The Theology of Self Examination, testing to see whether one is "in the faith"

[Alfred Persson]

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. (2 Cor. 13:5 NKJ)

It is written:

"We ought to obey God rather than men. (Acts 5:29 NKJ)

God commands we "test the spirits"

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 Jn. 4:1 NKJ)

We are commanded to "test whether the supernatural in church is of God", and "hold fast what is good" abstaining from every form of evil:

21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
22 Abstain from every form of evil. (1 Thess. 5:21-22 NKJ)

God commands all "Examine yourselves" to be certain spiritual experiences are "in the faith":

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. (2 Cor. 13:5 NKJ)

A Personal Testimony of "Testing myself":

I was baptized in Bethany Christian, a four-square "full gospel" Pentecostal Church. "We can't throw the Baby out with the Bathwater" is what I often said when everyone could discern a "tongues and prophecy" was "of the flesh" and not "of the Spirit."

As a Pentecostal I believed the Holy Spirit would respond to questions with "a leading" that was either "yes" or "no". I believed that 100% for a couple of years.

Over time it became clear I often went in circles accomplishing nothing for Christ. I decided to "test" the "leading", I walked to the corner and asked "should I turn left or right?" The "leading" indicated "turn right", but I turned "left". As I walked I justified turning left was the only correct thing to do, and as I did this the "leading" reassured me "you are correct!"

That's when I realized it was all experiential self-delusion, a fabrication of my mind. At first I was heartbroken as if I lost a companion.

The despair was soon replaced by a sense of liberation! What a slave I was! How many times did it "lead me to nowhere without the resources even to live!" (comp. Isa. 8:21). As the "brain fog" lifted, my critical thinking skills returned restoring autonomy.

"Oh, what a feeling! Free at last, Free at last! Freedom! Nothing can replace it!"

As I evaluated the "fact pattern" of modern "Pentecostalism" their claim of "continuity with NT Church" became impossible. Whatever is occurring among Pentecostalism today is "something different" than what was in the New Testament Church.

That is why I am a "Cessationist." In 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 Paul discusses the cessation of the revelatory gifts because they were already ceasing everywhere in the Church, and he had to reassure them God still loved them (1 Cor. 1:4-9). The Reader must factor in the fact Paul believed Christ could return in the 1st century, so the time of their cessation would be seen as "near" to that date. Because "tongues prophecy knowledge" were "partial revelation" it logically follows they would end as the complete revelation of God appears with Christ's second coming.

The Bible alone is 100% reliable and true, experiences are subjective and possibly self-deception (Jer. 17:9; 23:26; Jas. 1:26-27).

16 Bind up the testimony, Seal the law among my disciples.
17 And I will wait on the LORD, Who hides His face from the house of Jacob; And I will hope in Him.
18 Here am I and the children whom the LORD has given me! We are for signs and wonders in Israel From the LORD of hosts, Who dwells in Mount Zion.
19 And when they say to you, "Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter," should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living?
20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isa. 8:16-20 NKJ)

The “Baptism in the Spirit” or “New Birth” Has Continued without change since Pentecost | End Time News

Discuss this article at EndTimeNewsForum.net The "Baptism in the Spirit" or "New Birth" is the same today as on the Day of Pentecost On the day of Pentecost two separate groups received the Baptism in the Spirit, numbering 120 (Ac. 1:15; 2:1-4) and 3,000 (Ac. 2:38-41). The First Group (Ac...

endtimenews.net

 

[Alfred Persson]

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. (2 Cor. 13:5 NKJ)

It is written:


God commands we "test the spirits"


We are commanded to "test whether the supernatural in church is of God", and "hold fast what is good" abstaining from every form of evil:


God commands all "Examine yourselves" to be certain spiritual experiences are "in the faith":


A Personal Testimony of "Testing myself":

I was baptized in Bethany Christian, a four-square "full gospel" Pentecostal Church. "We can't throw the Baby out with the Bathwater" is what I often said when everyone could discern a "tongues and prophecy" was "of the flesh" and not "of the Spirit."

As a Pentecostal I believed the Holy Spirit would respond to questions with "a leading" that was either "yes" or "no". I believed that 100% for a couple of years.

Over time it became clear I often went in circles accomplishing nothing for Christ. I decided to "test" the "leading", I walked to the corner and asked "should I turn left or right?" The "leading" indicated "turn right", but I turned "left". As I walked I justified turning left was the only correct thing to do, and as I did this the "leading" reassured me "you are correct!"

That's when I realized it was all experiential self-delusion, a fabrication of my mind. At first I was heartbroken as if I lost a companion.

The despair was soon replaced by a sense of liberation! What a slave I was! How many times did it "lead me to nowhere without the resources even to live!" (comp. Isa. 8:21). As the "brain fog" lifted, my critical thinking skills returned restoring autonomy.

"Oh, what a feeling! Free at last, Free at last! Freedom! Nothing can replace it!"

As I evaluated the "fact pattern" of modern "Pentecostalism" their claim of "continuity with NT Church" became impossible. Whatever is occurring among Pentecostalism today is "something different" than what was in the New Testament Church.

That is why I am a "Cessationist." In 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 Paul discusses the cessation of the revelatory gifts because they were already ceasing everywhere in the Church, and he had to reassure them God still loved them (1 Cor. 1:4-9). The Reader must factor in the fact Paul believed Christ could return in the 1st century, so the time of their cessation would be seen as "near" to that date. Because "tongues prophecy knowledge" were "partial revelation" it logically follows they would end as the complete revelation of God appears with Christ's second coming.

The Bible alone is 100% reliable and true, experiences are subjective and possibly self-deception (Jer. 17:9; 23:26; Jas. 1:26-27).

The “Baptism in the Spirit” or “New Birth” Has Continued without change since Pentecost | End Time News

Discuss this article at EndTimeNewsForum.net The "Baptism in the Spirit" or "New Birth" is the same today as on the Day of Pentecost On the day of Pentecost two separate groups received the Baptism in the Spirit, numbering 120 (Ac. 1:15; 2:1-4) and 3,000 (Ac. 2:38-41). The First Group (Ac...

endtimenews.net

John says "test the spirits" because they have sent many false prophets into the world. We don't want to become one of them:

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 Jn. 4:1 NKJ)


The human heart is deceitful, and if we fail to test it "we be a fool":

9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?
10 I, the LORD, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give every man according to his ways, According to the fruit of his doings.(Jer. 17:9-10 NKJ)

We must obey God rather than men, and test the spirits for our latter end to be blessed:

19 Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD has gone forth in fury-- A violent whirlwind! It will fall violently on the head of the wicked.
20 The anger of the LORD will not turn back Until He has executed and performed the thoughts of His heart. In the latter days you will understand it perfectly.

21 "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran. I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

22 But if they had stood in My counsel, And had caused My people to hear My words, Then they would have turned them from their evil way And from the evil of their doings.

23 "Am I a God near at hand," says the LORD, "And not a God afar off?
24 Can anyone hide himself in secret places, So I shall not see him?" says the LORD; "Do I not fill heaven and earth?" says the LORD.

25 "I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying,`I have dreamed, I have dreamed!'

26 "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart,
27 "who try to make My people forget My name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbor, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal.

28 "The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream; And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat?" says the LORD.

29 "Is not My word like a fire?" says the LORD, "And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?

30 "Therefore behold, I am against the prophets," says the LORD, "who steal My words every one from his neighbor.
31 "Behold, I am against the prophets," says the LORD, "who use their tongues and say,`He says.'
32 "Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," says the LORD, "and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all," says the LORD. (Jer. 23:19-32 NKJ)

 

[Hidden In Him]

A Personal Testimony of "Testing myself":

I was baptized in Bethany Christian, a four-square "full gospel" Pentecostal Church. "We can't throw the Baby out with the Bathwater" is what I often said when everyone could discern a "tongues and prophecy" was "of the flesh" and not "of the Spirit."

As a Pentecostal I believed the Holy Spirit would respond to questions with "a leading" that was either "yes" or "no". I believed that 100% for a couple of years.

Over time it became clear I often went in circles accomplishing nothing for Christ. I decided to "test" the "leading", I walked to the corner and asked "should I turn left or right?" The "leading" indicated "turn right", but I turned "left". As I walked I justified turning left was the only correct thing to do, and as I did this the "leading" reassured me "you are correct!"

That's when I realized it was all experiential self-delusion, a fabrication of my mind. At first I was heartbroken as if I lost a companion.

The despair was soon replaced by a sense of liberation! What a slave I was! How many times did it "lead me to nowhere without the resources even to live!" (comp. Isa. 8:21). As the "brain fog" lifted, my critical thinking skills returned restoring autonomy.

"Oh, what a feeling! Free at last, Free at last! Freedom! Nothing can replace it!"

As I evaluated the "fact pattern" of modern "Pentecostalism" their claim of "continuity with NT Church" became impossible. Whatever is occurring among Pentecostalism today is "something different" than what was in the New Testament Church.

Well once again, Alfred, I'm glad you were delivered from this mess, but that's in no way a parallel to my Pentecostal experience. I doubt if your church was even encouraging that, and if they were BOY were you in a bad situation. But it sounds more like you were just caught up in a delusion, and presuming you knew what Pentecostalism was when you in fact didn't. That's not the real deal, it's only pretending to be.

Again, I'm glad you were delivered from those delusions, but that's not what Pentecostalism is. What you were living was a superficial facsimile of it, one of your own creation, or someone else's who had no clue. That's why I told you before that you really shouldn't be teaching on this subject. It's a distorted misrepresentation.

God bless,
- H

 

[Alfred Persson]

Well once again, Alfred, I'm glad you were delivered from this mess, but that's in no way a parallel to my Pentecostal experience. I doubt if your church was even encouraging that, and if they were BOY were you in a bad situation. But it sounds more like you were just caught up in a delusion, and presuming you knew what Pentecostalism was when you in fact didn't. That's not the real deal, it's only pretending to be.

Again, I'm glad you were delivered from those delusions, but that's not what Pentecostalism is. What you were living was a superficial facsimile of it, one of your own creation, or someone else's who had no clue. That's why I told you before that you really shouldn't be teaching on this subject. It's a distorted misrepresentation.

God bless,
- H

"Yeah, that's the ticket", claim its only me.

If someone in your church rejoiced how they were being "led by the Holy Spirit" you'd shout "praise the Lord!"

The Pentecostal church is filled with folks believing they speak in tongues, get "voice thought impressions" "dreams and visions" or physically feel warmth or electricity when they ask for divine guidance.

I asked ChatGPT "What does the leading of the Holy Spirit feel like?" A diversity of experiences, not just one:

The experience of the leading of the Holy Spirit is subjective and can vary from person to person. It is often described as a personal and internal prompting, guidance, or influence that believers attribute to the presence and work of the Holy Spirit. Here are some common descriptions of what the leading of the Holy Spirit can feel like:

1. Peace and inner assurance: Feeling a sense of peace, calmness, and assurance about a particular decision, action, or direction.
2. Conviction and clarity: Experiencing a strong sense of conviction or clarity about a specific course of action or understanding of a truth.
3. Alignment with God's will: Sensing that a certain choice or direction is in alignment with God's plan, purpose, or character.
4. Intuition and discernment: Having a heightened sense of intuition or discernment that helps distinguish between right and wrong, truth and falsehood.
5. Promptings or nudges: Feeling gentle promptings or nudges to take certain actions, reach out to someone, or make specific choices.
6. Confirmation and affirmation: Receiving confirmations or affirmations through a deep inner sense or through external signs that validate a decision or direction.
7. Still, small voice: Hearing a quiet, gentle, and distinct voice within the mind or heart, providing guidance or direction.
8. Strong impressions or convictions: Experiencing strong and persistent impressions or convictions about a particular matter or decision.
9. Deep spiritual longing: Feeling a strong inner desire or longing for a specific path, action, or relationship that aligns with God's will.
10. Open doors and closed doors: Noticing circumstances or opportunities that seem to align or unfold in a way that supports a particular direction, while other paths may close off.

I'm not an arbiter of spiritual experiences. You believe yours are from God, who am I to say different.

I reported the details of my experience because it will benefit those who "Examine Themselves" in obedience to Scripture.

Those who don't obey scripture, who follow their experiences even when it contradicts the bible, were prophesied to come.

I'm praising God I didn't become one of them:

13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.
14 "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me,`Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 "Many will say to Me in that day,`Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
23 "And then I will declare to them,`I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' (Matt. 7:13-23 NKJ)

What is "lawlessness"? The bible isn't concerned with "men's law", only Torah "God's Law". Disobedience to the Bible is "lawlessness", following experiences when their fact-pattern doesn't fit the New Testament is "lawlessness":

10 ...They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
(2 Thess. 2:10-12 NIV)

What is in the realm of the Spirit cannot be physically felt, body or brain. If someone believes a particular experience is the "leading of the Holy Spirit" they should ask themselves, "why doesn't the New Testament speak about it?"

The reason why Scripture does not describe a particular experience as the "Holy Spirit's leading" is because it doesn't exist. Everything He does is beyond sensory detection. Its in the realm of the Spirit and can't be "felt". Our spirit knows the new birth occurred, and that is why we change, know God is our Father and now love His Truth and His people more than life itself.

 

[Alfred Persson]

My 30 minutes of Edit time passed before I could add this final chapter:

Therefore, no born-again Christian is a "second class citizen" because the extraordinary gifts of the Spirit were reserved for the Twelve Apostles and founding prophets (Acts 1:1-5; 21-22), and not given to them.

God has a word for them if they still feel like foreigners among His people, a "dry tree":


3 Let no foreigner who is bound to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely exclude me from his people." And let no eunuch complain, "I am only a dry tree."
4 For this is what the LORD says: "To the eunuchs who keep my Sabbaths, who choose what pleases me and hold fast to my covenant--
5 to them I will give within my temple and its walls a memorial and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name that will endure forever.
6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant--
7 these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations."

8 The Sovereign LORD declares-- he who gathers the exiles of Israel: "I will gather still others to them besides those already gathered." (Isa. 56:3-8 NIV)

 

[Highway54]

Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. (2 Cor. 13:5 NKJ)

It is written:


God commands we "test the spirits"


We are commanded to "test whether the supernatural in church is of God", and "hold fast what is good" abstaining from every form of evil:


God commands all "Examine yourselves" to be certain spiritual experiences are "in the faith":


A Personal Testimony of "Testing myself":

I was baptized in Bethany Christian, a four-square "full gospel" Pentecostal Church. "We can't throw the Baby out with the Bathwater" is what I often said when everyone could discern a "tongues and prophecy" was "of the flesh" and not "of the Spirit."

As a Pentecostal I believed the Holy Spirit would respond to questions with "a leading" that was either "yes" or "no". I believed that 100% for a couple of years.

Over time it became clear I often went in circles accomplishing nothing for Christ. I decided to "test" the "leading", I walked to the corner and asked "should I turn left or right?" The "leading" indicated "turn right", but I turned "left". As I walked I justified turning left was the only correct thing to do, and as I did this the "leading" reassured me "you are correct!"

That's when I realized it was all experiential self-delusion, a fabrication of my mind. At first I was heartbroken as if I lost a companion.

The despair was soon replaced by a sense of liberation! What a slave I was! How many times did it "lead me to nowhere without the resources even to live!" (comp. Isa. 8:21). As the "brain fog" lifted, my critical thinking skills returned restoring autonomy.

"Oh, what a feeling! Free at last, Free at last! Freedom! Nothing can replace it!"

As I evaluated the "fact pattern" of modern "Pentecostalism" their claim of "continuity with NT Church" became impossible. Whatever is occurring among Pentecostalism today is "something different" than what was in the New Testament Church.

That is why I am a "Cessationist." In 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 Paul discusses the cessation of the revelatory gifts because they were already ceasing everywhere in the Church, and he had to reassure them God still loved them (1 Cor. 1:4-9). The Reader must factor in the fact Paul believed Christ could return in the 1st century, so the time of their cessation would be seen as "near" to that date. Because "tongues prophecy knowledge" were "partial revelation" it logically follows they would end as the complete revelation of God appears with Christ's second coming.

The Bible alone is 100% reliable and true, experiences are subjective and possibly self-deception (Jer. 17:9; 23:26; Jas. 1:26-27).

The “Baptism in the Spirit” or “New Birth” Has Continued without change since Pentecost | End Time News

Discuss this article at EndTimeNewsForum.net The "Baptism in the Spirit" or "New Birth" is the same today as on the Day of Pentecost On the day of Pentecost two separate groups received the Baptism in the Spirit, numbering 120 (Ac. 1:15; 2:1-4) and 3,000 (Ac. 2:38-41). The First Group (Ac...

endtimenews.net

In order to test if one is in the faith Alfred, one has to know the faith, correct? For example the biggest identifier is the God in whom we worship. Do you worship the God Jesus said to worship sir?

 

[Alfred Persson]

In order to test if one is in the faith Alfred, one has to know the faith, correct? For example the biggest identifier is the God in whom we worship. Do you worship the God Jesus said to worship sir?

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; (Jn. 14:6-7 NKJ)

Do you know Jesus, the real Jesus revealed in Scripture? I think not. The real Jesus truly is "God", and you don't believe that.

You believe Jesus is a creature. But the Bible says all "creatures" were created by Jesus therefore He cannot be one of the creatures He created, that would be impossible:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
(Jn. 1:1-3 NKJ)

As you don't know Jesus "God the Son", neither can you know "God the Father".

But the time is coming when you will openly confess Jesus Christ is Yahweh, to the glory of God the Father:

10 "...in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground,
11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is LORD (=Yahweh, see NWT Appendix) to the glory of God the Father.-NWT

 

[Hidden In Him]

What is in the realm of the Spirit cannot be physically felt, body or brain. If someone believes a particular experience is the "leading of the Holy Spirit" they should ask themselves, "why doesn't the New Testament speak about it?"

The reason why Scripture does not describe a particular experience as the "Holy Spirit's leading" is because it doesn't exist. Everything He does is beyond sensory detection. Its in the realm of the Spirit and can't be "felt". Our spirit knows the new birth occurred, and that is why we change, know God is our Father and now love His Truth and His people more than life itself.

Once again, Alfred, you don't have any idea what you are talking about, Lol.

But I'm guessing you're not going to listen to me, even when I show it to you from scriptures. Like I was saying when we were talking about MacArthur. You guys get a position in your head, and then you just stop listening.

I'm not an arbiter of spiritual experiences. You believe yours are from God, who am I to say different.

But Alfred, you are. You can't fall back on this statement when you are defining "the Pentecostal church" for everyone, Lol...

Again, what you were involved in was apparently a mess. But why do you keep posting thread after thread suggesting every Pentecostal church was like the one you attended? It's a whole lot of bunk.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Once again, Alfred, you don't have any idea what you are talking about, Lol.

But I'm guessing you're not going to listen to me, even when I show it to you from scriptures. Like I was saying when we were talking about MacArthur. You guys get a position in your head, and then you just stop listening.


But Alfred, you are. You can't fall back on this statement when you are defining "the Pentecostal church" for everyone, Lol...

Again, what you were involved in was apparently a mess. But why do you keep posting thread after thread suggesting every Pentecostal church was like the one you attended? It's a whole lot of bunk.

That's obviously wrong, I have lots of ideas and my various posts prove it.

Why should I listen to someone who won't reveal his true name?

Who doesn't produce character references?

You haven't shown any of the modern miracles are in the NT. They are too different. For example, you have tongues that aren't foreign languages and where dozens of the people in church babble to their hearts content while no one interprets. Paul didn't allow that in Corinth.

You haven't shown me where Paul allowed that.

Just like my true statement, that as I am not an arbiter of experience, I don't disparage anyone's' experience.

But even that simple statement you don't get right. And I'm supposed to believe your witness is credible about more complicated matters? Why?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Why should I listen to someone who won't reveal his true name?

What? My true name is Chris, Lol. All you had to do is ask.

You don't think Colossians 3:1-4 is about being scared to tell others our names, do you? You are way too full of assumptions all the time, Lol.

Who doesn't produce character references?

Ok, I'm out again. This isn't a real conversation, this is just... bizarre, LoL. My character is being called into question... over what exactly?

Until next time, Alfred, if there is one. And I noticed you didn't even ask for the scriptures I told you would refute your position, and you know why? It's because you don't want to know. You just wanna keep getting on your soap box and teaching this Cessationist stuff, so you don't want to hear them. That's a shame, and if you ever get around to actually thinking about things, you're going to realize what a huge mistake you were making some day.

But so be it.

But for future reference - and I'm getting used to you but others may not - don't go around condemning others simply because they choose not to use their real names. Most stronger believers I know do it, including the entire staff here, and it's not some "sin," regardless of whether you insinuate it is or not.

TTYL,
- H

 

[Alfred Persson]

What? My true name is Chris, Lol. All you had to do is ask.

You don't think Colossians 3:1-4 is about being scared to tell others our names, do you? You are way too full of assumptions all the time, Lol.


Ok, I'm out again. This isn't a real conversation, this is just... bizarre, LoL. My character is being called into question... over what exactly?

Until next time, Alfred, if there is one. And I noticed you didn't even ask for the scriptures I told you would refute your position, and you know why? It's because you don't want to know. You just wanna keep getting on your soap box and teaching this Cessationist stuff, so you don't want to hear them. That's a shame, and if you ever get around to actually thinking about things, you're going to realize what a huge mistake you were making some day.

But so be it.

But for future reference - and I'm getting used to you but others may not - don't go around condemning others simply because they choose not to use their real names. Most stronger believers I know do it, including the entire staff here, and it's not some "sin," regardless of whether you insinuate it is or not.

TTYL,
- H

No one is named "Chris" only.

That just proves the point, as simple things are misunderstood, it does not logically follow complicated things would be correctly understood.

We really need those character references, especially after your last post.

 

[Hidden In Him]

No one is named "Chris" only.

Unbelievable.

You know there is such a thing as identity theft, right?

We really need those character references, especially after your last post.

You would call my character into question because I don't want my identity stolen?

That says things about your character, Alfred, not mine.

You're making your contentions look weaker by the moment, and as much as I think you need to be corrected, I'm not really into grinding you down right now, so I'm heading out.

 

[Highway54]

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; (Jn. 14:6-7 NKJ)

Do you know Jesus, the real Jesus revealed in Scripture? I think not. The real Jesus truly is "God", and you don't believe that.

You believe Jesus is a creature. But the Bible says all "creatures" were created by Jesus therefore He cannot be one of the creatures He created, that would be impossible:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
(Jn. 1:1-3 NKJ)

As you don't know Jesus "God the Son", neither can you know "God the Father".

But the time is coming when you will openly confess Jesus Christ is Yahweh, to the glory of God the Father:

10 "...in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground,
11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is LORD (=Yahweh, see NWT Appendix) to the glory of God the Father.-NWT

Your same version rendered theos/theon a god at Acts 28:6. Your selected version altered Jn 1:1 to support the very doctrine you are promoting. Best to follow Jesus' teachings sir:
(Matthew 4:10) . . .Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’. . .
(Matthew 22:37, 38) . . .He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment.

Obedience is the key to salvation Alfred.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Your same version rendered theos/theon a god at Acts 28:6. Your selected version altered Jn 1:1 to support the very doctrine you are promoting. Best to follow Jesus' teachings sir:
(Matthew 4:10) . . .Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’. . .
(Matthew 22:37, 38) . . .He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment.

Obedience is the key to salvation Alfred.

6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; (Jn. 14:6-7 NKJ)

I wasn't saved until I called out to God in the Name of Jesus, only then did He answer me.

My conversion to Christ happened over 40 years ago, in San Pedro California. I was shipping out waiting on a ship.

I was thinking about becoming a Jehovah's Witness, until I read Acts 13:2 and realized God the Holy Spirit is a Person, not an impersonal active force. He uses personal pronouns "I" and "Me", which an impersonal active force would not do:

As they were publicly ministering to Jehovah and fasting, the holy spirit said: "Of all persons set Barnabas and Saul apart for me for the work to which I have them.-Acts 13:2 New World Translation

I was devastated. I felt totally alone, "if the Jehovah's Witnesses are not God's people, who are?"

I cried out in prayer to Jehovah, "please help me, I beg you! I can't see who your people are!". I was absolutely devastated, went about as if in a stupor. But Jehovah would not answer me.

One day a Baptist Radio minister was urging listeners to call in and confess "Jesus Christ is LORD" and that God "raised Him from the dead" publicly (Mat. 10:32) and you will be saved. "God does not lie," and He promised:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Rom. 10:9 KJV)

I rushed to the public phone in the lobby of the Amory Hotel. A few of my fellow sailors sat there socializing, they would overhear every word I said on the phone!" Then a thought appeared: "You don't want to embarrass yourself in front of them! You'll be a laughingstock!" I drove the thought away thinking: "I want Jesus to be my LORD more than life itself!"

The Radio minister asked "do you confess Jesus Christ is LORD!" "Yes, I confess Jesus Christ is LORD!" "Do you believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead?" "Yes, I believe God raised Him from the dead!"

"Then you are saved, for God cannot lie and in Romans 10: 9-11 He says:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (Rom. 10:9-11 KJV)

I thanked him profusely and went to my room, stunned. As I was pondering these things I was "baptized in the Holy Spirit!"

God the Holy Spirit fell upon me like a warm wind, filling my soul regenerating it. The washing of regeneration (Tit. 3:5) renewed my spirit (Rom. 8:16), not my flesh body or brain (Rom. 7:18). My soul, the "ghost operating the machine" became a partaker of the divine nature (2 Pet. 1:4). God breathed into my soul the "breath of lives" and the filling gave rise to a "new creature" (Gen. 2:7; 2 Cor. 5:17), risen from the dead in Christ Jesus my LORD (Rom. 6:4). Over forty years ago this happened, and never has the Spirit left or forsaken me. God is more real to me than anyone or anything existing.

About Me | End Time News

CHAP. XI.16—CONCERNING TEACHERS, APOSTLES, AND PROPHETS. Whosoever, therefore, cometh and teacheth you all these things that have been said before, receive him…But he shall not remain except one day; but if there be need, also the next; but if he remain three days, he is a false prophet. 6 And...

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[Alfred Persson]

Unbelievable.

You know there is such a thing as identity theft, right?


You would call my character into question because I don't want my identity stolen?

That says things about your character, Alfred, not mine.

You're making your contentions look weaker by the moment, and as much as I think you need to be corrected, I'm not really into grinding you down right now, so I'm heading out.

It is a concern when people know where to find you. When I was a street preacher in San Fran a few satanists decided to attack me through the window of my apartment. But I slept like a baby that night, window open for fresh air. In the morning my neighbors told me a gang of them searched for over an hour, but couldn't find my window. Just couldn't see it. My neighbors were amazed. Needless to say, I quickly moved out of there.

Another time I found a large kitchen knife outside my door. Someone must have changed his mind, that's all I found. Its a good knife, still use it to slice bread.

One time on a ship a JuJu man cursed me, commanded the spirits destroy me. That night I did have a few nightmares, but otherwise no problems. But when the JuJu man saw me he fled. I don't know why but I suspect this may have had something to do with it:

"For there is no sorcery against Jacob, Nor any divination against Israel. It now must be said of Jacob And of Israel,`Oh, what God has done!' (Num. 23:23 NKJ)

14 Behold, the wicked brings forth iniquity; Yes, he conceives trouble and brings forth falsehood.
15 He made a pit and dug it out, And has fallen into the ditch which he made.
16 His trouble shall return upon his own head, And his violent dealing shall come down on his own crown.
17 I will praise the LORD according to His righteousness, And will sing praise to the name of the LORD Most High.
(Ps. 7:14-17 NKJ)

It is a dangerous world. But how credible are anonymous sources? Only a fool would trust their spiritual life to anonymous sources.

 

[Hidden In Him]

It is a dangerous world. But how credible are anonymous sources? Only a fool would trust their spiritual life to anonymous sources.

Then as I suspected, and I have told you this repeatedly now only you have been slow to admit I was telling you the truth and discerning you accurately from the start: You are here only to talk. You are not here to listen.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Then as I suspected, and I have told you this repeatedly now only you have been slow to admit I was telling you the truth and discerning you accurately from the start: You are here only to talk. You are not here to listen.

Incorrect. Big difference listening and debating, even learning from anonymous posters, and trusting them with your spiritual life.

As for errors in doctrine and logic, I have dealt with them fairly as if everyone were my brother.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Incorrect. Big difference listening and debating, even learning from anonymous posters, and trusting them with your spiritual life.

Alfred, I was never expecting you to "trust me with your spiritual life" to begin with, Lol. I WAS expecting you to at least believe I wasn't lying. My experience with Pentecostalism has been NOTHING like yours, and I doubt it's been like anyone else's around here either, but if you can't believe me then I suppose it is what it is...

Another waste of time responding to your threads unfortunately.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Alfred, I was never expecting you to "trust me with your spiritual life" to begin with, Lol. I WAS expecting you to at least believe I wasn't lying. My experience with Pentecostalism has been NOTHING like yours, and I doubt it's been like anyone else's around here either, but if you can't believe me then I suppose it is what it is...

Another waste of time responding to your threads unfortunately.

Never said you were lying, nor do I say that now. I said I need proof to believe the extraordinary is happening. No proof, no belief.

Its not a waste of my time to say that. In fact, it sets a good example for others. Obedience to Scripture:

21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
22 Abstain from every form of evil. (1 Thess. 5:21-22 NKJ)

 

[Hidden In Him]

Never said you were lying, nor do I say that now. I said I need proof to believe the extraordinary is happening. No proof, no belief.

Alfred, so long as you believe the gifts have ceased, what proof do you think you are going to receive? You know what proof Peter received when he started sinking? Proof that with unbelief comes "proof" that one cannot operate in the supernatural.

Be prepared to keep sinking, cuz that's the only thing you can apparently believe for.

Gotta go. God bless.