THE UNFORGIVEN SIN

[markathome]

Finally saved!!! Your interpretation says If Joe was saved at 23 as per your post above.....then lost it. He's done.
markathome said: ↑

If poor Joe died while in the service before he committed the Apostasy would he not be saved?
Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Can you tell us what the Apostasy for this person would be?

The Apostasy happens later. You can change it around any way you see fit, kill the poor guy whenever you want.

John Doe at the age of 18 while attending his Dad's Funeral hears the Gospel again and Believes with JOY!
*They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with JOY; and these have no root, which for a while BELIEVE, and in time of temptation fall away aka Apostasy.

They BELIEVE which makes them Believers!
Believers in the Gospel are not Saved when they Die?
Believers in the Gospel, can have, have, and will in the future commit Apostasy.

I think the verse above is talking about people who claim to be Christ followers...but followed a gospel of works to get saved in the first place... or once saved follow a gospel that calls for us to impress God to stay saved.

Just for the record, the verse you posted and the portion you bolded...I never knew you...indicates they were never ever saved, or, God would have known them.

Just used Matthew 7:21-23 for reference to the "call upon the name of the Lord" part. Romans 10:13
Works requires Faith and Belief! Works is a Good Thing, we need more Workers!
But Performing miracles for money or self glory fits into Matthew 7:21-23

God Bless

 

[Cygnus]

Works requires Faith and Belief! Works is a Good Thing, we need more Workers!

Why are you working? To saved saved? OR, for the glory of God? OR both?

 

[eddif]

Hebrews 6:4 KJV
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Really?
But if they re-repented...before they died, they're saved again?

The circles / wheels within themselves turn.

Repentance of John is not salvation. Repentance is the way that leads to believing in Jesus. The Holy Spirit empowers us to preach Jesus Christ and him crucified.

I see a lot in symbolism, but if symbolism is my only trust, then I am not teaching all things.

There is one name under heaven that has salvation attached (Jesus). Repentance as just one thing that the name John is attached to. Power to witness is attached to the name Holy Spirit.

I wonder if any others see the need to branch out and have:
Father
Son
Holy Spirit

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[chessman]

The line is faith in Christ. It absolutely does not become any clearer than the following verse.

1Jo 5:12
Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Actually, verse 10 makes verse 12 a little clearer (not that v12 says anything about loosing salvation):

1 John 5:10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.​

Yet the anti-OSAS position is some have once believed in the testimony concerning His Son, they just stopped believing in it (for some reason). Which would directly contradict 1 John 510b, if true.

 

[eddif]

Actually, verse 10 makes verse 12 a little clearer (not that v12 says anything about loosing salvation):

1 John 5:10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.​

Yet the anti-OSAS position is some have once believed in the testimony concerning His Son, they just stopped believing in it (for some reason). Which would directly contradict 1 John 510b, if true.

Thanks
Fathers testimony (1st in scripture)
Sons testimony (word become flesh 2nd)
Holy Spirit (2nd Adam became quickening spirit 3rd)

eddif

 

[Nathan]

Actually, verse 10 makes verse 12 a little clearer (not that v12 says anything about loosing salvation):

1 John 5:10 The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.​

Yet the anti-OSAS position is some have once believed in the testimony concerning His Son, they just stopped believing in it (for some reason). Which would directly contradict 1 John 510b, if true.

I never said that these passages in 1 John spoke of loosing salvation. The passages unequivocally state that eternal life is in Christ alone, and without Him there is no life.

This means regardless if someone once believed in Him, if they do not have the Son they do not have life. This in no way contradicts verse 10. If anything, verse 10 states that it is those who believe who have the Son - not those who once believed.

 

[chessman]

This means regardless if someone once believed in Him, if they do not have the Son they do not have life.

1 John 5:10b The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son. ​

"Once believed", "has not believed", close enough huh???

 

[eddif]

I wonder how close we all are in this. Of course I realize I am a little different in some of my views.

We have sinned against the Father (repentance solves this)

We have at times sinned against the Son (Jesus bearing our sins in his body on the cross I Peter 2:24 resolves this)

We should not sin against the Holy Spirit (going back to square one is not possible for this)

Different areas do not overide all areas.

It appears to me everything is so lumped together, that we can't see spiritual gifts separated from eternal life.

Matthew 12:32 KJV
And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Redneck
eddif

 

[Nathan]

1 John 5:10b The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son. ​

"Once believed", "has not believed", close enough huh???

I think I see what your saying. It kind of goes off my original thought line, but applicable.

Just to make sure I understand, do you believe that a person can posses eternal life independently from God in Christ?

 

[chessman]

Just to make sure I understand, do you believe that a person can posses eternal life independently from God in Christ?

No.

Do you believe a person who once believed in Christ for their salvation (once had the testimony in himself) but no longer believes is consistent with what 1 John 5:10b says about the one who does not believe God?

1 John 5:10b The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.​

 

[Nathan]

No.

Do you believe a person who once believed in Christ for their salvation (once had the testimony in himself) but no longer believes is consistent with what 1 John 5:10b says about the one who does not believe God?

1 John 5:10b The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.​

No. 1 John 5:10 speaks of a person who does not, and has not, believed God.

Anyone who has believed has received the testimony.

I know you know this, but you can't believe in Christ if you don't actually believe in who Christ is.

I only say that because some want to believe in who they think Christ is, not who He really is.

 

[eddif]

Acts 19:2 KJV
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Just a lowly redneck reading this, seems to know the Father's words about the Son

Later the Son is recognized

Then in Acts the Holy Spirit is recognized.

The original post has all three listed (a little hidden in taste, etc.).

eddif

 

[Nathan]

Acts 19:2 KJV
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Just a lowly redneck reading this, seems to know the Father's words about the Son

Later the Son is recognized

Then in Acts the Holy Spirit is recognized.

The original post has all three listed (a little hidden in taste, etc.).

eddif

I think what you say is often overlooked. You really can't speak evil(blaspheme) something you do not know.

This honestly should be comforting to people who think they have somehow done this "unforgivable sin". I know I have many times wondered if I had done it early in my walk of faith. Once I understood that it is an intentionally done and known thing, then I found comfort that I would have to deny my Savior long before I would commit this 'unforgivable' sin.

 

[dianegcook]

Well call me crazy, lol, but I have a different opinion on this subject.
Let's go back to the verses that speak on the subject.
Luke 12:9-12
But he that denieth Me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
And whomsoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him, but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Spirit it shall not be forgiven.
And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say,
For the Holy Spirit shall teach you in the SAME HOUR what ye ought to say.
Witness:
Matt.24:9-14
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you (spiritually) and shall be hated of all nations for My name same.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come.

Another witness:
Mark 13:9-11
But take heed to yourselves, for they shall deliver you up to councils, and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten, and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake for a Testimony against them.
And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand hand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate ,but whatsoever shall be given you IN THAT HOUR, that speak ye, fit it is not ye that speak, but the HOLY SPIRIT.
Another witness:
Luke 21:12-19
But before all these, they shall lay hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for MY NAME's SAKE.
And it shall turn to you FOR A TESTIMONY.
Settle it therefore in your hearts, NOT TO MEDITATE before what ye shall answer,
FOR I WILL GIVE YOU A MOUTH AND WISDOM, WHICH ALL YOUR ADVERSARIES SHALL NOT BE ABLE TO GAINSAY NOR RESIST...
And ye shall be hated of all men for MY NAME'S SAKE.
BUT THERE SHALL NOT AN HAIR OF YOUR HEAD PERISH.
In your patience possess ye your souls.

Thus, my belief,
When you are delivered up to the so called antichrist, abomination of desolation, you should let the HOLY SPIRIT speak through you, or you will blasphemeth .
That gospel shall be published, whatever the Spirit speaketh.
The HOUR of TEMPTATION.

The unforgiven sin.....

 

[eddif]

I think what you say is often overlooked. You really can't speak evil(blaspheme) something you do not know.

This honestly should be comforting to people who think they have somehow done this "unforgivable sin". I know I have many times wondered if I had done it early in my walk of faith. Once I understood that it is an intentionally done and known thing, then I found comfort that I would have to deny my Savior long before I would commit this 'unforgivable' sin.

You have helped with your comments.

To some spirituals are a scary area. In my experience every Spirit is not Holy. To discern spirits is a spiritual gift. I am in agony at times trying to weave my way through some situations with (leadings).

You are right. Some folks have avoided areas mentioned in the OP.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Well call me crazy, lol, but I have a different opinion on this subject.
Let's go back to the verses that speak on the subject.
Luke 12:9-12
But he that denieth Me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
And whomsoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him, but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Spirit it shall not be forgiven.
And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say,
For the Holy Spirit shall teach you in the SAME HOUR what ye ought to say.
Witness:
Matt.24:9-14
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you (spiritually) and shall be hated of all nations for My name same.
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come.

Another witness:
Mark 13:9-11
But take heed to yourselves, for they shall deliver you up to councils, and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten, and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for My sake for a Testimony against them.
And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand hand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate ,but whatsoever shall be given you IN THAT HOUR, that speak ye, fit it is not ye that speak, but the HOLY SPIRIT.
Another witness:
Luke 21:12-19
But before all these, they shall lay hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for MY NAME's SAKE.
And it shall turn to you FOR A TESTIMONY.
Settle it therefore in your hearts, NOT TO MEDITATE before what ye shall answer,
FOR I WILL GIVE YOU A MOUTH AND WISDOM, WHICH ALL YOUR ADVERSARIES SHALL NOT BE ABLE TO GAINSAY NOR RESIST...
And ye shall be hated of all men for MY NAME'S SAKE.
BUT THERE SHALL NOT AN HAIR OF YOUR HEAD PERISH.
In your patience possess ye your souls.

Thus, my belief,
When you are delivered up to the so called antichrist, abomination of desolation, you should let the HOLY SPIRIT speak through you, or you will blasphemeth .
That gospel shall be published, whatever the Spirit speaketh.
The HOUR of TEMPTATION.

The unforgiven sin.....

Let us see if we are kinda on the same path.

The kingdom of God is inside us. When is it in us? Evidently it is not in us at the time of Repentance (although some think it is).

Some think it is in us at salvation belief, although this scripture might help us understand.
Acts 2:38 KJV
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Christ baptizes in Holy Spirit and fire. I really do not fit into a complete Pentecostal or Charismatic mold / box.

The OP scripture brings us to this discussion. My beliefs do not force the issues.

We do not fear him who can destroy the body, but we fear:
Matthew 10:28 KJV
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The Holy Spirit must be in you to do this testimony stuff. No wheelbarrow of commentaries will get you through a sudden need.

eddif

 

[Gregg T]

When Jesus took on the sin of the world, it separated Him from God the Father. ONLY God the Father is eternal and has eternal life. When Jesus took the sin on Himself, He was cut off from God - that is why He cried out that God had forsaken Him.

Who told you sin separated Jesus from God the Father? Its not true!

Psa 22:24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Nor has He hidden His face from him; But when he cried to Him for help, He heard.

Jesus spoke to the Father while He was on the cross:

Luk 23:46 And crying with a loud voice, Jesus said, Father, "into Your hands I commit My spirit." And saying this, He breathed out the spirit. Psa. 31:5

 

[Gregg T]

Did someone MAKE you? For the most part I would say no. BUT....BUT....BUT...a christian can face enough "happenstance" then base a decision to walk away from Christ based upon the happenstance of life.
For example if a christian meets a slick atheist who has the ability to cast or create doubt about the existence of God and the need for a savior (happenstance)...and as a christian you accept what they say then according to you, they lose their salvation for rejecting God after being saved. Now, perhaps YU have enough faith to tell the atheist to goatee a hike, but, there are instances where a newer christian might not. In this instance the atheist or what ever means has come in and stolen that christian from Christ with their deception.

Joh 10:28 And I give eternal life to them, and they shall not perish to the age, never! And not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.

 

[Nathan]

Who told you sin separated Jesus from God the Father? Its not true!

Psa 22:24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Nor has He hidden His face from him; But when he cried to Him for help, He heard.

Jesus spoke to the Father while He was on the cross:

Luk 23:46 And crying with a loud voice, Jesus said, Father, "into Your hands I commit My spirit." And saying this, He breathed out the spirit. Psa. 31:5

This I know for the Bible tells me so.

Mar 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

Jesus had the sin of the world placed on Him.

Heb 9:28
so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Sin separates us from God.

Isa 59:2
but your iniquities have made a separation
between you and your God,
and your sins have hidden his face from you
so that he does not hear.

1Pe 2:24
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

When He took our sins upon Him, it separated Him from the Father, which is why He cried out "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me". But after His death, because He bore the sins without having done them, God raised Him from the dead - and did not leave His soul in Sheol.

Psa 16:10
For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol,
or let your holy one see corruption.

When Jesus breathed out His Spirit, He was placing it into the hands of God the Father - knowing that God would raise Him from the dead. If Jesus had not took on the sins of the world, completely, then there would be no complete forgiveness of sins. But because He was obedient, unto death, His obedience was rewarded by God with raising Him from the dead - and placing Him as the firstborn among many - among all who would come to God through Him.

 

[Gregg T]

This I know for the Bible tells me so.

Mar 15:34
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

Jesus had the sin of the world placed on Him.

Heb 9:28
so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Sin separates us from God.

Isa 59:2
but your iniquities have made a separation
between you and your God,
and your sins have hidden his face from you
so that he does not hear.

1Pe 2:24
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.

When He took our sins upon Him, it separated Him from the Father, which is why He cried out "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me". But after His death, because He bore the sins without having done them, God raised Him from the dead - and did not leave His soul in Sheol.

Psa 16:10
For you will not abandon my soul to Sheol,
or let your holy one see corruption.

When Jesus breathed out His Spirit, He was placing it into the hands of God the Father - knowing that God would raise Him from the dead. If Jesus had not took on the sins of the world, completely, then there would be no complete forgiveness of sins. But because He was obedient, unto death, His obedience was rewarded by God with raising Him from the dead - and placing Him as the firstborn among many - among all who would come to God through Him.

Hear, O Nathan . . . the LORD is our God, the LORD is One.

How can the LORD be divided against Himself?

Perhaps the physical body of LORD Jesus Christ was separated from the Son of God? Yes, His physical body.