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The Spirit of Truth

Hi there ezrider, Wow! I don't think I've ever read a document like this one of yours. I wish that I could agree with you, but I can't because I don't really understand your mindset when you posted it. The part that I really questioned was this: "When you claim that through the Bible the Holy Spirit teaches you about a coming antichrist character that you must warn everyone about, then you have been feeding on the fruit that comes from the tree of knowledge; and the last piece of fruit that tree will ever bear will be the knowledge that you, yourself are the antichrist, and the man of sin spoken of in 2 Thes 2:3."

I'm sorry but I'm confused as to why you would make such a statement. I certainly hope you're all right. You and I have swapped some good theology, and I consider you a good spiritual friend. I love you my Brother, and if you need to converse privately, start a SAC with me.

Thank you for your concerns Chopper, they are appreciated and received with thanks, but I am quite fine. I can understand why you might feel confused as to what I wrote because it is the hardest thing for us to accept about ourselves. But when we strip away the doctrines of men and all that we think that we know or understand concerning the scriptures, and see it in its simplest of forms, then it really is not so hard to understand.

After all, what is the basic teaching of the scriptures that is throughout the Christian church communities? Is it not that we are born a sinner? Because of the disobedience of one man who ate from the tree of knowledge and thereby sin and death entered the world. And because of the act of this one man we are all born into the world sinners in need of salvation; born into the world a man of sin who's only hope for salvation resides in Christ Jesus. The very teaching of the church and my need for salvation make it quite easy to then to see myself as the man of sin referred to in 2 Thes 2:3.

When we eat from the tree of knowledge; or learn of good and evil as we find it within the Law and the Prophets, then we have a natural tendency to take that knowledge and begin accusing and condemning others for falling short. making ourselves a judge of what is right and wrong, and setting ourselves up above the Lord. By our knowledge of sin, we find it easy to see the faults in another, but Jesus told us that we must first remove the spec that is in our own eye.

By the knowledge of the Law we confess that we are sinners redeemed by the Blood of Christ? Why then is so difficult to accept that we are a man of sin as born after the flesh?
 
Because you said this:
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I would just like to know who these other gods are. Simple request.
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not gonna bite.
 
Is it not written in you scripture that ye are gods? I believe Jesus quoted that very scripture somewhere in the gospels.

People can make gods of many different things. And as we can see from the comments above, they can even make the Bible their god. They look to Satan as a God or rather a false god who desires to be worshiped as God, and then they spend there efforts trying to know everything about him so they will know him when they see him. When they look to interpret prophecy for themselves, they do so looking for an antichrist under every stone.
psalm 82, that is the reference to the idea that jewish Sanhedrin were appointed to judge men for the evil they did and too also show mercy and also hear the plight of the poor. the word gods is a lower case, its not the use of the Name there.
 

So then how do we gain faith? When I read my Bible it tells me,


So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Rom 10:17

The Faith I speak of does not come from the Bible, it is a Gift from the Lord. And the only way that I have found to gain more faith, is to begin exercising what small measure of Faith has given to me.

If I understand you correctly, since you don't trust/read/believe your Bible any more then how are you receiving your faith? Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding what you have said.

Sadly you and most others have seriously misunderstood what I have said or have given your own meaning to what I have said, but I value the Bible very much. I do read it and I do believe its words, and I often quote or reference the scriptures in many of my posts. But trust is all together an entirely different issue, and in what manner that trust is issued or applied.

I have made the statement that the Bible is no longer the source of Knowledge for me, and this has caused many to automatically assume that I have cast aside the Bible or have disregarded the scriptures, which couldn't be any further from the truth. When I said that the Bible is no longer the source of Knowledge for me, I am telling you then that I seek after the understanding and knowledge that comes from Spirit of the Lord, not the words of a book. I do not worship the words of a book, nor do I seek mine own understanding from it. But I do not discount it nor do I disbelieve it. But like I said in the OP, what matters is how you approach it.

On the one hand you have the pharisee who takes his own knowledge and his own interpretation of the Bible and declares it to be the Word of God. And they uphold the Bible as their highest authority, rejecting even the Spirit of truth.
But on the other hand you have the Bereans, who first heard the word and believed it, and then searched the scripture daily to see if those things which they had heard were true.

The one takes the knowledge from the Bible for himself and then sets himself up as judge, but for other, the Bible was a second witness to confirm what they had first believed through Faith. I do not read or study the Bible so that I can gain knowledge for myself, but I do find at times it grants me more understanding. I said in the OP that the fruit from the words in the scripture can be both satisfying and nourishing to the soul. When I read the Bible, I see the story of a people and their relationship with their God. I see a story of love, a story of life and death, of wrath and of grace and mercy. There is much to learn from their stories. When I read the Bible, I see an innumerable cloud of witnesses that confirm in me their testimony.
 
The Faith I speak of does not come from the Bible, it is a Gift from the Lord. And the only way that I have found to gain more faith, is to begin exercising what small measure of Faith has given to me.



Sadly you and most others have seriously misunderstood what I have said or have given your own meaning to what I have said, but I value the Bible very much. I do read it and I do believe its words, and I often quote or reference the scriptures in many of my posts. But trust is all together an entirely different issue, and in what manner that trust is issued or applied.

I have made the statement that the Bible is no longer the source of Knowledge for me, and this has caused many to automatically assume that I have cast aside the Bible or have disregarded the scriptures, which couldn't be any further from the truth. When I said that the Bible is no longer the source of Knowledge for me, I am telling you then that I seek after the understanding and knowledge that comes from Spirit of the Lord, not the words of a book. I do not worship the words of a book, nor do I seek mine own understanding from it. But I do not discount it nor do I disbelieve it. But like I said in the OP, what matters is how you approach it.

On the one hand you have the pharisee who takes his own knowledge and his own interpretation of the Bible and declares it to be the Word of God. And they uphold the Bible as their highest authority, rejecting even the Spirit of truth.
But on the other hand you have the Bereans, who first heard the word and believed it, and then searched the scripture daily to see if those things which they had heard were true.

The one takes the knowledge from the Bible for himself and then sets himself up as judge, but for other, the Bible was a second witness to confirm what they had first believed through Faith. I do not read or study the Bible so that I can gain knowledge for myself, but I do find at times it grants me more understanding. I said in the OP that the fruit from the words in the scripture can be both satisfying and nourishing to the soul. When I read the Bible, I see the story of a people and their relationship with their God. I see a story of love, a story of life and death, of wrath and of grace and mercy. There is much to learn from their stories. When I read the Bible, I see an innumerable cloud of witnesses that confirm in me their testimony.

Faith comes by hearing God.
 
Sadly you and most others have seriously misunderstood what I have said or have given your own meaning to what I have said, but I value the Bible very much. I do read it and I do believe its words, and I often quote or reference the scriptures in many of my posts. But trust is all together an entirely different issue, and in what manner that trust is issued or applied.

I have made the statement that the Bible is no longer the source of Knowledge for me, and this has caused many to automatically assume that I have cast aside the Bible or have disregarded the scriptures, which couldn't be any further from the truth. When I said that the Bible is no longer the source of Knowledge for me, I am telling you then that I seek after the understanding and knowledge that comes from Spirit of the Lord, not the words of a book. I do not worship the words of a book, nor do I seek mine own understanding from it. But I do not discount it nor do I disbelieve it. But like I said in the OP, what matters is how you approach it.

The Spirit and the Word always agree entirely.

The faults obviously reside within the readers, which is part of the Spiritual conveyance of fact from the Word as well. Heb. 4:12.

The Word teaches us that the Word is active and living. So does the Spirit teach.

The Word is often purposefully constructed to obscure matters, allowing us or perhaps even baiting us to fill in the blanks OR to search for deeper or more legitimate avenues of understandings. And that is part of the fun anyway.
 
Faith comes by hearing God.

Really JLB, is that all you have to offer? Is that the extent of your wisdom? As if I have never read or heard that scripture before. But then again, you couldn't even get that one right. After all the scripture say that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. You seem to be missing a pretty important piece there.

But there is another scripture that says I speak to them in parables so that hearing they shall not hear and seeing that shall not perceive.

Jesus said My sheep hear my voice.

How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words.

And again, If they hear not Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though on rose from the dead.

Repeatedly Jesus said he who hath an ear, let him hear what the spirit saith.

You may choose to worship a book for your god. I choose to worship the author of that book. But maybe you can help. I appear to have some pages that are missing from my Bible. I can't seem to find the passages that tell me that Abraham read his Bible and believed, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness. Oh wait, the Bible didn't exist in the time of Abraham.
 
You may choose to worship a book for your god. I choose to worship the author of that book. But maybe you can help. I appear to have some pages that are missing from my Bible. I can't seem to find the passages that tell me that Abraham read his Bible and believed, and it was accounted unto him for righteousness. Oh wait, the Bible didn't exist in the time of Abraham.

Again, I'd suggest not to depart the written Word on these matters as it DOES lead to blank space in understandings:

Galatians 3:8
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
 
First of all, that is only one aspect of the testimony of the Holy Spirit. In Jn 14:26 "He shall teach you ALL things and bring ALL things to your remembrance". In Jn 16:8 "He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment". And in Jn 16:13 "He will guide you into ALL TRUTH".

Lets be fair and at least see the scripture for what it actually said.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.
 
And brother, I really don't understand where you are coming from in saying this,

"I have had my fill of the fruit from the tree of Bible knowledge, and its fruit has soured in my stomach, so that its fruit, the fruit of knowledge is no longer desirable to me. I can no longer study the Bible and take its fruit as the source of Knowledge."

...care to explain?

Karl, you asked for an explanation, and I told you I would try to explain. It is really something that belongs in the testimonial forum, but I will try and share with you the short of it. Consider it as my metaphorical Damascus road conversion.

I used to love studying the Bible. I would study it daily for hours, always trying to know and understand everything I could. I would use the concordances to find all the meanings of a word so that I could determine its translation. And I believed it was the Holy Spirit in whom I trusted that was teaching me, and I trusted my own understanding. But then one day in my quest to seek out the deeper things hidden away in the Bible, the words of the Bible seemed to take on an entirely different meaning. What I believed a scripture to say a day before said something entirely different the next. It came on sudden and overwhelmed me, and I began to doubt anything and everything that I though I knew or ever understood. I had lost my faith, and I doubted my very salvation, and thought at that moment surely I was a son going into perdition. In my sudden despair and loss of a hope I cried to the Lord. I heard one thought within my mind: Return to your first Love.

So to this thought I stopped and considered: return to your first Love? So I opened the Bible once again to read the words of Jesus, just as plain and simple as the words appeared on the page, and I felt comforted and put at peace. I felt led of the Spirit as I saw scriptures in the Law and the Prophets that testified to me of Christ. And suddenly I felt a different kind of faith grow in me, and of no faith that I knew before. It was a simple abiding Faith in the knowledge of the Spirit of Christ within me. I didn’t know what to make of it, so I looked back upon the whole experience with a different self awareness. I wondered what had happened to me, and I thought upon it intently.

And I saw that I thought of myself to be a man of God, and a warrior for Christ. I was dressed in my gospel amor having the security that I was protected. I was studying the Bible deeply and intently to show myself approved. I thought of myself as one of God’s elect, until my knowledge betrayed me and I lost all faith. I no longer held any truth, and I doubted my very salvation. And then I considered and saw how my faith was based upon my own understanding and the knowledge that I had consumed. And I saw piece by piece my gospel armor stripped away. My helmet of Salvation was gone, my shield of faith was lost, and nothing to say for my breastplate. Instead of shoes of the gospel, I wore boots of destruction. Everything I held was stripped away and I stood there naked before the Lord. And when I had cried out, I had asked why he had waited so long to show His Love and mercy to the world; then I was shown Christ in the Law and prophets. And I saw that Christ is my Truth, He is my Faith and my Salvation. Christ is my Righteousness, and He is the Spirit of the Word of God. And Christ is the message of the Gospel. And when I considered this, I saw how every piece of clothing I wore was stripped away until I was left naked and vulnerable; but then I understood that I had been clothed with a new garment that was not made of many pieces, but of one; and that piece was Christ. I had found my pearl of great price.
 
This will be the final post for this thread, and then I will ask a moderator to close it. I asked a very serious question about what we think the Holy Spirit teaches us. It is still a very important topic, and there are many scriptures to be discussed, but the way this thread has gone, I fear any genuine discussion will not be taken seriously, so I will take up the topic again in a new thread for those who have the honest courage to question their own theology and beliefs.

And while I might hope for an honest and mature conversation, I do not expect it. In most every thread on this forum, there are those that like to mock someone else’s beliefs or opinion by throwing out scripture references with the intent of muddling and bringing confusion the thread for their own amusement. Then there are those that think of themselves more highly than they should, professing themselves to wise in the knowledge of the Scripture, claiming they are an authority as to what it means, thus demonstrating their own folly. And then there are those who post a scripture reference in the thread as if they are saying something themselves, when they are not. But I am hopeful.

This thread has become too much of a topic about me and I am more guilty than anyone for making it so; But I’m afraid most of you have missed the real point. You have questioned what kind of doctrine is this that I write? Why don’t I believe in the Bible? and other sorts of innuendo that have been found in your replies.

Yet none of you, and I would guess not one, actually took the time to truly read what I wrote and give it any meaningful thought what so ever; instead you immediately stood in judgement of what I said and rejected it without even giving it a second thought because it did not meet with your Biblical approval or sound like any scripture that you had heard before. And in doing so you missed out on the entire metaphor. Malachi seemed to get a little agitated at my use of the tree of knowledge so often, but the tree of knowledge is the story of the downfall of man. It is one of the principle stories of the Bible and our need for salvation in Christ. It is the temptation to acquire knowledge with the promise that they would be as Gods judging between good and evil. The enemy perpetuates the same lie today using the Bible, tempting you with knowledge and a promise, declaring to you that if you know and follow the commandments and walk upright and obedient before the Lord, then you shall be as the son’s of God judging between good and evil.

Then as the story goes, they were cast forth from the garden and the way was shut that they could not again return to the tree of life (though it does not say that they were barred from the tree of knowledge). And then we have the story of mankind going forth under the shadow of death. The Bible gives us the knowledge of this death through sin, and exposes our need for salvation.

But the Bible also calls us to a greater Faith, in which I reference the tree of Life. For the Promise of God through Christ was that the way to the tree of Life was made open once again through Faith in His Son. And we do find the tree of life mentioned three times within the book of Revelation. Using the analogy of the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge is quite fitting actually when trying to suggest the questioning of our own beliefs and how much trust we should put in our own knowledge.

Like that which was said of the tree of knowledge in the garden of Eden, your responses about the Bible say the same thing; it is a fruit to be desired, one that will make you wise so you can judge between right and wrong. And while you continue to partake of this fruit, you will remain a man of sin, barred from the tree of life, calling yourself a son of god, disguising yourself with obedience, self-righteousness and Hope.

What do you call a metaphor when it becomes reality. Oh, that right, irony. Jesus spoke in parables because they seeing see not; and in hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And again saying I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

I have only offered you the opportunity to consider and probe your own beliefs and thoughts, to look into your own motivations for gaining Bible Knowledge, and to question what you think the Spirit of truth instructs you based upon the scripture from John 15:26. But you have not even bothered to consider the allegory of the trees of the garden; you have judged it as some strange doctrine and then cast it aside without giving it a single thought.

It has been repeated a number of times within some of your responses. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. But how shall you ever hear the word of God, when you sit in judgement over it?

Holding up the knowledge of their Bibles, they sit in the temple of God, showing themselves they are God, even judging and rejecting the Spirit of Truth.
 
I am not one who is going to get caught trying to debate or respond to all of your individual comments, so please do not expect that.
Not to change the subject, but this is one of the most important things God has taught me. The bible tells you not to cause strife. And preferably don't hang around those that do if you can avoid it. When we get angry in debate we "give place to the devil". It is my belief Satan can then use that place to bring us low. A low that simply doesnt occur if we control our anger and passions the way the bible tells us to do.
 
I am not one who is going to get caught trying to debate or respond to all of your individual comments, so please do not expect that. But I will make some general comments on what I have read from your comments when I can. But I must make a comment concerning the following quotes found within your replies:





I do not need to read the Bible or quote a certain scripture to understand that both of you by the very words you have written have declared that the Bible is your god. By the very words that you have written you have diminished the power and significance of the work of the Holy Spirit in forming the union within our spirit that the exists between the Father and the Son, that we might become a Son formed in the image of Christ. Your words declare to me that you have confined the power of the Lord God Almighty who created the heavens and the earth to the words found on the pages of a Book.

That to me is truly sad; for you have declared that the Bible is you God. You have made an idol out of it and then ascribe the power of the Lord and His Spirit to the words of a book. But you have your Bible and I am sure you probably know right where to quote it from. Maybe you would you like to remind me what the Bible tells us about making and worshiping idols as our gods, or having other gods before Him. And then what does the Bible tell you to do when you have been discovered in such a practice?

Please forgive me if this seem personal in any way; It is not intended to be so. I do not know either of you or your walk with the Lord, but I can rest assured that you are in the Lord's hands. I am only commenting on the words that you have written that appear to tell me that you hold up the Bible as your God, and your marriage union is with a Book.
<LIKE>
 
This discussion concerns what we think the Holy Spirit teaches us. Just because it is something we think we have found in the scriptures, should we attribute everything we think we understand from the scriptures as something that the Holy Spirit has taught us?

Certainly. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Since you bring up this scripture in defense of your beliefs, and since I am in agreement with you that all scriptures is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, let me ask you a question? The tree of the Knowledge of good and evil that stood in the midst of the Garden of Eden, from whence does if come forth? Is it a tree of God or a tree of the enemy?
 
ezrider said:
This discussion concerns what we think the Holy Spirit teaches us. Just because it is something we think we have found in the scriptures, should we attribute everything we think we understand from the scriptures as something that the Holy Spirit has taught us?

Malachi said:
Certainly. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.​

Since you bring up this scripture in defense of your beliefs, and since I am in agreement with you that all scriptures is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, let me ask you a question? The tree of the Knowledge of good and evil that stood in the midst of the Garden of Eden, from whence does if come forth? Is it a tree of God or a tree of the enemy?

The above should consider that we all see in part. Therefore all doctrine is constructed on a partial/part basis. It's never perfect by reason of the people that engage.

Doctrine are matters that we continue to 'labor' in.

1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

We labor in doctrine because of our partial sight. When we bow to that fact first, we begin to see more. One of the first things seen is our own darkened sight, and we rightfully are led to question why that is from the scriptures.
 
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