The Teachings of Jesus

[elijah23]

It seems to me many Christians pretty much ignore the teachings of Jesus, found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and build a theology around the letters of Paul. If this is what people are doing, aren’t they getting themselves into trouble?

 

[Adstar]

What does Paul teach in rebellion against the teachings of Jesus?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[francisdesales]

It seems to me many Christians pretty much ignore the teachings of Jesus, found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and build a theology around the letters of Paul. If this is what people are doing, aren’t they getting themselves into trouble?

There is no contradiction, only different focuses. It is we who are misinterpreting Scriptures, if we see "contradiction". The first Christians accepted the words and teachings of all the apostles, to include Paul.

Regards

 

[elijah23]

What does Paul teach in rebellion against the teachings of Jesus?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Jesus says the great commandment is to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, while Paul teaches the great commandment is to love our neighbors as ourselves.

But what bugs me is that Jesus told us to stop sinning, but people are always quoting Paul, or something else in the Bible, that supposedly tells us it’s okay to sin.

 

[elijah23]

There is no contradiction, only different focuses. It is we who are misinterpreting Scriptures, if we see "contradiction". The first Christians accepted the words and teachings of all the apostles, to include Paul.

Regards

Jesus says the great commandment is to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, while Paul teaches the great commandment is to love our neighbors as ourselves. Is that not a contradictioni?

 

[handy]

Elijah, would you provide the text you are referring to when you state that Paul says the greatest commandment is to love our neighbors as ourselves?

Jesus said to do both: Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

[elijah23]

Elijah, would you provide the text you are referring to when you state that Paul says the greatest commandment is to love our neighbors as ourselves?

Jesus said to do both: Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.â€

For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Gal 5:14 RSV

 

[handy]

Thanks for providing that text. It always helps to check the context and here the context is the key to seeing that Paul isn't setting himself above Christ and contradicting what Christ said.

As I noted before, Jesus said that we must both love God with all our heart, soul and mind AND to love our neighbor as ourselves, then went on to say, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Clearly Jesus gave weight to both loving God and loving our neighbor.

Paul is speaking of the second part, the "loving the neighbor" part. He isn't disagreeing with the "love God" part, nor is he saying that loving your neighbor is of more importance than loving God.

What the Galatians are struggling with is exactly how these things are to play out in the post-crucifixion world...there are those who are trying to teach the Galatians that in order to love God, one must still be circumscised. The church in Galatia must have been really torn up over the issue with a lot of folks fighting for Paul says, "But if you bite and devour one another, take care lest you be consumed by one another." Paul is contrasting their supposed "love for God" in the push to get everyone circumcised with the fighting and backbiting going on. Hence the reminder of the great commandment, which is to both love God AND our neighbor.

 

[elijah23]

Thanks for providing that text. It always helps to check the context and here the context is the key to seeing that Paul isn't setting himself above Christ and contradicting what Christ said.

As I noted before, Jesus said that we must both love God with all our heart, soul and mind AND to love our neighbor as ourselves, then went on to say, "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Clearly Jesus gave weight to both loving God and loving our neighbor.

Paul is speaking of the second part, the "loving the neighbor" part. He isn't disagreeing with the "love God" part, nor is he saying that loving your neighbor is of more importance than loving God.

What the Galatians are struggling with is exactly how these things are to play out in the post-crucifixion world...there are those who are trying to teach the Galatians that in order to love God, one must still be circumscised. The church in Galatia must have been really torn up over the issue with a lot of folks fighting for Paul says, "But if you bite and devour one another, take care lest you be consumed by one another." Paul is contrasting their supposed "love for God" in the push to get everyone circumcised with the fighting and backbiting going on. Hence the reminder of the great commandment, which is to both love God AND our neighbor.

No.

Jesus saves: the Bible does not save.

Jesus is perfect: the Bible is not perfect. (Clearly Paul contradicts Jesus in this matter we just discussed.)

We need to develop a faith in Jesus, and ONLY in Jesus. The Bible is not a substitute. Right?

 

[Sinthesis]

No.

Jesus saves: the Bible does not save.

Jesus is perfect: the Bible is not perfect. (Clearly Paul contradicts Jesus in this matter we just discussed.)

We need to develop a faith in Jesus, and ONLY in Jesus. The Bible is not a substitute. Right?

Handy has it right. Jesus says to love God and love your neighbor. Paul is speaking to Galatian Christians. Therefore it is a forgone conclusion that they love God, but the problem they are having is how to live according to their new faith. Their tendency is to backslide to the pre-Christian concept of righteousness and rely on keeping aspects of the Law, resulting in disruptive disputes over exactly how and what must be kept. In contrast, Paul is affirming Jesus' teaching and saying that the way to live out your love for God is to love your neighbors.:yes

 

[theLords]

Jesus says the great commandment is to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, while Paul teaches the great commandment is to love our neighbors as ourselves.

But what bugs me is that Jesus told us to stop sinning, but people are always quoting Paul, or something else in the Bible, that supposedly tells us it’s okay to sin.

Where in the Bible does Paul say it's okay to sin? Where are you getting this from?

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Gal 5:14 RSV

How does Paul contradict Christ in any way?

No.

Jesus saves: the Bible does not save.

Jesus is perfect: the Bible is not perfect. (Clearly Paul contradicts Jesus in this matter we just discussed.)

We need to develop a faith in Jesus, and ONLY in Jesus. The Bible is not a substitute. Right?

The Bible contains within in it the words of the Christ who is the Word and became flesh. The Bible leads people to Salvation. The Bible is our guide book given to us from God.

 

[handy]

No.

Jesus saves: the Bible does not save.

Jesus saves, but it is the Bible that is the record of how God brings salvation to us...it is the record of His law, His prophesies, His dictates, His gospel, His doctrines and His desires for us. The Scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit and it is by His work that the Scriptures accomplish this. To deny the Scriptures is to deny the work of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus is perfect:

Yes.

the Bible is not perfect.

The Scriptures are inspired and inerrant. The Bible, which now contain the Scriptures has a few "typo" type of errors,(of the "how old was Josiah when he became king 8 or 18) but as a whole are still fully and completely able to extend the message of God to us, as the Holy Spirit intends.

(Clearly Paul contradicts Jesus in this matter we just discussed.)

Clearly, you didn't really take in a thing I said, so I'm not sure how to define this as a "discussion". Paul in no way contradicts Jesus. You seem to have taken a small phrase (the greatest commandment of which loving one's neighbor as oneself is a part of) and are running with it to prove a point you want to make. The thing is, your point is in error and the example you are trying to provide doesn't say what you are trying to make it say.

We need to develop a faith in Jesus, and ONLY in Jesus.

Yes.

The Bible is not a substitute. Right?

The Bible is not a substitute for faith in Jesus, correct. But, it is the means by which we receive the message of Jesus' salvation so that we can have faith, via the work of the Holy Spirit.

Illustration: One is deatly ill and needs a medicine or else one is doomed to die. The medicine is administered via a syringe and one is healed. It is the medicine that saved, but without the syringe the medicine would be rendered useless. Jesus saves, but it is the message that the Holy Spirit puts into the Scriptures that brings the gospel to us.

Sinthesis, good points!

you too, theLords!

 

[elijah23]

Handy has it right. Jesus says to love God and love your neighbor. Paul is speaking to Galatian Christians. Therefore it is a forgone conclusion that they love God, but the problem they are having is how to live according to their new faith. Their tendency is to backslide to the pre-Christian concept of righteousness and rely on keeping aspects of the Law, resulting in disruptive disputes over exactly how and what must be kept. In contrast, Paul is affirming Jesus' teaching and saying that the way to live out your love for God is to love your neighbors.:yes

Paul said the entire law falls under one command: that we should love our neighbors as ourselves. That was a misstatement, was it not?

 

[elijah23]

Where in the Bible does Paul say it's okay to sin? Where are you getting this from?

I do not know where the Bible says that, nor do I want to know. I tell people that Jesus told us not to sin, and they come up with all kinds of Bible verses that tell them, apparently, that we don’t have to stop sinning.

 

[elijah23]

The Scriptures are inspired and inerrant.

Paul was wrong when he said the entire law is based on one commandment: that we should love our neighbors as ourselves. Jesus said the law is based on two commandments: that we should love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and that we should love out neighbors as ourselves. Right?

 

[francisdesales]

Paul was wrong when he said the entire law is based on one commandment: that we should love our neighbors as ourselves. Jesus said the law is based on two commandments: that we should love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and that we should love out neighbors as ourselves. Right?

Christianity is unique in that we love God THROUGH the love we have for our neighbors. Re-read Matthew 25 and the sheep/goat parable. John also wrote that we cannot love God if we don't love our neighbors (he calls those who claim to love God while not loving neighbor as "liar".)

Remember, Paul uses the concept of "in Christ" over and over. He knows from his own conversion experience that Jesus is "in", abides in, our neighbors. (Jesus - "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute ME"!)

Regards

 

[elijah23]

Christianity is unique in that we love God THROUGH the love we have for our neighbors. Re-read Matthew 25 and the sheep/goat parable. John also wrote that we cannot love God if we don't love our neighbors (he calls those who claim to love God while not loving neighbor as "liar".)

Remember, Paul uses the concept of "in Christ" over and over. He knows from his own conversion experience that Jesus is "in", abides in, our neighbors. (Jesus - "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute ME"!)

Regards

The Lord requires two things of us.

He requires us to love him. We need to have a personal relationship with him.

He also requires us to love our neighbor as ourselves.

If we do these two things, I everything will be okay, wouldn’t you think?

 

[theLords]

I do not know where the Bible says that, nor do I want to know. I tell people that Jesus told us not to sin, and they come up with all kinds of Bible verses that tell them, apparently, that we don’t have to stop sinning.

There is no such verse in the Bible. Anyone who is using Scripture to justify their sinning is perverting Scripture. If you don't have proof to back up your slanderous accusation that the Bible says to keep on sinning, you as a Christian should not make such a slanderous accusation in the first place.

Galatians 5:13

New International Version (©1984)
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.

New Living Translation (©2007)
For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don't use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love.

English Standard Version (©2001)
For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

 

[handy]

The Lord requires two things of us.

He requires us to love him. We need to have a personal relationship with him.

He also requires us to love our neighbor as ourselves.

If we do these two things, I everything will be okay, wouldn’t you think?

Now you're talking like Paul! ;) And I wholly agree!

Paul was wrong when he said the entire law is based on one commandment: that we should love our neighbors as ourselves. Jesus said the law is based on two commandments: that we should love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and that we should love out neighbors as ourselves. Right?

Let's unpack the contested text word by word:

"For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.â€

So, first, no, Paul did not say that the entire law is based on one commandment. What he said in Gal 5:14 was that the entire law was fulfilled (not based but fulfilled) in the statement "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Now, we know that Jesus came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. And, how did He fulfill it? By showing the greatest love of all, laying His life down for us. How then is the law fulfilled in our hearts? By loving others as Christ loves us as Jesus Himself told us to when He said, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another." (Jn 13:34)

This was Paul's point to the Galatians, who were struggling with the very contentious issue of circumcision and were fighting amongst themselves because of it. He is reminding them that Jesus commanded us to fulfill the law by loving one another, not by men being circumcised.

Elijah you said, "I do not know where the Bible says that, nor do I want to know. I tell people that Jesus told us not to sin, and they come up with all kinds of Bible verses that tell them, apparently, that we don’t have to stop sinning."

Having said that, I'm not sure anymore where you are coming from....is your point truly that Paul contradicts Jesus? Or is your thread more of a commentary on how people misuse Scriptures to justify sin?

One thing I can assure you, in no place does Paul say that it's OK to sin. As a matter of fact, you can read what Paul himself had to say to that in Romans 6.

 

[elijah23]

There is no such verse in the Bible. Anyone who is using Scripture to justify their sinning is perverting Scripture. If you don't have proof to back up your slanderous accusation that the Bible says to keep on sinning, you as a Christian should not make such a slanderous accusation in the first place.

I think what happens is that the Bible tells us we are forgiven for our sins, and some people take that to mean we don’t have to stop sinning.