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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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The Soul at Death
- Thread starter n2thelight
- Start date
n2thelight
Member
welcome to modern gnosticism. if God wanted us to be in heaven why then did he create adam and eve for the earth? heaven is temporary place for us then we will be raised up and given perfect bodies.
What you fail to realize is the fact that God created this earth for us before we were made flesh,had satan not rebelled we would never had been made into flesh bodies...
Nowhere did I say,only sinners shall be left on the earth,let me see if I can help you out....
Those who have died are now in heaven...At the 7th trump Christ returns and we shall all be changed,in that instant,the saints that have already died before the 7th trump shall return with Christ,it's that simple
These souls below are with the Father,at the throne
Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"
Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord [Master], holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."
Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
These are the same one's along with the rest that were killed as per the above verses...All return with Christ
Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."
I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."
The Kingdom of God is where ever Christ is; and at the seventh trump Christ will be on earth with the saints, and setting up his 1000 year millennium kingdom. No flesh and blood body can exist in that kingdom.
As for my openning statement,let me show you where we were when God created this earth....
Job 38:4-7 (God speaking to Job)
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (KJV)
If you don't understand the beginning,it's almost certain that you won't understand the end
This teaching is error and contradictory to Scripture.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. (ESV)
Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the LORD. (ESV)
Clearly, "sons of God" refers to creatures other than humans, most likely angels. Men never existed prior to be created on this earth.
n2thelight
Member
Like I said,if you don't understand the beginning you won't understand the end....
Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him That calleth;"
Then when the twins, Jacob and Esau were still in their mother's womb, neither having had the chance of doing either good or evil, God called one of those unborn babies to service. This deals with the election according to the purpose of God in His Will. The reason was to accomplish the writings of these Scriptures. It wasn't an accident that Jacob was loved and Esau was hated, nor was it an accident that you saw the light and repented. God has His hand on all creation and all of His children. God intercedes in the lives of His children, and there are no accidents when it comes to the actions of God.
Romans 9:13 "As it is written "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."
It was written by the Prophet Malachi in Malachi 1:2, 3;"I have loved you, saith the Lord Yet ye say, `Wherein hast Thou loved us?' Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,""And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains [nations] and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness."
While Esau was a small embryo in his mother Rebecca's womb, God hated Esau. If it sounds a little bit unfair, then you missed the point of the entire eighth chapter where God stipulated where He foreknew those that overcame at Satan's rebellion in the first earth age. Don't you think that God is judge enough to know who to hate and who to love.
Ephesians 1:4 "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:"
"Before the foundation of the world", [cosmos in the Greek, meaning world or earth age.] The "foundation" in the Greek text, is the verb for, "the overthrow". This refers to something that happened in that first earth age, before the overthrow of Satan and his angels that followed him. When Satan fell [war against God], one third of all angelic beings [God's children] followed Satan. Then during that war, there were some who fought against Satan, and those who did, God calls "His Chosen". They took a stand, and were overcomers in that first earth age.....
jasoncran
Member
ah yes mr.murrayism at its finest. or mormonism. you deny the later yet that is what mormonism teaches we were in heaven first then sent to the earth as a test.
sorry, nope, i dont buy it. all return with christ? really so that just refuted your point we wont be in heaven forever!
uh the millenial reign is on the earth as you forgot this(satan is in heaven with christ yet bound in the abyss?)
revalation 20
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
hmm fire came down from heaven.interesting.
Drew
Member
Is this a serious question?
Drew
Member
I see no evidence at all for this position in the scriptures.
n2thelight
Member
Job
38
1Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
n2thelight
Member
satan is in heaven now,he gets kicked out at the 6th trump,this is when he will pretend to be Christ.When Christ comes at the 7th trump,satan will be bound for the 1000 years....
Call it what you want and I could care less what mormons teach...We didn't come to earth for a test,we lived here after it was created for us,however we were not in flesh bodies at that time.....
The full Godhead does not come down till after the 1000 years......
Is the soul immortal? Not acording to many scriptures: The word translated "soul" is from "nephesh" in Hebrew; and "psuche" in Greek.
Lev. 19:28 "You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead (soul--Hebrew)."
24:17 "And he that killeth any man (soul) shall surely be put to death."
Num. 23:10 "Let me (my soul) die the death of the righteous."
Eze. 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins shall die."
Lev. 23:30 "And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, that same soul will I destroy from among his people." See also 1 Ki. 19:10; Psa. 31:13; Prov. 1:19; Eze. 22:27; 33:6 Acts 3:23.
Only one is immortal, even Christ Jesus: Tim. 6:15-16 "...this will be made manifest at the proper time by the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality..."
Lev. 19:28 "You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead (soul--Hebrew)."
24:17 "And he that killeth any man (soul) shall surely be put to death."
Num. 23:10 "Let me (my soul) die the death of the righteous."
Eze. 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins shall die."
Lev. 23:30 "And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, that same soul will I destroy from among his people." See also 1 Ki. 19:10; Psa. 31:13; Prov. 1:19; Eze. 22:27; 33:6 Acts 3:23.
Only one is immortal, even Christ Jesus: Tim. 6:15-16 "...this will be made manifest at the proper time by the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality..."
As to the "spirit of man" being "that part of man which never dies", let us look to the Scriptures for truth.
"Spirit" is from "ruach" in Hebrew, and "pneuma" in Greek
Concerning the meaning of "spirit", it is decuced from its usage. The one root idea running through all the passages is: INVISIBLE FORCE, ENERGY, POWER.
Man's spirit may be defined as his life force, and is related to breath:
Gen. 6:17 "I am going to bring flood waters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it."
7:22 "All in whose nostrils was the breath (neshamah--Heb.) of the spirit (ruach) of life, of all that was on the dry land died."
Job 12:10 "In His hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind."
34:14-15 "If it were His intention and He withdrew his spirit and breath, all mankind would perish together and man would return to dust."
God is forming the spirit of man within him: Zech. 12:1 "The burden of a word of Jehovah on Israel. An affirmation of Jehovah, Stretching out heaven, and founding earth, And forming the spirit of man in his midst." YLT.
And this is being done even as we breathe. When we die, we expire, breathe no more, and the gift of God's creative spirit returns to him.
Our spirit is not some part of us that is immortal, it is our life force that ceases when we die.
"Spirit" is from "ruach" in Hebrew, and "pneuma" in Greek
Concerning the meaning of "spirit", it is decuced from its usage. The one root idea running through all the passages is: INVISIBLE FORCE, ENERGY, POWER.
Man's spirit may be defined as his life force, and is related to breath:
Gen. 6:17 "I am going to bring flood waters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it."
7:22 "All in whose nostrils was the breath (neshamah--Heb.) of the spirit (ruach) of life, of all that was on the dry land died."
Job 12:10 "In His hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind."
34:14-15 "If it were His intention and He withdrew his spirit and breath, all mankind would perish together and man would return to dust."
God is forming the spirit of man within him: Zech. 12:1 "The burden of a word of Jehovah on Israel. An affirmation of Jehovah, Stretching out heaven, and founding earth, And forming the spirit of man in his midst." YLT.
And this is being done even as we breathe. When we die, we expire, breathe no more, and the gift of God's creative spirit returns to him.
Our spirit is not some part of us that is immortal, it is our life force that ceases when we die.
E
Elijah674
Guest
Eccl. 3:19-20 is good also! Good post material!
--Elijah
PS:
Eccl. 3
[19] For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
[20] All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
--Elijah
PS:
Eccl. 3
[19] For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
[20] All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
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