Bible Study The Unforgivable Sin?

[whitney]

Hey, 'i' did not exactly say that did I?? Is there not more to come??
Adam sinned & mankind started dieing, right? (if we believe God?) And there was NO way back until the Plan was given by the Godhead.

OK: Christ said that we MUST BE BORN AGAIN to be saved! Now WAIT! Lets say that we are not ever Born Again. So here is my point, was my IQ, and was my Love completely gone at Adams sin? NO.
OK: How about my natural 'healing abilities' that God CREATED me with, were these gone all at once?

OK: The Holy Spirit after Adam sinned finds at the time of the flood His STRIVING for 120 years with Noah's preaching. Yet, what were the results? And do you think that they were not still with their natural created disease fighting gens? Most of these evil ones even lived to nearly 1000 years old.

I will say this though, even today's open sinners have not lost all of the Lord's power that He created man with. They still have 'will' power. Just say.. that they quite smoking?? They might say... I QUITE SMOKING!! ;) But perhaps you and I will agree that the power came from God & they just do not understand that?!
Yet, that is not the sin against the Holy Ghost yet!
Gen. 6:3 finds the Shut Door of the Ark. Yet, it took quite a span of time for that Door of Probation to CLOSE! Even the Rev. 17:1-5 ones have long gone past that time period as the Whores Daughters and most just will not budge!

And the IQ of mankind? What sinner gives God the credit there?

--Elijah

No, you did not say anything having to do with my 2nd sentence, I was simply attempting to keep the thread on track.

But the sin against the Holy Spirit can be found in Mark 3, Jesus was performing miracles and people were saying His power was coming from Beezlebub and then Jesus talked about the unforgivable sin.
That is the unforgivable sin and you can not deny it, it's right there in scripture.

 

[Elijah674]

No, you did not say anything having to do with my 2nd sentence, I was simply attempting to keep the thread on track.

But the sin against the Holy Spirit can be found in Mark 3, Jesus was performing miracles and people were saying His power was coming from Beezlebub and then Jesus talked about the unforgivable sin.
That is the unforgivable sin and you can not deny it, it's right there in scripture.

'i' do not understand it that way. See Psalms 19:13's Great Transgression which David say's that Presumptious sin leads one into, as 'i' see it.

And the greatest miracle that I have ever seen is the Rebirth of a lost 'son of thunder' type as Christ called James & John. Which I have seen take place, but there are also many today that claim to have had Christ 'preform' this mighty miracle in their life... which I cannot buy into! (see Matt. 7:22)

So, where does my not believing in Christ's professed miracle leave me?

---Elijah

 

[whitney]

'i' do not understand it that way. See Psalms 19:13's Great Transgression which David say's that Presumptious sin leads one into, as 'i' see it.

And the greatest miracle that I have ever seen is the Rebirth of a lost 'son of thunder' type as Christ called James & John. Which I have seen take place, but there are also many today that claim to have had Christ 'preform' this mighty miracle in their life... which I cannot buy into! (see Matt. 7:22)

So, where does my not believing in Christ's professed miracle leave me?

---Elijah

I see your point, but we really don't know for sure, we don't have to "buy into it", we just listen and move on.
How do you reconcile Mark 3? If it doesn't mean what I think it means, then what does it mean?

 

[Elijah674]

I see your point, but we really don't know for sure, we don't have to "buy into it", we just listen and move on.
How do you reconcile Mark 3? If it doesn't mean what I think it means, then what does it mean?

In verse 2 we see the problem was their hardness of heart against Christ's healing on the 7th day Sabbath. (it is wonderful to do good on the Sabbath)

As far as Christ was concerned, He told us what He went through in Matt. 10:25 & what we are to expect as well! And I do believe that when sin is known & done over & over again, that finally the Holy Spirit can no longer reach the person. (or person's, see Rev. 17:1-5) And His (Christ's) ex/bride Israel were reaching that Closed Door of probation point! Matt. 23:38, Matt. 25:10

Yet, He had worked many miracles in the O.T. for them to wittness. Exod. 16 was not a healing miracle, but giving them manna for 40 years surely was a miracle, huh? (see Psalms 78:24-25 for angels food!)

I am convinced that there is no one time sin that is the sin against the Holy Ghost. Some say suicide is! But in Heb. 11:32 we find Samson one of those saved dieing in the Faith. (verse 13) So I will not ever say that that either is the Great Transgression. Yet, the Lord WANTS US VERY MUCH ALIVE FOR HIM!:yes Rev. 3:16

--Elijah

 

[whitney]

In verse 2 we see the problem was their hardness of heart against Christ's healing on the 7th day Sabbath. (it is wonderful to do good on the Sabbath)

As far as Christ was concerned, He told us what He went through in Matt. 10:25 & what we are to expect as well! And I do believe that when sin is known & done over & over again, that finally the Holy Spirit can no longer reach the person. (or person's, see Rev. 17:1-5) And His (Christ's) ex/bride Israel were reaching that Closed Door of probation point! Matt. 23:38, Matt. 25:10

Yet, He had worked many miracles in the O.T. for them to wittness. Exod. 16 was not a healing miracle, but giving them manna for 40 years surely was a miracle, huh? (see Psalms 78:24-25 for angels food!)

I am convinced that there is no one time sin that is the sin against the Holy Ghost. Some say suicide is! But in Heb. 11:32 we find Samson one of those saved dieing in the Faith. (verse 13) So I will not ever say that that either is the Great Transgression. Yet, the Lord WANTS US VERY MUCH ALIVE FOR HIM!:yes Rev. 3:16

--Elijah

What about Hebrews 6:4? It seems this is not forgivable.

 

[Elijah674]

Heb. 6:1-5 give the POSITIVES of one which is Born Again, then verse 6 documents that these ones can still 'choose as free moral agents' to go the devil's way & then would Sin the FULL CUP OF THE SIN AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST. And the Rev. 17:1-5 bunch are prophesied by the Holy Spirits INSPIRATION to have done so.

But even then, it took a long time to 'fill up the cup'. It is at 'near the mature stage' when one has much of the Holy Spirits 'Showerings' that is dangerous for the ones who balk at His Leading. (see Acts 5 & again Psalms 19:13!) And that is true as 'i' see it for the non/christian as well)

--Elijah

 

[whitney]

I understand what you are saying.

What about 1 John 5:16?

Elijah,
There has to be an unpardonable sin, why would Jesus tell us there is, if there is not? What you are talking about is an "over a time period" sin.

Is there a one time sin or is it always over a period of time?

 

[Elijah674]

I understand what you are saying.

What about 1 John 5:16?

Elijah,
There has to be an unpardonable sin, why would Jesus tell us there is, if there is not? What you are talking about is an "over a time period" sin.

Is there a one time sin or is it always over a period of time?

Hi, I am not saying that there is no unpardonable sin! Jesus DOCUMENTS that there is! Matt. 12:31-32

What IS THAT SIN is what we are wanting the answer to, with the above TITLE question mark, right?

1 John 3:4 tell's the UNIVERSE that the Ten Commandments are ETERNAL! There IS NO SIN without a Law! (+ Heb. 13:20 Eternal Covenant) satan sinned in heaven, and John penned way up into the last book of Rev. AD 96, & if he had made any mistakes he could have corrected the 1 John 5:16-17 verse. And that is way past Christ & His New Covenant of the N.T.! Proving that the Eternal Law was just that, Eternal. (All Ten Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16)

OK: A person sins lets say, and one of the ten Commandments are broken. Now you have found in 1 John 5:17 that all unrighteousness is sin: and [there is a sin NOT UNTO DEATH]. (not the first, second or third time! Christ says 70 X 70!)

As said before, any sin done a few times, is not the unpardonable sin unto death. (none!) David told what it was that led one up to this sin that was unto death as quoted in Psalms 19:13. Any breaking of God's Eternal law is sin, & when it is done over & over again, it FINALLY leads into the SIN UNTO ETERNAL DEATH.

Note John in the previous verse of 1 John 5:16's last part of the verse. '... and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a SIN UNTO DEATH: I do not say that he shall pray for it.'

Over in James 1:15 we see some more on sin as a starting point & then on as it is maturely Finished. Inspiration has it penned by James this way...

'Then when [lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin]: and sin, [when it is FINISHED,] bringeth forth death. (Finished as in MATURE, full grown, regardless of one being a Christian or a heathen, they have had the Holy Spirit STRIVINGS with them & He could take them NO further into Sanctification! Nah. 1:9)

As stated,any known sin which can only be identified by breaking of the Godheads law, if not confessed & forsaken, will in time find the person at the point that the Holy Spirit can no longer move them. He STRIVES with them just as long as there is hope, and any more Striving, He knows would just be useless. (See Isa. 5:3-4)

And as stated before, as seen in Gen. 6:3 & in Rev. 17:1-5, ALL OF THESE ONES PROBATION 'IS PROPHESIED' OVER AT 'THIS TIME PERIOD'. They were all released over to satan as was Cain in Gen. 4:7. They had, as did satan.. sinned the Sin AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST. These are the ones that will unite in church + state 666 forced worship.

--Elijah

 

[whitney]

Hi, I am not saying that there is no unpardonable sin! Jesus DOCUMENTS that there is! Matt. 12:31-32

What IS THAT SIN is what we are wanting the answer to, with the above TITLE question mark, right?

1 John 3:4 tell's the UNIVERSE that the Ten Commandments are ETERNAL! There IS NO SIN without a Law! (+ Heb. 13:20 Eternal Covenant) satan sinned in heaven, and John penned way up into the last book of Rev. AD 96, & if he had made any mistakes he could have corrected the 1 John 5:16-17 verse. And that is way past Christ & His New Covenant of the N.T.! Proving that the Eternal Law was just that, Eternal. (All Ten Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16)

OK: A person sins lets say, and one of the ten Commandments are broken. Now you have found in 1 John 5:17 that all unrighteousness is sin: and [there is a sin NOT UNTO DEATH]. (not the first, second or third time! Christ says 70 X 70!)

As said before, any sin done a few times, is not the unpardonable sin unto death. (none!) David told what it was that led one up to this sin that was unto death as quoted in Psalms 19:13. Any breaking of God's Eternal law is sin, & when it is done over & over again, it FINALLY leads into the SIN UNTO ETERNAL DEATH.

Note John in the previous verse of 1 John 5:16's last part of the verse. '... and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a SIN UNTO DEATH: I do not say that he shall pray for it.'

Over in James 1:15 we see some more on sin as a starting point & then on as it is maturely Finished. Inspiration has it penned by James this way...

'Then when [lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin]: and sin, [when it is FINISHED,] bringeth forth death. (Finished as in MATURE, full grown, regardless of one being a Christian or a heathen, they have had the Holy Spirit STRIVINGS with them & He could take them NO further into Sanctification! Nah. 1:9)

As stated,any known sin which can only be identified by breaking of the Godheads law, if not confessed & forsaken, will in time find the person at the point that the Holy Spirit can no longer move them. He STRIVES with them just as long as there is hope, and any more Striving, He knows would just be useless. (See Isa. 5:3-4)

And as stated before, as seen in Gen. 6:3 & in Rev. 17:1-5, ALL OF THESE ONES PROBATION 'IS PROPHESIED' OVER AT 'THIS TIME PERIOD'. They were all released over to satan as was Cain in Gen. 4:7. They had, as did satan.. sinned the Sin AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST. These are the ones that will unite in church + state 666 forced worship.

--Elijah

Yes, we do want that answer and I believe it to be found in Mark 3.

 

[Bick]

I think it is important to put the sacrifice of Christ in its true perspective: Christ died for the sins of the world.

John 1:29 "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world."

2 Cor. 5:19 "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses..."

My friends, there is no "unpardonable sin."

While all must give account for their deeds, God will be vindicated and in the end His grace will prevail.

 

[Elijah674]

I think it is important to put the sacrifice of Christ in its true perspective: Christ died for the sins of the world.

John 1:29 "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world."

2 Cor. 5:19 "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses..."

My friends, there is no "unpardonable sin."

While all must give account for their deeds, God will be vindicated and in the end His grace will prevail.

??? Well, 'i' think that at [present] that anyone who 'presumptuously' believes this above posting is already well on the way to this Great Transgression! of Psalms 19:13 and Matt. 12:31-32 Sin against the Holy Ghost, + James 1:15 FINISHED END + 1 John 5:16 Sin UNTO DEATH!

And if they stay as such, Obadiah 1:16 will soon enough find that they will be ETERNALLY gone, as though they HAD NEVER BEEN! Think about that before your eyes fall into sleep tonight.. NEVER NEVER EVER, TO BE AGAIN! JUST BLOTTED FROM ETERNITY as though one had never been in the first place!

And that was because these ones just would not believe God even though He gave them the free choice to do so. But they teach that God is a liar! Gen. 3:3-4

--Elijah

 

[Jake]

I think it is important to put the sacrifice of Christ in its true perspective: Christ died for the sins of the world.

John 1:29 "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world."

2 Cor. 5:19 "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses..."

My friends, there is no "unpardonable sin."

While all must give account for their deeds, God will be vindicated and in the end His grace will prevail.

Did you read the OP and Mark 3? The Lord said there was an unforgivable sin, so you can bet there is.

 

[Bick]

Did you read the OP and Mark 3? The Lord said there was an unforgivable sin, so you can bet there is.

Yes, I read it. And let us quote the whole passage from the NASB: "...Sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in THIS AGE OR IN THE AGE TO COME." (Capitals mine for emphasis). Matt. 12:31-32.

Here, Jesus clarifies the first sentence. Those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit (that is, attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to the demons) will definitely not be forgiven----in this AGE nor in the Age to come.

"This age (or epoch)" was during Jesus earthly ministry, and will continue until the end of the 7 years tribulation.

"The age to come" is the Messianic Kingdom, the millennial age.

 

[Jake]

Yes, I read it. And let us quote the whole passage from the NASB: "...Sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in THIS AGE OR IN THE AGE TO COME." (Capitals mine for emphasis). Matt. 12:31-32.

Here, Jesus clarifies the first sentence. Those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit (that is, attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to the demons) will definitely not be forgiven----in this AGE nor in the Age to come.

"This age (or epoch)" was during Jesus earthly ministry, and will continue until the end of the 7 years tribulation.

"The age to come" is the Messianic Kingdom, the millennial age.

Mark 3:28 (NASB)
Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;

29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"-- 30because they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit."

The ASV for Matthew 12:31 says -
31 Therefore I say unto you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men;
but the blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in that which is to come.

So now we can figure out which version we should use. ;)

 

[Elijah674]

Yes, I read it. And let us quote the whole passage from the NASB: "...Sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in THIS AGE OR IN THE AGE TO COME." (Capitals mine for emphasis). Matt. 12:31-32.

Here, Jesus clarifies the first sentence. Those who blaspheme the Holy Spirit (that is, attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to the demons) will definitely not be forgiven----in this AGE nor in the Age to come.

"This age (or epoch)" was during Jesus earthly ministry, and will continue until the end of the 7 years tribulation.

"The age to come" is the Messianic Kingdom, the millennial age.

So what you are falsley 'teaching' (Rev. 22:18-19) is that Noah's 120 years preaching to the antediluvians with the STRIVING OF THE HOLY GHOST along with his preaching, found ALL of these ones LOST because they believed that both had demons??? Gen. 6:3

And the FIRE that came down from God upon Sodom & Gomorrah in Gen. 19:24 is because they were attributing 'some work' to demons??

And the ones of Rev. 17:1-5?? These too are demon worshipers or whatever?? (that I might agree to in bottom/line!)

I suggest that you read all three chapters for clarity! And again see Psalms 19:13's Great Transgression! And how David states that it is arrived at.

--Elijah

 

[Bick]

So what you are falsley 'teaching' (Rev. 22:18-19) is that Noah's 120 years preaching to the antediluvians with the STRIVING OF THE HOLY GHOST along with his preaching, found ALL of these ones LOST because they believed that both had demons??? Gen. 6:3

And the FIRE that came down from God upon Sodom & Gomorrah in Gen. 19:24 is because they were attributing 'some work' to demons??

And the ones of Rev. 17:1-5?? These too are demon worshipers or whatever?? (that I might agree to in bottom/line!)

I suggest that you read all three chapters for clarity! And again see Psalms 19:13's Great Transgression! And how David states that it is arrived at.

--Elijah

MY COMMENTS: I guess it really comes down to this: is man's will greater than God's? When we read that "God so loves the world.." does that mean that though He loves the world, He is limited to draw all to Him?

If that were true, what does this verse mean, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." ?
John 12:32, AV.

 

[Bick]

Mark 3:28 (NASB)
Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;

29but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"-- 30because they were saying, "He has an unclean spirit."

The ASV for Matthew 12:31 says -
31 Therefore I say unto you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men;
but the blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in that which is to come.

So now we can figure out which version we should use. ;)

MY COMMENTS: Yes, being able to read as literal a translation is SO important; some which are available are:
Young's Literal Translation; Rotherham's Emphasized Bible; The Emphatic Diaglott; and The Concordant Version of the New Testament.

It is unfortunate that the compilers of the AV used "ever" for the Greek noun "aion"- literally meaning "age". And practically all versions followed suit. Don't take my word for it; buy a Young's Version, or download it on your PC, and check it out. And, also, the adjective "aionion"=="age-lasting" or "age-during".

If the account in Matthew is correct (no forgiveness in this age (world--AV) or in the age to come), then the passage in Mark must agree. And it does when the correct, literal rendering is read.

"Verily I say to you, that all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and evil speakings with which they might speak evil, but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness---to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment." Mark 3:28-29, YLT.

"Not forgiveness---to the age" must mean this age during Jesus earthly ministry, and continuing on till the end of the tribulation.

Bick

 

[Jake]

MY COMMENTS: Yes, being able to read as literal a translation is SO important; some which are available are:
Young's Literal Translation; Rotherham's Emphasized Bible; The Emphatic Diaglott; and The Concordant Version of the New Testament.

It is unfortunate that the compilers of the AV used "ever" for the Greek noun "aion"- literally meaning "age". And practically all versions followed suit. Don't take my word for it; buy a Young's Version, or download it on your PC, and check it out. And, also, the adjective "aionion"=="age-lasting" or "age-during".

If the account in Matthew is correct (no forgiveness in this age (world--AV) or in the age to come), then the passage in Mark must agree. And it does when the correct, literal rendering is read.

"Verily I say to you, that all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and evil speakings with which they might speak evil, but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness---to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment." Mark 3:28-29, YLT.

"Not forgiveness---to the age" must mean this age during Jesus earthly ministry, and continuing on till the end of the tribulation.

Bick

The original Greek text says "never have forgiveness", and "guilty of eternal sin". If we use the "sum of the Word" and add Hebrews 6:6, then we conclude a person can lose their salvation and in Heb 6:6, it would be rejecting the work of Christ AND the Holy Spirit.

 

[Elijah674]

MY COMMENTS: I guess it really comes down to this: is man's will greater than God's? When we read that "God so loves the world.." does that mean that though He loves the world, He is limited to draw all to Him?

If that were true, what does this verse mean, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." ?
John 12:32, AV.

Hi, 'i' think that you are missing the 'I' part? He is and has been the only I that can save from Eternity! Acts 4:12

'i' like in 'we' are the eternally lost ones, and are FIRST DRAWN TO CHRIST! Actually you can find that all of us were goners without this ETERNAL [PLAN] OF THE 'EVERLASTING GOSPEL'. Rev. 14:6

OK: The Holy Spirit has ALWAYS DRAWN THE LOST THROUGH HIS STRIVING to accept CHRIST. (Got that??) But that STRIVING was not 'FORCING' acceptance.

See Gen. 6:3 for the difference of the ones [OUTSIDE & the ONES INSIDE]. In this case many died both outside & inside by NO faith or IN THE FAITH. [MATURELY!] Yet, before the FINAL FINISH OF THIS SIN, 120 years passed.

So as you say: 'is man's will greater than God's?' is not the question at all, the above truth finds that the Godhead leaves your Free Choice of Eternal Life up to you! Again Psalms 19:13!

--Elijah

 

[Bonairos]

The Unforgivable Sin?

I'm assured the only sin God will not forgive me of is the sin(s) I don't confess to Him.

That's not to discredit previous responses. Yet, whatever we've done (big or small, public or private, stated or not), God has given us His word that He will forgive us of them ALL - IF we acknowledge/confess them to Him (even those habitual ones).

1 John 1:9

If I don't acknowledge, I won't confess. If I don't confess, I won't be forgiven (moreso benefit from the result of forgiveness).

If there be ANY sin that God absolutely cannot forgive a person of (and here we can get into the debates offered), I am convinced that acknowledging, let alone confessing it, will never enter their thoughts.

You see, Jesus is the Author and the Finisher of our faith (and everything in between). It starts with Him and it ends with Him. We can never come to Him unless HE FIRST draws us (and that with or without sin).

John 6:65

The point? The fact that that we even have the Lord in our thoughts is proof that He is not finished with us yet.

The answer? Allow Him to search you. If there is error, make right. Confess them. And then walk out with the assurance knowing you love Him because He FIRST loved you.

Be blessed, Stay blessed!