The use of Lexicons and Strongs Concordance.

[RBDERRICK]

"More scholarly" is correct.

Congratulations.

1Co 1:21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

2 Timothy{6:20} O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.

Saul was a very great scholar of many books:

Phl 3:8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Paul the apostle first spent several years in further Arabia studying only one Book, to learn how all the great scholars got it all so wrong. Such as counting the faith of Jesus Christ to be the Son of God, to be blasphemy.

2Ti 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

That's studying the Bible to be approved of God, and other books to be approved of men.

Jhn 7:15And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

My main resource is God Himself. He guides my understanding.

Not without having the rare faith of Jesus Christ, who's faith and doctrine is discounted as 'not ours'.

Which does not include me. His faith to sin not is now my faith given by Him, through repentance of my own sins and trespasses for His sake.

He gives me joy when I get things right and leaves me unsettled when I don't.

If you only mean in matters of doctrine, then any time with the Bible far outweighs much time with other books.

But, if you mean doing right or wrong and good or bad, then He does give great joy to His sons doing His righteousness, and leaves alone all that disobey Him.

John{8:29} And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Congratulations.

1Co 1:21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

So we agree that it pleases God to save those who believe? If a peson does not believe the gospel message that Jesus died for his sins, do you think God will save them?

2 Timothy{6:20} O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.

It is a circular argument to say that God requires faith before He saves a person but then insist He saves a person by giving Him the gift of faith. This is the kind of thing Paul is talking about.

Saul was a very great scholar of many books:

They didn't have books back then.

Phl 3:8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Are you in a cult? Maybe you could clear it up by telling us where this doctrine comes from.

Paul the apostle first spent several years in further Arabia studying only one Book, to learn how all the great scholars got it all so wrong. Such as counting the faith of Jesus Christ to be the Son of God, to be blasphemy.

That Galatians passage mentions no books. It only mentions Paul getting alone with God learning the truth directly from Him. In this you greatly err.

2Ti 2:15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

That's studying the Bible to be approved of God, and other books to be approved of men.

You do know that they did not have Bibles back then, right? This is what's know as projection. You're projecting onto them the circumstances of today. "Word of truth" is not a eupemism for "the Bible". It's broader than that. And many people falsely project the view that the words that come out of God's mouth means the Bible. They often miss the fact that God speaks to us from the depths of our hearts and calls on us to be dilligent (not "study" as falsely translated in the KJV) to show ourselves approved of Him by walking as He leads.

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Ti 2:15)​

This is the only way to not be ashamed.

Jhn 7:15And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

Not without having the rare faith of Jesus Christ, who's faith and doctrine is discounted as 'not ours'.

Which does not include me. His faith to sin not is now my faith given by Him, through repentance of my own sins and trespasses for His sake.

So His faith is now your faith, and you got it by excercising your own will to repent of your sins, a sacrifice of your own for His sake? That's a twist I didn't see coming.

If you only mean in matters of doctrine, then any time with the Bible far outweighs much time with other books.

It's not about books. It's about having an intimate personal relationship with the One in Whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

But, if you mean doing right or wrong and good or bad, then He does give great joy to His sons doing His righteousness, and leaves alone all that disobey Him.

John{8:29} And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

I know how this is fulfilled in us (see Ephesians 4:24). But I do not think we have agreement on that topic.

 

[RBDERRICK]

So we agree that it pleases God to save those who believe? If a peson does not believe the gospel message that Jesus died for his sins, do you think God will save them?

I don't know who would think it.

It is a circular argument to say that God requires faith before He saves a person but then insist He saves a person by giving Him the gift of faith.

Whoever makes the argument, is certainly putting the cart before and after the horse.

They didn't have books back then.

Tell that the writer of Genesis back then.

Gen 5:1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

The Bible we have of the prophets and apostles, is the Book.

Are you in a cult?

Getting personal is the ending of a failed argument.

2. Focus on the issue being discussed. Do not direct your comments toward the member and make the discussion personal if you disagree with what's been said.

A cult to some, is anyone not agreeing with them.

Maybe you could clear it up by telling us where this doctrine comes from.

Quoted verses of Scripture comes from the Bible, or the Book.

You do know that they did not have Bibles back then, right?

Rom 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

They didn't have the NT Scriptures of God, until our risen Lord gave them to His chosen holy men to write.

"Word of truth" is not a eupemism for "the Bible". It's broader than that. And many people falsely project the view that the words that come out of God's mouth means the Bible.

1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

We know if we speak as the oracles of God, by whether our oracles agree with His oracles, that are already written by His prophets and apostles.

Sola Scriptura.

They often miss the fact that God speaks to us from the depths of our hearts

Very deep, I'm sure.

Rev 2:24But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, that they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

1Co 2:10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

We know if it is the true God, or the god of this world, speaking deep things into our hearts, by whether those things are confirmed as true by the things already written in Scripture of truth.

and calls on us to be dilligent (not "study" as falsely translated in the KJV) to show ourselves approved of Him by walking as He leads.

Due diligence in Christ is doing His word, which we know is His will, if our deeds are His, and not disobeyingHis word.

Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2 Ti 2:15)​

Diligence without study of the word, may be diligent but not true. So with being sincere can be sincerely wrong.

This is the only way to not be ashamed.

Beleiving and obeying the word of the Lord, is the only way not to be ashamed at His appearing.

So His faith is now your faith, and you got it by excercising your own will to repent of your sins, a sacrifice of your own for His sake? That's a twist I didn't see coming.

Many twist teaching of Scripture, by the practice of twisting Scripture itself.

It's also a favorite tool of failed debaters, to changing a teaching to oppose itself.

5. Assume that other members have done their best to understand the argument(s) being presented. If you think a member has not understood what they are responding to, or if you are unsure what another member means by what they have posted, ask questions for clarification.

The slippery slope of the end is sliding downhill fast.

Acts{11:17} Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as [he did] unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? {11:18} When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

It's not about books. It's about having an intimate personal relationship with the One in Whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Not without repenting of our sins and trespasses by the will of God, to recieve the saving faith of His Son Jesus Christ.

Which faith is indeed rare in the world, even among some naming His name.

I know how this is fulfilled in us (see Ephesians 4:24). But I do not think we have agreement on that topic.

Not without the faith of Jesus in us, to keep us keeping His commandments. I have no agreement in being justified by Jesus Christ, with anyone discounting the faith of Jesus Christ, as being too rare to be necessary for His justification.

I can argue Bible doctrine and prophecy with them, which can be done just by reading the Book. But I have no argument about being justified by Him, without His faith. I just reject and rebuke it by Scripture:

Gal 2:16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Rev 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

It's not about books. It's about having an intimate personal relationship with the One in Whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Not without repenting of our sins and trespasses by the will of God, to recieve the saving faith of His Son Jesus Christ.

You do know the difference between "faith of Jesus" and "faith in Jesus", right? People are saved by God after they place their trust in Christ, not after they receive the faith of Christ. And nobody has the faith of Christ. If they did, we would see withered limbs restored, people raised from the dead, winds and raging seas calmed, blind people seeing, lame people walking, water turned into wine, etc... Jesus did all these things because His faith in the Father led Him to do what He was shown to do. And He could rightly claim that He always did those things that pleased the Father.

But we don't see people walking as Jesus walked. Yet we do see people claiming to have the faith of Christ. But they do not demonstrate by their actions that their claim is true. They do not walk on water, raise people from the dead, or give sight to the blind. And they do not always do those things which please the Father.

So this raises the question... Have they ever recognized that they fall short of the glory of God, that they are worthy of eternal damnation, that Jesus offers them forgiveness, and that placing their trust in Him is the means to Him forgiving their sins and giving them eternal life?

Gal 2:16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Most translators disagree with the KJV translation of this verse. They choose "faith in Christ" instead of "the faith of Christ" in the two places I highlighted. Here are four examples...

knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified. (Ga 2:16 NKJV)​

​

nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. (Ga 2:16 NASB)​

​

know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. (Ga 2:16 NIV)​

​

know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified. (Ga 2:16 HCSB)​

I can surmise the reason. It is probably to direct the reader's attention to the need for them to place their trust in Christ instead of working hard to obey His laws. And this verse certainly does not talk about receiving the faith of Christ (which would be passive voice), it is about placing one's trust in Christ (which is active voice).

Do you reject the idea that a person must place his trust in Christ in order for God to save them?

 

[RBDERRICK]

You do know the difference between "faith of Jesus" and "faith in Jesus", right?

No Bible one. No one has faith in Jesus without His faith given by repentance.

Faith in God without having His Son's faith, is the same faith of devils, that believe in God, but do not obey Him.

Jas 2:19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

People are saved by God after they place their trust in Christ,

Trusting in Jesus to deliver us from sins and forgive all our past sins, is given only by repentance for His sake.

Putting trust in Jesus not judge and condemn one's own unrepented bad deeds, is trusting in a lie of another Christ about Jesus Christ.

And nobody has the faith of Christ.

Matth 12:37For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Luk 6:45A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Many have the faith of another Christ, only a few have the faith of Jesus Christ. Many are called unto repentance from sinning, but few repent and chosen unto salvation from sinning.

Rev 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Only those that repent and have His faith, can keep it.

If they did, we would see withered limbs restored, people raised from the dead, winds and raging seas calmed, blind people seeing, lame people walking, water turned into wine, etc...

The faith of Jesus is first to do His righteousness as He did by His faith on earth:

Mat 6:33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous

Psa 106:3Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

Rom 10:10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This is the righteous faith Jesus Christ, that is given to all them that repent of sinning for His sake, to the Jew first and also the Gentile.

Rom 1:17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Only with the faith of Jesus dwelling in the heart, can any man live righteously as He by His faith.

And He could rightly claim that He always did those things that pleased the Father.

Which He did by His faith on earth, and every member of His own body does likewise by His faith from the heart.

But we don't see people walking as Jesus walked.

Why? Because they have not the faith of Jesus given in the heart. Why? Because they repent not at all, or not of all their dark deeds for His sake.

Ezek 18:31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Jerem 3:10And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

If we do as the Lord commands, and repent for all transgression for His dear Son's sake, then we shall be given the NT promise of Jesus' faith, to likewise always do those things that please the Father and the Son.

Yet we do see people claiming to have the faith of Christ. But they do not demonstrate by their actions that their claim is true.

1Jo 2:3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Fortunately some do believe the good report, and do keep His commandments and walk as He walked.

1Th 4:1Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.

Some do wholly repent according to the command, and so do recieve the promise of His gospel, to have and keep His commandments and faith blameless.

1 Thess{5:22} Abstain from all appearance of evil. {5:23} And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. {5:24} Faithful [is] he that calleth you, who also will do it.

And they do not always do those things which please the Father.

Because they do not repent of all their transgressions, but only in part. And so, they are of the double heart of Romans 7 and 1 John 1: with the mind they desire to walk in the light as He is in the light, but still walk in darkness.

Why? Because sinful man's own faith alone is not righteous and powerful, to walk in His light with Him at all times.

Mar 8:34And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Taking up our cross and losing our life for Jesus' sake, is repenting of our own will and life by our own faith, that says will certainly shall continue in sin, and not walk as He walked.

If we will repent to recieve Jesus' own will, faith, and life, then we too can walk in His likeness on earth, and be resurrected in His likeness forever.

So this raises the question... Have they ever recognized that they fall short of the glory of God, that they are worthy of eternal damnation, that Jesus offers them forgiveness, and that placing their trust in Him is the means to Him forgiving their sins and giving them eternal life?

Many have. Unfortunately man also substitutes a gospel of forgiveness by faith alone, with either partial or no repetance following.

The gospel of Jesus Christ and His resurrection from the dead, is whole repentance of His enemies unto salvation from all sins and trespasses.

2 Cor 7:10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Acts{3:19} Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; {3:20} And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Mat 1:21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

The sinners gospel of salvation unto partial or no repentance, is not the pure religion of Jesus Christ keeping ourselves from any spot and darkness of the world.

What's the difference? Havng one's own sinful faith, or having Jesus' righteous faith. How? By partial or no repentance from sinning, or whole repentance from all sinning.

Do you reject the idea that a person must place his trust in Christ in order for God to save them?

No, I only reject the idea of someone placing their trust in Christ by their own faith alone, for God to save them in their continued sinning, rather than from their sinning.

Do you reject the idea that a person must repent from all sins and trespassess, in order for Jesus to save from sinning?

Or, do you reject the idea of a person being saved from sinning, along with not walking as He walked?