The use of Lexicons and Strongs Concordance.

[JLB]

In addition to the criteria of not using other people’s writings or internet links in our discussions, I would like to add that using lexicons and the Strongs Concordance is permitted, especially when we get into defining and understanding biblical words and terms. That being said, we will strive to allow the biblical definition to take precedence.


Example:


Here is the definition of faith according to the Strongs -

Faith pistis. Strongs G4102 - Noun


I. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
A. relating to God
i. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
B. relating to Christ
i. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
C. the religious beliefs of Christians
D. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
II. fidelity, faithfulness
A. the character of one who can be relied on


Faith -
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1


THE POINT:

Bible dictionary’s, lexicons, and study guides are a good place to start, but are not necessarily the final say on how a biblical word is defined.

 

[PeterJens]

In addition to the criteria of not using other people’s writings or internet links in our discussions, I would like to add that using lexicons and the Strongs Concordance is permitted, especially when we get into defining and understanding biblical words and terms. That being said, we will strive to allow the biblical definition to take precedence.


Example:


Here is the definition of faith according to the Strongs -

Faith pistis. Strongs G4102 - Noun


I. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
A. relating to God
i. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
B. relating to Christ
i. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
C. the religious beliefs of Christians
D. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
II. fidelity, faithfulness
A. the character of one who can be relied on


Faith -
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1


THE POINT:

Bible dictionary’s, lexicons, and study guides are a good place to start, but are not necessarily the final say on how a biblical word is defined.

This raises are interesting point in regard to two individuals I have come across.
1 took a word and went into the greek and language to ask about the meaning of a word in plural or singular, applied to the believer or to God etc.
The mistake seemed to be that there was one definitive answer, but rather all considerations needed to be asked, and then accepted or dismissed in relation to other scripture and understanding.

Another individual took a word, like repentance, and defined it in a greek unbelievers context and not a hebrew Mosaic law context. The reality was an emotional desire to see God from their assumed theological perspective, as truth, and not their were other perspectives that were more biblical or powerful in terms of application and context.

Sometimes the context of the culture, opens up a totally different perspective, where an audience that the letter or gospel is addressed would speak loudly one way and not another.

In my first reading of scripture when I was a teenager, I realised I did not understand most of the meaning of the words or its interaction. It is clearly difficult to understand words, sentences, spoken within a massive context of scripture.
So I agree commentaries and lexicons point towards the inter connectedness of meanings and its reality.

A further interesting understanding of words is the Jewish meaning of a word or their perspectives. Though this might not be authoritative, it fills in the background of such subjects and how the theme would be understood as all of scripture has been written by Jews.

 

[stovebolts]

This raises are interesting point in regard to two individuals I have come across.
1 took a word and went into the greek and language to ask about the meaning of a word in plural or singular, applied to the believer or to God etc.
The mistake seemed to be that there was one definitive answer, but rather all considerations needed to be asked, and then accepted or dismissed in relation to other scripture and understanding.

Another individual took a word, like repentance, and defined it in a greek unbelievers context and not a hebrew Mosaic law context. The reality was an emotional desire to see God from their assumed theological perspective, as truth, and not their were other perspectives that were more biblical or powerful in terms of application and context.

Sometimes the context of the culture, opens up a totally different perspective, where an audience that the letter or gospel is addressed would speak loudly one way and not another.

In my first reading of scripture when I was a teenager, I realised I did not understand most of the meaning of the words or its interaction. It is clearly difficult to understand words, sentences, spoken within a massive context of scripture.
So I agree commentaries and lexicons point towards the inter connectedness of meanings and its reality.

A further interesting understanding of words is the Jewish meaning of a word or their perspectives. Though this might not be authoritative, it fills in the background of such subjects and how the theme would be understood as all of scripture has been written by Jews.

I would agree Peter.
I would also note that we need to be aware of our own bias and the bias of our sources.

For example, Strongs is an excellent example of bias toward their own work and should not be used to take the place of a good lexicon. This is not to invalidate nor take away from Stongs by any means. It is an excellent resource, but it should be used as an aid, and not in an authoritative since.

You brought up the example of ancient Hebrew. An example of what I'm talking about could be the word sacrifice within the context of altar.

The jist of sacrifice in Hebrew is "to draw near"
Contrast this with Strongs.

Strong's Concordance
anapheró: to carry up, lead up
Original Word: ἀναφέρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: anapheró
Phonetic Spelling: (an-af-er'-o)
Definition: to carry up, lead up
Usage: (a) I carry up, lead up, (b) I offer up (on a high altar) as a sacrifice, offer up to God on high.

Here is a link with Strongs as well as other resources for Sacrifice.

https://biblehub.com/greek/399.html

In contrast, below is an accepted Orthodox Jewish understanding of the word sacrifice.

However, the Hebrew word for "sacrifice" (korban, le-hakriv) is from the same root as "to come near, to approach. . . . to become closely involved in a relationship with someone." For this is meant to be the essence of the experience which the bearer of the sacrifice undergoes. Indeed, it is unfortunate that no word in the English language can adequately render the idea behind the Hebrew word korban. We allow ourselves to use the word "sacrifice" for lack of a better word, but it is a highly unsuccessful attempt at translation; it could even be called unfortunate.

The Temple Institute: Articles: The Sacrificial Service

The Temple Institute is dedicated to teaching the significance of the Holy Temple to the spiritual well being of all nations, and creating vessels and garments ready for use in the Third Temple service.

www.templeinstitute.org

 

[JLB]

Another individual took a word, like repentance, and defined it in a greek unbelievers context and not a hebrew Mosaic law context. The reality was an emotional desire to see God from their assumed theological perspective, as truth, and not their were other perspectives that were more biblical or powerful in terms of application and context.

Which is why I like to refer to scripture and see how scripture defines a word, or uses a word in context to help us.


The word repent is one of my favorite, because it’s reveals the love and intention of God for us.


If we go strictly by the Strongs of lexicon, we lose the depth and true meaning of the word.


With that being said, I will start the thread called:

Defining and Understanding Biblical Words and Terms.

I will be coming from more of a biblical perspective, while you may come from a perspective of understanding Greek and Hebrew. It should be good.




JLB

 

[JLB]

I would agree Peter.
I would also note that we need to be aware of our own bias and the bias of our sources.

For example, Strongs is an excellent example of bias toward their own work and should not be used to take the place of a good lexicon. This is not to invalidate nor take away from Stongs by any means. It is an excellent resource, but it should be used as an aid, and not in an authoritative since.

You brought up the example of ancient Hebrew. An example of what I'm talking about could be the word sacrifice within the context of altar.

The jist of sacrifice in Hebrew is "to draw near"
Contrast this with Strongs.

Strong's Concordance
anapheró: to carry up, lead up
Original Word: ἀναφέρω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: anapheró
Phonetic Spelling: (an-af-er'-o)
Definition: to carry up, lead up
Usage: (a) I carry up, lead up, (b) I offer up (on a high altar) as a sacrifice, offer up to God on high.

Here is a link with Strongs as well as other resources for Sacrifice.

https://biblehub.com/greek/399.html

In contrast, below is an accepted Orthodox Jewish understanding of the word sacrifice.

The Temple Institute: Articles: The Sacrificial Service

The Temple Institute is dedicated to teaching the significance of the Holy Temple to the spiritual well being of all nations, and creating vessels and garments ready for use in the Third Temple service.

www.templeinstitute.org

This is awesome.


Thank you.




JLB

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

I think I will be around awhile as I like the way this has been set up and your heart for the truth shows through it all.

I am an avid word study person and a huge topic study person.

For years I wondered where all this studying would lead me that the Holy Spirit guided me through.
It was so deep I couldn't imagine ever getting to share all of Gods truth I had learned, that I had never heard before, when I was called to study in depth the last 5 years of a 42 year study - SO FAR. In a few days I'll be 77, just a healthy young lover of people God, and life - oh yeah... and SNOW

Now by Gods miraculous grace and mercy, God has opened a door to maybe my next season of life - I've been invited to share what God has brought to my heart and head.
God is truly BEAUTIFUL.

My name is OLIGOS

 

[Mungo]

A point to consider is that English words often have a wide range of meanings, and some meanings change over time. I expect the same is true of Greek, though I'm no expert on that.

Therefore the way a word is used in one place in scripture may not be the way it is used in another.

I think that is especially true when it is used in a figure of speech.

 

[JLB]

A point to consider is that English words often have a wide range of meanings, and some meanings change over time. I expect the same is true of Greek, though I'm no expert on that.

Therefore the way a word is used in one place in scripture may not be the way it is used in another.

I think that is especially true when it is used in a figure of speech.

Very true.

Hebraic idioms are one example of a figure of speech.

“A thorn in my flesh“, is one example.

The point I was making, however is a word meaning that is defined in the bible should be considered as primary or foundational, over that which is defined by concordances, which are based on a persons knowledge of the language.

This is why some people use one type of concordance over another.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Another individual took a word, like repentance, and defined it in a greek unbelievers context and not a hebrew Mosaic law context. The reality was an emotional desire to see God from their assumed theological perspective, as truth, and not their were other perspectives that were more biblical or powerful in terms of application and context.

Sometimes the context of the culture, opens up a totally different perspective, where an audience that the letter or gospel is addressed would speak loudly one way and not another.

In my first reading of scripture when I was a teenager, I realised I did not understand most of the meaning of the words or its interaction. It is clearly difficult to understand words, sentences, spoken within a massive context of scripture.
So I agree commentaries and lexicons point towards the inter connectedness of meanings and its reality.

A further interesting understanding of words is the Jewish meaning of a word or their perspectives. Though this might not be authoritative, it fills in the background of such subjects and how the theme would be understood as all of scripture has been written by Jews.

This is so true.

Especially with a word such as repent.

I tend to stick to the biblical definition.


Maybe you could share with us the different nuances of the word in Greek and Hebrew.



JLB

 

[PeterJens]

A further note to this subject hit me between the eyes recently.
Emotional context, can change the meaning of a phrase from something cold to something stunning.

Loyalty is a strong word, that often seems out of place for me. He was loyal to the group, so he
broke the law. He did not rat out his friend.

But Jesus tells us to put God above everything else. And to put aside loyalties to everyone else
in comparison. Deny Jesus, He will deny you, speak up for Jesus and He will speak up for you.

Jesus is looking for us to love others because we know we want to love, not just because we
want to please God. Or is this love in a distasteful way, being nice to others who we dislike?

A mother said of her daughter, she did not like her daughter but loved her.
But in this there is a contradiction. Liking another is feeling approval and empathy, echoing
another person. Loving for some is a command, like you have to pretend and be nice for show.

Another believer told me the heart is desperately wicked so resolving or even asking what is in
ones heart is pointless.

Jesus breaks all this with one phrase, if you cannot forgive your brother from your heart you cannot
be forgiven by the Lord.

How do you forgive an evil act, a passion that hurts, an intention intended to tear down?
The answer is because sin distorts the heart and makes evil feel good, revenge is sweet,
causing hurt for hurt is justice. One destructive act only stops because love lays down its life.

But how many believers think love has to flow from them to others to be real, to be the fulfilment
of eternal life, to be what the resurrection is all about?

It is so much easier to say I am saved, alone, just me, and what does in matter about others, they
have to answer to God, I am not part of the equation.

Suddenly hating ones family makes sense when loyalty to God cuts across loyalty to the group.
Jesus not condemning the woman caught in adultery, was to demonstrate grace for the future,
not condemnation for failure.

Scripture is hard when we see the shadow it puts on our attitudes and behaviour. But that is the
point, we need to seek and find, ask and knock, know and be known. God bless you

 

[RBDERRICK]

Bible dictionary’s, lexicons, and study guides are a good place to start, but are not necessarily the final say on how a biblical word is defined.

It's a good point to address, because it's important. I never allow any dictionary, lexicon, or commentary to become any proof of Bible dictrine.

I read, believe, teach, dispute by Scripture alone as the beginning and final say on how Bible words are defined. It's letting God define His own words by how He defines and uses them in Scripture.

Example: Wisdom is exactly defined by God:

Job 28:28And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Dictionaries give a secular definition of wisdom without the fear of the Lord. They are philsophic defintions that sound wise, but give no way of having wisdom.

Bible dictionaries do include the fear of the Lord and living by it, which is good, but not the simple definition of wisdom given in the Bible.

And so, I never go to secular dictionaries for definitions of Bible words, but rather seek God's definition by studying His word. And Bible based dictionaries, including language lexicons, can be a reasonable supplement, but never can be beginning nor ending proof of any doctrine of Christ from Scripture.

2Ti 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

All such dictionaries, lexicons, commentaries become a snare if they are sought after for answers and/or proofs to God's word. And the snare is twofold: much study to no profit, and knowledge pride rather than godly wisdom to do His word and be aproved of God Himself.

Ecc 12:10The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth. The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd. And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

1Co 13:2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Co 8:1 Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

And finally the worst of all is thinking we really know something about God's word and have nailed it down shut, by all this study and adherence to supplemental things, and have missed the simple truth of Scripture in manner of life:

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

James{1:22} But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein,] he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[JLB]

It's a good point to address, because it's important. I never allow any dictionary, lexicon, or commentary to become any proof of Bible dictrine.

I read, believe, teach, dispute by Scripture alone as the beginning and final say on how Bible words are defined. It's letting God define His own words by how He defines and uses them in Scripture.

Example: Wisdom is exactly defined by God:

Job 28:28And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Dictionaries give a secular definition of wisdom without the fear of the Lord. They are philsophic defintions that sound wise, but give no way of having wisdom.

Bible dictionaries do include the fear of the Lord and living by it, which is good, but not the simple definition of wisdom given in the Bible.

And so, I never go to secular dictionaries for definitions of Bible words, but rather seek God's definition by studying His word. And Bible based dictionaries, including language lexicons, can be a reasonable supplement, but never can be beginning nor ending proof of any doctrine of Christ from Scripture.

2Ti 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

All such dictionaries, lexicons, commentaries become a snare if they are sought after for answers and/or proofs to God's word. And the snare is twofold: much study to no profit, and knowledge pride rather than godly wisdom to do His word and be aproved of God Himself.

Ecc 12:10The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth. The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd. And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

1Co 13:2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Co 8:1 Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

And finally the worst of all is thinking we really know something about God's word and have nailed it down shut, by all this study and adherence to supplemental things, and have missed the simple truth of Scripture in manner of life:

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

James{1:22} But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein,] he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

God bless Houston Texas!

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

It's a good point to address, because it's important. I never allow any dictionary, lexicon, or commentary to become any proof of Bible dictrine.

I read, believe, teach, dispute by Scripture alone as the beginning and final say on how Bible words are defined. It's letting God define His own words by how He defines and uses them in Scripture.

Example: Wisdom is exactly defined by God:

Job 28:28And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Dictionaries give a secular definition of wisdom without the fear of the Lord. They are philsophic defintions that sound wise, but give no way of having wisdom.

Bible dictionaries do include the fear of the Lord and living by it, which is good, but not the simple definition of wisdom given in the Bible.

And so, I never go to secular dictionaries for definitions of Bible words, but rather seek God's definition by studying His word. And Bible based dictionaries, including language lexicons, can be a reasonable supplement, but never can be beginning nor ending proof of any doctrine of Christ from Scripture.

2Ti 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

All such dictionaries, lexicons, commentaries become a snare if they are sought after for answers and/or proofs to God's word. And the snare is twofold: much study to no profit, and knowledge pride rather than godly wisdom to do His word and be aproved of God Himself.

You do know that you are placing a great deal of trust in the people who created and used the resources you are castigating, right? You do know that the Bible was not originally written in English, but in Hebrew, Greek, and several other languages to a lesser extent. And to make matters worse, we do not have a single copy of any book of the Bible that was written by the original author. All we have are copies of coppies. And all our copies don't 100% agree with each other.

So, someone must decide which copies are most trustworthy. And someone must decide how best to translate the original languages into other languages. And none of these dicisions are made without consulting experts in various fields of study, including manuscript anlysis and meaning of words.

So, is it wise to take all those people's decisions at face value and not look at the evidence yourself? At a minimum, it would be wise to consult a variety of translations instead of just one to get a better understanding of the original intent of passages, wouldn't you think?

Ecc 12:10The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth. The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd. And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

1Co 13:2And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1Co 8:1 Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

And finally the worst of all is thinking we really know something about God's word and have nailed it down shut, by all this study and adherence to supplemental things, and have missed the simple truth of Scripture in manner of life:

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

This is one of my all-time favorite passages. When I was legalistic, it helped me beat people with the Bible. Now that I am free, it helps me convince people they need to seek God's mercy.

James{1:22} But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein,] he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[electedbyHim]

In addition to the criteria of not using other people’s writings or internet links in our discussions, I would like to add that using lexicons and the Strongs Concordance is permitted, especially when we get into defining and understanding biblical words and terms. That being said, we will strive to allow the biblical definition to take precedence.


Example:


Here is the definition of faith according to the Strongs -

Faith pistis. Strongs G4102 - Noun


I. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
A. relating to God
i. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
B. relating to Christ
i. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
C. the religious beliefs of Christians
D. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
II. fidelity, faithfulness
A. the character of one who can be relied on


Faith -
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1


THE POINT:

Bible dictionary’s, lexicons, and study guides are a good place to start, but are not necessarily the final say on how a biblical word is defined.

In addition to the criteria of not using other people’s writings or internet links in our discussions

Why not use other peoples writings?

 

[JLB]

Why not use other peoples writings?

Disciples of Jesus Christ study and obey His teachings.

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

 

[electedbyHim]

Disciples of Jesus Christ study and obey His teachings.

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:31-32


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

Are you saying those that use other sources than the Bible are not disciples of Christ?

Lexicons and Strongs Concordance are not Christ's teachings, but you use them.​

 

[JLB]

Are you saying those that use other sources than the Bible are not disciples of Christ?

Lexicons and Strongs Concordance are not Christ's teachings, but you use them.​

In addition to the criteria of not using other people’s writings or internet links in our discussions, I would like to add that using lexicons and the Strongs Concordance is permitted, especially when we get into defining and understanding biblical words and terms. That being said, we will strive to allow the biblical definition to take precedence.


Example:


Here is the definition of faith according to the Strongs -

Faith pistis. Strongs G4102 - Noun


I. conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man's relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it
A. relating to God
i. the conviction that God exists and is the creator and ruler of all things, the provider and bestower of eternal salvation through Christ
B. relating to Christ
i. a strong and welcome conviction or belief that Jesus is the Messiah, through whom we obtain eternal salvation in the kingdom of God
C. the religious beliefs of Christians
D. belief with the predominate idea of trust (or confidence) whether in God or in Christ, springing from faith in the same
II. fidelity, faithfulness
A. the character of one who can be relied on


Faith -
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1


THE POINT:

Bible dictionary’s, lexicons, and study guides are a good place to start, but are not necessarily the final say on how a biblical word is defined.

In addition to the criteria of not using other people’s writings or internet links in our discussions, I would like to add that using lexicons and the Strongs Concordance is permitted, especially when we get into defining and understanding biblical words and terms. That being said, we will strive to allow the biblical definition to take precedence.

 

[RBDERRICK]

God bless Houston Texas!

Amen. it's an old saying still true, Blessed to be in Texas.

 

[RBDERRICK]

You do know that you are placing a great deal of trust in the people who created and used the resources you are castigating, right?

My trust is in the Bible. All other works can be helpful, but not proof of Bible doctrine. Unless they point to the Scripture that does prove Bible truth.

You do know that the Bible was not originally written in English, but in Hebrew, Greek, and several other languages to a lesser extent.

If you are saying I am castigating the people God used to preserve the Scriptures over the millenia, as well as those used by Christ to accurately translate those words into all languages of the earth, then you need to do a better job of reading what people say, and not read insults into it.

A site rule says to let people speak for themselves, and not impute things to them they never said. I have learned to avoid this by asking for clarification.

Disagreement with an argument can be healthy, so long as the disagreement is with the argument actually made.

And to make matters worse, we do not have a single copy of any book of the Bible that was written by the original author. All we have are copies of coppies. And all our copies don't 100% agree with each other.

The arguemnt is about the usefulness of secular dictionaries and Bible supplements to learn Bible truth.

What you are instead arguing is about the Bible itself. Are you suggesting the Bible is not all Scripture of God? Christ has not preserved all His original words given to His prophets and apostles?

So, someone must decide which copies are most trustworthy. And someone must decide how best to translate the original languages into other languages. And none of these dicisions are made without consulting experts in various fields of study, including manuscript anlysis and meaning of words.

Or, any child can just pick of the Bible and read it for themselves, and either believe and do it, or not.

Science and scholarship is not wrong in itself, unless it promotes itself as necessary to read the Bible and live by the faith of Jesus Christ. All the work God used was just so no reader needs to be a scholar, but just normal understanding of words in our own language.

Mar 10:14But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

If such scholarship were necessary, then Jesus would have said to let the little children scholars and children of scholars come to Him.

Demanding manuscript science and linguistic scholarship, in order to read and know the truth of the Bible, is displeasing to the Lord, not just for the children's sake, but also for us dumb hicks.

So, is it wise to take all those people's decisions at face value and not look at the evidence yourself?

I take the Bible at face value. I give honor to whom honor due, whom God has used to preserve all His original words perfectly intact, and to translate them into my own language. In that way by the power of God, I have been able to pick up the Bible book from a store, off the living room table, from my own pocket, and now on my own phone, and read it anytime I wish.

Gideons even used to have them in most all hotel rooms.

At a minimum, it would be wise to consult a variety of translations instead of just one to get a better understanding of the original intent of passages, wouldn't you think?

It would be wise to choose one translation as authoritative for oneself, rather than skip around looking for something we want to believe in. However, any translation can be read by any child, and know for a certain that Jesus is the Christ of God, that died for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the 3rd day.

Translations certainly differ to whatever degree, but all the words of Scripture are on earth as originally inspired by Christ. And any Bible has those words leading faithfully to Him and His truth, and be made free to do it.

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Gal 3:2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

That includes by works of science and scholarship...

This is one of my all-time favorite passages. When I was legalistic, it helped me beat people with the Bible. Now that I am free, it helps me convince people they need to seek God's mercy.

So, now you're free from fearing the Lord and keeping His commandments? Or just free from your works being judged like all men?

Perhaps this is why some get into all that science and scholarship, in order to free themselves from all that childlike reading of Bible 'legalism'. Dumb childishness no doubt.

Jhn 7:15And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings JLB,

I would like to add that using lexicons and the Strongs Concordance is permitted, especially when we get into defining and understanding biblical words and terms. That being said, we will strive to allow the biblical definition to take precedence.

There are many different Bible versions, and many translate the various Hebrew and Greek words differently. For example I read from an Interlinear RV/KJV and the RV often gives a different translation, hopefully a more accurate rendition. I also read from a new translation of Isaiah and the author often gives textual comments in the margin as to why he chose a particular word. My reading usually accepts what these scholars give as they are much more acquainted and qualified with the original languages, but a few reliable reference books can help our understanding of a particular verse or word.

Kind regards
Trevor.