation because of what Jehu did.
However, Jehoahaz (son) 2Kgs 13:2, Joash (grandson) 2Kgs 13:11, Jeroboam (great-grandson) 2Kgs 14:24 and finally Zechariah 2Kgs15:9 - all did evil in the sight of the LORD. You can also see in 2Kgs 15:12, God fulfilling his promise of blessing said to Jehu because he did what was right in the sight of the Lord irrespective of whether the receiver is worthy of receiving it.
Curse is not sin but a result of sin. Our sins forgiven does not automatically remove our curses.
In 2Sam 12:11-13, we read about David,
Thus says the LORD: 'Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give [them] to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. 'For you did [it] secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.'. So David said to Nathan,"I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die.
If God had put away the sin of David in 2Sam 12:13, then why is the curse in 2Sam 12:11-12 executed by God in 2Sam 16:22?
People often mix-up curses and blessings with salvation of God.

Powerful perspective! Thanks
I have been actually looking for some of these verses.

And I keep wondering if some conditions are permanent

 

[felix]

And I keep wondering if some conditions are permanent

All curses will one day come to an end. (Rev 22:3) And there shall be no more curse... God cursed the land for man's sake and it is still cursed as it produces thorns and bristles still, and we had to sweat (or work) for our bread.

But, if your question is specifically to our lifetime (until we die) for the curses which we hold upon our head for the sins by our forefathers, then the answer depends upon, which generation we are from the person who did such a grave sin which caused God to curse us, how much did we do good and please God to take that curse away. God will question until the 3rd and 4th generation. But, if our heart is right before the sight of the Lord and do whatever it pleases Him, He will not allow that generational curse to pass on to our generation but blesses our generation. However, the same curse will pass on to our sibling's generation if the sibling is not good in the sight of the Lord.

If God had cause a son or a daughter with some birth defect (e.g, born blind), then that curse is for life and cannot be reverted (except if it is for His glory to be revealed). However, if we sinned against someone which can be fixed (e.g., cheated financially or in other ways) and God inflicted with some curse like sickness or huge financial loss, then we must fix it, for God to remove that curse from us. Sometimes, we can't fix it and we must repent to God sincerely for God to remove such curses which are blocking the rich blessings of God from Heaven.

 

[Tina]

Wow felix, you have quite a good insight in this matter. I have some questions...

Take for example a country like India where millions of false gods and idols are worshipped. Most people through generations are dedicated to one or more of these god from birth, eg. god of wealth, god of fertility, monkey gods etc..


What if they turn to Christ, get born-again and completely abandon all other gods and occult practices - are they under generational curse? are they automatically delivered the moment they give their lives to Christ?

 

[Igloo]

I have mixed feelings about generational curses. On the one hand, the exodus passage is present, as is the story of the famine that happened in David's time because of what Saul did (2 Samuel 21). While some people say heredity diseases are natural, I have to disagree. I'd have to say God designed the body without disease, and therefore a disease that keeps getting passed down from generation to generation has some sort of cause. Jesus died so that we could have life to the full (John 10:10), and it's hard to have life to the full if you have a crippling disease. Jesus was noted as healing like everyone who came to him and asked for it, so this leads me to believe that Jesus also didn't believe that diseases and malformations should be common place and accepted. That said, I have trouble believing that a person should be held back for a long laundry list of the sins that their ancestors did, that they have to find out about somehow in order to get God's blessing. The Bible also says " <SUP id=en-NIV1984-20870 class=versenum>20</SUP> The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him." Ezekiel 18:20 (NIV 1984). It hardly seems fair for God to keep an accounting of every little nook and cranny and allow us to be kept in punishment for it when there may be no way that we would find out about some of the details. So I don't know. I do believe in natural generation consequences like how parents and grandparents treating the children affects the children's behavior, but I'm still undecided on my position on generational curses.

 

[Lewis]

generational curses
http://www.greatbiblestudy.com/generational_curses.php

Pastor Larry Huch on Breaking Generational Curses

http://www.thevoicemagazine.com/chr...rry-huch-on-breaking-generational-curses.html

 

[felix]

Take for example a country like India where millions of false gods and idols are worshipped. Most people through generations are dedicated to one or more of these god from birth, eg. god of wealth, god of fertility, monkey gods etc..

What if they turn to Christ, get born-again and completely abandon all other gods and occult practices - are they under generational curse? are they automatically delivered the moment they give their lives to Christ?

The curses in Gen 3:19 (becoming dust) and Gen 3:16 (pregnancy pain), which are the results of our original sin is still going throughout generations inspite of us believing in Christ and becoming a born again Christian. Did God removed the curse of pain during pregnancy when we believed in Christ? I was inside the labor ward twice with my wife for the birth of my two daughters and I know the suffering. God did not take those curses away but He gave the strength to my wife to go through that pain. So does our every curses and every blessings that we have upon our head.

Curses comes in various forms:
sickness, hunger (Exod 23:25), miscarriage, barrenness (Exod 23:26), history of violence in family (2Sam 12:10), short life, constantly facing violence (Prov 3:2) etc.
If these can be broken by coming into Christ, then why do many Christians still suffer? Coming back to the original question, yes, they will have the generational curse whatever they inherited from birth until they believed in Christ, but their generation will not because, the person believed in Christ and God will show mercy to his/her generation. Just to add, this does not mean Christians will not inherit any generational curses. It simply means, we will have God's mercy on our to overcome any curse.

Curses are from God and His Word will not return to Him void (Isa 55:11). He can through His mercy, delay the curse just like what God did to Hezekiah (2Chr 32:26) and Solomon (1Kgs 11:12).

If a Christian did some evil and asks forgiveness, then God will forgive his sins but the curse of that evil he did will be upon his head and his generation. Curses don't vanish away but if we are with Christ, God will give us the strength to face it and overcome it (or) even gives us a blessing that nullifies that curse. Daniel didn't do any sin to be in Babylon. Although he suffered as an alien for the sins of his forefathers, he was raised next to king by God and he lacked nothing.

 

[felix]

generational curses
http://www.greatbiblestudy.com/generational_curses.php

Pastor Larry Huch on Breaking Generational Curses [/B]

http://www.thevoicemagazine.com/chr...rry-huch-on-breaking-generational-curses.html

Both the link quotes Galatians 3:13 but it actually refers to the curse of the law (i.e, Deut 11:26).

However, 'visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children's children' is never referred in scriptures as a curse. 'Generational Curse' is a term that we use because the generation had to answer for the iniquity of their forefathers.

Iniquity is a bit different from sins. Iniquity is injustice which mainly deals with others. However, sin has a broader meaning which also includes iniquity and sins that aren't iniquity. e.g, lustful thoughts are not iniquity but rape, murder, cheating which deals with others is iniquity.
(More Info: Sin and Iniquity)

God questions the generation (the so called generational curse) only for iniquity not sins.

In Ezek 18:17-18, the verse says that the good son shall not die for the iniquity of his father - which is exactly what God said to David 'you shall not die' in 2Sam 12:13 but still killed the child and God executed his judgement as He told David.