Bible Study The sons of God and daughters of men?

[Edward]

The only way Nephilim could appear after the flood would be if they were the result of a genetic disorder such as 'giantism'

Now my understanding is that, Noah and his family were "perfect in their generations"...but! That Noahs sons, Shem, Ham, and Japeth took wives at the last minute (for re-population!) and that they were not perfect in their generations. So that would be how it would be possible for the...and also after that...to have occurred.

(Remember after Noah landed? He got drunk and blah blah blah, and got mad a t Ham? Ok, that's in there. So keep reading, why did Noah curse Hams boy instead of him? That doesn't make sense to curse the grandchild when you're mad at your son! Some postulate that it was because when the boy was born, he had 6 fingers and toes. Nephilim traits.)

I admit this is somewhat hearsay to me, I did not research this out, but heard Chuck Missler say this in one of his messages...and it would make sense.

 

[Edward]

Yes.

Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
After reading the above verse:

Do you believe that when the sons of god went into the daughters of men, they bore children to them or half-breads?

Do you believe the Nephilim were mighty men or half-breads?

Not that I like it...but I believe they bore half-breeds.

Nephilim mighty men? half-breeds...yes. I think that it may be entirely plausible...that all the old time Greek Mythology guys...like apollo & zeus and all those guys...it's could be in fact Greek History instead. That those guys were real and they wrote about them!
I wouldn't doubt it at this point.

 

[calvin]

Maybe so Brother. I don't know. All I know is what I've read. there is no evidence (that I know of) of angel DNA. But even so, if IF, that happened...then the resulting DNA of the children, would not be fully human. You need 46 chromosons or something like that, 23 from the dad, 23 from the mom? Maybe.

I would not be too dead set against hybrid beings though. Scripture descibes some in heaven! So...we're going to see them or God is a liar. And He's not. It's in Revelation Brother. I'll look it up if you want me too...four faced being (Ox, Lion, Eagle and Man I think...) Yes.

Must admit I never thought of these four faced beings as hybrids. Interesting thought only..........
Jesus told us that angels in heaved do not marry and marry in the Biblical sense involves sex.
So if these four faced beings were indeed hybrids, not only is there a lot more going on up there than we suspect (no surprise), but there would seem to need be some single faced pure breeds as well.
Since (as far as we know) there is no death and dying up there there would be no need of procreation by the various citizenry.

 

[Edward]

Where's Bigfoot tie into this? Are those Nephilim?

I'd sure hide once man invented guns, lol!

 

[Edward]

Must admit I never thought of these four faced beings as hybrids. Interesting thought only..........
Jesus told us that angels in heaved do not marry and marry in the Biblical sense involves sex.
So if these four faced beings were indeed hybrids, not only is there a lot more going on up there than we suspect (no surprise), but there would seem to need be some single faced pure breeds as well.
Since (as far as we know) there is no death and dying up there there would be no need of procreation by the various citizenry.

Agreed. Scripture also says that the fallen angels (who got kicked out of heaven, where they don't marry...) gave up their first estate, but left their first habitation! So we can't really be sure exactly what shape they were in then, can we? Maybe they were in a position to be able to function in sex? Scripture doesn't even say Angels are sexless. It says they are not given in marriage. Huge potential difference.

 

[calvin]

(Remember after Noah landed? He got drunk and blah blah blah, and got mad a t Ham? Ok, that's in there. So keep reading, why did Noah curse Hams boy instead of him? That doesn't make sense to curse the grandchild when you're mad at your son! Some postulate that it was because when the boy was born, he had 6 fingers and toes. Nephilim traits.)

Hello calvin here,
I understand that Noah could not curse Ham because the Lord had blessed Noah and his three sons.
Now then if Ham was blessed by the Lord, Noah could not curse him. The next best for Noah was to curse Ham's son Canaan.
Gen 9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.

 

[calvin]

Scripture doesn't even say Angels are sexless. It says they are not given in marriage. Huge potential difference.

Not directly, no.
There is scripture and also common sense that show that angels don't have any sexuality.
Why is it that we never hear of girl angels?
In fact when we think of it, there is no sexuality untul the alternate gender exists. How could one describe Adam as a male before Eve was created? Adam would just be good ol' Adam. Once Eve cam on the scene, then there were noticeable differences.
On the subject of angels taking a fancy to women;
If angels are mightier than men and of higher intellect, why fancy women?
We men are mightier than chimps or Orangutans but we would not want to marry one, we would not find them attractive even. And Marriage does mean a lifelong commitment.
So an angel that does not age, would not want to form a life long commitment to a woman who in a comparatively short time is going to look a bit less than attractive.
And the scripture expressly mentions marriage, not a one night stand in Gen 6:2

 

[JLB]

That was calvin 's point about this passage. And it's correct.


Incorrect. Maybe you have an understanding of your seemingly two contradictory statements that I'm not understanding. But I don't see it. Which is fine of course because 2 Peter 2:4-5 says nothing about the time they were cast down to Hell other than it's flow through history and that it occurred past tense. But once again, you have failed to answer a relevant question.

Were angels in Hell (in chains) procreating with women in your opinion?

BTW, "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials".

Were Noah and his sons godly?

Hello calvin here.
can you please explain (from Scripture) just when you think the 'in those days' were?

Still waiting for you guys to give a biblical explanation as to how Noah and /or his sons produced giants, and enough giants to populate the entire promised land when no mention of giants or sons of God are described in their genealogy, since you believe Noah was a son of God and produced giants after the flood.


Now this is the genealogy of the sons of Noah: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. And sons were born to them after the flood.

2 The sons of Japheth were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras. 3 The sons of Gomer were Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah. 4 The sons of Javan were Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. 5 From these the coastland peoples of the Gentiles were separated into their lands, everyone according to his language, according to their families, into their nations.

6 The sons of Ham were Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan. 7 The sons of Cush were Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah, and Sabtechah; and the sons of Raamah were Sheba and Dedan.

8 Cush begot Nimrod; he began to be a mighty one on the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord; therefore it is said, “Like Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord.” 10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. 11 From that land he went to Assyria and built Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah, 12 and Resen between Nineveh and Calah (that is the principal city).

13 Mizraim begot Ludim, Anamim, Lehabim, Naphtuhim, 14 Pathrusim, and Casluhim (from whom came the Philistines and Caphtorim).

15 Canaan begot Sidon his firstborn, and Heth; 16 the Jebusite, the Amorite, and the Girgashite; 17 the Hivite, the Arkite, and the Sinite; 18 the Arvadite, the Zemarite, and the Hamathite. Afterward the families of the Canaanites were dispersed. 19 And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon as you go toward Gerar, as far as Gaza; then as you go toward Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim, as far as Lasha. 20 These were the sons of Ham, according to their families, according to their languages, in their lands and in their nations.

21 And children were born also to Shem, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder. 22 The sons of Shem were Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud, and Aram. 23 The sons of Aram were Uz, Hul, Gether, and Mash. 24 Arphaxad begot Salah, and Salah begot Eber. 25 To Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan. 26 Joktan begot Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, 27 Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, 28 Obal, Abimael, Sheba, 29 Ophir, Havilah, and Jobab. All these were the sons of Joktan. 30 And their dwelling place was from Mesha as you go toward Sephar, the mountain of the east. 31 These werethe sons of Shem, according to their families, according to their languages, in their lands, according to their nations.

32 These were the families of the sons of Noah, according to their generations, in their nations; and from these the nations were divided on the earth after the flood. Genesis 10:1-32


Where is the mention of giants in this passage of scripture?



JLB

 

[Edward]

Why is it that we never hear of girl angels?

There is a real good joke in that somewhere, but I'm going to leave it alone because I don't want to offend any of our ladies.

On the subject of angels taking a fancy to women;
If angels are mightier than men and of higher intellect, why fancy women?

Are you kidding Brother?! Our girls?! Women are God finest creation! Can you not see?!!! Very nice. Why wouldn't they want our women?
Mankind was created in the very image and likeness of God Himself. That has to count for something! Especially on the girl side!!

We men are mightier than chimps or Orangutans but we would not want to marry one, we would not find them attractive even.

We're not chimps to the Angels Brother. And the chimps weren't created in the likeness of God Himself.

Marriage does mean a lifelong commitment.
So an angel that does not age, would not want to form a life long commitment to a woman who in a comparatively short time is going to look a bit less than attractive.
And the scripture expressly mentions marriage, not a one night stand in Gen 6:2

So these same Angels who sinned against God in heaven and were kicked out for it...you think they would have scruples about relationships? Uhhh, okaaay..

Once Eve cam on the scene, then there were noticeable differences.

Viva le' differences Brother! :yes

I love all you girls! :nod

 

[calvin]

There is a real good joke in that somewhere, but I'm going to leave it alone because I don't want to offend any of our ladies.



Are you kidding Brother?! Our girls?! Women are God finest creation! Can you not see?!!! Very nice. Why wouldn't they want our women?
Mankind was created in the very image and likeness of God Himself. That has to count for something! Especially on the girl side!!



We're not chimps to the Angels Brother. And the chimps weren't created in the likeness of God Himself.



So these same Angels who sinned against God in heaven and were kicked out for it...you think they would have scruples about relationships? Uhhh, okaaay..



Viva le' differences Brother! :yes

I love all you girls! :nod

I am definitely not rubbishing our gals.
You said :"Are you kidding Brother?! Our girls?! Women are God finest creation! Can you not see?!!! Very nice. Why wouldn't they want our women?"
Well it is all relative I think. There are several ethnic classes that I find attractive, there are also several ethic classes that are not at all attractive to me.
I think angels have seen a lot of pleasant to look at things in heaven that we know nothing about.
But this line of chatter is rather out of place because angels are Asexual
So they wouldn't look at women through testosterone glasses in the first place.

 

[calvin]

Still waiting for you guys to give a biblical explanation as to how Noah and /or his sons produced giants, and enough giants to populate the entire promised land when no mention of giants or sons of God are described in their genealogy, since you believe Noah was a son of God and produced giants after the flood.


Now this is the genealogy of the sons of Noah: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. And sons were born to them after the flood.

2 The sons of Japheth were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras. 3 The sons of Gomer were Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah. 4 The sons of Javan were Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. 5 From these the coastland peoples of the Gentiles were separated into their lands, everyone according to his language, according to their families, into their nations.

6 The sons of Ham were Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan. 7 The sons of Cush were Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah, and Sabtechah; and the sons of Raamah were Sheba and Dedan.

8 Cush begot Nimrod; he began to be a mighty one on the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the Lord; therefore it is said, “Like Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord.” 10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. 11 From that land he went to Assyria and built Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah, 12 and Resen between Nineveh and Calah (that is the principal city).

13 Mizraim begot Ludim, Anamim, Lehabim, Naphtuhim, 14 Pathrusim, and Casluhim (from whom came the Philistines and Caphtorim).

15 Canaan begot Sidon his firstborn, and Heth; 16 the Jebusite, the Amorite, and the Girgashite; 17 the Hivite, the Arkite, and the Sinite; 18 the Arvadite, the Zemarite, and the Hamathite. Afterward the families of the Canaanites were dispersed. 19 And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon as you go toward Gerar, as far as Gaza; then as you go toward Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim, as far as Lasha. 20 These were the sons of Ham, according to their families, according to their languages, in their lands and in their nations.

21 And children were born also to Shem, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder. 22 The sons of Shem were Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud, and Aram. 23 The sons of Aram were Uz, Hul, Gether, and Mash. 24 Arphaxad begot Salah, and Salah begot Eber. 25 To Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan. 26 Joktan begot Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, 27 Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, 28 Obal, Abimael, Sheba, 29 Ophir, Havilah, and Jobab. All these were the sons of Joktan. 30 And their dwelling place was from Mesha as you go toward Sephar, the mountain of the east. 31 These werethe sons of Shem, according to their families, according to their languages, in their lands, according to their nations.

32 These were the families of the sons of Noah, according to their generations, in their nations; and from these the nations were divided on the earth after the flood. Genesis 10:1-32


Where is the mention of giants in this passage of scripture?



JLB

Well I don't recall ever claiming or suggesting that the Noahs produced giants at any time pre, post or mid flood.
Me, personally consider it possible that they carried the genetic potential for gigantism to appear a some indeterminable future date.
AS far as I know, gigantism can be genetic, but not necessarily affecting each successive generation. It is probably significant that Goliath of Gath was an oddity rather than just another big boy from Gath.
You can read an interesting article on this at https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110107083729.htm
And there are several other article you can google. It seems also that a tumor on the pituitary gland causes gigantism.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Really Brother?! Popular fable? Scripture?
I love you Brother, but...wow.
What about David and Goliath? Is that a fable too Brother? Really.

Goliath is not applicable to the Genesis incident. He was a product, perhaps, but he has no bearing on the subject beyond Noah's line of Normal Humans produced Giants, proving my point.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Really Brother?! Popular fable? Scripture?
I love you Brother, but...wow.

What about David and Goliath? Is that a fable too Brother? Really.

No t is not what scripture says. You must commit sin to arrive at these men being angels. Men that follow God have always been called sons of God, they still are, I am not The Son of God but I am A son of God. You are attempting to make a case for what the scripture does not, say Angel, fallen angel nor Demon, what it does say is:
6 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were a]">[a]beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not b]">[b]strive with man forever, c]">[c]because he also is flesh; d]">[d]nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Nobody can get there without assumption from somebody leaving me to ask, will you follow a man, if you were taught this, or will you stand up and live of God.


Clearly, the quoted Text of Chapter 6 (courtesy of the Bible Gateway) speaks to that, which we discuss here and obviously, the idea is a very popular Fantasy that is loved by millions.

Except God were to permit it, angels are Spirit Beings, having no extension into our Time/Space Continuum except they have the permission of God
I do not find any scripture that supports this idea and if it is not scriptural, i will not put much stock in it. If it is in the Bible, I believe it, period.

 

[Edward]

No t is not what scripture says. You must commit sin to arrive at these men being angels. Men that follow God have always been called sons of God, they still are, I am not The Son of God but I am A son of God. You are attempting to make a case for what the scripture does not, say Angel, fallen angel nor Demon, what it does say is:
6 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were a]">[a]beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not b]">[b]strive with man forever, c]">[c]because he also is flesh; d]">[d]nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Nobody can get there without assumption from somebody leaving me to ask, will you follow a man, if you were taught this, or will you stand up and live of God.


Clearly, the quoted Text of Chapter 6 (courtesy of the Bible Gateway) speaks to that, which we discuss here and obviously, the idea is a very popular Fantasy that is loved by millions.

Except God were to permit it, angels are Spirit Beings, having no extension into our Time/Space Continuum except they have the permission of God
I do not find any scripture that supports this idea and if it is not scriptural, i will not put much stock in it. If it is in the Bible, I believe it, period.

Allright Brother. I don't want to argue with you and make you mad. I think it's a little harsh to say it's sin to think that but thats inconsequential.

I do not see how Goliath has nothing to do with it at all though. But even so, ok he doesn't....Wow scripture says David killed a giant named Goliath! Wow! Where did he come from?!

 

[th1b.taylor]

Allright Brother. I don't want to argue with you and make you mad. I think it's a little harsh to say it's sin to think that but thats inconsequential.

I do not see how Goliath has nothing to do with it at all though. But even so, ok he doesn't....Wow scripture says David killed a giant named Goliath! Wow! Where did he come from?!

You are refusing to deal with what is in front of your face is the only reason to ask that question. Somebody posted earlier about the Gene Pool and the truth is it is dismally corrupted, that and our leaning towards the Good Life and over purifying our environment is why the Human Race is so very sickly today. The giants are among 8us to this very day. Two of them lived in Houston and played Round Ball for the Rockets in the early days and were known as the Twin Towers.

They are not as tall as Goliath but then as we slide down hill, so does everyones DNA.
edited to add: The reason Goliath does nothing for your case is because the giants of Genesis are a good fifteen centuries before Goliath and few there are that consider this but those people died in the flood, proving my position because everyone born after the Flood are descendants of Noah, lending credibility to the DNA string carries the Gene.

 

[Edward]

It still makes no sense to me. People with giantism have problems. They don't go join the army and become warriors.

 

[Edward]

You are refusing to deal with what is in front of your face is the only reason to ask that question. Somebody posted earlier about the Gene Pool and the truth is it is dismally corrupted, that and our leaning towards the Good Life and over purifying our environment is why the Human Race is so very sickly today. The giants are among 8us to this very day. Two of them lived in Houston and played Round Ball for the Rockets in the early days and were known as the Twin Towers.

They are not as tall as Goliath but then as we slide down hill, so does everyones DNA.
edited to add: The reason Goliath does nothing for your case is because the giants of Genesis are a good fifteen centuries before Goliath and few there are that consider this but those people died in the flood, proving my position because everyone born after the Flood are descendants of Noah, lending credibility to the DNA string carries the Gene.

Actually Bill what I think is going on is that some of us think with our head and some of us, a very few, are thinking with our heart in these matters. This thread has ran it's course. There is a lot of info in this thread and the only thing going on now is some pride of those who just want to be right. So the people can read the whole thread and decide for themselves what they believe. It's the same tired arguments at this point and any questions put forth have already been answered. So I'm out now.

 

[Edward]

Here chessman. I found one more scripture for you. I guess only four of the fallen angels were bound.

Revelation 9
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.../

But of course, I am wrong yada yada this means something totally different. Perhaps Brother, perhaps. Have a blessed day.

 

[JLB]

Well I don't recall ever claiming or suggesting that the Noahs produced giants at any time pre, post or mid flood.

4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4

The giants we all wiped out in the flood.

The giants continued to be produced after the flood when the sons of God came into the daughters of men.

The sons of God were not affected by the flood, as they continued to produce giants, both before and after the flood.


If find no giants mentioned in the genealogy of Noah or his sons.


The reason is sons of God is a reference to angels, not humans.

• Humans are called sons of men in the old testament.

Help, Lord, for the godly man ceases,
For the faithful disappear from among the sons of men.
Psalm 12:1


Their offspring You shall destroy from the earth,
And their descendants from among the sons of men.
Psalm 21:10


The Lord looks from heaven;
He sees all the sons of men.
Psalm 33:13


Come and see the works of God;
He is awesome in His doing toward the sons of men.
Psalms 66:5



Angels are called sons of God.

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.
Job 1:6


7 When the morning stars sang together,
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:7


nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:36


Peter also called them angels or spirits, and associated these during the days of Noah:


For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4

and again

by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
1 Peter 3:19-20



Furthermore the giants in the promised land were said to be descendants of Anak, who originally came from Nephilim giants, not from descendants of Noah.

33 There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.” Numbers 13:33


Why would God have the children of Israel wipe out and destroy "godly men"?



JLB

 

[th1b.taylor]

It still makes no sense to me. People with giantism have problems. They don't go join the army and become warriors.

Agreed, the military today will not use them because their equipment and uniforms would need to be special made and it is that which keeps the out of service. Either Goliath or his king had the equipment paid for or, and most likely they wore no, particularly special Battle Gear. In those days a combatant did not need to fit inside special equipent or gear.