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The United States & End Times

Here's a concise Bible history about God's Birthright. I'm not going to post the Bible Scripture, but only refer to key Bible passages and chapters. Do your own homework if you want to understand it.

The phrase that God is The God of Abraham, The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob is about His Birthright to the seed of Israel. The Birthright Promise is connected with His Plan of Salvation through His Son. This is why the Apostle Paul covers bits and pieces of it in Galatians and Romans concerning Abraham. Per Isaiah 5, God's symbolic "vineyard" are those who are part of His Salvation. Before Christ came, His Salvation was manifested specifically through the children of Israel. After Christ came, it went to another nation that was to bring forth fruits in season, and always included a believing remnant of the seed of Israel.

God's Birthright contains these specific Blessings:
1. great number of seed (flesh at first through Israel, then both flesh and spiritual through Christ later)
2. plenty of corn and wine; symbolic of blessings of the best resources and lands on earth
3. controlling the gates of their enemies; means controlling the coming and going of one's enemies on earth. Who built both the Suez and Panama Canal's that helped control the seas? Who have been the main superpowers in the West, able to militarily support other nations that seek freedom?
4. the royal sceptre rule; the earthly throne appointment of kings by Divine right.
5. care of God's Law to His people.

All those promises make up God's Birthright to His people. Wherever those promises are manifested on earth, that's where the majority of His people, or His "vineyard" is located.

Per 1 Chronicles 5, the Birthright fell upon Joseph's two sons of Manasseh and Ephraim. That's where it stopped. It was first given to Abraham, then to Isaac, then to Jacob, then to Joseph, and then in Gen.48 Jacob is transferring the Promise to Joseph's two sons born him in Egypt. Ephraim was the younger son, but he was promised to become "a multitude of nations" per Gen.48, and his brother Manasseh was also to become "great", meaning a great people and nation.

Stop and think now about Ephraim becoming "a multitude of nations". The name Israel began with Jacob, and was transferred to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh also, being named in the inheritance of their brethren, Jacob's other sons. Jacob had twelve sons, which are the 12 tribes of Israel (Jacob). Joseph was one of them. The Birthright was transferred to Ephraim and Manasseh. Ephraim the younger took Joseph's place in the main part of the Israelite Birthright, but his brother Manasseh being named as a tribe of Israel technically made Manasseh the 13th tribe of Israel. The point is, Ephraim as "a mutltude of nations" means Israelite nations, more than one. Jacob was to become a "nation and a company of nations" in Gen.35:11, pointing to this event. But historically per a world view, Israel has always made up only ONE nation, not "a multitude of nations". The question is then, where were, or where are, those "multitude of nations", meaning Israelite nations of Ephraim?

The name Israel means 'to prevail with God, or with God's help'. It's the idea our Lord Jesus used in Revelation about 'overcoming' through Him. Israel was the new name God gave to Jacob after he had wrestled with the Angel of The Lord and overcame. Jacob then anointed the pillar stone he slept on with oil, and called it "Beth-El", meaning 'house of God'. That Pillar Stone is part of Israel's history, and made journey with them, and is the rock which Moses was told to smite where water came out of it to water the people and cattle. It is also a symbol for our Lord Jesus Christ; ("smite the rock"). It is the rock upon which the kings of Israel were anointed, either standing upon it or next to it.

So one doesn't come to the significant name of Israel until Jacob, and that was the new name God gave him. It is the Birthright name for The Promise God first gave through Abraham, involving God's Salvation Plan through Christ Jesus and the promised blessings it contains. That is shown in Genesis, because Jacob is still called Jacob after... the name Israel was given him, showing the name Israel in connection with God's Birthright Blessings and Salvation Plan. The Apostle Paul expands on this point in Romans and Galatians about the Promise eventually to include believing Gentiles on Christ.

Per 1 Chron.5, the Birthright was split in two parts; the royal sceptre rule and care of God's Law, and the rest of the promises. We're told Judah was to have the royal sceptre rule and chief ruler, but the Birthright was to Joseph and his two sons, meaning the main part of it. In Gen.49:10, we're shown that Judah was to have possession of royal rule and the law all the way up to Christ's coming and the gathering to Him. And then Christ would inherit David's throne on earth. Ezekiel 21:27 also confirms that. The sceptre was to be overturned three times, and then in final Christ is to come and inherit it. The first overturn happenned with king Zedekiah of Judah and the 70 years Babylon captivity. Do you know who and where the other two overturns of the royal sceptre was? (I'll leave that for you to figure out). All three overturns of Ezek.21 have already happenned. Its next event expecting today is for Christ to come and inherit it on earth.

Per the history of 1 Kings 11 through 2 Kings 17, God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms, and they held war against each other. Judah, Benjamin, and Levi made up the three tribed kingdom of the "house of Judah" in the south at Jerusalem/Judea. The rest of the tribes of Israel, the majority of Israelites, made up the "house of Israel" in the northern kingdom. One of the tribe of Ephraim was put in charge over the ten tribes in the north, and became the first king of Israel over the ten tribes after God split Israel up. That revealed the Gen.48 Promise to Ephraim about the Birthright already beginning to work. Then the ten tribed kingdom fell away from God and did idol worship and abominations, so God brought the king of Assyria upon the ten tribes and took them ALL out of the land, captive to the cities of the Medes. That left only the kingdom of the "house of Judah" at Jerusalem/Judea, where the royal sceptre still was with the house of David, of Judah. About 120 years later, they fell away from God too, and God brought the king of Babylon upon them and took them captive to Babylon. That was in Jeremiah's days.

Zedekiah was the last king of Judah of the royal sceptre part of God's Birthright, in Jerusalem. He was led captive to Babylon, his eyes poked out, and all his son heirs killed. That ended the Birthright throne in Jerusalem, even to this day. There has never been one of the seed of Judah to sit upon a throne in Jerusalem since then. But God did not go back on His Promise to David that Israel would never lack a man to sit upon his throne, forever (2 Samuel 7). The throne was moved. Jeremiah was kin to Zedekiah, the royal family. Jeremiah was kinsmen redeemer to Zedekiah's daughters, the "king's daughters" of the Book of Jeremiah. They could inherit. God's Word is silent on what happenned to Jeremiah and the king's daughters with him after their journey to Tahpanhes in Egypt.

When Christ came, the ten tribes were still scattered through the countries. There is archaeological proof of the ten tribe's captivity north of Babylon (area of northern Iraq), with the Behistun Rock carving. Translations of the Assyrian Tablets have revealed what the Assyrians called the sons of Omri (Omri was a king over the ten tribes at one time). The translation links the ten tribes, the sons of Omri, with the name Cimmerian. And it was the Cimmerian peoples that primarily migrated northward and western into middle and western Europe per history. When they came at the first, they brought their false Baal idol worship with them into Europe. But when Christ Jesus came and died on the cross, they put away their idols and became the western Christian nations, the "multitude of nations" under God's Birthright to Ephraim and Manasseh.

Even though the western Christian nations have never historically been called Israelite nations, nor by the name Israel, those are the main remnants of the lost ten tribes among the Gentiles. Since the majority of the "house of Judah" did not return to Jerusalem after their 70 years Babylon captivity, many of Judah was also scattered along with the Cimmerian peoples to Asia Minor (area of the seven Churches of Revelation). That was to fulfill God's Birthright Promise about Judah keeping the law among God's people, the children of Israel. This is how many of the Gentiles in the west became 'graffed in' to the Root along with the believing remnants of the seed of Israel. In the Book of Acts we see the Apostles preaching to both Israelite and Gentiles within the Churches. Paul preached to a remnant of the British royal family captive in Rome even. And Paul said he wanted to visit the brethren in Spain. Britain has traditions of Paul having come there and preached The Gospel, as Britain actually was the first western nation to accept Christ on a national level, even while Rome was still primarily pagan with no pope. The Book of Galatians which Paul wrote, was to Gauls of the Cimmerian peoples. The root word of Galatia comes from the word Gaul, the name the Romans called the Celtic peoples from the greater branch of Cimmerians that migrated from the east into middle and western Europe.

This is why our Lord Jesus said in Matt.21 with the parable of the husbandmen that His vineyard would be taken away from unbelieving Israel, and given to another nation that would bring forth its fruit. That another nation He was talking about was the "multitude of nations" with Ephraim as head over the rest of the ten tribes, in the West. Paul called it the "commonwealth of Israel" in Ephesians 2. Paul well understood this prophecy, himself being an Old Testament scholar and having been instructed directly by our Lord Jesus, and chosen to preach The Gospel to the Gentiles, and to KINGS, and to the children of Israel (meaning scattered ten tribes with remnants of Judah or Jews). This means, a LOT of peoples in the west with a Cimmerian heritage who always thought they were Gentiles, really are not, but are descended from one of the lost ten tribes of Israel. Judah, or the Jews, never lost their identity as part of Israel, as God promised they wouldn't.

Then we come to the good ole' U.S.A. What peoples from Europe established the first colonies in North America, and in South America? Europeans from those same Cimmerian peoples that founded the early nations of Europe. God's Promises have literal meaning, and this is how He fulfilled those Birthright Promises to His chosen people. The care of The Gospel of Jesus Christ was put in care of these same peoples primarily in the West, and as a result The Gospel has gone forth especially from the West to all the other nations on earth. Care of The Gospel and preaching to the nations is 'our' primary job, Israel's primary responsibility to the nations. God's Birthright Blessing in that is so well established per His Promises to Israel, that He even has made use of the Internet to do that with. The nations with pagan leaders, atheistic leaders, outside the West, have to do all they can to censor the Gospel voice coming from the West to their peoples. And they still haven't been able to silence The Gospel to their own peoples, as the seeds are still getting through to them. And God is watering those seeds to produce fruit with them, as they become our brethren in Christ along with us. Great will be the day when those believers in those third-world nations will no longer have to hide their belief on Christ Jesus from their nation's leadership.
 
If we are in the end times then the US must be babylon. We are the consumer nation. We buy everything the world has to sell. Our trade agreement with China is criticized because it is so one sided. we import 100 times more than we export to China. The same with other nations. We buy all their goods, but they buy very little of ours. It's only getting worse as time goes by. we are loosing all our manufacturing jobs. services are all we have left. of course i could be wrong, but unless things change we are the only ones who really fit the rev 18 description. also we were built on Christ who was our king. Now though we have abandoned him and are a queen and have no king(secular).

Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Rev 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Rev 18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
Rev 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
 
Bob0matiC said:
If we are in the end times then the US must be babylon. We are the consumer nation. We buy everything the world has to sell. Our trade agreement with China is criticized because it is so one sided. we import 100 times more than we export to China. The same with other nations. We buy all their goods, but they buy very little of ours. It's only getting worse as time goes by. we are loosing all our manufacturing jobs. services are all we have left. of course i could be wrong, but unless things change we are the only ones who really fit the rev 18 description. also we were built on Christ who was our king. Now though we have abandoned him and are a queen and have no king(secular).

Rev 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
Rev 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
Rev 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Rev 18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
Rev 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
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Don't be deceived. What do you think Christians in other lands are thinking about their own coutnries today? What would Chinese Christians living in Red China today say about the ways of the world there? Would they label their own country as the Babylon harlot of Revelation? Wouldn't it fit there just as well, since they are such huge exporters of goods to the rest of the world? But the U.S. today has lost much of its manufacturing base already, our government leaders allowing that to happen from globalists prodding through treaties like GATT and NAFTA. Our economic system in the U.S. is near collapse if you haven't noticed, which is the opposite condition of the Revelation prophecy for Babylon that you quoted. But what about China's, and even their threat to sell off their ownership of U.S. Treasury Bonds some say equals one third?

The Babylon harlot of Revelation is used as an end time symbol, but where did it originate? It originated with historical Babylon. What was historical Babylon made up of? It contained the then civilized nations of the world under its power, under one king, Nebuchadnezzar. So it's the system of Globalism you're really talking about, not specifically one nation like the United States. God told us it's His plan to gather the nations, assemble the kingdoms, so as to pour out His cup of indignations upon them (Zech.3). That's the globalist one world government working, and not an independent working of any one nation today. What's going to be interesting in the near future, is where the globalists will setup their king of the world to complete today's copy of historical Babylon...

Jer 51:5-8
5 For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel.
6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD's vengeance; He will render unto her a recompence.
7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.
8 Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed.
(KJV)

The house of Judah went into captivity to Babylon for 70 years because of their iniquity against God. God delivered them into the enemy's hand. But God then protected them during their captivity to Babylon, and they even increased in number and wealth during it. Then God brought the Medes upon Babylon to destroy it, and release His people from the 70 years Babylon capvitity. All those events are to be remembered when studying about the Revelation Babylon symbols. Isaiah 13 is another example of Babylon's destruction which parallels the destruction of the Revelation Babylon.

Isa 47:3-10
3 Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.
4 As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is His name, the Holy One of Israel.
5 Sit thou silent, and get thee into darkness, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called, The lady of kingdoms.
6 I was wroth with My people, I have polluted Mine inheritance, and given them into thine hand: thou didst shew them no mercy; upon the ancient hast thou very heavily laid thy yoke.
7 And thou saidst, I shall be a lady for ever: so that thou didst not lay these things to thy heart, neither didst remember the latter end of it.
8 Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children:
9 But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments.
10 For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me.
(KJV)

That was about historical Babylon, but surely one can see the comparisons in Revelation.

Rev 18:3-7
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
(KJV)

AND ESPECIALLY, the very last verse of Rev.17 tells us the "woman", "the great whore that sitteth upon many waters", is a certain city that reigns over the kings of the earth. Thus Rev.17-19 is talking about a controlling city over the whole earth as the Babylon harlot, not a specific nation.

Rev 17:12-18
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for He is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

These ten kings will only come to power when the "beast" arrives. The beast it refers to is the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward, also the beast that ascends up from the bottomless pit per Rev.11. It's about the "dragon", a false king that will rule over the rest of the kings on the earth. It's these that our Lord Jesus with His angels will come to earth and destroy to end this world.

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

The "waters" represent "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues". It means the whole earth. The ten horns is the first beast of Rev.13:1, the political system over all nations on the earth. That system of power will hate the symbolic whore, showing the harlot or whore is different than the political system.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil His will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The idea is the leaders of all nations giving their kingdoms over into the hand of the "beast", the one-world political system.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.(KJV)

But the "woman", the harlot of Rev.17, is a great city which reigns over those other ten kings controlling the whole earth. It means a certain city where the one-world king will be setup. The setting up of that world king has yet to take place today.
 
Wouldn't it fit there just as well, since they are such huge exporters of goods to the rest of the world? But the U.S. today has lost much of its manufacturing base already,
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My point is not that we export, but that we import. We buy everything. China wouldn't have the economic boom they have now if we didn't buy their goods. Is there one country that imports as many goods as we do. We have all but quit manufacturing, instead we just consume. Isn't that what rev 18 says Babylon is the worlds consumer. All the countries of the world will lament our passing. Where will they sell their goods when we are gone. I may be wrong, but it sure sounds like the US to me.
 
My point is not that we export, but that we import. We buy everything. China wouldn't have the economic boom they have now if we didn't buy their goods. Is there one country that imports as many goods as we do. We have all but quit manufacturing, instead we just consume. Isn't that what rev 18 says Babylon is the worlds consumer. All the countries of the world will lament our passing. Where will they sell their goods when we are gone. I may be wrong, but it sure sounds like the US to me.
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I understood, but if you want to key on the wealth point per the prophecy, then notice the Revelation Babylon is the one with all the goods to sell...

Rev 18:10-13
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
(KJV)

Per the prophecy, Babylon is the seller of goods, not the consumer.

While many were sleeping...

Concerning our nation's manufacturing base being gone, I'm with you; I don't like it one bit either. I preached and preached to people about the dangers of GATT and NAFTA, for people to write their congressman to protest against allowing such legislation, etc. It didn't help any. Al Gore when he was Vice President was one of the main initiator's behind the free trade agreement with Red China.

We're in times today that require us to think on a larger scale, because the move towards a one-world government can easily be seen at work. That's why our leaders have passed legislation to allow our manufacturing base to go overseas, by letting American corporations expand their operations to foreign nations, charging us the same high prices while reaping the profits of cheap labor in those poorer nations. The reason they're being allowed that is so to bring the economies and standards of living of the third-world nations up, while taking our's down to meet them in the middle. Can't have a realistic one-world government if other nations are still struggling in poverty. This is especially what the various American Trade organizations and agreements have been about in our own hemisphere, finding a way to balance the economies of South and Latin America with our's and Canada's. The North American Security and Prosperity Partnership joining the U.S., Mexico, and Canada economically is already in the works too. (see research on that by the author and journalist Jerome Corsi).

Our Lord foretold us about this globalist nation joining in His Word. It's what the first "beast" of Rev.13:1 is about, a world kingdom based on the patterns of the previous historical beast kingdoms of the Book of Daniel.

Rev 13:4
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
(KJV)

Once all nations are under the control of a one-world government, that means the militaries of all nations under the control of one system and one head. Who can make war with the one-world system if all militaries and nations are under its control? Only our Lord Jesus can, when He will come to destroy that system. Can you not see why the end is going to happen this way? God told us in His Word about this kind of working in the last days. He has ordained this to happen in the ends of this world. And we are supposed to understand this from what He showed us in His Word about it.
 
This gathering of nations together to form a one-world system is what God said He was going to do at the very end of this world (Zech.3). In Isaiah 8 from the historical Babylon as pattern, He said for His servants to not fear it, neither be for it; and to especially know that in time He would strike it down.

I know it seems for many in the West this kind of thing could never happen. But all things belong to God. He gives and takes away according to His purposes, not ours. And the one world system is something He has purposed for the very end of this world. The reason why He gave a lot of Scripture warning about its coming is so His servants would prepare for it, especially spiritually. We are to make a spiritual stand against the one-world system, not a physical one. If ever there was a time for spiritual battle, it's definitely in the end of days. We're to put on the whole armour of God to make a stand for Christ, giving His Testimony, even to the death if needs be. And we are not have fear.

Are some still having a hard time believing our nation is going to be subservient under a world power that will engulf all other nations too? There are many ways it has already happenned, with our political leaders signing over control to a world body like the United Nations and its international sub-groups. A small group of internationalists stand to make huge sums of wealth off such a world system, even though it reduces the economies in historically stronger nations in the West.

But does that mean everyone else like us is going to starve? No. Again, the pattern for the Revelation beast system over all nations is based on the historical Babylon pattern, when God allowed the king of Babylon to take His people in Jerusalem/Judea captive to Babylon for 70 years. In the Book of Jeremiah God told Israel they would be taken care of while captive to Babylon, that they'd build houses, plant vineyards, and even the number of their people would increase. Does that sound like starvation per the historical Babylon pattern? No. When the 70 years captivity ended, the Jews had it so good while captive in Babylon that the majority of them didn't even want to go back to Jerusalem to start afresh. Per Ezra, he looked around at the small remnant returning to Jerusalem and saw no Levite priests returning! Even they were content to stay in Babylon.

So the very end of this world is not going to be all out war, nor total starvation. Instead, it's going to be a time of prosperity the poorer nations have never had. The globalists are trying to balance the wealth of nations. And the false one that is to come, that will be setup as world king, he also is going to be for the idea of peace and prosperity. Dan.11 even shows that 'craft' will prosper by his hand. He will use peace to destroy as written there, which means that will be his main modus operandi. He will use the principle of peace to conquer all nations, and join them all together. This reveals the final joining of all nations according to what internationalists have been wanting for a long time. It will only happen when that false one arrives on the world scene, and it will end all wars, which is specifically what the start up of the League of Nations was about (now called the United Nations).

The coming beast system, or one world government, will be diverse from all other previous beast kingdoms that have gone before. In the ways above that's how it will be different. And because it will be a time of "Peace and safety", for that's what the deceived who get onboard the system will say, it is going to cause a type of deception over the world on a level that has never been before. One of the ways God made the people of Israel wealthy was the time of the Jubilee, when all debtors were excused of their debts. How would you like it if the debt owed on your $300,000 house were suddenly excused, never having to pay it? Many will gladly bow in worship to the false one with that done for them.

Rev 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
(KJV)

The "souls of men" is one of the items on the merchandise list the Revelation Babylon deals in. Christ paid the price for those who believe The Father through Him, but the false one that's coming is going to try and buy souls, through deception using peace and prosperity. I wonder how many will be left that will refuse to be bribed when that time comes.
 
veteran said:
This gathering of nations together to form a one-world system is what God said He was going to do at the very end of this world (Zech.3). In Isaiah 8 from the historical Babylon as pattern, He said for His servants to not fear it, neither be for it; and to especially know that in time He would strike it down.

I know it seems for many in the West this kind of thing could never happen. But all things belong to God. He gives and takes away according to His purposes, not ours. And the one world system is something He has purposed for the very end of this world. The reason why He gave a lot of Scripture warning about its coming is so His servants would prepare for it, especially spiritually. We are to make a spiritual stand against the one-world system, not a physical one. If ever there was a time for spiritual battle, it's definitely in the end of days. We're to put on the whole armour of God to make a stand for Christ, giving His Testimony, even to the death if needs be. And we are not have fear.

Are some still having a hard time believing our nation is going to be subservient under a world power that will engulf all other nations too? There are many ways it has already happenned, with our political leaders signing over control to a world body like the United Nations and its international sub-groups. A small group of internationalists stand to make huge sums of wealth off such a world system, even though it reduces the economies in historically stronger nations in the West.

But does that mean everyone else like us is going to starve? No. Again, the pattern for the Revelation beast system over all nations is based on the historical Babylon pattern, when God allowed the king of Babylon to take His people in Jerusalem/Judea captive to Babylon for 70 years. In the Book of Jeremiah God told Israel they would be taken care of while captive to Babylon, that they'd build houses, plant vineyards, and even the number of their people would increase. Does that sound like starvation per the historical Babylon pattern? No. When the 70 years captivity ended, the Jews had it so good while captive in Babylon that the majority of them didn't even want to go back to Jerusalem to start afresh. Per Ezra, he looked around at the small remnant returning to Jerusalem and saw no Levite priests returning! Even they were content to stay in Babylon.

So the very end of this world is not going to be all out war, nor total starvation. Instead, it's going to be a time of prosperity the poorer nations have never had. The globalists are trying to balance the wealth of nations. And the false one that is to come, that will be setup as world king, he also is going to be for the idea of peace and prosperity. Dan.11 even shows that 'craft' will prosper by his hand. He will use peace to destroy as written there, which means that will be his main modus operandi. He will use the principle of peace to conquer all nations, and join them all together. This reveals the final joining of all nations according to what internationalists have been wanting for a long time. It will only happen when that false one arrives on the world scene, and it will end all wars, which is specifically what the start up of the League of Nations was about (now called the United Nations).

The coming beast system, or one world government, will be diverse from all other previous beast kingdoms that have gone before. In the ways above that's how it will be different. And because it will be a time of "Peace and safety", for that's what the deceived who get onboard the system will say, it is going to cause a type of deception over the world on a level that has never been before. One of the ways God made the people of Israel wealthy was the time of the Jubilee, when all debtors were excused of their debts. How would you like it if the debt owed on your $300,000 house were suddenly excused, never having to pay it? Many will gladly bow in worship to the false one with that done for them.

Rev 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
(KJV)

The "souls of men" is one of the items on the merchandise list the Revelation Babylon deals in. Christ paid the price for those who believe The Father through Him, but the false one that's coming is going to try and buy souls, through deception using peace and prosperity. I wonder how many will be left that will refuse to be bribed when that time comes.
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This gathering of nations together to form a one-world system is what God said He was going to do at the very end of this world
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Not only has God said that,,,,,,but He has given us shadows/types of this thru the word,,,Nimrod...
 
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

The merchants of the earth mourn over her because they now have nowhere to sell their merchandise

They mourn because on one buys their goods now that Babylon is gone

How do you not see that?

the merchants mourn no one buyeth their

their as in merchants

china mourns because we don't buy enough of their goods now
Mexico mourns because we don't buy enough of their goods

the world will mourn our passing not because they love us so much but because they would have no one to buy their merchandise


Japan would weep and mourn over us because no man would buy their merchandise

Pakistan would mourn over us; for no man would buy their pakistan knives and tools

The world economy would crash
China's sudden economic boom would crash; for no man would buy their merchandise

I may be wrong but the verse you posted only supports my point. I'm sorry if this seems harsh but i think you have completely missunderstood the verse
 
If I have misread the verse, then you're real point must be to misassign the Revelation Babylon symbol to the United States no matter what. Is that what you intend to do, regardless of how the verse reads?

Rev 18:3
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.(KJV)

Rev 18:11-13
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

This verse shows the merchants weep because no man buys THEIR merchandise anymore.

Yeah, I got that. Did you get that part about "all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication"? If so, then why would you want to point only to one nation like the United States?

And you did complain that the U.S. is losing its manufacturing base. Well what nations are gaining a manufacturing base, and who are the merchants that are getting rich off that? Do those merchants only dwell in the U.S.? No. Only in the West? No. In other words, it's about the wealthy merchants that get rich through the Babylon harlot, regardless of the geographical location. It's about Internationalists, for possession of wealth and power is their country. It's about those among "all nations" that have drunk the wine of the wrath of her fornication. It's about the system of "one world government".

But per the last verse of Rev.17, the Babylon harlot is a specific 'city'...

Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
(KJV)

That "great city" our Lord mentions is the Babylon harlot, the center of the system, ground zero. In Rev.11:8, and per the Old Testament Babylon examples, our Lord is pointing to Jerusalem in the hands of His enemies. I can tell who hasn't done their Old Testament study on this, because there's many assigning the Babylon harlot to so many things other than what God already showed in His Word about Babylon and the idea of spiritual harlotry (false worship), especially concerning Jerusalem throughout its earth history.
 
If I have misread the verse, then you're real point must be to misassign the Revelation Babylon symbol to the United States no matter what. Is that what you intend to do, regardless of how the verse reads?
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If you misread the verse, then I must be trying to misassign Babylon????

This is turning into a fruitless argument, and I think it's best if I just end it here
 
Brother Lionel said:
nonbelieverforums said:
Why is the United States not mentioned in Bible Prophecy whatsoever.
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The USA is DEFINITELY in bible prophecy. They will play a major role in the end times.
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I definitely agree.....
 
Well, London financiers are the center of the free-market imperialism. I mean, it's even called British Free Trade.

There is your ground zero. The Wall St. Bailouts even went to bailout London based banks.

It is not as if Britain produces anything...

The blame is attempted to be put on the US to destroy Christianity [well, among other things, like nation states in general]- for this country was founded on Christian principles.
 
In order to understand who "Mystery" Babylon is, you first have to understand the original prophecy of Genesis 3:15, "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel," and it helps to understand who the Gentiles are. Also you must understand about what and who the NWO/Illuminati is. Once you understand all these things, it will start to make sense who and what Mystery Babylon is, and the whole picture becomes more clear. And it is not the United States. It is global in nature, but yet it is a total mystery to most people who have no clue of its existence. Hence, the term "mystery."

There's a poster on some other forums named Wingedlion/Whiterider who explains all of this in more detail.
 
ThreshingSword said:
In order to understand who "Mystery" Babylon is, you first have to understand the original prophecy of Genesis 3:15, "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel," and it helps to understand who the Gentiles are. Also you must understand about what and who the NWO/Illuminati is. Once you understand all these things, it will start to make sense who and what Mystery Babylon is, and the whole picture becomes more clear. And it is not the United States. It is global in nature, but yet it is a total mystery to most people who have no clue of its existence. Hence, the term "mystery."

There's a poster on some other forums named Wingedlion/Whiterider who explains all of this in more detail.
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My point exactly too. The evil "workers of iniquity" that are the real movers behind the plan for one world government don't specifically have a country. Internationalism does NOT involve just one single nation or area on earth. Our Lord Jesus showed this specifically in Rev.17:15 when He declared the "waters" ("sea" of the Rev.13:1 beast) represent peoples, multitudes, tongues and nations, i.e., the whole earth.

But the "workers of iniquity", or the "mystery of iniquity" Apostle Paul pointed to, really love it when the deceived point to the problem being a specific nation like the United States, or even an area like Rome. Doing that helps get the 'heat' off them, and places it somewhere else so deception can keep working.

The "workers of iniquity" serve the devil. Let that soak in. They KNOW Who God and His Christ is, and they KNOW who the devil is, but they knowingly serve the devil. God has His elect servants on earth, and the devil has his elect servants on earth also. The battle is real, and it's here on earth. And those workers exist in all nations and governments, not just in the United States.

Our Lord Jesus revealed a lot about them with the parable of the tares of the field (Matt.13). A tare is a weed that grows among wheat, and it looks just like real wheat until it's fully grown. When fully grown, it shoots forth a black bud on its end showing that its a weed, and not wheat. In the parable the field hand asked his master how tares got into the wheat if he sowed good wheat, and then asked if he wanted him to go ahead and harvest the wheat early. The master said no, lest you mistakenly harvest some of the good wheat also, throwing them into the fire. But wait until the harvest time, when both are fully grown, separate the tares from the wheat and thrown them into the fire, but bring the wheat into his barn.

The Message is that ever since the Garden of Eden, there's been a hidden enemy at work among God's people, involving a 'mystery'. Like tares that aren't fully grown, you can't recognize them, so you can't be sure if you're getting a real tare by culling them out early. This is why our Lord Jesus said you'll know them by their fruit. But some of the good wheat being deceived, could be producing the wrong fruit too, in ignorance. So we still can't be sure if we try to separate the tares from the good wheat until Christ comes. This reveals God has a negative side of His Salvation Plan in effect also. The job of the tares is to test His people, to see if we will listen to God through His Son and remain faithful, all the way up to Christ's second coming.

Just before Christ's coming, there's to be a time of the strongest deception upon this earth that has ever been per history. The "mystery of iniquity" has not taken complete control of this earth yet today, but that time is near. So pointing the finger at the United States, Britain, or any historically Christian nation in the West is way... off target, and shows going into early stages of deception. God gave us a SPECIFIC list of nations in Ezekiel 38 that are to come upon against Israel in the last days. If any pointing is done, it should be pointing to those nations on that list, and not even to all peoples in those nations, for many of them are Christians, and peace loving people (good wheat). So don't let the "tares" deceive you into the pointing game, they only do that to build up dissent among God's people among all nations.
 
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