Bible Study The sons of God and daughters of men?

[brujaq]

Angels

When the sons of God assembled, were their sisters included according to Job when Satan also entered in with them ? Will Satan also enter in to our assemblies unaware ?

 

[JLB]

When the sons of God assembled, were their sisters included according to Job when Satan also entered in with them ? Will Satan also enter in to our assemblies unaware ?

Hey bro, I'm glad your here, and I welcome you to this Forum.

God bless you.


Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
Job 2:1-2


My position is these sons of God were angels.

I don't see the words sisters mentioned here.




JLB

 

[brujaq]

You're mistaken about quite a bit of that Brother. I have studied this for years and put some serious time into it, and I was not wanting to believe it, but forced myself to set aside preconceived notions and look with an open mind...and it makes sense. It agrees with all the other scriptures and does not just stand alone. It explains why the genocide, and why the flood was a blessing instead of the curse that many believe it was. God killed of the Nephilim in the flood, so that the seed of man could continue, so we could live.

Human copulation has never brought forth hybrids or giants. Noah's wife wasn't a giant. I've never heard that before, but it has to be a lie, designed to distract and confuse from the truth of the Nephilim. Although I did read in the book of Enoch that when Noah was born...he was glowing and praising God! It terrified everyone in the house, and so they went to grandpa Enoch and asked him, what is this? What does this mean? And Enoch told them, it's ok, He's an anointed one and gives glory to God...

I know all about Ron Wyatt. I've watched all those videos. I like them. I believe that he did find the ark. On one the vids, he said that he found the Ark, but had to go for the day, and when he came back, the cave was all swept out and the Ark and other temple furniture was all set up...and Angels were there. I guess a few days later (?) The Israeli authorities wanted to recover the Ark and bring it out...so sent six men to do so...and all six of them died. So the Ark is still in there and will not be revealed to the world until the Mark of the Beast is announced...is what I heard.

It was not Jobs sons who went before God, Brother. If you word study that out in Strong's or Vine's it says Bene Elohim. sons of God...Angels. Beings who were a direct creation by God. Like Angels. Adam was too being the first man. Eve was not for she was taken out of Adam. They were fallen angels in Job...and Satan came with them it says.

Scripture doesn't exactly say that Angels are sexless. It says in heaven, Angels are not given in marriage, so that's an honor thing to be good boys. Besides, I suspect that being in the very presence of the Almighty God and feeling His presence...is so much better than any sex on earth, that it will not be a problem or even something that males think about in heaven. (There wont be any sin there!)
And we see in scripture all over where Angels appeared to men as men, and even ate meals with them and stuff. So that debate point of Angels don't marry so can't copulate is a fairly weak debate point overall. If the Nephilim is not true...then there's confusion all over the scriptures and unanswered questions...but if Nephilim are true, then it explains so much in other scriptures and answers those questions!
It sheds light on the scriptures.

Not that I want that to be true, it angers me. Those are our women. But an open mind and deeper study about this and all the differing positions on it...the Angel view is the only view that makes sense.

Noah's Ark and the flood was not God's wrath to mankind for sin. He Loves Us!! It was a blessing I tell you! If He was so mad at us, then why did He send His only Son to die...that we may live?! Boom. That makes sense.

You see, Satan can't touch God...so he messes with God's creation. Satan learned through prophecy and stuff that Jesus would be born of a pure blood line, through the line of David...and he was trying to stop Jesus from being able to be born.

Thanks Edward, Yes I've seen Wyatts Ark of the Covenent also and loved it .. I was mostly talking about Noahs Ark . Yes , your POV is very popular but imo there were giants, nephillim and both then and after the flood . Men of reknown, Goliath had 4 brothers if I remember and they all came from Noah, we all do . Not trying to be disrespectful at all but like I mentioned before , the book of Enoch, the Talmud and all other writing except the God breathed and inspired scripture and can take a hike as far as I'm concerned. If you are right and I am wrong then I just haven't come to where you're at yet. I street witnessed and fasted/prayed for answers to questions that I would get on the streets, I've never went to invite people to this church or that,just Jesus and his gospel, I've gone by myself even to drug dealing houses on fri and sat nights to bring folks out, even alone to an outlaws motocycle gang clubhouse to preach Jesus to them . My learning is not denomination specific and I wouldn't know which I would belong to anyway . IMO The nephillim are men , giants or not but certainly not angelic/human hybrids . But I understand I'm on the less popular side .. Peace..

 

[brujaq]

Hey bro, I'm glad your here, and I welcome you to this Forum.

God bless you.


Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”
Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.”
Job 2:1-2


My position is these sons of God were angels.

I don't see the words sisters mentioned here.




JLB

Thanks JLB, I'm liking it here .. I factor in context of Job1:4 .. And Satan seeks whom he may devour but he does not enter Gods heaven,it's over

 

[calvin]

Nope. The verse says the Mephilim Giants were produced when the sons of God came into the daughters of men.

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Genesis 6:4

These Nephilim giants were produced as the offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men both before and after the flood.


JLB

Hello there JLB, calvin here.
You can copy paste all you like, you can bold/colour all you like
But at the end of the day nothing will or can change.........apparently.
Do you know that the ancient Hebrew, not only excluded the use of vowels, but also used no punctuation?
It is the lack of punctuation that IMO leaves us at the mercy of the the translator's beliefs.
The text you keep on quoting only says what you believe it says (probably) based partly on the punctuation supplied by the translators.
I would argue that the sense of the text in question plainly states that the Nephilim were there already when the sons of God married the daughters of men.
Look at the passage with punctuation removed.
the Nephilim were on the earth in those days and also afterward when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them these were the mighty men who were of old the men of renown
I think we would all agree that the "in those days" refers back to verses 1-2
( which probably refers back to ch 4, v24b.)
It seems clear enough that the Nephilim were there already at a time earlier that that being spoken of. They were likely there even before the birth of Seth.
To say that "the Nephilim were on the earth in those days" strongly suggests that they predated "those days" and therefore were not the offspring of the sons of God.
But the fact that it is said that they "were on the Earth" also suggests that perhaps they were themselves not of Earthly origin. we are told very little about Serephim, Cheribim but we do know that they are heavenly dwellers.
What about Nephilim? Might they also be heavenly dwellers?
Sons of God and daughters of men are not mentioned as being 'on the Earth' because they are/were indigenous so why state the obvious? But the Nephilim are specifically mentioned as being 'on the Earth' as though they were visitors from another place.
I believe that the natural flow of the text connects the children born, to "these were the mighty men who were of old the men of renown" (who the children grew up to be)
Note that they are men, not Nephilim, not some kind of hybrid freak.
Further, this declaration that the Nephilim were not of this Earth, suggests that the 'sons of God' were in contrast, natural dwellers of this Earth and not visitors from heaven or elsewhere. Or to put it another way, the sons of God are never said to be 'on the Earth' as is said of the Nephilim. Maybe they are what was later called demons, maybe, maybe not.
Maybe they are a special class of angel that left there abode, maybe, maybe not. The one thing that is or should be clear is that the 'sons of God' were human and not beings from elsewhere.
PS, as might be apparent, I'm interested in the word endings of im Sereph im Cherub im, Nephil im.

 

[brujaq]

Wasn't Cain afraid where ever he went someone would kill him ? I still think the Nephilim were men ,maybe from the line of Cain who became so nasty and godless that their reputation preceded them giant or not . It is not strange to me that Genesis gives a decent run down of Cain and his city, his sons and their accomplishments . Cain certainly knew of God and most of what Adam and Eve knew .

 

[JLB]

The one thing that is or should be clear is that the 'sons of God' were human and not beings from elsewhere.

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4


The offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men was Nephilim giants, and this occurred when the sons of God came into the daughters of men. We find no other offspring mentioned in the scriptures other than Nephilim giants, from this union between the sons of God and the daughters of men. That is the only offspring that the sons of God produced when the came into the daughters of men, which leads us to understand that there is only one conclusion in speculating that Noah was a "son of God", and that is, his offspring are Nephilim giants, and all of mankind after the flood are Nephilim giants, since all of mankind came from Noah after the flood.


I will say it again:

• there is only one conclusion in speculating that Noah was a "son of God", and that is, his offspring are Nephilim giants, and all of mankind after the flood are Nephilim giants, since all of mankind came from Noah after the flood.

The Hebrew perspective on this is clear and can be studied with the vast amount of material available about this subject.

I personally just stick to the scriptures and context.

However, I will post this for you since you can not show from the scriptures where Noah produced any Nephilim giants after the flood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_God#Hebrew_Bible


Hebrew Bible
In the Hebrew Bible, the phrase "sons of the Elohim" occurs in:

• Genesis 6:2 bənê hāʼĕlōhîm (בְנֵי־הָֽאֱלֹהִים) the sons of Elohim.[2][citation needed]
• Job 1:6 bənê hāʼĕlōhîm (בְּנֵי הָאֱלֹהִים) the sons of Elohim.[3][citation needed]
• Job 2:1 bənê hāʼĕlōhîm (בְּנֵי הָאֱלֹהִים) the sons of Elohim.
• Job 38:7 bənê ĕlōhîm (בְּנֵי אֱלֹהִֽים) without the definite article - sons of Elohim[citation needed]
• Deuteronomy 32:8 both bənê ĕlōhîm (בְּנֵי הָאֱלֹהִים) and bənê ĕl (בני אל) the sons of Elohim or sons of El in two Dead Sea Scrolls (4QDtj and 4QDtq); mostly "angels of God" (αγγελων θεου) in the LXX (sometimes "sons of God" or "sons of Israel"); "sons of Israel" in the MT.[4][5]:147[6]

Closely related phrases include:

• Psalms 29:1 bənê ēlîm (בְּנֵי אֵלִים) without the definite article - sons of elim (a similar expression).[citation needed]
• Psalms 89:6 bənê ēlîm (בְּנֵי אֵלִים) - sons of elim
• A closely related Aramaic expression occurs in Daniel 3:25: bar elahin - בַר אֱלָהִֽין - son of the gods.

Arguably, all of these biblical texts refer to angels or heavenly beings.



JLB

 

[Randy]

I hasn't escaped my notice the writer had this emphasis "daughters of MEN" why the importance for this distinction "men"? That strengthens that the "Son's of God" were not referring to mankind in what I see about that passage. The event happened in ancient times ,(the distant past), and has been obscured by time.

IN rev 12:5 NIV speaks of events of the past,(at the time it was given), so the war in heaven can also be viewed as in the past as well in that chapter. The lords own witness also implies past from the time HE gave His testimony LUKe 10:18 NIV He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. AND Rev 12:9 states both SATAN and his angels were hurled to the earth to together.

 

[JLB]

I hasn't escaped my notice the writer had this emphasis "daughters of MEN"

That phrase alone should end any dispute on this subject to those who are sincere bible students.

It's difficult for me to imagine how anyone can conclude that sons of God refers to men.



JLB

 

[calvin]

It's difficult for me to imagine how anyone can conclude that sons of God refers to men.

Obviously
Angels don't have gender.
Angels were not created with the ability to procreate.
Angels can not recreate themselves.

 

[JLB]

Obviously
Angels don't have gender.
Angels were not created with the ability to procreate.
Angels can not recreate themselves.

More opinion, without scripture.

Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground. 2 And he said, “Here now, my lords, please turn in to your servant’s house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way.”

And they said, “No, but we will spend the night in the open square.”

3 But he insisted strongly; so they turned in to him and entered his house. Then he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.

4 Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house. 5 And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally.”

6 So Lot went out to them through the doorway, shut the door behind him, 7 and said, “Please, my brethren, do not do so wickedly! 8 See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.” Genesis 19:1-7


What gender does the scriptures teach, that these angels who manifested themselves to be seen by those on earth, were?

Men or women?



JLB

 

[Runner]

Dr. Michael S. Heiser (http://drmsh.com/), who is both a Christian and a serious Hebrew scholar, has written a fascinating book dealing with the Nephilim and the entire OT understanding of the heavenly realm: The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview, https://www.amazon.com/Unseen-Realm...qid=1465091510&sr=8-1&keywords=michael+heiser.

I have read it, and it is indeed fascinating. There is also a somewhat less scholarly version, Supernatural: What the Bible Teaches About the Unseen World - and Why It Matters, https://www.amazon.com/Supernatural...qid=1465091510&sr=8-2&keywords=michael+heiser, which I have not read (but nothing about The Unseen Realm struck me as "too scholarly" for average readers).

From Dr. Heiser's resume:

Ph.D. (2004), University of Wisconsin-Madison, Madison, WI; Department of Hebrew and Semitic Studies; minor in Classical Studies. My dissertation was entitled, “The Divine Council in Late Canonical and Non-Canonical Second Temple Jewish Literature.” The dissertation involved exegesis primarily in the Pentateuch, Wisdom Literature, and Isaiah, but also dealt at length with Israelite Religion (all stages) and Second Temple texts.

Scholar-in-Residence, Logos Bible Software, Bellingham, WA. Logos is the leading creator of software for research in the original languages of the Bible and digital library collections for biblical studies. I am currently responsible for reviewing academic content and creating digital tools for classroom use or independent learners.​

 

[JLB]

Obviously
Angels don't have gender.
Angels were not created with the ability to procreate.
Angels can not recreate themselves.

Do you have any scripture that shows us the offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men were anything other than Nephilim giants?

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4


The only offspring I have found in scripture, that were produced by the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants.

• There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men

This scripture teaches us the only offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men.



JLB

 

[brujaq]

Was Adam considered a son of God ?

 

[calvin]

Do you have any scripture that shows us the offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men were anything other than Nephilim giants?

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4


The only offspring I have found in scripture, that were produced by the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants.

• There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men

This scripture teaches us the only offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men.



JLB

You have been shown oodles of times, but you seem to be blind to the truth.Gen 6:4 does not even read that the Nephilim were the offspring of anybody.
Get it? nobody.
What it does say is that the Nephilim/giants were on the Earth in those days. I'll paste it again for you..were on the Earth in those days.
If the text said there were Martians on the Earth in those days, would you believe that the Martians were the offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men? I think not, and if you can answer no , then you must come to agree that the Nephilim/Giants were 'on the Earth in those days'
ie they were already there, they preceded the days when...

 

[calvin]

More opinion, without scripture.

Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground. 2 And he said, “Here now, my lords, please turn in to your servant’s house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way.”

And they said, “No, but we will spend the night in the open square.”

3 But he insisted strongly; so they turned in to him and entered his house. Then he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.

4 Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house. 5 And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally.”

6 So Lot went out to them through the doorway, shut the door behind him, 7 and said, “Please, my brethren, do not do so wickedly! 8 See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.” Genesis 19:1-7


What gender does the scriptures teach, that these angels who manifested themselves to be seen by those on earth, were?

Men or women?



JLB

Surprisingly enough, none.
Why?
You need male and female to have gender. Show Scripture that teaches us that there are girl angels.
Dan 8:15 When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it. And behold, there stood before me one having the appearance of a man.Dan 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the Ulai, and it called, “Gabriel, make this man understand the vision.”
Question: Where was Daniel when he experienced this vision? Was he in heaven or was he at Shusham in the province of Elam?
The one with a man's voice, and the one with the appearance of a man, man or angel?

 

[calvin]

Hello there JLB, calvin here.
We can't have gender without both male and female.
Show us scripture that teaches that there are girl angels.

Since you can't, and since you have nothing new to add to this study, all you can do is post ch6 V4 over again, I am calling it a night on this one.
Thanks for your participation.

 

[JLB]

Hello there JLB, calvin here.
We can't have gender without both male and female.

Who says we can't have gender without male and female?

Please provide scripture for your claim.

Which one of the Godhead is female, since the Father is a male gender designation, and the Son is a male gender designation.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Hello there JLB, calvin here.
We can't have gender without both male and female.
Show us scripture that teaches that there are girl angels.

Since you can't, and since you have nothing new to add to this study, all you can do is post ch6 V4 over again, I am calling it a night on this one.
Thanks for your participation.

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4


The only offspring I have found in scripture, that were produced by the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants.

• There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men

This scripture teaches us the only offspring of the sons of God and daughters of men were Nephilim giants, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men.

You have been shown oodles of times, but you seem to be blind to the truth.Gen 6:4 does not even read that the Nephilim were the offspring of anybody.
Get it? nobody.

The offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men were Nephilim [giants; English]


There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:4




JLB

 

[calvin]

Who says we can't have gender without male and female?

Please provide scripture for your claim.

Which one of the Godhead is female, since the Father is a male gender designation, and the Son is a male gender designation.



JLB

Seriously???
How many Gods do you think there are?
Deu 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
Mar 12:29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
You can't or at least you shouldn't try to teach gender issues using the triune Godhead as any sort of teaching example.