The Teachings of Jesus

[Sparkey]

The Lord requires two things of us.

He requires us to love him. We need to have a personal relationship with him.

He also requires us to love our neighbor as ourselves.

If we do these two things, I everything will be okay, wouldn’t you think?

Yes, I agree. You are correct in that. If I understand your point though it isn't that Paul was wrong but that many twist his words to mean something contrary to what Jesus taught. In that, Peter agreed with you also:

"Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness."

[Acts 19:11 KJV] - And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul:


Those Christians (so called) of whom you speak try to twist the teaching of Paul but here is what Paul wanted, "And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ."

What you speak of has 'evolved' from early disputes - Paul corrected others who had made similar mistake: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. [1 Corinthians 1:12-15 KJV]

So even Paul himself was frustrated by what you observe today in the church. He wasn't the only one, neither are you - Moses was frustrated by the stubbornness of the people His God chose also.

But Paul would never say that we are to follow him and not Jesus. Just like Moses would never say they were to follow him and not God. You're right to correct those who lie and say we can get to heaven by loving each other (apart from God). That is the same lie that caused God to disrespect Cain's sacrifice - that we can appease Him by our works. Notice also the heart that Cain expressed, "What? Am I my brother's keeper?" --> We are to love God and to love each other.

Thank God that there is no separating us from the love of God. Because He loves us and because there is no changing Him we are safe in that love, safe to learn to love Him --> and each other. We are to be perfect, not because Paul did well, but because our Father in heaven is perfect. There is no maturity in the absence of abiding in the Love of God.

Paul speaks to this purpose (and for some to try to disconnect what he says from the Love of God is error): Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God. [1 Corinthians 7:24 KJV]

I personally like reading John because he speaks the plain truth so abundantly well:

- But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

I do appreciate what others have said in this thread (by way of explanation of some difficult passages of Scripture) and also what you have clearly stated, that we are to abide in the love of God, to continue to love Him above all and to also love each other as we walk with Him.

~Sparrow

 

[theLords]

I think what happens is that the Bible tells us we are forgiven for our sins, and some people take that to mean we don’t have to stop sinning.

The Bible actually speaks on this and clearly states that "just because we are under the law of grace does not mean we keep on sinning."

You will have to ask another member for the verse though. I can't remember the reference. That way the next time someone tries to justify their sin with the Bible you can show them that passage of Scripture.

This Scripture displays this quite nicely as well:

Galatians 5:13

New International Version (©1984)
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.

New Living Translation (©2007)
For you have been called to live in freedom, my brothers and sisters. But don't use your freedom to satisfy your sinful nature. Instead, use your freedom to serve one another in love.

English Standard Version (©2001)
For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.

 

[theLords]

Elijah you said, "I do not know where the Bible says that, nor do I want to know. I tell people that Jesus told us not to sin, and they come up with all kinds of Bible verses that tell them, apparently, that we don’t have to stop sinning."

Having said that, I'm not sure anymore where you are coming from....is your point truly that Paul contradicts Jesus? Or is your thread more of a commentary on how people misuse Scriptures to justify sin?

One thing I can assure you, in no place does Paul say that it's OK to sin. As a matter of fact, you can read what Paul himself had to say to that in Romans 6.

Yay, handy found the reference:


Romans 6 (NIV)

Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ

1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[handy]

You will have to ask another member for the verse though. I can't remember the reference. That way the next time someone tries to justify their sin with the Bible you can show them that passage of Scripture.

Romans 6:14-18 is a great passage of Scripture, (written by Paul ;)) of just this issue:

14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. 15What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

However, I think it might be helpful if we are looking at what is sin exactly...following Old Testament laws in regards to not eating "unclean" animals or being circumcised does not constitute sin.

Not saying you believe that they do, Elijah, but many times when I hear folks say that Paul says it's OK to sin, they actually believe that we must follow ALL Old Testament laws as if there is no New Covenant.

 

[Nick]

I do not know where the Bible says that, nor do I want to know. I tell people that Jesus told us not to sin, and they come up with all kinds of Bible verses that tell them, apparently, that we don’t have to stop sinning.

You're not talking about Romans 14 by any chance?

 

[elijah23]

You're not talking about Romans 14 by any chance?

I am not aware of anything in the Bible that says it’s okay to sin. The Bible tells us the Lord forgives sins, but that is different than saying it’s okay to sin, I believe.

 

[Nick]

I am not aware of anything in the Bible that says it’s okay to sin. The Bible tells us the Lord forgives sins, but that is different than saying it’s okay to sin, I believe.

You said that people come to you with Bible verses that say we don't have to stop sinning.

What are they?

 

[francisdesales]

The Lord requires two things of us.

He requires us to love him. We need to have a personal relationship with him.

He also requires us to love our neighbor as ourselves.

If we do these two things, I everything will be okay, wouldn’t you think?

How do you have a personal relationship with an invisible God, without considering our relationship with other people?

They are one in the same.

Regards

 

[elijah23]

You said that people come to you with Bible verses that say we don't have to stop sinning.

What are they?

No, I said there are people that come to me with Bible verses that they think say it’s okay to sin.

 

[elijah23]

How do you have a personal relationship with an invisible God, without considering our relationship with other people?

They are one in the same.

Regards

You seem to be saying that the human race is God. That is not true.

 

[Alabaster]

Jesus says the great commandment is to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, while Paul teaches the great commandment is to love our neighbors as ourselves.

But what bugs me is that Jesus told us to stop sinning, but people are always quoting Paul, or something else in the Bible, that supposedly tells us it’s okay to sin.

Jesus says the great commandment is to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, while Paul teaches the great commandment is to love our neighbors as ourselves. Is that not a contradictioni?

Paul teaches what Jesus told him to teach. Why do you see a contradiction???

Matthew 22:37-39 NLT
Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

John 13:34 NLT
So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other.

 

[watchman F]

It seems to me many Christians pretty much ignore the teachings of Jesus, found in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, and build a theology around the letters of Paul. If this is what people are doing, aren’t they getting themselves into trouble?

Paul confirms the meesage of Christ. He does not oppose it.

 

[elijah23]

Paul teaches what Jesus told him to teach. Why do you see a contradiction???

Matthew 22:37-39 NLT
Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

John 13:34 NLT
So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other.

Jesus said the great commandment was to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul.

Paul said the great commandment was that you love your neighbor as yourself.

This is a contradiction, right?

 

[elijah23]

Paul confirms the meesage of Christ. He does not oppose it.

There is information in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John not contained in Paul’s letters. Is it wise to ignore Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?

 

[watchman F]

There is information in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John not contained in Paul’s letters. Is it wise to ignore Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?

It is not wise to ignore any portion of scripture including the gospels, or the letters of Paul.

 

[Alabaster]

Jesus said the great commandment was to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul.

Paul said the great commandment was that you love your neighbor as yourself.

This is a contradiction, right?

No. Seeing as Jesus said it first, Paul had the authority to say it.

 

[handy]

Post #5:

Jesus says the great commandment is to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, while Paul teaches the great commandment is to love our neighbors as ourselves. Is that not a contradictioni?

Post #13

Paul said the entire law falls under one command: that we should love our neighbors as ourselves. That was a misstatement, was it not?

Post #15

Paul was wrong when he said the entire law is based on one commandment: that we should love our neighbors as ourselves. Jesus said the law is based on two commandments: that we should love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and that we should love out neighbors as ourselves. Right?

Ahh, and we seem, seem to have a breakthrough in post#17

The Lord requires two things of us.

He requires us to love him. We need to have a personal relationship with him.

He also requires us to love our neighbor as ourselves.

If we do these two things, I everything will be okay, wouldn’t you think?

But now we are right back where we've started from...

Jesus said the great commandment was to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul.

Paul said the great commandment was that you love your neighbor as yourself.

This is a contradiction, right?

I have to admit, Elijah, I'm becoming a little bit suspicious of you.

Was there anything at all unclear about my answer to this in post #19? Or, in any of the other very clear answers given to you numerous times on this?

If so, please let us know just what it is you're unclear on...
If not, then why go back to this same tired statement, when it's been shown, numerous times now that there is no contradiction between Paul and Jesus on this.

I asked once before, "Having said that, I'm not sure anymore where you are coming from....is your point truly that Paul contradicts Jesus? Or is your thread more of a commentary on how people misuse Scriptures to justify sin?" (It was in post #19, but perhaps you missed it?)

Just what are you getting at, Elijah? Is it that Paul contradicts Jesus? Because you've been shown now, in post after post that Paul doesn't. Or is it that people misuse Scriptures to justify sin? If so, yeah, I agree, they do and will face severe judgment for it.

There is information in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John not contained in Paul’s letters. Is it wise to ignore Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John?

There is also information in Paul's Holy Spirit inspired, inerrant letters to the church that is also not wise to ignore. I've yet to see where anyone is ignoring anything, except perhaps you who might be ignoring the epistles....not sure on that though, because I'm not sure just what you are getting at with this thread.

I do want to be patient with you if you are honestly confused as to the point Paul was making in regards to the LORD's commandment to love one another, which, I repeat, was that the law is fulfilled by our love for one another, not, I repeat, that love for one another is the greatest commandment....(this entire thread is based on a simple misreading of Paul's words which has already been pointed out. )

 

[elijah23]

No. Seeing as Jesus said it first, Paul had the authority to say it.

They said two different things. Jesus said the great commandment was to love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul. Paul said the great commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[handy]

No.

No.

No.

Paul did NOT say that the greatest commandment was to love one's neighbor as oneself...go back and read the text. It states the law is fulfilled or summed up in this commandment, not that it is the greatest commandment.

If you have a Bible that is translates the text has saying that Paul says this is the "greatest commandment" let me know which version it is.

 

[elijah23]

Post #5:


Post #13


Post #15


Ahh, and we seem, seem to have a breakthrough in post#17


But now we are right back where we've started from...



I have to admit, Elijah, I'm becoming a little bit suspicious of you.

Was there anything at all unclear about my answer to this in post #19? Or, in any of the other very clear answers given to you numerous times on this?

If so, please let us know just what it is you're unclear on...
If not, then why go back to this same tired statement, when it's been shown, numerous times now that there is no contradiction between Paul and Jesus on this.

I asked once before, "Having said that, I'm not sure anymore where you are coming from....is your point truly that Paul contradicts Jesus? Or is your thread more of a commentary on how people misuse Scriptures to justify sin?" (It was in post #19, but perhaps you missed it?)

Just what are you getting at, Elijah? Is it that Paul contradicts Jesus? Because you've been shown now, in post after post that Paul doesn't. Or is it that people misuse Scriptures to justify sin? If so, yeah, I agree, they do and will face severe judgment for it.



There is also information in Paul's Holy Spirit inspired, inerrant letters to the church that is also not wise to ignore. I've yet to see where anyone is ignoring anything, except perhaps you who might be ignoring the epistles....not sure on that though, because I'm not sure just what you are getting at with this thread.

I do want to be patient with you if you are honestly confused as to the point Paul was making in regards to the LORD's commandment to love one another, which, I repeat, was that the law is fulfilled by our love for one another, not, I repeat, that love for one another is the greatest commandment....(this entire thread is based on a simple misreading of Paul's words which has already been pointed out. )

Can you be briefer? I do not have a lot of time.