Bible Study The sons of God and daughters of men?

[calvin]

Hi Bill. We under estimate the power of possession of demons in a human being, and what they can do with a human that they possess. If a demon takes control of a man, he can, thru that man, have sex with a woman using the sperm of that man and create a demon/man mix.

That unclean spirits have possessed both men and women is not new, nor is it unsupported by Scripture. But I know of not one nano particle of evidence that angels/demons or unclean spirits have their own DNA. Nor is there any evidence to support the notion that an angel/demon cherub or any other spirit entity can change it's spots:
2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.Esv
Even the Satan can only disguise itself...it can not actually change to become or to have the genuine attributes of an angel of light. How much less could one of these cross the gulf of separation of 'kinds' established in the days of creation?
That is to say that angels do not have DNA, and they can not change what they are to acquire DNA in order to produce some weird hybrid.
Yes they can possess a man and cause him to mate with a woman, but it will be that man's DNA that will be deposited and his only....there being no other DNA available.

 

[Edward]

Not written by Enoch? I've never heard that. Where did you hear that? Enoch was a scribe of God.

Calvin here...again,
That seems to be a circular argument. eg. "The cat sat on the mat" how do we know? Because "the cat sat on the mat"
ie. you can't cite a verse to prove that same verse, you need at least one other.

Ok, fair enough. So...what do we do with Genesis 6:4 then? If it doesn't mean what it says...then what does it mean?

Do you believe that David killed a giant named Goliath?

 

[Edward]

This verse doesn't say anything about fallen angels having sex with women and producing offspring.


Sons of God are not fallen angels, brother.
Nor are children 'half-breads'.

When "sons of God" have sex with women, "children" are born to them, not half breads.

Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were upon the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God went into the daughters of humankind, and they bore children to them. ​

Got it? They bore CHILDREN, not half-breads.

Romans 8:14 For all those who are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. ​

So...normal men and women produce giants?! Whoa! What'd you name yours? (Me and my wife never had any giants)Do you call your children Nephilim?

Do you believe that David killed a giant named Goliath?

 

[th1b.taylor]

I haven't read anything in Enoch that disagrees with canonized scripture. What are we saying Bill? That Enoch was the most righteous man that ever lived...so much so that God took him. Why did God take him? Because he wrote a book of lies about God?! No Sir.

You said something about Enoch disagrees with scripture, or some points made in scripture? Give us an example Brother Bill, please? What points in scripture?

It is not included[n either of the two Canons and right off the bat I know to 0bey God. Jesus/God taught us yhat lf we love Him, we will do our very best to obey His laws,,, He spoke them, every one of them. And God being Omnipotent,Omniscient and Omnipresent, the Bible has been assembled exactly as He wanted it before the Roman Catholic Church and I will not read it, God has not approved, several people that went to seminary and read the book have assued me that I am right to ignore it because it disagrees with scripture. That is my reasoning and I am not ever in need of extra-biblical material for anything but historical value.

 

[Edward]

This isn't something I made up. This stuff is real. Check this out...

 

[calvin]

Not much value in being a giant if a few grass hoppers can rope and hog tie you

 

[Edward]

It is not included[n either of the two Canons and right off the bat I know to 0bey God. Jesus/God taught us yhat lf we love Him, we will do our very best to obey His laws,,, He spoke them, every one of them. And God being Omnipotent,Omniscient and Omnipresent, the Bible has been assembled exactly as He wanted it before the Roman Catholic Church and I will not read it, God has not approved, several people that went to seminary and read the book have assued me that I am right to ignore it because it disagrees with scripture. That is my reasoning and I am not ever in need of extra-biblical material for anything but historical value.

Fair enough Brother. So you have not read it, and that it disagrees with scripture is technically heresay to you.
I have read Enoch, and I tell you Brother, that I have not read anything in it that would disagree with scripture.
I wouldn't say that if it weren't true because I fear God and I would not put a stumbling block before you. You're my Brother in Christ and I would not do that.

Do YOU believe that David killed a giant named Goliath?

I agree with you too...I do not look to Enoch for salvific answers, but for it's historical value only. Like added details about the Nephilim and giants, stuff like that.

 

[chessman]

So...normal men and women produce giants?

No, normal men and women bear children (just like the Text says). Not half children, half-bread fantasy thingy's.

Some children grow up to be tall, some grow up to be short. Maybe you've heard of Saul and his son, David:

1 Samuel 9:1-2 Now there was a man from Benjamin whose name was Kish, the son of Abiel, the son of Zeror, the son of Becorath, the son of Aphiah, the son of a Benjaminite, a very wealthy man. He had a son whose name was Saul, a young and handsome man. There was not a man from the Israelites more handsome than he was; from his shoulders up, he was taller than all the people.​

 

[th1b.taylor]

Not written by Enoch? I've never heard that. Where did you hear that? Enoch was a scribe of God.



Ok, fair enough. So...what do we do with Genesis 6:4 then? If it doesn't mean what it says...then what does it mean?

Do you believe that David killed a giant named Goliath?

It means what it says, Exactly, without adding our personal interpretations and opinions. Doing so is just as bad as cursing God or udsing His nam in vain.

 

[Edward]

Not much value in being a giant if a few grass hoppers can rope and hog tie you

That is funny. Not much value in being a giant whenGod will come along and toss you in a lake of fire either! Or a kid with a sling takes you out, or a guy with a 45/70 Lol.

I don't think I'd want to use a .223 on a giant. Sure, those guys did, but they had a team. They lit him up! Lol

 

[Edward]

No, normal men and women bear children (just like the Text says). Not half children, half-bread fantasy thingy's.

Some children grow up to be tall, some grow up to be short. Maybe you've heard of Saul and his son, David:

1 Samuel 9:1-2 Now there was a man from Benjamin whose name was Kish, the son of Abiel, the son of Zeror, the son of Becorath, the son of Aphiah, the son of a Benjaminite, a very wealthy man. He had a son whose name was Saul, a young and handsome man. There was not a man from the Israelites more handsome than he was; from his shoulders up, he was taller than all the people.​

I thought David's dad was Jesse.

So if these were just tall men...then why does scripture call their children Nephilim?

Do you believe that David killed a giant named Goliath with a sling and and a rock (and God!), like scripture says???? Please?

 

[Edward]

It means what it says, Exactly, without adding our personal interpretations and opinions. Doing so is just as bad as cursing God or udsing His nam in vain.

Ohh!!! Ok, Brother. What in the heck is it talking about then? Nephilim...What the heck is that if mere tall men had a family? Why call the kids Nephilim?

 

[th1b.taylor]

Fair enough Brother. So you have not read it, and that it disagrees with scripture is technically heresay to you.
I have read Enoch, and I tell you Brother, that I have not read anything in it that would disagree with scripture.
I wouldn't say that if it weren't true because I fear God and I would not put a stumbling block before you. You're my Brother in Christ and I would not do that.

Do YOU believe that David killed a giant named Goliath?

I agree with you too...I do not look to Enoch for salvific answers, but for it's historical value only. Like added details about the Nephilim and giants, stuff like that.

By implication, I have already answered your question, yes, I believe every word, right down to the punctuation.

 

[chessman]

So if these were just tall men...then why does scripture call their children Nephilim?

Because they were men living in the Negev of Philistine. Ne-phil-im

Do you believe that David killed a giant named Goliath with a sling and and a rock (and God!), like scripture says????

Yes.

Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.​

After reading the above verse:

Do you believe that when the sons of god went into the daughters of men, they bore children to them or half-breads?

Do you believe the Nephilim were mighty men or half-breads?

 

[th1b.taylor]

Ohh!!! Ok, Brother. What in the heck is it talking about then? Nephilim...What the heck is that if mere tall men had a family? Why call the kids Nephilim?

I answered this earlier but I the once more. Every two legged man and woman alive and passed is proven by DNA to have a common female ancestor. The article I read said the World of Scientists hav been gracious and named her Eve. But to be perfectly truthful about this, all of us have a common ancestor than Adam and Eve, Noah and his wife had sons that bore children to replenish the earth meaning every white, black, brown, red and yellow man and woman are brother and sisters

I know you will agree that there is nothing like our God and He, it is, that created DNA and when He created the first people He placed a Gene in the DNA Sequence and only He can activate it when H knits us together in our mom's womb. There are still Giants being born today and every no and then they play Round Air Ball and play it well.

 

[calvin]

Not written by Enoch? I've never heard that. Where did you hear that? Enoch was a scribe of God.



Ok, fair enough. So...what do we do with Genesis 6:4 then? If it doesn't mean what it says...then what does it mean?

Do you believe that David killed a giant named Goliath?

Enoch was a scribe of God?? Did they have writing then?
I guess when you dig up a scroll that says it was the work of Enoch, then go dig up an older one that is shorter you begin to wonder how Enoch could pull off such a trick.

You ask what do we do with Gen 6:4? What would you like to do with it?
The first thing that should be done IMO is to establish what days are "Those days" Because that seems to establish the times of the first appearance of the Nephilim. (not necessarily the specific date)
I would like to know (if possible) when does the "and also afterwards" refer to?
Next I want to know exactly who were these "mighty men who were of old, the men of renown."
I'm not inclined to dive into a creek without first knowing how deep it is, or isn't.
So I want to study the info in the verse before diving into other scriptures.
I'm thinking that the 'those days' pre-date the 'sons of God' ie before Seth and Enosh gen 4:24. And then the 'and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man'. So we need to understand what the 'afterward' refers to. And I am noticing also that the daughters of 'man' is much more generic that the 'daughters of Seth' would imply.
Just another urban myth that needs to be buried.
But to continue, these Nephilim it seems predate Seth and have an ongoing presence.
The children born to the daughters of man seem to be quite inconsequential to the scheme of things other than the fact that these unions did produce offspring (normal human offspring).
The mighty men of old, the men of renown can't be the children...obviously so the only real contenders left standing in the ring would have to be the 'sons' of God, those men who are calling on the name of the Lord or the Nephilim.
But if the Nephilim, then they would be the men of renown, but they are men nevertheless
Now when God said He would destroy all flesh from the face of the land that would include all the big men (and women?).
The only way Nephilim could appear after the flood would be if they were the result of a genetic disorder such as 'giantism' nothing to do with fallen angels.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Ohh!!! Ok, Brother. What in the heck is it talking about then? Nephilim...What the heck is that if mere tall men had a family? Why call the kids Nephilim?

Because that is what they wanted to be called or maybe there was a popular fable where they, as youngsters salled the sgiants by that name. I do not know because I wasn't there but do know we must not add to nor subtract fom the scriptures.

 

[Edward]

That unclean spirits have possessed both men and women is not new, nor is it unsupported by Scripture. But I know of not one nano particle of evidence that angels/demons or unclean spirits have their own DNA. Nor is there any evidence to support the notion that an angel/demon cherub or any other spirit entity can change it's spots:
2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.Esv
Even the Satan can only disguise itself...it can not actually change to become or to have the genuine attributes of an angel of light. How much less could one of these cross the gulf of separation of 'kinds' established in the days of creation?
That is to say that angels do not have DNA, and they can not change what they are to acquire DNA in order to produce some weird hybrid.
Yes they can possess a man and cause him to mate with a woman, but it will be that man's DNA that will be deposited and his only....there being no other DNA available.

Maybe so Brother. I don't know. All I know is what I've read. there is no evidence (that I know of) of angel DNA. But even so, if IF, that happened...then the resulting DNA of the children, would not be fully human. You need 46 chromosons or something like that, 23 from the dad, 23 from the mom? Maybe.

I would not be too dead set against hybrid beings though. Scripture descibes some in heaven! So...we're going to see them or God is a liar. And He's not. It's in Revelation Brother. I'll look it up if you want me too...four faced being (Ox, Lion, Eagle and Man I think...) Yes.

 

[Edward]

Because that is what they wanted to be called or maybe there was a popular fable where they, as youngsters salled the sgiants by that name.

Really Brother?! Popular fable? Scripture?
I love you Brother, but...wow.

What about David and Goliath? Is that a fable too Brother? Really.

 

[Edward]

I would like to know (if possible) when does the "and also afterwards" refer to?

Now there's an excellent question. I don't think I can answer it conclusively. My feeling is, from all the talk and scritpure and...news reports like of those marines in the video in trashcanastan who supposedl killed a giant...gives me the idea...that and also after that...means now?

After all, we can go to Matthew 24...and Jesus talks about it. ...as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the time of the coming of the Son of man...Right? Maybe?

So when God said He would destroy all flesh from the face of the land that would include all the big men (and women?)
The only way Nephilim could appear after the flood would be if they were the result of a genetic disorder such as 'giantism'

You can't honestly say that conclusively. You don't know. I don't know. Maybe there is another way.

So that leaves the Nephilim, the giants or as one translation I stumbled on, the geriatrics. (In the Greek The word for giant is very similar to the word for geriatric)

When I did a word study on this awhile back, I learned that Nephilim means giants loosely (and they were giants) but the root word means "earth-born" ...