The Two Gospels

[DarcyLu]

hi glory, i'm learning some things and feel inadequate answering your post i can guarantee, with my limited knowledge on certain scripture and understanding right now, i would re create an entire new doctrine and then there would be a 3rd gospel.
Blessings to you -

 

[glorydaz]

hi glory, i'm learning some things and feel inadequate answering your post i can guarantee, with my limited knowledge on certain scripture and understanding right now, i would re create an entire new doctrine and then there would be a 3rd gospel.
Blessings to you -

Oh, honey...please don't do that. We have too many floating around as it is. :biglaugh

 

[DarcyLu]

hi glory, i'm learning some things and feel inadequate answering your post i can guarantee, with my limited knowledge on certain scripture and understanding right now, i would re create an entire new doctrine and then there would be a 3rd gospel.
Blessings to you -

Oh, honey...please don't do that. We have too many floating around as it is. :biglaugh

:rolling

 

[veteran]

The Kingdom is in us. Nobody can deny that, but we can Praise the Lord
Flesh and blood doesn't "inherit" no of course not veteran. Nobody is saying that. You are altogether missing the point. All scripture must harmonize.
We who "bend the knee" are those "everyone".
Those who don't are those who are destroyed. The ones who bend the knee are eternal.
The Kingdom in us grows and grows and grows... until when this body is put off, we all who are brethren in the body of Christ then are as He is Now! (Which is NOT in a body veteran! That is silliness.)
He is IN US. Christ in you. Christ in me. That is why He said He had to be Glorified in order to "Come".
We are all one by His Resurrected and Glorified Spirit of Holiness in us.
That is the Kingdom of God on the earth. WE ARE THE EARTH.
Christ is in us and He gushes out from us as Living Water by His Glorified Spirit in us, that is what He is trying to tell you and me here...

Well I'm glad to hear you say most of the above, because of course I believe the 'spiritual' part of Christ's Kingdom is indeed manifested today through His servants by The Holy Spirit. Yet today is not God's Kingdom on earth, and we certainly are not the earth literaly. Furthermore, the River of the waters of life is not just some mystical 'religious' expression in God's Word, it is a literal River that will be manifested on earth, as it was once before (Ezekiel 47; Genesis 2).

And God's Word actually makes a distinction between the Kingdom of Christ and His delivering it up to The Father in final (1 Cor.15:23-28). It's that last part about the Kingdom where this matter between the OP and I have been debating from another thread.

To get those here up-to-date on that debate, here's the gist of it...

There is an effort today by some, to get Christians who allow it, to believe that Christ's Kingdom is only meant in the 'spiritual' sense, and that there is no literal return of our Lord Jesus back to this earth. An idea like Christ's second coming is already past, is part of that false idea, because they declare Christ's return is only a spiritual meaning, and not a literal event. Some go even further outside God's Word and add the false doctrine that the resurrection is past also.

Those type of doctrines are coming from men, and not God's Word, because God's Word shows Christ's return will be literal, that there will be a literal change from our flesh bodies to the "spiritual body" type, a resurrection body like what John referred to when we shall see Christ as He is (1 John 3:2). Revelation 5 also declares that the saints will rule with Christ Jesus, and it will be "on the earth". Revelation 20 further shows that reign will be at a place on earth called "the camp of the saints" and "the beloved city" which is "upon the breadth of the earth".

When our Lord Jesus said many will come from the east and west, and sit down in the kingdom of God with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, that was not a spiritual metaphor for some mystical kingdom. It's about the time of God's literal Kingdom to come being established on this earth, and the wicked cast to the "outer darkness". It's about the time when the Holy City New Jerusalem is established on the earth. That is the "beloved city" of Rev.20 where the future "camp of the saints" will be.

But what's happenning on earth today? The wicked are trying to setup a fake copy of all that; that's why the deceived leave off mention of the idea of the literal Kingdom of God yet to come on this earth with Christ's literal return, and with the wicked actually bowing the knee in front of Christ at His Judgment Seat.

Rom 14:10
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
(KJV)

Phil 2:9-11
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(KJV)

Rom 14:11-12
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
(KJV)

 

[glorydaz]

I believe in a Christ's literal return to a new heaven and earth, but I don't see a future 1000 yr. kingdom the way Veteran does. I believe the thousand years is a symbolic number from the time of the cross until His second coming. But that's for the prophecy thread, because Veteran and I could go round and round on that one. :biglaugh

 

[Son of Israel]

The Kingdom is in us. Nobody can deny that, but we can Praise the Lord
Flesh and blood doesn't "inherit" no of course not veteran. Nobody is saying that. You are altogether missing the point. All scripture must harmonize.
We who "bend the knee" are those "everyone".
Those who don't are those who are destroyed. The ones who bend the knee are eternal.
The Kingdom in us grows and grows and grows... until when this body is put off, we all who are brethren in the body of Christ then are as He is Now! (Which is NOT in a body veteran! That is silliness.)
He is IN US. Christ in you. Christ in me. That is why He said He had to be Glorified in order to "Come".
We are all one by His Resurrected and Glorified Spirit of Holiness in us.
That is the Kingdom of God on the earth. WE ARE THE EARTH.
Christ is in us and He gushes out from us as Living Water by His Glorified Spirit in us, that is what He is trying to tell you and me here...

Well I'm glad to hear you say most of the above, because of course I believe the 'spiritual' part of Christ's Kingdom is indeed manifested today through His servants by The Holy Spirit. Yet today is not God's Kingdom on earth, and we certainly are not the earth literaly. Furthermore, the River of the waters of life is not just some mystical 'religious' expression in God's Word, it is a literal River that will be manifested on earth, as it was once before (Ezekiel 47; Genesis 2).

And God's Word actually makes a distinction between the Kingdom of Christ and His delivering it up to The Father in final (1 Cor.15:23-28). It's that last part about the Kingdom where this matter between the OP and I have been debating from another thread.

To get those here up-to-date on that debate, here's the gist of it...

There is an effort today by some, to get Christians who allow it, to believe that Christ's Kingdom is only meant in the 'spiritual' sense, and that there is no literal return of our Lord Jesus back to this earth. An idea like Christ's second coming is already past, is part of that false idea, because they declare Christ's return is only a spiritual meaning, and not a literal event. Some go even further outside God's Word and add the false doctrine that the resurrection is past also.

Those type of doctrines are coming from men, and not God's Word, because God's Word shows Christ's return will be literal, that there will be a literal change from our flesh bodies to the "spiritual body" type, a resurrection body like what John referred to when we shall see Christ as He is (1 John 3:2). Revelation 5 also declares that the saints will rule with Christ Jesus, and it will be "on the earth". Revelation 20 further shows that reign will be at a place on earth called "the camp of the saints" and "the beloved city" which is "upon the breadth of the earth".

When our Lord Jesus said many will come from the east and west, and sit down in the kingdom of God with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, that was not a spiritual metaphor for some mystical kingdom. It's about the time of God's literal Kingdom to come being established on this earth, and the wicked cast to the "outer darkness". It's about the time when the Holy City New Jerusalem is established on the earth. That is the "beloved city" of Rev.20 where the future "camp of the saints" will be.

But what's happenning on earth today? The wicked are trying to setup a fake copy of all that; that's why the deceived leave off mention of the idea of the literal Kingdom of God yet to come on this earth with Christ's literal return, and with the wicked actually bowing the knee in front of Christ at His Judgment Seat.

Rom 14:10
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
(KJV)

Phil 2:9-11
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
(KJV)

Rom 14:11-12
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
(KJV)

My knee bows now and my tongue confesses Jesus Christ now as my Lord and my God and I give account to Him even Now and every moment of my existence. It is "future only in as much as 'tomorrow" I will be also, and the next day and the next until this flesh quits breathing. Then I am with Him as HE is, which is NOT some "physical body" LOL!
Veteran, there is no "literall" coming back of Jesus Christ on the earth! You will get a crick in your neck if you think that LOL! That is plain ol' dispensationalism or christian zionism. It is a farce. No wonder you are straining so badly at scriptures. Taking the Spiritual fulness of meaning and trying to warp it back into the physical again LOL. You need to sit at the feet of Christ and start from scratch and throw away that Scofield reference Bible or wherever you get that non-sense from. How many people are you going to pollute their understanding of "Christ in them" to make Him now "somewhere else"? Huh sir??
Is Christ not NOW FULLY WITH YOU? You are beginning to convince me of that with your void understanding of scriptures!
How many people are you going to strip the Kingdom of God out from within their temple bodies of Christ just to force your ideas of a "bodily coming" of Jesus back onto this planet?? What are you? Some kind of a flase prophet promoting a religion of "futurism"? You think everything written in the New Testament concerinng the Kingdom of God on earth was intended to be placed into a 2000 year plus future?? If Paul the apostle was here right now hearing you speak this nonsense he'd smake you right down in a heartbeat.
I've read your posts and you have no clue what scriptures are saying, then you attempt to make them say what you or your religious leader thinks, then you put that forward in mass confusion and entanglement with no harmony whatsoever.
I am done attempting to share truth with you.

 

[veteran]

My knee bows now and my tongue confesses Jesus Christ now as my Lord and my God and I give account Veteran, there is no "literall" coming back of Jesus Christ on the earth!

If you think this world today is how Christ's Kingdom is to be manifested in final, and that He is not returning to this earth bodily, meaning in His Resurrection Body His Apostles saw, then you are greatly deceived and I feel sorry for you. You have obvioulsy omitted much of your Bible in favor of following a bunch of men's traditions that try to replace God's Word. And, you have no real clue of who the Zionists are, because the political group of Zionists today are the very ones who think TODAY it's up to them to establish Christ's Kingdom in the FLESH. But God has prepared a "strong delusion" for them, and for you if you keep denying Christ's bodily return which is written...

Zech 14:1-5
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.
4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
(KJV)

Acts 1:9-12
9 And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, Which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
(KJV)

All I have to do is show Scripture as written to prove you follow doctrines of men, and not God's Word.

 

[Son of Israel]

His kingdom is eternal...there may be some disagreement about whether that kingdom will be on the earth or in heaven, but it certainly isn't a "watered down" Gospel to declare that Christ lives in the heart of every child of God...those who have been born again.

Yet, what you wrote, glory, is what I am seeing it’s all about, it’s extremely important to know if the Kingdom will be here or in heaven. As I read the Word, it appears, He not only lives in our hearts, but we are the kingdom – here, now.
I just want to know with certainty , that is all, and if that is really true, then yes, we have a watered down gospel because it can happen HERE and NOW versus waiting.

Blessings to you.

Darcy, it truly is a simple Gospel You are right as can be in your words above.
Just beware those who have "futuristic" ideas.
It is all NOW. Tomorrow it will still be "all NOW" lol!
Christ is eternal with us. He promises to never leave nor forsake us and to be with us forever!
When this body breathes it's last breath, then we will be with Him and be like Him and see Him as He is!
He is Everywhere! He is All Powerful! He is all Knowing!

He is GOD! And you inherit HIM!

HEIRS OF GOD!

(Rom 8:17) and if children, also heirs, heirs, indeed, of God, and heirs together of Christ--if, indeed, we suffer together, that we may also be glorified together.


Don't let anybody confuse you with ideas of a future "body" or a future "kingdom". That only comes from a mind unable to comprehend the deep Spiritual meanings of God, yet speaking anyway LOL. That's why you don't find anything about such a concept in scriptures. It is ALL NOW.

It is all NOW...
(Luk 14:17) and he sent his servant at the hour of the supper to say to those having been called, Be coming, because now are all things ready.
(Joh 5:25) `Verily, verily, I say to you--There cometh an hour, and it now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and those having heard shall live;
(Joh 12:31) now is a judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast forth;
(Joh 18:36) Jesus answered, `My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, my officers had struggled that I might not be delivered up to Jews; but now my kingdom is not from hence.'

(Act 26:6) and now for the hope of the promise made to the fathers by God, I have stood judged,

(Act 26:7) to which our twelve tribes, intently night and day serving, do hope to come, concerning which hope I am accused, king Agrippa, by the Jews;

(Rom 5:11) And not only so , but we are also boasting in God, through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom now we did receive the reconciliation;

(Rom 3:21) And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets,

(Rom 5:9) much more, then, having been declared righteous now in his blood, we shall be saved through him from the wrath;

(Rom 6:22) And now, having been freed from the sin, and having become servants to God, ye have your fruit--to sanctification, and the end life age-during;
(Rom 8:1) There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;
(Rom 13:11) And this, knowing the time, that for us, the hour already is to be aroused out of sleep, for now nearer is our salvation than when we did believe;

Act 17:28 for in Him we live, and move, and are; as also certain of your poets have said: For of Him also we are offspring.
Act 17:29 `Being, therefore, offspring of God
It's been NOW ever since CJesus told us it was NOW LOL

We Inherit GOD Children grow up to inherit. That is our Gospel message!
This entire universe is barely a speck in the imagination of God.
And we inherit GOD!

This is the BODY WE HAVE AS BY THE WORD OF GOD...

(1Co 12:18) and now, God did set the members each one of them in the body, according as He willed,
(1Co 12:20) and now, indeed, are many members, and one body;
(Rom 12:4) for as in one body we have many members, and all the members have not the same office,
(Rom 12:5) so we, the many, one body are in Christ, and members each one of one another.
(1Co 6:13) the meats are for the belly, and the belly for the meats. And God both this and these shall make useless; and the body is not for whoredom, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body;
(1Co 6:17) And he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit;
(1Co 6:19) Have ye not known that your body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit in you, which ye have from God? and ye are not your own,
(1Co 6:20) for ye were bought with a price; glorify, then, God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.

(1Co 10:16) The cup of the blessing that we bless--is it not the fellowship of the blood of the Christ? the bread that we break--is it not the fellowship of the body of the Christ?
(1Co 10:17) because one bread, one body, are we the many--for we all of the one bread do partake.
(1Co 11:29) for he who is eating and drinking unworthily, judgment to himself he doth eat and drink--not discerning the body of the Lord.
(1Co 12:12) For, even as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the one body, being many, are one body, so also is the Christ,
(1Co 12:13) for also in one Spirit we all to one body were baptized, whether Jews or Greeks, whether servants or freemen, and all into one Spirit were made to drink,
(1Co 12:14) for also the body is not one member, but many;
(1Co 12:18) and now, God did set the members each one of them in the body, according as He willed,
(1Co 12:20) and now, indeed, are many members, and one body;
(1Co 12:27) and ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

Of course one day we will be without our natural body, we will then be altogether in One body without ANY flesh hloding us apart from each other as now. But until then, let's be mindful of our Body of Christ we are in Now!

(Eph 5:30) because members we are of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones;

This is a wonderful truth, and because it is so wonderful and incredible, it will come under attack by the enemy just watch The "yeah buts" will be coming along just watch
What a crazy crazy world lol
Blessings,
Sopn of Israel

 

[Son of Israel]

My knee bows now and my tongue confesses Jesus Christ now as my Lord and my God and I give account Veteran, there is no "literall" coming back of Jesus Christ on the earth!

If you think this world today is how Christ's Kingdom is to be manifested in final, and that He is not returning to this earth bodily, meaning in His Resurrection Body His Apostles saw, then you are greatly deceived and I feel sorry for you. You have obvioulsy omitted much of your Bible in favor of following a bunch of men's traditions that try to replace God's Word. And, you have no real clue of who the Zionists are, because the political group of Zionists today are the very ones who think TODAY it's up to them to establish Christ's Kingdom in the FLESH. But God has prepared a "strong delusion" for them, and for you if you keep denying Christ's bodily return which is written...

Zech 14:1-5
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.
4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
(KJV)

Acts 1:9-12
9 And when He had spoken these things, while they beheld, He was taken up; and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, Which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven."
12 Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
(KJV)

All I have to do is show Scripture as written to prove you follow doctrines of men, and not God's Word.

LOL Good luck in your ideas veteran. You'll die without seeing any of it, right before then you'll think back about these things you say and will go, "uh oh... guess I shouldna been futurizing everything lol!

 

[veteran]

My understanding comes from God's Word as written, and not the Christian Spiritualist movements that you're obviously involved in. That movement came to America in the 19th century from Europe, and seeks to turn God's Word into some form of pagan religious mystical doctrine, spiritualizing the literal things written in God's Word, like Christ's second coming for one.

 

[glorydaz]

The Word is very clear Jesus will come again.
It isn't futuristic to yearn for heaven and the mansions God has prepared for the saints.
Jesus told us to watch and be ready.
We can only believe the Word of God.
Our understanding is lacking, but we do have the Word through which we learn quite a bit.
Do I believe it will be on this earth? No, but we will have a new heaven and earth so we do have a place prepared for us. We won't just be spirits flitting through space, because we'll be given glorified spiritual bodies and will recognize each other.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

It's our hope of glory...when we will be given our spiritual bodies and live with Him for eternity.
The Lord is not slack concerning His coming but is patient and longsuffering until the earth is ripe for the harvest. But there will be a harvest...we'll all stand before the judgment seat of Christ and the Great White Throne. Those written in the Lamb's book of life will dwell with Him in the beautiful city of God. Jesus spoke of His return...

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.