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THE TRUE ORIGIN OF "ALLAH"

Gabriel Ali said:
Adullam said:
kenan said:
Allah is the word used for "the god/God" in Arabic: Christian Arabs also use it just as we use God and Lord and different people with different languages use their own words (eg Gott in German) to name God. That is the true origin of the word Allah.

Also, just my :twocents on the matter, I'm a convert from Islam (in the religious sense, not in the sense of the word which means "submission to God" in Arabic) to Christianity, and personally I think that there is some credibility in the teachings of Muhammad and in the Qur'an. The reason why I think this is because the Bible and the Qur'an both have very similar 'stories' told within them, and because the teachings of the various prophets of Judaism and Christianity are similar to those of Muhammad. Hovever, just like all other texts, including the Bible, the Qur'an has become corrupted over the years because on earth it is not safe in the hands of some malevolent human beings.


This is true. I find that most Christians are attacking windmills where it comes to trying to counter Islam. They are in left field about what Islam is and why God has allowed this religion to flourish AFTER Christianity.

I believe that Islam is a judgment from God on the lack of righteousness in the church that is called by His name. The church promotes a godliness without power, for the most part. It preaches a gospel that frustrates both grace and righteousness.

The solution; The church should return to her first love and BE the light in the world. Muslims must be blinded by God's truth in order to see the way. Carnal means will never work.

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John

What is it exactly about Kenan's post, that you agree with? The fact that he considers both the Bible and the Quran to be corrupt or the fact that he considers both the Bible and the Quran to contain some truth?

Your reply seems to have very little in relation to his post, or this topic.



A Christian and a Muslim do have a common interest. Both the bible and the Koran uphold righteousness...or doing what is right. Submission to God is a good place to start. So this is the common ground we work from. There is little similarity between Greek Pantheism and Christianity, for instance, yet Paul was able to find some common ground to speak to them from. And now...who follows Greek Pantheism??? Where Christianity gains a foothold....Christianity wins.

Allah is simply Arabic for God. A God that Muslims don't really know. Remember that Paul preached the "unknown God" to the Greeks? Well, this unknown God became known THROUGH Paul and other disciples. It's a contest that power and grace will always win. Show them the power of God, and extend a hand to them in love....and they will follow.
 
Adullam said:
This is true. I find that most Christians are attacking windmills where it comes to trying to counter Islam. They are in left field about what Islam is and why God has allowed this religion to flourish AFTER Christianity.

I believe that Islam is a judgment from God on the lack of righteousness in the church that is called by His name. The church promotes a godliness without power, for the most part. It preaches a gospel that frustrates both grace and righteousness.

The solution; The church should return to her first love and BE the light in the world. Muslims must be blinded by God's truth in order to see the way. Carnal means will never work.

This is not a theological debate, and this topic is very important as the “same God†claim is the number one tool used by Muslims to proselytize Christians and Jews.

Adullam said:
A Christian and a Muslim do have a common interest. Both the bible and the Koran uphold righteousness...or doing what is right. Submission to God is a good place to start. So this is the common ground we work from. There is little similarity between Greek Pantheism and Christianity, for instance, yet Paul was able to find some common ground to speak to them from. And now...who follows Greek Pantheism??? Where Christianity gains a foothold....Christianity wins.

Righteousness in Islam is not necessarily the same righteousness found in Christianity.

Adullam said:
Allah is simply Arabic for God. A God that Muslims don't really know. Remember that Paul preached the "unknown God" to the Greeks? Well, this unknown God became known THROUGH Paul and other disciples. It's a contest that power and grace will always win. Show them the power of God, and extend a hand to them in love....and they will follow.

And I repeat once again; I am not disputing that the Arabic word “Allah†translates as the English word “Godâ€Â, being an ex-Muslim, that would be pretty foolish of me and this thread would be pointless as you could find that out in an English-to-Arabic dictionary.

What I am disputing is the Islamic claim that "Allah" is "Yahweh" the Jewish and Christian God. This is a hollow statement that has remained unsubstantiated by Muslims and is taken on faith alone.To prove this claim from a secular perspective one must provide evidence that the concept of "Allah" originated from and was inspired into creation by the Jewish and Christian God "Yahweh" found in the Holy Bible. This claim has already been refuted by archaeological finds which prove Allah in fact originated from a pagan idol and not Yahweh of the Bible, and that the Abrahamic elements (including the 'one true god' stance) were added later by Mohammad specifically to convert Christians and Jews.

This thread does not deal with the origin of the word “Allahâ€Â, it deals with the origin of the god“Allahâ€Â.
 
Gabriel Ali said:
The word "Pug-wan" in Hindi, is translated as "God", following your logic, this would make Vishnu or Lord Krishna the same gods as the one found in the Holy Bible or the Quran.

That would be because Vishnu and Krishna are, for all intents and purposes, the same gods: Krishna is the 8th avatar of Vishnu.

There are certain similarities to be found in Buddhist and Hindu text but this does not give them any more credibility to a practising Muslim or Christian. Also, unless you follow that particular faith, you need to look at it from a non-religious and historical point-of-view (which you are clearly not) Also, Christianity and Islam are incompatible; Muslims themselves cannot reconcile the differences found within both scriptures, and for a Christian to accept Islamic scripture would mean that they are no longer Christian, but Muslim

You need to research Hinduism in detail before you start using it for your explainations. The reason that there are similarities between Hinduism and Buddhism is the same as the reason that there are similarities between Judaism and Christianity: Buddhism is an offshoot of Hinduism. Gautama Buddha is seen by Hindus to be the 9th avatar of Vishnu. And, I'm also looking at all this from a pan-religious and secular view: when arguing theological and philosophical cases, I take all religions and view points into account and make a decision based on the evidence present.

Finally, the last point you made is completely incorrect. Being a Muslim convert yourself I'm sure you would understand that Muslim is the Arabic word for "one who submits to God". Therefore, we are all, in an Arabic sense, Muslims. Also, Christianity and Islam are completely compatible. It's just the believers that aren't. If they were around, I'm sure that Muhammad and Jesus Christ would be good mates because they both shared similar religious and political views and have had similar life experiences.

The Holy Bible was completed about half a millennium before the Quran. From a secular perspective, the stories found within the Quran hold no historical value, while those found in the Old and New Testament do.

From a secular and scientific perspective, the stories found within the Qur'an and the Bible are both absolute bull. Think about it a minute, won't you? A man sent from God to save the world from sin? Some Arab preaching one God who will burn you if you don't believe in him? God doesn't even exist :screwloose (sarcasm)

Also, Historians are agreed that the Bible stories found within the Quran differ so much, because Mohammad was illiterate, thus his knowledge of the Jewish and Christian scriptures were from second-hand sources. For example; Mohammad assumed that the Trinity consisted of “the Father (God), the Mother (Virgin Mary) and the Son (Jesus)†he thought this due to at that time there being a small heretical sect who also taught this doctrine. Mohammad incorrectly assumed that this was common Biblical teaching.

Which historians?

This is not a theological debate, and this topic is very important as the “same God†claim is the number one tool used by Muslims to proselytize Christians and Jews.

I think that Christians should use the same 'tool' that the Muslims are using because God knows that their tool is working, their religion is the second largest in the world and, except for the Sunni-Shi'ite conflict, they're a tight knit community who are united in one goal: the universal acceptance and worship of their God.

Righteousness in Islam is not necessarily the same righteousness found in Christianity.

An empty and incorrect statement. Righteousness in Islam is based on the same principals as righteousness in Christianity: Muslims submit to one God and accept Muhammad as a prophet of God and follow in his example, which was one of perfect adherence to his God's laws. Christians submit to 'one' God (I should say here that I believe the Trinity doctrine is baloney, but I'm not here to discuss that) and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and follow in his example, which was exemplified by his love towards mankind and his non-violence.

What I am disputing is the Islamic claim that "Allah" is "Yahweh" the Jewish and Christian God. This is a hollow statement that has remained unsubstantiated by Muslims and is taken on faith alone.To prove this claim from a secular perspective one must provide evidence that the concept of "Allah" originated from and was inspired into creation by the Jewish and Christian God "Yahweh" found in the Holy Bible. This claim has already been refuted by archaeological finds which prove Allah in fact originated from a pagan idol and not Yahweh of the Bible, and that the Abrahamic elements (including the 'one true god' stance) were added later by Mohammad specifically to convert Christians and Jews. This thread does not deal with the origin of the word “Allahâ€Â, it deals with the origin of the god “Allahâ€Â.

:nono

God's existence at this point in time and, for as far as I can see into the future, is and will be considered unsubstantiated by the scientific community due to lack of evidence. You can look at it however you will, but the fact is that, in the end God cannot be proven to be real or imaginary, and we as believers have only faith alone to justify His existence. One could just say "look in a bible, there is your proof", but the bible is a very ancient collection of texts containing many books collected over thousands of years from unknown sources, and considering that it has been translated from hebrew, greek and aramaic to Latin by biased CC translators, and then into English by biased translators, and then into English again using this "thought by thought" method which has become the most widely spread translation method of today (NIV. Can I say any more?), you cannot deny that the Bible has been corrupted over the years.

You say that there has been archaeological evidence that Allah was just one god among many of the pre-Islamic Arabian gods. This is true, but I challenge you to prove to me that Yahweh did not 'descent' from a pagan idol, such as Aten. What if the Israelites who left Egypt simply believed in an Egyptian god who they believed to be above all others?
 
kenan said:
Gabriel Ali said:
The word "Pug-wan" in Hindi, is translated as "God", following your logic, this would make Vishnu or Lord Krishna the same gods as the one found in the Holy Bible or the Quran.

That would be because Vishnu and Krishna are, for all intents and purposes, the same gods: Krishna is the 8th avatar of Vishnu.

I'm aware of that; I was not comparing Vishnu to Krishna (hence my use of the word "or"), and you have missed my point completely; If you claim that the Jeudo-Christian deity is the same as the Islamic deity simply because the English word "God" corresponds to the Arabic word "Allah" then the same case can be made for Vishnu and Krishna who are referred to as "Pug-wan" which is the Hindi word for "God". This is something that most Monotheists will not accept, but logically its equally valid.

kenan said:
Gabriel Ali said:
There are certain similarities to be found in Buddhist and Hindu text but this does not give them any more credibility to a practising Muslim or Christian. Also, unless you follow that particular faith, you need to look at it from a non-religious and historical point-of-view (which you are clearly not) Also, Christianity and Islam are incompatible; Muslims themselves cannot reconcile the differences found within both scriptures, and for a Christian to accept Islamic scripture would mean that they are no longer Christian, but Muslim

You need to research Hinduism in detail before you start using it for your explainations. The reason that there are similarities between Hinduism and Buddhism is the same as the reason that there are similarities between Judaism and Christianity: Buddhism is an offshoot of Hinduism. Gautama Buddha is seen by Hindus to be the 9th avatar of Vishnu.

No, you need to read my answers more carefully. I was not comparing Hinduism to Buddhism and I am fully aware that Buddhism is an off-shoot of Hinduism.

kenan said:
And, I'm also looking at all this from a pan-religious and secular view: when arguing theological and philosophical cases, I take all religions and view points into account and make a decision based on the evidence present.

This is not a theological or philosophical debate.

kenan said:
Finally, the last point you made is completely incorrect. Being a Muslim convert yourself I'm sure you would understand that Muslim is the Arabic word for "one who submits to God". Therefore, we are all, in an Arabic sense, Muslims.

How is this relevant? and no, we are not all Muslims, that's simply a play on words. "Doctor" is the Latin word for "teacher", this does not make all Doctors "teachers" and viceversa.

kenan said:
Also, Christianity and Islam are completely compatible. It's just the believers that aren't.

No, they are not compatible. That statement is absurd. If you adhere to Biblical Christianity, then you are not a Muslim. If you adhere to Orthodox Islam, then you are no longer a Christian. Both faiths (based off of the Holy Bible and Quran) cannot be true.

kenan said:
If they were around, I'm sure that Muhammad and Jesus Christ would be good mates because they both shared similar religious and political views and have had similar life experiences.

LOL.

kenan said:
Gabriel Ali said:
The Holy Bible was completed about half a millennium before the Quran. From a secular perspective, the stories found within the Quran hold no historical value, while those found in the Old and New Testament do.

From a secular and scientific perspective, the stories found within the Qur'an and the Bible are both absolute bull.

Wrong. If you browse our Biblical History & Archaeology forum, you will see that many of the historical details in the Old and New Testament have been confirmed, while the distorted biblical stories found within the Quran are simply based off of them.

If you look at biblical and quranic history through a purely secular perspective, you must discount all supernatural involvement. This would mean that the words in the Quran are not divine revelations from Allah, but the words of Mohammad, and as he was several hundreds and thousands of years removed from the actual events in history he was describing...his words are worthless.

kenan said:
Think about it a minute, won't you? A man sent from God to save the world from sin? Some Arab preaching one God who will burn you if you don't believe in him? God doesn't even exist :screwloose (sarcasm)

Once again, you've misunderstood me. Think about it a minute, won't you?

kenan said:
Gabriel Ali said:
Also, Historians are agreed that the Bible stories found within the Quran differ so much, because Mohammad was illiterate, thus his knowledge of the Jewish and Christian scriptures were from second-hand sources. For example; Mohammad assumed that the Trinity consisted of “the Father (God), the Mother (Virgin Mary) and the Son (Jesus)†he thought this due to at that time there being a small heretical sect who also taught this doctrine. Mohammad incorrectly assumed that this was common Biblical teaching.

Which historians?

I will try to gather some sources when I have the time, but regardless; Mohammad's misunderstandings concerning the Trinity doctrine is an indisputable fact.

kenan said:
Gabriel Ali said:
This is not a theological debate, and this topic is very important as the “same God†claim is the number one tool used by Muslims to proselytize Christians and Jews.

I think that Christians should use the same 'tool' that the Muslims are using because God knows that their tool is working, their religion is the second largest in the world and, except for the Sunni-Shi'ite conflict, they're a tight knit community who are united in one goal: the universal acceptance and worship of their God.

Yes, they're the second largest faith in the world and they have been for some time, how is that relevant? Islam receives 135,000 converts a year, while Christianity receives a massive 6 Million converts a year. Islam has not grown out of popularity, its out of extremely high birthrate figures (Average 1 to 2 children per Christian couples/Average 5 to 6 children per Muslim couples - UK figures), fear of death for Apostasy and the supression of other faiths in Muslim Majority countries. None of this has slowed the spread of Christianity in the East, and these are not things I would like to see emulated in Christian societies. Once again, this is all irrelevant.

kenan said:
Gabriel Ali said:
Righteousness in Islam is not necessarily the same righteousness found in Christianity.

An empty and incorrect statement. Righteousness in Islam is based on the same principals as righteousness in Christianity: Muslims submit to one God and accept Muhammad as a prophet of God and follow in his example, which was one of perfect adherence to his God's laws. Christians submit to 'one' God (I should say here that I believe the Trinity doctrine is baloney, but I'm not here to discuss that) and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and follow in his example, which was exemplified by his love towards mankind and his non-violence.

No, its not an empty and incorrect statement. Righteousness in Islam is based on adhering to its laws, and many of those laws are in direct conflict with Christian ones.

kenan said:
Gabriel Ali said:
What I am disputing is the Islamic claim that "Allah" is "Yahweh" the Jewish and Christian God. This is a hollow statement that has remained unsubstantiated by Muslims and is taken on faith alone.To prove this claim from a secular perspective one must provide evidence that the concept of "Allah" originated from and was inspired into creation by the Jewish and Christian God "Yahweh" found in the Holy Bible. This claim has already been refuted by archaeological finds which prove Allah in fact originated from a pagan idol and not Yahweh of the Bible, and that the Abrahamic elements (including the 'one true god' stance) were added later by Mohammad specifically to convert Christians and Jews. This thread does not deal with the origin of the word “Allahâ€Â, it deals with the origin of the god “Allahâ€Â.

:nono

God's existence at this point in time and, for as far as I can see into the future, is and will be considered unsubstantiated by the scientific community due to lack of evidence. You can look at it however you will, but the fact is that, in the end God cannot be proven to be real or imaginary, and we as believers have only faith alone to justify His existence. One could just say "look in a bible, there is your proof", but the bible is a very ancient collection of texts containing many books collected over thousands of years from unknown sources, and considering that it has been translated from hebrew, greek and aramaic to Latin by biased CC translators, and then into English by biased translators, and then into English again using this "thought by thought" method which has become the most widely spread translation method of today (NIV. Can I say any more?), you cannot deny that the Bible has been corrupted over the years.

Again and again and again, you misunderstand me. I'm (obviously) aware that God cannot be proven by science, and that was not what I was referring to when I spoke of "unsubstantiated" claims.

Here's a diagram I made to help you understand:

[attachment=0:2ogpkti6]Origin of Allah.JPG[/attachment:2ogpkti6]

kenan said:
You say that there has been archaeological evidence that Allah was just one god among many of the pre-Islamic Arabian gods. This is true,

Yes!! Hallelujah and praise the Lord, you have finally understood the whole purpose of this thread and have even gone so far as to confirm my view as correct. Case Closed.


kenan said:
but I challenge you to prove to me that Yahweh did not 'descent' from a pagan idol, such as Aten. What if the Israelites who left Egypt simply believed in an Egyptian god who they believed to be above all others?

I couldn't care less for your challenge. This thread is about the origin of "Allah" not "Yahweh". Everything (other than what I have highlighted in red) was off-topic. So in the future, please stay on-topic.

Thanks.
 
this makes no sense.

Arab Christians call God "Allah", which literally translates to "THE God". I don't understand why you go at great lengths to try to disprove that Allah is some different entity. Jews, Christians, Muslims all believe in THE God, and as such all believe in ALLAH.
 
...in the Arabic language "Allah" means "God". When Muslims become Christians, they still use the word "Allah" in reference to God, since that is the Arabic word for "God"....So these converts to Christianity continue to pray to Allah.

Allah is the word used for "the god/God" in Arabic: Christian Arabs also use it just as we use God and Lord and different people with different languages use their own words (eg Gott in German) to name God. That is the true origin of the word Allah....

rasheemo said:
this makes no sense.

Arab Christians call God "Allah", which literally translates to "THE God". I don't understand why you go at great lengths to try to disprove that Allah is some different entity. Jews, Christians, Muslims all believe in THE God, and as such all believe in ALLAH.


I'm not going to continually rehash my old posts to the same objections, I've stated my reasoning quite clearly several times over. If you do not agree with them, then that's your prerogative.
 
So you're saying that Christian Arabs who say Allah are in fact disbelievers? or what?
 
rasheemo said:
So you're saying that Christian Arabs who say Allah are in fact disbelievers? or what?

No, the Allah that Christian Arabs use is Allah in the literal sense, i.e. "the God/god". The Allah that Muslims use is a proper noun for all intents and purposes, referring to an actual God rather than any generic god.
 
Allah means God to Mohammadeans and Christians of semitic heritage. In Islam, Allah is defined as the God of Abraham, the one true God, and creator of the universe. Where the word might have originated is of no significance.

The Islamic practice of saying God's name is Allah seems no different from the Christian practice of assigning various names to God.
 
Of course its of significance. Allah is not only the word for “God†in Arabic, its also considered the personal name of the god in Islam and that god originated from Arab paganism not Judaism. To a Muslim it may not be of any importance because they accept the words of Mohammad recorded in the Quran as divine so “Allah†is the god of the Christians and Jews, but from a non-Muslim and historical perspective Allah as found in the Quran and Yahweh as found in the Holy Bible evolved separately, thus they cannot be the same god.

The Shahada is one of the five pillars of Islam and is the Islamic creed. It reads “LÄ ilaha illa al-LÄÂh, Muhammadun rasÅ«lu al-LÄÂhâ€Â, literally translated as “There is no god but Allah, Mohammad is the messenger of Allahâ€Â

As is evident, the word for “god†in Arabic was originally “ilaha†or “ilah†and this is the word used throughout the Quran unless referring to the Islamic deity by name. “There is no ilaha (god) but Allah, Mohammad is the messenger of Allahâ€Â

"O my people! Worship Allah! You have no other Ilah (God) but Him.†Quran 7:59

"Allah" was not originally the Arabic term for "god" but the personal name of the pagan/Islamic deity, while the personal name of the Jeudo-Christian ilah/god was never "Allah" but always "Yahweh".
 
Gabriel Ali said:
To a Muslim it may not be of any importance because they accept the words of Mohammad recorded in the Quran as divine so “Allah†is the god of the Christians and Jews, but from a non-Muslim and historical perspective Allah as found in the Quran and Yahweh as found in the Holy Bible evolved separately, thus they cannot be the same god.

All you've shown is that the Arabic word for God does not come from the Hebrew word for God. I doubt many Arabic words are direct derivations of Hebrew. But, a rose by any other name is still a rose. Or, consider the name Jesus. Jesus may have evolved from Christ's name, but J-e-s-u-s is not what Christ ever called himself. Does that mean millions of Christians have been worshiping a false Christ?

I don't believe the God of Abraham inspired the Qu'ran. Just out of curiosity, which god do you think inspired the Talmud?
 
Some of the biggest misconceptions that many non-Muslims have about Islam have to do with the word "Allah". For various reasons, many people have come to believe that Muslims worship a different God than Christians and Jews. This is totally false, since "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for "God" - and there is only One God. Let there be no doubt - Muslims worship the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus - peace be upon them all. However, it is certainly true that Jews, Christians and Muslims all have different concepts of Almighty God. For example, Muslims - like Jews - reject the Christian beliefs of the Trinity and the Divine Incarnation. This, however, doesn't mean that each of these three religions worships a different God - because, as we have already said, there is only One True God. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be "Abrahamic Faiths", and all of them are also classified as "monotheistic". However, Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas.

First of all, it is important to note that "Allah" is the same word that Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews use for God. If you pick up an Arabic Bible, you will see the word "Allah" being used where "God" is used in English. This is because "Allah" is the only word in the Arabic language *****alent to the English word "God" with a capital "G". Additionally, the word "Allah" cannot be made plural or given gender (i.e. masculine or feminine), which goes hand-in-hand with the Islamic concept of God. Because of this, and also because the Qur'an, which is the holy ******ure of Muslims, was revealed in the Arabic language, some Muslims use the word "Allah" for "God", even when they are speaking other languages. This is not unique to the word "Allah", since many Muslims tend to use Arabic words when discussing Islamic issues, regardless of the language which they speak. This is because the universal teachings of Islam - even though they have been translated in every major language - have been preserved in the Arabic language.

It is interesting to note that the Aramaic word "El", which is the word for God in the language that Jesus spoke, is certainly more similar in sound to the word "Allah" than the English word "God". This also holds true for the various Hebrew words for God, which are "El" and "Elah", and the plural form "Elohim". The reason for these similarities is that Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic are all Semitic languages with common origins. It should also be noted that in translating the Bible into English, the Hebrew word "El" is translated variously as "God", "god" and "angel"! This imprecise language allows different translators, based on their preconceived notions, to translate the word to fit their own views. The Arabic word "Allah" presents no such difficulty or ambiguity, since it is only used for Almighty God alone. Additionally, in English, the only difference between "god", meaning a false god, and "God", meaning the One True God, is the capital "G". In the Arabic alphabet, since it does not have capital letters, the word for God (i.e. Allah) is formed by adding the *****alent to the English word "the" (Al-) to the Arabic word for "god/God" (ilah). So the Arabic word "Allah" literally it means "The God" - the "Al-" in Arabic basically serving the same function as the capital "G" in English. Due to the above mentioned facts, a more accurate translation of the word "Allah" into English might be "The One -and-Only God" or "The One True God".

More importantly, it should also be noted that the Arabic word "Allah" contains a deep religious message due to its root meaning and origin. This is because it stems from the Arabic verb ta'allaha (or alaha), which means "to be worshipped". Thus in Arabic, the word "Allah" means "The One who deserves all worship". This, in a nut****l, is the Pure Monotheistic message of Islam. You see, according to Islam, "monotheism" is much more than simply believing in the existence of "only One God" - as seemingly opposed to two, three or more. If one understands the root meaning of the word "Allah", this point should become clear. One should understand that Islam's criticism of the other religions that claim to be "monotheistic" is not because they are "polytheistic" in the classic sense, but because they direct various forms of worship to other than Almighty God. We will discuss the meaning of worship in Islam below, however, before moving on it should be noted that many non-Muslims are unaware of the distinction between simply believing in the existence of only One God and reserving all worship for Him alone. Many Christians are painfully unaware of this point, and thus you often find them asking how Muslims can accuse the followers of Jesus, peace be upon him, of being "polytheists" when they were all "monotheistic Jews". First of all, it should be clarified that the word "polytheist" doesn't really sound right in this con****, since to many it implies simply believing in the existence of more than one God. So in an Islamic con****, "associators", "man-worshippers" or "creature worshippers" might be more accurate and appropriate terms - especially since Christians believe Jesus to be both "100% God and 100% man", while still paying lip-service to God's "Oneness". However, as we're previously touched upon, what is really at the root of this problem is the fact that Christians - as well as the members of other religions - don't really know what "monotheism" means - especially in the Islamic sense. All of the books, articles and papers that I've read which were written by Christians invariably limit "monotheism" to believing in the existence of "One Sovereign and Creator God". Islam, however, teaches much more than this.

Suffice it to say that just because someone claims to be a "monotheistic" Jew, Christian or Muslim, that doesn't keep them from falling into corrupt beliefs and idolatrous practices. Many people, including some Muslims, claim belief in "One God" even though they've fallen into acts of idolatry. Certainly, many Protestants accuse Roman Catholics of idolatrous practices in regards to the saints and the Virgin Mary. Likewise, the Greek Orthodox Church is considered "idolatrous" by many other Christians because in much of their worship they use icons. However, if you ask a Roman Catholic or a Greek Orthodox person if God is "One", they will invariably answer: "Yes!". This lip-service, however, does not stop them from being "creature worshipping" idolaters. The same goes for Hindus, who just consider their gods to be "manifestations" or "incarnations" of the One Supreme God.

Everyone should be aware of the fact that throughout the long history of the "Abrahamic Faiths", there have people who, while believing in "One God", have adopted beliefs and practices that completely nullify their claim to "monotheism". This is the Muslim view of Christians. We're well aware of the fact that they claim belief in "One God" with their lips, but this doesn't mean that they don't nullify their claim in other ways. This is because many people simply haven't been taught everything that Pure Monotheism entails. From an Islamic point of view, "monotheism" can be nullified in many ways. For example, simply believing that it is permissible to rule by Western "liberal" and "democratic" laws in lieu of the Divinely Revealed Law of Almighty God makes one a "polytheist". Certainly, a person who does such a thing, whether Jewish, Christian or Muslim, doesn't ever believe that there is another Almighty Creator and Sovereign Lord. However, for all practical purposes, such a person has take another "god", whether they choose to admit it or not. In this way they are associating partners with Almighty God (Arabic: shirk), and thus become a "polytheist" in a practical sense, regardless of their lip-service to "monotheism". This holds true even if the person doesn't believe what they are doing is "worship". For example, Roman Catholics who pray to the Virgin Mary will staunchly deny that they are "worshipping" her. They instead call it "adoration" or some other watered-down term. However, from an Islamic point of view, what is worship if not this? Islam teaches that prayer and supplication are the marrow of worship, so if one directs their prayers to an intermediary (even if the pray is "ultimately" meant for God), then what is left of worship? Additionally, how can someone who believes in Almighty God follow man-made laws instead of God's Law, without admitting that they've begun worshipping other than God? Do they know better than God?

Additionally, the Old Testament makes it perfectly clear that making a "graven image" of any created thing (not to mention ones which are supposed to "represent" Almighty God) is prohibited. Please see Exodus 20:4-6, Leviticus 26:1 and Deuteronomy 4:16, 23, 25, 5:8 and Nehemiah 9:6 for some statements in regards to this point. Without addressing the issue that Christians commonly violate the unambiguous commandment not to even "make" representations of anything that is in the "heavens above or on the earth beneath", these verses not only teach that worshipping idols is prohibited, but also that Almighty God is eternally distinct from His creation and thus nothing in His creation can represent Him. To believe otherwise is to be a de facto idol worshipper - even if one claims belief in one, and only one, "True God". In Exodus 20:4-6 and Deuteronomy 4:16, Almighty God - who is a "Jealous God" - makes it perfectly clear that He is distinct from His creation.

By giving such clear and merciful guidance to human beings, God is establishing a universal and eternal Truth for the benefit of mankind. This eternal Truth is the bedrock of religious guidance, since once people begin to believe that Almighty God mixes with or can be represented by His creation, they can be duped into believing almost anything. Once someone accepts that God has become "incarnate" in His creation, or that someone or something is a "manifestation" - and thus representation - of Him, the floodgates are open and "Truth" becomes a matter of subjective guesswork. Once the first and most basic concept is violated - regardless of how complicated and sophisticated the rationale for it might be - it is very easy to fall further and further away from the Eternal Truth of Pure Monotheism. In the final analysis, it is not a question of whether God is capable of becoming a man, but rather a question of whether one bases their beliefs about God on clear, unambiguous and authentic guidance. Once it is left up to the human mind to decide what Almighty God can and cannot do, the stage is set for misguidance to take root. Human speculation about God only ends up leading to misguidance and despair, since no clear conclusions can ever be reached. For example, is God capable of creating an object so heavy that He is incapable of moving it? If not, does that mean that He is incapable? It is because of misguided questions like this that Islam clearly teaches that mankind should only say about God what He has said about Himself. This means all of our ideas about God must be based on Revelation - not human speculation. In short, the final prophet of Islam - Muhammad - was sent by Almighty God to preach the same Pure Monotheism that was practiced by Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus - peace be upon them all. This Pure Monotheism means not only believing that there is only One God in existence, but realizing that He is transcedent above His creation and that all worship is due to Him alone.

Before concluding, we should probably address the practice of those Muslims who insist on using the Arabic word "Allah" even when speaking English. Even though this practice certainly is not to be condemned when it is done around those who understand the meaning of the Arabic word "Allah", it is my experience - both during my years as a non-Muslim and my years as a Muslim - that such a practice can (and usually does) breed misunderstanding. It seems that often times, many of the Muslims who use the word "Allah" in lieu of the word "God", even when trying to attract people to Islam, are unaware of the severe misunderstandings that many non-Muslims have about Islam (and the distorted way which Islam has been portrayed in the West). Insisting on using the word "Allah" only fuels the flames of misunderstanding - so there's no good reason to do it. I've often wondered what value some Muslims think that using the word "Allah" adds to the Pure Message that they are trying to convey. ( . . . and I'm still waiting for an answer!) Unfortunately, those Muslims who insist on using the word "Allah" even when addressing non-Muslims who are unfamiliar with Islam and the Arabic language, do both a disservice to themselves and their religion. Unfortunately, this practice is usually based on the false assumption - by a non-native speaker of English - that the word "God" in English is incapable of expressing a pure and proper belief in Almighty God. This is certainly false. If someone says that the English word "God" cannot be used to express the Pure Islamic Belief in Tawhid, they are wrong not because they don't understand Tawhid, but simply because they don't understand the English language. Many people who insist on using the Arabic word "Allah" usually don't realize this, because in reality, they are not so much affirming the word "Allah" as they are rejecting the word "God" as unsuitable - based on incorrect assumptions. For someone to assume that the word "God" presupposes a certain theological point-of-view (such as the Trinity) is simply Wrong - and that's Wrong with a capital "W". To say the word "God" should be rejected because it can be changed into "god", "gods" or "goddess" is illogical because each of these words has a distinctive meaning and a distinctive spelling - at least to someone who knows how to speak English correctly. Using the same logic, I can demonstrate that the root letters "ktb" can be used to form the Arabic words "kitab" (book), "maktabah" (library), "maktab" (office) and "kaatib" (writer), but does that mean that these words have the same meaning? Do Arabic-speaking people go through life confusing libraries with writers and offices with books (both in conversation and in reality)? I think not! This is not to mention the fact that if the Arabic "Al-" was put in front of these words in order to make them definite, confusion would be even less likely! So the logic in both cases is the same, and this is because even though the same letters are used in "God" and "god", these two words have two different meanings in the English language. The capital "G" implies something different than the small "g" - and anyone who denies this simply doesn't know how to speak the English language.

In concluding this point, it should be mentioned that Arabic-speaking Muslims who believe in Pure Tawhid, Arabic-speaking Christians, the idol worshippers of Mecca and (so-called) Muslims who believe in "Wahdat al-Wujud" all use the word "Allah". However, does this guarantee all of them proper belief in "Allah"? Certainly not, because if they have a corrupt concept of "Allah" it doesn't matter what word they use!

This brings us to a more important point: It should be clearly understood that what Islam is primarily concerned with is correcting mankind's concept of Almighty God. What we are ultimately going to be held accountable at the end of our life is not whether we prefer the word "Allah" over the word "God", but what our concept of God is. Language is only a side issue. A person can have an incorrect concept of God while using the word "Allah", and likewise a person can have a correct concept of God while using the word "God". This is because both of these words are equally capable of being misused and being improperly defined. As we've already mentioned, using the word "Allah" no more insinuates belief in the Unity of God than the use of the word "God" insinuates belief in the Trinity - or any other theological opinion. Naturally, when God sends a revelation to mankind through a prophet, He is going to send it in a language that the people who receive it can understand and relate to. Almighty God makes this clear in the Qur'an, when He states:

"Never did We send a Messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people in order to make (things) clear to them."

(Qur'an, Chapter 14 - "Abraham", Verse 4)

As Muslims, we think that it is unfortunate that we have to go into details on such seemingly minor issues, but so many falsehoods have been heaped upon our religion, that we feel that it is our duty to try to break down the barriers of falsehood. This isn't always easy, since there is a lot of anti-Islamic literature in existence which tries to make Islam look like something strange and foreign to Westerners. There are some people out there, who are obviously not on the side of truth, that want to get people to believe that "Allah" is just some Arabian "god", and that Islam is completely "other" - meaning that it has no common roots with the other Abrahamic religions (i.e. Christianity and Judaism). To say that Muslims worship a different "God" because they say "Allah" is just as illogical as saying that French people worship another God because they use the word "Dieu", that Spanish-speaking people worship a different God because they say "Dios" or that the Hebrews worshipped a different God because they sometimes call Him "Yahweh". Certainly, reasoning like this is quite ridiculous! It should also be mentioned, that claiming that any one language uses the only the correct word for God is tantamount to denying the universality of God's message to mankind, which was to all nations, tribes and people through various prophets who spoke different languages.

Before closing, we would like everyone to be aware of the fact that some Christian missionary organizations print English literature intended to teach Christians about Islam which say such things as: "Allah is the god of the Muslims" and that "Muhammad came to get people to believe in the god Allah" - implying that "Allah" is some sort of false "god". However, when these same organizations print literature in the Arabic language, hoping to lead Arabic-speaking Muslims "to Christ", they use the word "Allah" for God. It seems that if they were on the side of truth, they would not have to resort to such inconsistencies. And on an even more ridiculous note . . . there are also missionary organizations that exceed this in ignorance (or deceit) by writing books that call on Muslims to give up their belief in "Allah", and instead worship the "Lord" Jesus, "the Son of God". Besides making it abundantly clear that they are outside the community of Pure Monotheism, the people who write such material don't even realize that if they wrote such a pamphlet in Arabic, it would be self-contradictory. This is because in an Arabic Bible Jesus is the "Son of Allah"! If an Arabic-speaking person gave up the worship of "Allah", they would have no God to worship, since "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for God!

Before we conclude, however, we would like to ask our readers to ask themselves what they think the reasons are behind all of these lies? If Islam was just some false religion that didn't make any sense, would so many people, from Western scholars to Christian missionaries, have to tell so many lies about it? The reason is that the Ultimate Truth of Islam stands on solid ground and its unshakable belief in the Unity of God is above reproach. Due to this, Christians can't criticize its doctrines directly, but instead make up things about Islam that aren't true so that people lose the desire to learn more. If Muslims were able to present Islam in the proper way to people in the West, it surely might make many people reconsider and re-evaluate their own beliefs. It is quite likely that Christians, when they find out that there is a universal religion in the world that teaches people to worship and love God, while also practicing Pure Monotheism, would at least feel that they should re-examine the basis for their own beliefs and doctrines.
 
Gabriel Ali, why do you think the origin of the word "Allah" is so important? I don't know whether or not it originated as a name for a moon-god, but I don't think that makes any difference. It is the current meaning of "Allah" which matters. Current converts from Islam who are now Christian still pray to "Allah" in their own language. By the word, they mean the creator of the universe, as indeed Muslims do.

"Yeshua" is the Hebrew word for "Jesus". The word is translated as "Joshua" in the Old Testament. But does the fact that "Yeshua" was Joshua's name, mean that because "Yeshua" as applied to Joshua was not the Messiah, therefore "Yeshua" as applied to Jesus is not the Messiah? It's only whom the current name denotes which identifies its referent.

The same applies to the word "Allah". Since the current word denotes "The God, the Creator of the Universe", then "Allah" = "Yahweh". The Christians and Jews worship Yahweh, The God, the Creator of the Universe. Muslims worship Allah, The God, the Creator of the Universe.

When we serve "Yeshuah" the Messiah, we are not serving "Yeshua the son of Nun", but we are serving "Yeshua the Son of God."

When Muslims worship Allah, they are not worshipping "Allah the moon-god", they are worshipping "Allah, the God, the Creator of the Universe."

In the current sense, Allah and Yahweh are the same God. This is the only sense which currently counts.
 
Rocksolid said:
All you've shown is that the Arabic word for God does not come from the Hebrew word for God. I doubt many Arabic words are direct derivations of Hebrew. But, a rose by any other name is still a rose. Or, consider the name Jesus. Jesus may have evolved from Christ's name, but J-e-s-u-s is not what Christ ever called himself. Does that mean millions of Christians have been worshiping a false Christ?

I don't believe the God of Abraham inspired the Qu'ran. Just out of curiosity, which god do you think inspired the Talmud?

No, I have shown that “Allah†is not only the word for “God†in the Arabic language, but also (unlike the word “God†for Western Christians) is the personal name of the Islamic deity, a deity who was originally a pagan Idol which Mohammad and his tribe (the Quraysh) used to worship at the Kabah.

I'm not claiming anyone is worshipping a false god because of what they choose to call him. I am simply showing that the continuity the Muslims claim or believe is false, something which you yourself agree with.
 
Hope Flame said:
Some of the biggest misconceptions that many non-Muslims have about Islam have to do with the word "Allah". For various reasons, many people have come to believe that Muslims worship a different God than Christians and Jews. This is totally false, since "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for "God" - and there is only One God. Let there be no doubt - Muslims worship the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus - peace be upon them all. However, it is certainly true that Jews, Christians and Muslims all have different concepts of Almighty God. For example, Muslims - like Jews - reject the Christian beliefs of the Trinity and the Divine Incarnation. This, however, doesn't mean that each of these three religions worships a different God - because, as we have already said, there is only One True God. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be "Abrahamic Faiths", and all of them are also classified as "monotheistic". However, Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas.

I'm not and I never have disputed the current usage of the word “Allahâ€Â.

Hope Flame said:
First of all, it is important to note that "Allah" is the same word that Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews use for God. If you pick up an Arabic Bible, you will see the word "Allah" being used where "God" is used in English. This is because "Allah" is the only word in the Arabic language *****alent to the English word "God" with a capital "G". Additionally, the word "Allah" cannot be made plural or given gender (i.e. masculine or feminine), which goes hand-in-hand with the Islamic concept of God. Because of this, and also because the Qur'an, which is the holy ******ure of Muslims, was revealed in the Arabic language, some Muslims use the word "Allah" for "God", even when they are speaking other languages. This is not unique to the word "Allah", since many Muslims tend to use Arabic words when discussing Islamic issues, regardless of the language which they speak. This is because the universal teachings of Islam - even though they have been translated in every major language - have been preserved in the Arabic language.

It is interesting to note that the Aramaic word "El", which is the word for God in the language that Jesus spoke, is certainly more similar in sound to the word "Allah" than the English word "God". This also holds true for the various Hebrew words for God, which are "El" and "Elah", and the plural form "Elohim". The reason for these similarities is that Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic are all Semitic languages with common origins. It should also be noted that in translating the Bible into English, the Hebrew word "El" is translated variously as "God", "god" and "angel"! This imprecise language allows different translators, based on their preconceived notions, to translate the word to fit their own views. The Arabic word "Allah" presents no such difficulty or ambiguity, since it is only used for Almighty God alone. Additionally, in English, the only difference between "god", meaning a false god, and "God", meaning the One True God, is the capital "G". In the Arabic alphabet, since it does not have capital letters, the word for God (i.e. Allah) is formed by adding the *****alent to the English word "the" (Al-) to the Arabic word for "god/God" (ilah). So the Arabic word "Allah" literally it means "The God" - the "Al-" in Arabic basically serving the same function as the capital "G" in English. Due to the above mentioned facts, a more accurate translation of the word "Allah" into English might be "The One -and-Only God" or "The One True God".

Incorrect. There is a feminine form for the word “Allah†and that is “"Al-Lat" one of the daughters of Allah.

And I can cite Islamic sources who disagree with you and agree with my assertion that “Allah†is in fact the personal name for their god and the word “God†is an inaccurate rendering and should not be used in translation.

Hope Flame said:
Before we conclude, however, we would like to ask our readers to ask themselves what they think the reasons are behind all of these lies? If Islam was just some false religion that didn't make any sense, would so many people, from Western scholars to Christian missionaries, have to tell so many lies about it? The reason is that the Ultimate Truth of Islam stands on solid ground and its unshakable belief in the Unity of God is above reproach. Due to this, Christians can't criticize its doctrines directly, but instead make up things about Islam that aren't true so that people lose the desire to learn more. If Muslims were able to present Islam in the proper way to people in the West, it surely might make many people reconsider and re-evaluate their own beliefs. It is quite likely that Christians, when they find out that there is a universal religion in the world that teaches people to worship and love God, while also practicing Pure Monotheism, would at least feel that they should re-examine the basis for their own beliefs and doctrines.

Actually, being an ex-Muslim I have successfully debated several Muslims on this site and have tackled Islamic doctrines directly.

Also, please cite the source for your huge copy-n-paste.
 
Paidion said:
Gabriel Ali, why do you think the origin of the word "Allah" is so important? I don't know whether or not it originated as a name for a moon-god, but I don't think that makes any difference. It is the current meaning of "Allah" which matters. Current converts from Islam who are now Christian still pray to "Allah" in their own language. By the word, they mean the creator of the universe, as indeed Muslims do.

"Yeshua" is the Hebrew word for "Jesus". The word is translated as "Joshua" in the Old Testament. But does the fact that "Yeshua" was Joshua's name, mean that because "Yeshua" as applied to Joshua was not the Messiah, therefore "Yeshua" as applied to Jesus is not the Messiah? It's only whom the current name denotes which identifies its referent.

The same applies to the word "Allah". Since the current word denotes "The God, the Creator of the Universe", then "Allah" = "Yahweh". The Christians and Jews worship Yahweh, The God, the Creator of the Universe. Muslims worship Allah, The God, the Creator of the Universe.

When we serve "Yeshuah" the Messiah, we are not serving "Yeshua the son of Nun", but we are serving "Yeshua the Son of God."

When Muslims worship Allah, they are not worshipping "Allah the moon-god", they are worshipping "Allah, the God, the Creator of the Universe."

In the current sense, Allah and Yahweh are the same God. This is the only sense which currently counts.

As I have repeated many times, I do not think the origin of the word "Allah" is important, the origin of the god "Allah" is the important issue. Its important because the “one god†claim is what is used to proselytize Christians and Jews. When Muslims come to this board and twist their own scripture to make it more palatable for the Christians I tackle their lies head-on, this is no different.

Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan god worshipped (along-side his daughters) at the Kabah by Mohammad and his tribe. When Mohammad began his career as a “warrior Prophet†he claimed this god as his own to ease the process of converting his own people. He then claimed that this god is the same god the Christians and Jews worship, this again was to aid in converting the people.

Yes, Muslims worship a god who they believe is "the God of Abraham" but historically this was not the case for Mohammad himself.
 
[quote="Gabriel Ali]As I have repeated many times, I do not think the origin of the word "Allah" is important, the origin of the god "Allah" is the important issue. Its important because the “one god†claim is what is used to proselytize Christians and Jews. When Muslims come to this board and twist their own scripture to make it more palatable for the Christians I tackle their lies head-on, this is no different.[/quote]

You're saying that Islamic scripture, the Qu'ran, teaches polytheism. And, that Mohammadans lie to convert Christians by claiming that they believe in one God. Sir, that's off the reservation. BTW: Who inspired the Talmud, the God of Abraham or the god of Mohammad?
 
Rocksolid said:
You're saying that Islamic scripture, the Qu'ran, teaches polytheism. And, that Mohammadans lie to convert Christians by claiming that they believe in one God. Sir, that's off the reservation. BTW: Who inspired the Talmud, the God of Abraham or the god of Mohammad?

No, you've misunderstood me. Islamic scripture does not teach polytheism and Muslims do not lie about believing in one God to convert Christians, Jews or anybody else. I was simply pointing-out that this is what they use to aid conversions, and when I said “twist their own scripture†I was referring to separate issues regarding Homosexuality, Apostasy etc. and other than the fact that the Talmud is Jewish scripture, I know very little of it.
 
Gabriel Ali said:
Rocksolid said:
You're saying that Islamic scripture, the Qu'ran, teaches polytheism. And, that Mohammadans lie to convert Christians by claiming that they believe in one God. Sir, that's off the reservation. BTW: Who inspired the Talmud, the God of Abraham or the god of Mohammad?

No, you've misunderstood me. Islamic scripture does not teach polytheism and Muslims do not lie about believing in one God to convert Christians, Jews or anybody else. I was simply pointing-out that this is what they use to aid conversions, and when I said “twist their own scripture†I was referring to separate issues regarding Homosexuality, Apostasy etc. and other than the fact that the Talmud is Jewish scripture, I know very little of it.

You said, "It's important because the 'one god' claim is what is used to proselytize Christians and Jews. When Muslims come to this board and twist their own scripture to make it more palatable for the Christians I tackle their lies head-on, this is no different." I don't know how to take that other than you are claiming that Mohammadans are polytheists and that they are consciously lying when they claim to be monotheists. (You have already argued that Allah is the moon god of a pantheon of Arab gods.) You weren't talking about separate issues regarding homosexuality, etc.

As for my question, who inspired the Talmud, the God of Abraham or the god of Mohammad? I knew you wouldn't answer. You are not engaged in an honest critique of the Semitic religion of Islam, but you are engaged in anti-Semitic bashing.
 
Paidion said:
Gabriel Ali, why do you think the origin of the word "Allah" is so important?

Rocksolid: That is the question I was answering. If you would care to notice, I finished that sentence off with "this is no different." meaning I will address this misconception as I would address any other. If I were to claim that "Muslims are polytheists and that they are consciously lying when they claim to be monotheists" I would not then deny this in my very next post.

Rocksolid said:
As for my question, who inspired the Talmud, the God of Abraham or the god of Mohammad? I knew you wouldn't answer. You are not engaged in an honest critique of the Semitic religion of Islam, but you are engaged in anti-Semitic bashing.

LOL. I've been called many things; bigot, Islamophobe, racist (ridiculous considering my race) but never anti-Semitic. If you think I'm going to answer your question (a question originally claimed to be asked "Just out of curiosity") when I know next-to-nothing about the subject, you are wrong and accusing me of anti-Semitism is not going to change that.

I'll admit I'm not always right, but that's a far cry from dishonesty. I have never lied about Islamic doctrine or culture as I personally (and as the majority of Muslims) understand it.
 
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