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The United States & End Times

MMarc said:
Well Jesus came under the shadow of the Roman eagle. The US resembles mostly the Roman empire with the senate and representative. Rome was a republic with a ceasar (president) as ruler.

The symbolism shows me that when Jesus is revealed it will also be under the shadow of the eagle of the prophetic Rome.

Well this is a must read, its very interesting.

A History Lesson: Bush's America Parallels Pompey's Rome

Robert Harris/NYT posted 10/03/06

http://edstrong.blog-city.com/a_history ... s_rome.htm



In the autumn of 68 B.C. the world’s only military superpower was dealt a profound psychological blow by a daring terrorist attack on its very heart.



“Pompey was to be given not only the supreme naval command but what amounted in fact to an absolute authority and uncontrolled power over everyone,†the Greek historian Plutarch wrote; “there were not many places in the Roman world that were not included within these limits.†In the autumn of 68 B.C. the world’s only military superpower was dealt a profound psychological blow by a daring terrorist attack on its very heart.



Rome’s port at Ostia was set on fire, the consular war fleet destroyed, and two prominent senators, together with their bodyguards and staff, kidnapped. The incident, dramatic though it was, has not attracted much attention from modern historians.



But history is mutable. An event that was merely a footnote five years ago has now, in our post-9/11 world, assumed a fresh and ominous significance. For in the panicky aftermath of the attack, the Roman people made decisions that set them on the path to the destruction of their Constitution, their democracy and their liberty. One cannot help wondering if history is repeating itself. Consider the parallels. The perpetrators of this spectacular assault were not in the pay of any foreign power: no nation would have dared to attack Rome so provocatively.



They were, rather, the disaffected of the earth: “The ruined men of all nations,†in the words of the great 19th-century German historian Theodor Mommsen, “a piratical state with a peculiar esprit de corps.†Like Al Qaeda, these pirates were loosely organized, but able to spread a disproportionate amount of fear among citizens who had believed themselves immune from attack. To quote Mommsen again: “The Latin husbandman, the traveler on the Appian highway, the genteel bathing visitor at the terrestrial paradise of Baiae were no longer secure of their property or their life for a single moment.â€Â



What was to be done? Over the preceding centuries, the Constitution of ancient Rome had developed an intricate series of checks and balances intended to prevent the concentration of power in the hands of a single individual. The consulship, elected annually, was jointly held by two men. Military commands were of limited duration and subject to regular renewal. Ordinary citizens were accustomed to a remarkable degree of liberty: the cry of “Civis Romanus sum† “I am a Roman citizen† was a guarantee of safety throughout the world.



But such was the panic that ensued after Ostia that the people were willing to compromise these rights. The greatest soldier in Rome, the 38-year-old Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus (better known to posterity as Pompey the Great) arranged for a lieutenant of his, the tribune Aulus Gabinius, to rise in the Roman Forum and propose an astonishing new law. “Pompey was to be given not only the supreme naval command but what amounted in fact to an absolute authority and uncontrolled power over everyone,†the Greek historian Plutarch wrote. “There were not many places in the Roman world that were not included within these limits.â€Â



Pompey eventually received almost the entire contents of the Roman Treasury  144 million sesterces  to pay for his “war on terror,†which included building a fleet of 500 ships and raising an army of 120,000 infantry and 5,000 cavalry. Such an accumulation of power was unprecedented, and there was literally a riot in the Senate when the bill was debated.



Nevertheless, at a tumultuous mass meeting in the center of Rome, Pompey’s opponents were cowed into submission, the Lex Gabinia passed (illegally), and he was given his power. In the end, once he put to sea, it took less than three months to sweep the pirates from the entire Mediterranean.



Even allowing for Pompey’s genius as a military strategist, the suspicion arises that if the pirates could be defeated so swiftly, they could hardly have been such a grievous threat in the first place. But it was too late to raise such questions. By the oldest trick in the political book  the whipping up of a panic, in which any dissenting voice could be dismissed as “soft†or even “traitorous† powers had been ceded by the people that would never be returned.



Pompey stayed in the Middle East for six years, establishing puppet regimes throughout the region, and turning himself into the richest man in the empire. Those of us who are not Americans can only look on in wonder at the similar ease with which the ancient rights and liberties of the individual are being surrendered in the United States in the wake of 9/11.



The vote by the Senate on Thursday to suspend the right of habeas corpus for terrorism detainees, denying them their right to challenge their detention in court; the careful wording about torture, which forbids only the inducement of “serious†physical and mental suffering to obtain information; the admissibility of evidence obtained in the United States without a search warrant; the licensing of the president to declare a legal resident of the United States an enemy combatant  all this represents an historic shift in the balance of power between the citizen and the executive.



An intelligent, skeptical American would no doubt scoff at the thought that what has happened since 9/11 could presage the destruction of a centuries-old constitution; but then, I suppose, an intelligent, skeptical Roman in 68 B.C. might well have done the same.



In truth, however, the Lex Gabinia was the beginning of the end of the Roman republic. It set a precedent. Less than a decade later, Julius Caesar  the only man, according to Plutarch, who spoke out in favor of Pompey’s special command during the Senate debate  was awarded similar, extended military sovereignty in Gaul. Previously, the state, through the Senate, largely had direction of its armed forces; now the armed forces began to assume direction of the state.



It also brought a flood of money into an electoral system that had been designed for a simpler, non-imperial era. Caesar, like Pompey, with all the resources of Gaul at his disposal, became immensely wealthy, and used his treasure to fund his own political faction. Henceforth, the result of elections was determined largely by which candidate had the most money to bribe the electorate. In 49 B.C., the system collapsed completely, Caesar crossed the Rubicon  and the rest, as they say, is ancient history.



It may be that the Roman republic was doomed in any case. But the disproportionate reaction to the raid on Ostia unquestionably hastened the process, weakening the restraints on military adventurism and corrupting the political process. It was to be more than 1,800 years before anything remotely comparable to Romeªs democracy  imperfect though it was  rose again.



The Lex Gabinia was a classic illustration of the law of unintended consequences: it fatally subverted the institution it was supposed to protect. Let us hope that vote in the United States Senate does not have the same result.
 
Caesar's seat of power was called “Capitol Hill†where he officiated over the Senate in a domed building.
 
Here are more comparisons:

Both started out as Republics and became Empires. Both became the most powerful nation on earth with universal currencies. Both had strong leaders and the rest of the world looked to them for making decisions. Both had a Capitol Hill and a Senate. Both had a flag that the people pledged allegiance to. Both built stadiums to watch sports and races and became obsessed with luxuries and entertainment. Both created a welfare state. Truth, law, trust and integrity disintegrated in both. Homosexuality and abortions were allowed by both.

The last days of the Roman Empire, had deteriorated to the point of "anything goes", so "everything went," including the entire system. "Political correctness," "tolerance" and no distinction between good and evil, added up to disaster.
 
I believe there is much written in scripture about the US goverment and its dealings with the middle east.
Things such as the Beirut bombings,Both Iraqi wars,ect.I believe I may have even read about the US embassy moving to Jerusalem,but thats yet to be seen.
 
'Hide Your Face'

"You are drunk with your power and your glory. You have forgotten My words and My ways. You have turned in your wickedness, and your alliance for power has caused you to fail.

Join now the rest of the world against Me. Join them now in opposition to Me and My Chosen. See what your power will afford you.
Yes, join them. Shake hands with the dogs.
They will turn and bite you, and the disease from their wounds will overcome you.


You have turned on Me, O great one.....
You, who I sat in the heavenlies.
You, who I exalted to greatness.
You, to whom I gave so much.
You, to whom I granted great freedom and power in order that you would stand against all manor of evil and overcome the wickedness of the nations, but you have joined with them against My Chosen!

The day has come..... You have shaken hands with terror.
You will see the end thereof.
You will see what happens to those who turn against Me and My Chosen Israel."


"Hide your face America!... Do not see what is coming.
Cover your eyes and block your ears from what is coming upon you,...
for you will not believe it even as it happens."

"Yes, make your alliance and shout,.....
'FREEDOM and PEACE, PEACE and FREEDOM!'
For in the day that you do, quick and sudden destruction comes."


"I am the Lord your God... You know Me not."
 
I am reading this book the UK and the United States in Bible Prophecy . I will post some of the highlights in this thread for discussion hopefully on Monday..
 
nonbelieverforums said:
I am reading this book the UK and the United States in Bible Prophecy . I will post some of the highlights in this thread for discussion hopefully on Monday..
Looking forward to what you have to share. :)
 
nonbelieverforums said:
I am reading this book the UK and the United States in Bible Prophecy . I will post some of the highlights in this thread for discussion hopefully on Monday..

The one by Herbert W. Armstrong?
 
nonbelieverforums said:
Why is the United States not mentioned in Bible Prophecy whatsoever.

The first thing I would say is find out who and where the nation of Israel is today,,,,and I mean find out.........Once this is done you will see plenty mention of the US you can start from here::

Ezekiel 38:8 "After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them."
 
researcher said:
nonbelieverforums said:
I am reading this book the UK and the United States in Bible Prophecy . I will post some of the highlights in this thread for discussion hopefully on Monday..

The one by Herbert W. Armstrong?


Yes correct and to be honest I am having a hard time understanding it,, hense why I have not posted anything recently.. Just don't get it man..
 
nonbelieverforums said:
Why is the United States not mentioned in Bible Prophecy whatsoever.
Ezekiel 38:11 "And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,"

DO you know who these unwalled villages are????? They are the US/americas
 
Well, the USA was founded on Christian Ideas, and even its government embodies the trinity in some sense, checks and balances and all.

Is the holy land holy by name, or by its people and ideals that make up that country?

Additionally, why has America adopted British Free Trade, that imperialist economic system to which it fought a revolutionary war against? Lincoln's economist dubbed the ideas of Alexander Hamilton the American System of Economics, last seen under FDR.

It was wiped from the textbooks. And now we have a real economic crisis on our hands. :confused
 
Since our Heavenly Father already gave which nations are to come upon His people in the last days in Ezekiel 38, isn't it a simple matter of finding out who those are that band together in seeking to destroy His people?

Then, isn't it a simple matter to recognize no western nations are mentioned in that group which seeks to destroy God's people in the end? Not even a symbolic Rome is mentioned among that army of Ezekiel 38, so what gives? Who is mentioned, and who do they represent today?

Ezek 38:2-3
2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
(KJV)

"Gog and Magog" - a symbolic name for the enemies of God, also used for after Christ's Milennium in final when another attack is planned upon the "camp of the saints" per end of Rev.20.

"chief prince of Meshech and Tubal" - prince of Rosh, people called Rus = Scythian Tauri, from Tubal came Toblisk, area of modern Russia.

Ezek 38:5
5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
(KJV)

"Persia" - area of Iran-Iraq-Syria, all allied with Russia today (Iraq definitely before it was conquered lately; might mean it will ally with Russia again in the very end).

"Ethiopia" - most likely Sudan, which in ancient times appears to have been part of Ethiopia. Sudan is allied with radical Islam.

"Libya" - also allied with radical Islam and Russia.

Ezek 38:6
6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
(KJV)

"Gomer" - Crim-Tartary, Caucasions in the north, Tartars, pointing to "buffer zone" lands bordering Russia.

"house of Togarmah" - lands around Armenia near Russia (possibly Turkey also).


Did we miss Rome, or the United States, or any of the western nations there in Ezekiel 38? Nope. Don't think so, because they're not written of there. But there is one group from the West that is mentioned:

Ezek 38:13
13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, "Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?"
(KJV)

Sheba and Dedan point to southern Arabian peoples around the Persian Gulf. Tarshish was in ancient times was a Phoenician area of southern Spain. They say ask that great northern army if it has come down to take spoils, wealth, in the sense of they want to reap some of that wealth, not fight, but help reap the spoils.

Who does that army out of the northern quarters come upon to take a spoil?

Ezek 38:14-16
14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when My people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?
15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:
16 And thou shalt come up against My people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against My land, that the heathen may know Me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.
(KJV)

See my next post for what you may call 'my opinion' on the meaning for today of those events.
 
That northern army is today's Russia, and its allies against... God's people. Where does national Israel dwell mostly today, and I mean the seed of Israel, where are the majority of them? The majority of them are scattered in the countries. But which countries mostly? Western countries, including the good ole' USA. I'm not just talking about Jews only. The majority of Israel have been throughout Israel's history made up of the ten tribes. They still are the majority today, but most of them don't know it yet.

Ezek 3:17
17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at My mouth, and give them warning from Me.
(KJV)

When Ezekiel was given this commission from God, he was in his captivity home in Babylon. God sent him specifically to give a warning to the "house of Israel" (ten tribes) north of Babylon that had already been in captivity to the land of Assyria for around 120 years prior to Babylon captivity of the "house of Judah". God made a solid distinction in Ezekiel 37 about these two separate 'houses' with the two sticks prophecy of joining them back together in final. So it's important to mark this distinction of Ezekiel's commission to the ten tribes of Israel, or "house of Israel". Ezekiel was told later the ten tribes would be further scattered through the countries, meaning out of the lands of Assyria and the Medes to somewhere else. Josephus said the ten tribes of Israel were still scattered abroad in his day (100 A.D.), and they were a great many people, too many to number. Many of the "house of Judah" or Jews, were further scattered along with them. Only a small remnant of the "house of Judah" (per Ezra) returned back to Jerusalem to rebuild the city and second temple. None of the ten tribes are mentioned by Ezra as returning. Today the ten tribes are still scattered.

What is the political ideology of the leadership and rulers of today's Russia? Communism, or Socialism if you prefer; a linked root ideology. What has hard-line Communism declared for centuries it wants to do? To bring ALL nations under its power and control to form a one-world state under the Communist-Socialist ideology. What about Islam, why would religious leaders of Islam get in bed with Communism, especially since Lennist-Marxist ideology hates the idea of religion? Is it the idea of, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"? Maybe, but there's a deeper Biblical reason that's a subject for another time. Let's say they are both allied against the West for the same reason.

Can you not see these nations joining against the West today? The Communist leadership of Russia today does not just want the oil in the Persian Gulf region. They want control over all nations, including the western nations. The stake is about a lot more than just oil. They want control over all the gold, period, all the wealth of the nations.

What about the people of Sheba, Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish? The peaceful Arab nations like Saudi Arabia and Jordon, who do they appear more allied with today? The western nations of Europe, and the good ole' USA. The merchants of Tarshish? They most likely represent leaders among the western nations that will sell their souls for a dollar. A word for them is the 'Internationalists'. They don't really have a country the way they see things; money is their country. They'll sell to any nation and peoples for gain, even make deals with the enemy for gain. They'll even push for legislation that will let the guard down of Israel and western nations as long as it's profitable. In other words, they'll work with Communism, radical Islam, or with any enemy against God's people, solely for self gain. Those are the real "spots in your feasts of charity" that dwell among us in the Christian West.

World Communism has had a disinformation strategy against the Christian West for some time now (per their long-range strategy formulated around 1958 under the guise of their "new economic policy"). Would getting many Christians today to think ill of western nations serve as a good disinformation strategy against the Christian West? You bet it would, and it does. World communism would like nothing better than to get westerners all fighting against each other to create chaos, making it easier to get their Socialist ideals flowing in the minds of our young people, and to change our laws, and ESPECIALLY downplay our western Christian heritage through Christ Jesus. That psy-ops strategy against the West has been in effect since the 1950's, and has not changed its ultimate goal of takeover of the West. They love it when even some our own deceived peoples start pointing to our own western Christian nation(s) as Biblical Babylon, a hypnotic suggestion that must have begun with their infiltrators among some Christian groups.

What our Heavenly Father points to ultimately in Ezekiel 38-39 though, is the enemy finally seeing an opportunity to strike a decisive blow against the state of Israel and it's allies, the western nations, to complete their takeover of everything. The enemy would only do that if our guard were let down so far that we could not protect ourselves. That's the state the Christian West has been slowly... moving towards. It's to help the formation of the Revelation 13:1 beast system over all nations, tongues, peoples, and multitudes (the "sea" per Rev.17:15). God is giving the enemy power over us for a time, for a purpose. His Purpose is when that northern army comes at His people in final, He is going to show them His Power when He will de facto defeat them by His Hand. Their defeat will not come by our hand, for the enemy would not believe it came directly from God if He gave us the power to defeat that northern army. In that way, God will be sanctified in the sight of His enemies, and they will know it. That will be the last great battle upon the earth ending this world. Christ Jesus and His angels are coming to fight it.
 
The United States IS mentioned in Bible prophecy, just not as the term "United States of America".

The U.S. symbolically represents the tribe of Manasseh, technically the 13th tribe of Israel. Joseph was told by his father Jacob in Gen.48 that Manasseh's brother Ephraim would become "a multitude of nations", and that his brother Manasseh would also become "great". It's sad that so many of my fellow Christian brothers and sisters don't understand that prophecy while most all of Christ's enemies do, which is why Christ's enemies primarily attack the West and the nation state of Israel. This is discovered by tracing God's Birthright to the seed of Israel per His Word. It is not a doctrine of men. It's also why Islamic religious leaders of the seed of Ishmael have publically admitted why they seek to destroy the Christian West and the Jews, because in their eyes, their ancestor Ishmael was the 'firstborn'. And the Birthright is supposed to go to the firstborn. Yet God declared The Promise would be through Abraham and Sarah's seed Isaac, not Ishmael who was born of Abraham and Sarah's maidservant Hagar.
 
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