The Teachings of Jesus

[Sparkey]

Please pardon my neglect of this thread. Shall we judge with our ear? The heart of what is being said here is that all sin is utterly sinful. If our brother is burdened by those who twist the sayings of Paul into their own destruction and comes to a forum to express it, if this one is called unto perfection and not willing to accept any testimony other than the Author and Finisher of our faith... Does this mean necessarily that we who preach loving our brother need to find fault?

Elijah23, I think that I speak for every person here when I say that we wish you well and that we would love to celebrate the Glory of God seen upon you at the time of revealing. Having the mind of Christ in this, let us content ourselves then to wait for the Return of our King and continue in His teaching, that we should clean the inside of the cup first (but not neglect the outside). Many have asked that God bless you and unto that I would add my voice. It is my sincere hope that you are led to the place where you have been called, unto perfection and maturity in our Lord, the Christ.

Peter himself spoke of the writings of Paul, how many twist them unto their own destruction. If it is your preference (as you have stated) to give weight to the teachings of Jesus then it is fine by me. We are not to judge by our ear nor by our eye but to make righteous judgments. I've not once heard you say that those who follow after Jesus don't have to obey his command to love each other. I wish you Godspeed, elijah23. Each man must look and diligently work out his own salvation. Building on the Rock of Salvation does not to me seems such a bad thing. Teaching others to do so is also reasonable.

The only problem comes from the implication that God made a mistake when He chose to honor men other than Jesus to spread the good news of our Salvation. God chooses the beggerly elements of this world as co-agents of His work. He uses you, elijah23 as well as all who are willing to listen and act upon His word. Jesus is the first apostle, the first one sent by God and He was given authority to send others to continue the work He started. A fleet of workers were sent out unto the entire world and that work continues in each heart even here, even today. I ponder the meaning of the words of our Christ, "Greater things shall ye do..." Seems imperative that before death (the final enemy) is defeated and placed at the feet of our King we must learn well to follow after the Prince of Peace in all things. There is much to be done before all things spoken by God are fulfilled but we can trust that He will make a short work of it.

"We do not know what we shall be but we shall be like him."

~Sparrow

 

[Alabaster]

Peter himself spoke of the writings of Paul, how many twist them unto their own destruction. If it is your preference (as you have stated) to give weight to the teachings of Jesus then it is fine by me. We are not to judge by our ear nor by our eye but to make righteous judgments. I've not once heard you say that those who follow after Jesus don't have to obey his command to love each other. I wish you Godspeed, elijah23. Each man must look and diligently work out his own salvation. Building on the Rock of Salvation does not to me seems such a bad thing. Teaching others to do so is also reasonable.

Prejudice against portions of the holy scriptures as well as God's anointed is definitely an impediment to the rightly dividing of the word of God, and is a great hindrance to those who would attempt to teach others in the faith.

 

[francisdesales]

The purpose of this thread is to demonstrate that many people, I believe, seem to center their religion on the Bible. I think this is wrong to do. I think we should center our religion on Jesus. The teachings of Jesus are found mainly in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. It seems to me these people to a large extent ignore these four books. They argue that Paul was merely endorsing what Jesus had taught. That is no reason to ignore Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. It is in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John where we are taught the great commandment. The great commandment is that we are to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls. In other words, we are to develop a personal relationship with him. Right?

While there is a lot of truth (from my experience in discussing such things with my brothers in faith) regarding your point on some people who seem to focus on Paul to the detriment of forgeting Jesus, one does not have to make a "super-Canon" within the canon, whether it is "Paul first" or "Jesus first". No such distinction is made by the Church, since the Holy Spirit guides the writers (all of them) of Sacred Scriptures, no more, no less, for the Gospels, as well as Paul.

There is no "super" Canon within the Canon. Jesus' words do not take "priority" over Paul because when one makes that stance of comparing and contrasting, one has made an error in interpretation. The Church does not find contradiction between Jesus and Paul, so if you continue to find it, you have to ask yourself if it is the Church that has been blind for 2000 years or are you just mistaken...?

Furthermore, the idea that "Jesus is God" is not expressed with the decisiveness that you desire (from the mouth of Jesus) and it is only the first Christians, such as Paul, who realize that "at the name of Jesus (this passage in the OT refers to God), every knee shall bend..." (Phil 2:10 - Is 45:23)

By God's Will, it is through the witness of men such as Paul that we even know that Jesus is Lord - to have a relationship with HIM (contra, God directly, as the Shema suggests).

Regards

 

[Nick]

I paid no attention to the verses because I had no interest in them. I believe it’s wrong to sin.

I imagine the verses that were being quoted are verses that tell us we are forgiven for our sin. Just because we are forgiven for our sin does not make it correct to sin.

Ok then. Of course it's not ok to sin.

The purpose of this thread is to demonstrate that many people, I believe, seem to center their religion on the Bible. I think this is wrong to do. I think we should center our religion on Jesus. The teachings of Jesus are found mainly in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. It seems to me these people to a large extent ignore these four books. They argue that Paul was merely endorsing what Jesus had taught. That is no reason to ignore Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. It is in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John where we are taught the great commandment. The great commandment is that we are to love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls. In other words, we are to develop a personal relationship with him. Right?

Josh said it very well and Jason followed that through, that we only have Matthew and Mark left, by that logic.
So how much are we going to take away from the inspired Word of God?
Do you think that any of Paul's books should be in the Bible?
I don't think people ignore the Gospels. However there are 62 other books in the Bible that are equally the inspired Word of God, and infallible. Why do YOU ignore these, when Paul was made an Apostle by God's calling?
Yes, it is in the Gospels where the great commandment is directly spoken of. However, the rest of the New Testament (including Paul's writings) are examples and instructions on how to live as a response to Jesus. They are inspired and summed up in the great commandment.
You cannot separate the Word of God. You either take it all or leave it all. There is no sitting on the fence. Your call.

God came to earth in the man of Jesus Christ and preached. His words can be found in the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. You’d think people would get excited about that.

Christians do! They just recognise that they are not the only books in the Bible.

Oh, and by the way, Jesus's words can also be found in Acts and Revelation. :yes

 

[glorydaz]

Hmmm....I'm wondering if the "red letter" editions have something to do with this.

While many of Jesus' words are recorded in the Gospels, all of Scripture concerns Christ. He was there at the beginning in Genesis, and He is there in Revelation. Without the Bible, we wouldn't know about Jesus at all.

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Jesus came to fulfill SCRIPTURE which spoke of Him.

And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

If we are to put more credence in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John than the rest of Scripture then we wouldn't know as much about Jesus as we do by reading all of Scripture. We have the Bible because men of God were moved by the Holy Spirit. That would have to include Paul, Peter, Isaiah, etc.

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Sparkey]

Prejudice against portions of the holy scriptures as well as God's anointed is definitely an impediment to the rightly dividing of the word of God, and is a great hindrance to those who would attempt to teach others in the faith. [/SIZE]

I have no dispute with what you state here.

My point (which you seem to have ignored) is that our brother contends that some Christians have misunderstood what Paul wrote and he advocates attaching weight to the words of Christ.

Do you think that Paul himself would disagree with that? Let the words of Jesus be true: "You have no need that any man should teach you." Faith in Christ and in what He said is enough. Even believing on the Name of Jesus is enough. Is this not so?

Respectfully,
~Sparrow

 

[Alabaster]

I have no dispute with what you state here.

My point (which you seem to have ignored) is that our brother contends that some Christians have misunderstood what Paul wrote and he advocates attaching weight to the words of Christ.

Of course what Jesus says is paramount. Paul is Jesus' mouthpiece.

Do you think that Paul himself would disagree with that? Let the words of Jesus be true: "You have no need that any man should teach you." Faith in Christ and in what He said is enough. Even believing on the Name of Jesus is enough. Is this not so?

Jesus means that Holy Spirit is our ultimate teacher. He uses Spirit-filled men and the record of His predecessors, His followers and His life to teach us.