[_ Old Earth _] The surprising logical minds of babies

[turnorburn]

As I said, science doesn't do that. But of course we can know the origins of various things, because of the way He created them. Birds, for example.



Sorry, time, as we think of it, didn't exist then. Only after. Have you read "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe." C.S. Lewis explained the difference between God and a creature by comparing Aslan to the Witch. She understood, he wrote, the magic at the beginning, but not the deep magic just before the beginning. That's the best we'll ever be able to do with science.



That's good. Science is inductive. Deductive reasoning is when we have all the rules in front of us, and figure out the particulars from the rules. Science observes the particulars and figures out the rules.



The argument that we can't know anything, unless we know everything, has never been a very good one.

Lets take birds for example Jesus spoke them into existence on day 5..

Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

tob

 

[Edward]

Interesting thought, Edward. But we are in the 'Christianity and Science' forum where the only possible discussion is evolutionary.

 

[Edward]

Perhaps you, like me, enjoy learning terms. Terms such as the "Vygotskian hypothesis".
If so, you may also enjoy reading this article about Dichotomistic Logic and the feral, bifold mind.

Wow, that was some tale, about Victor. That situation teaches us alot. Human beings are social creatures for one thing. We need to be around other humans. We need...(The) Word(s) from a very young age. There's an age where babies simply soak information up like a sponge, from birth to around 6 years old. These are veeery important years. Personality forming years. What babies learn during this time sticks with them. One could sit them in front of the tv/video game, or one could take them outside and do something. (I put guns in my kids hands at this age!)

It also seems like there's an age where it becomes hard to teach them new things. Either it didn't say how old Victor was or I missed it. I got the impression that he was a teenager when they first caught him, soo, I think that kind of emphasizes how important the young years are.

The story of Victor also emphasizes that we need God. BUT!...in the beginning was the Word, and He just loved to walk and talk with Adam (us)! So He was on top of it, Praise the Lord for that! It occurs to me that small children should be taught to pray, and the authority that they have through the name of Jesus Christ! How many times have you heard of a child saying, mommy, there's a monster in my closet/under my bed? I bet you a dollar some of those are true, and people (have been conditioned to) poo-poo it, it's just your imagination, go to sleep...No. The child hasn't been indoctrinated yet and taught to fear them. Kids have strong spirits at that age and if they knew that they had authority over (spirits & demons) monsters, they would use it Brother! Yeah!

I'll read the next story here pretty quick...

 

[Barbarian]

Dichotomistic Logic

and the feral, bifold mind.

What about the origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind?

 

[Paloma]

What about the origin of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind?

What about it? There is no problem. God used similar design blue prints for the entire creation. Created fully formed, ready to reproduce after their kind. No problem.

 

[Barbarian]

Only problem for that is, it's not in the Bible. And the evidence shows otherwise.

 

[Paloma]

Only problem for that is, it's not in the Bible. And the evidence shows otherwise.

Why is that a problem? The Bible does not talk about lots of stuff, this is not a problem whatsoever. Like I've said, the Bible gives the big picture, and some, but not all the details. I think he left the lions share of the detials for us to hunt and search for, of course, He assumed we would be using His Word and presuppositions as the lens...

 

[Edward]

If Adam was created fully formed then presumably he also would have been deaf and mute also? At least until God unlocked the obstacle in his mind so he could accept speech. If this was the case, then these children could have been prayed for and released from the obstacle themselves?

Apparently, some of the feral kids drives were affected by this. Perhaps their drives were replaced with something else? An innate awareness of something different? Spiritual perhaps? I think that with the feral kids we can safely say that they had no knowledge of good & evil? Maybe Adam & Eve were similar until their fall? Somehow, I doubt it, but why?

Because they were on a more basic level with God & the world? I think we also have to believe that the feral kids could and did communicate with their feral family, but if they did not have speech and words, how did they do this? Body language and grunts & growls? I doubt it but those may have played a small part. There's something else there...Did they live for the Spirit, as we are instructed to do? Were they...telepathic? Able to receive telepathic (spiritual) instruction? I have to think there's something like this.

Perhaps man was not designed for speech and words, reasoning? But a more spiritual mode of existence and communication? We can't do it because we have the knowledge of good and evil and articulate speech. If any of the feral kids had been able to learn to articulate speech...would they have turned into hellions? Think what a two to three year old does with his speech...they learn 40 or 50 words and start getting into trouble. NO! Rebellion. They learn to lie at a very young age.

Words are a very inefficient means of communication. There's more to this. We are to worship in spirit and in truth. You don't need words or speech for that. Maybe...communication on a spiritual level goes something like this;
One has a need (hunger or whatever) (or desire to convey something)
A focusing of the heart takes place towards another (?)
Release the intended communication to the other. (I'm hungry...I love you...)
No explanation necessary. They get it all with no misunderstanding, they know it all.
So they toss you a biscuit, or are strengthened by the conveyance of love... (?!)

( I dunno, I'm learning too!)

We don't know if the passage that says God walked and talked with Adam & Eve means articulation...or something deeper (more basic). Talk doesn't have to mean articulation, does it? Early in my marriage (when the energy was good) my wife and I could communicate without speech. Of course there were limits to it, but it most certainly did reach further than smile and they know you like them. Body language accounts for some of it, but not all of it! I remember us talking (articulating) and changing the subject in mid discussion, with the insertion of some other topic, and it was received before I spoke the words, I could tell. There were many instances of things like this. Come to realize that this phenomenon (LOL) was during the time period where we walked in love towards one another. Interesting that.

I'm pert darn sure that this is what we're talking about with the feral kids, the mechanics of the spiritual (kingdom) realm, and those feral kids can teach us a lot. Hints are all through scripture. Live for the Spirit, worship in Spirit and in truth. It's the unseen world. We have to pay attention to it.

How many times do we miss a spiritual reality, a feature of the unseen world that is right before our eyes but for lack of faith, insight or purity we miss it?

 

[Edward]

Only problem for that is, it's not in the Bible. And the evidence shows otherwise.

Fair enough, but it is a possibility that the evidence only appears to show otherwise, and that there is an unseen factor that's not being considered and applied.

 

[Barbarian]

Why is that a problem? The Bible does not talk about lots of stuff, this is not a problem whatsoever.

True. And there are certainly truths about God that are not in scripture.

Like I've said, the Bible gives the big picture, and some, but not all the details. I think he left the lions share of the detials for us to hunt and search for, of course, He assumed we would be using His Word and presuppositions as the lens...

It's why science is what it is today. The great growth of scientific understanding came out of Christian Europe.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Only problem for that is, it's not in the Bible. And the evidence shows otherwise.

Fair enough, but it is a possibility that the evidence only appears to show otherwise, and that there is an unseen factor that's not being considered and applied.

Guys, here's a thought. The scope of scientific understanding, and the scope of bibical and Christian understanding cover a different scope of expertise. Kind of like saying a pilot and a mechanic have a different scope of expertise. You wouldn't ask a mechanic how to land a plane but you would ask a pilot. And you wouldn't ask a pilot about telling you how to build your own engine. In the same way since the focus of Christianity is God, it's focus isn't about discovering how the world works. And just the opposite with scientific understandings.

 

[Edward]

Guys, here's a thought. The scope of scientific understanding, and the scope of bibical and Christian understanding cover a different scope of expertise. Kind of like saying a pilot and a mechanic have a different scope of expertise. You wouldn't ask a mechanic how to land a plane but you would ask a pilot. And you wouldn't ask a pilot about telling you how to build your own engine. In the same way since the focus of Christianity is God, it's focus isn't about discovering how the world works. And just the opposite with scientific understandings.

We're instructed to discover how the spiritual world works too.
Galatians 5:25 (seems to imply moment by moment.)
Hebrews 5:12-14 (tells us to practice it and go to the Word if we're not very good at it .)
Matthew 7:7-8 (if you try, and seek God in His kingdom realm, you will find Him it says!)
Romans 8:5-6 (Science minds the things of the flesh?)

The feral children were not carnally minded, were they?

 

[Edward]

Guys, here's a thought. The scope of scientific understanding, and the scope of bibical and Christian understanding cover a different scope of expertise. Kind of like saying a pilot and a mechanic have a different scope of expertise. You wouldn't ask a mechanic how to land a plane but you would ask a pilot. And you wouldn't ask a pilot about telling you how to build your own engine. In the same way since the focus of Christianity is God, it's focus isn't about discovering how the world works. And just the opposite with scientific understandings.

We're instructed to discover how the spiritual world works too.
Galatians 5:25 (seems to imply moment by moment.)
Hebrews 5:12-14 (tells us to practice it and go to the Word if we're not very good at it .)
Matthew 7:7-8 (if you try, and seek God in His kingdom realm, you will find Him it says!)
Romans 8:5-6 (Science minds the things of the flesh?)

The feral children were not carnally minded, were they?

 

[Barbarian]

Yes. We are to not merely mind how the world works, but also to know Who is behind all of it.

 

[Edward]

Yes. We are to not merely mind how the world works, but also to know Who is behind all of it.

I don't think so Brother. I think it's more along the lines of...Pay no mind to it, or don't pay attention to it. Seek ye first the kingdom of God, that's all we have to worry about.