The Way. Scripture defines scripture.

[follower]

I believe he fulfilled it in the sense that he lived it, and taught it, not in the sense that he made void the law.

I think you, or another, posted recently that the messenger (chosen by God) Paul
lived the law (Torah) and taught Torah.
Yet just know I realized this is truth, yet Paul the Apostle did not fulfill Torah. He could not.

 

[follower]

Delightedly, we (in Christ) have the thoughts of Jesus ! (the mind of Christ)

Torah is a light for our lives. But it is a burden for those in darkness.

 

[follower]

1 John 2
28 Now, little children (believers, dear ones), remain in Him [with unwavering faith],

so that when He appears [at His return],

we may have [perfect] confidence and not be ashamed and shrink away from Him at His coming. 29

If you know that He is absolutely righteous,

you know [for certain] that everyone who practices righteousness [doing what is right and conforming to God’s will] has been born of Him.

 

[Humblepie]

What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19

Galatians 3:21
21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.


What is the promises of God he is referring to?

Here is one.
It is the Seed.
V:19
Seed to whom the promise referred.


So the law isn't opposed to the Seed. (Christ Jesus).

What made Abraham Righteous?
Wasn't it his faith that made him righteous?

It's always been about faith.

It still is.

In Galatians Paul is telling the congregation that they have turned to a different gospel than what he proclaimed.


As I mentioned before this false doctrine is what Paul is confronting in Galatians. The false doctrine which is the yoke mentioned more than once in the NT.

Paul was condemning the doctrine that you must follow the law first to be saved.

Act 15 is the direct result of what Happened in Galatia.

Acts 15:5
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

Paul taught you are saved by grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast.


Acts 15:20-21


20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”


They decided that those entering the faith should first.

1. abstain from food
polluted by idols

2. Abstain from sexual
immorality

3. from the meat of
strangled animals
and from blood.

And then........

4. For the law of Moses
has been preached in
every city from the
earliest times and is
read in the
synagogues on every
Sabbath.”

Learn the law as they mature.

Do you sacrifice animals for your sins?

Does the law allow me to make a sin sacrifice without a temple?
Does the law allow me to make a sacrifice without a priest?

Where am I commanded to make my sacrifice?

(You might have to look in the OT to find your answer)

Do you believe Jesus accomplished His mission to fulfill the Law.

He did fulfill it by fully living it, and teaching it, but he didn't make it void
When he fully lived it.

He also fulfilled righteousness.

Matthew 3:15 “But Jesus answered and said to him permit it to be so now for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.”

So, if Matthew 5:17 means that Yeshua fulfilled the whole law of God so that we do not have to, does that mean that Jesus also fulfilled practicing all righteousness so that we no longer have to practice righteousness?

 

[JLB]

So the law isn't opposed to the Seed. (Christ Jesus).

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18


Do you sacrifice animals for your sins?

 

[Humblepie]

Do you sacrifice animals for your sins?

I already addressed this.

Where am I commanded to make my sacrifice?

Does the law allow me to make a sin sacrifice without a temple?
Does the law allow me to make a sacrifice without a priest?

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

Galatians 5:19-23
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.


If you live in the spirit your not under the (law of sin and death) because you produce good fruit and the law is written on your heart. His spirit gives us the ability to follow his will. When we fail we have his grace.

(love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.)

When you enter the faith, you are no longer under the law of sin and death.

Grace through faith is the only way to Christ.

Doing his Father's will and not sinning is what keeps you in his Grace.

What is sin?

1 John 3:4-6

4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Sin is the breaking of The law period.

 

[JLB]

I already addressed this.

What was your answer?

 

[JLB]

Galatians 5:19-23
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Yes agreed these are describing sin.

A violation of His commandments.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


The law of Christ.

Not the law of Moses.





JLB

 

[JLB]

If you live in the spirit your not under the (law of sin and death)

The law of Moses is what is contextually being referenced in Galatians.


Paul is dealing with the Galatians who were taught another Gospel which was promoted by believing Pharisees who taught them they must keep the law of Moses which includes physical circumcision, to be saved.


For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. Galatians 5:6




JLB

 

[Humblepie]

THE reason we don’t do animal sacrifices today is not because they’ve been abolished. The answer is simply this: We are not able to keep these aspects of the Torah the way God said to keep them right now.

Deuteronomy 12:13-14
Take care that you do not offer your burnt offerings at any place that you see, but at the place that the Lord will choose in one of your tribes, there you shall offer your burnt offerings, and there you shall do all that I am commanding you.

 

[Humblepie]

Paul is dealing with the Galatians who were taught another Gospel which was promoted by believing Pharisees who taught them they must keep the law of Moses which includes physical circumcision, to be saved.

Exactly what I already stated.

You must have missed the part when they concluded that new believers will learn the law on the Sabbath So I'll post it again.


Acts 15:20-21
20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”


They decided that those entering the faith should first.

1. abstain from food
polluted by idols

2. Abstain from sexual
immorality

3. from the meat of
strangled animals
and from blood.

And then........

4. For the law of Moses
has been preached in
every city from the
earliest times and is
read in the
synagogues on every
Sabbath.”

Learn the law as they mature.

 

[Humblepie]

The law of Christ.

Not the law of Moses.

You can twist scripture to back your belief if you feel you need to, but your interpretation isn't biblical.


If the law of christ you refer to is the two greatest commands, loving God and loving others, the whole law is based on those two commands.

Those two commands don't even make into the well known 10 commandments.

Deut 6:5-6
5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:


Lev 19:18
18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

Just because you're not justified by the law doesn't mean it isn't relevant.

 

[follower]

Learn the law as they mature.

If a child is taught the right way to live, he will not depart from it when he is older.

If a child OR an adult is taught to break the law , to be lawless, the one who taught them that will suffer more severely .

 

[Humblepie]

What was your answer?


.

Post 24 and post 26. And 30.
Don't you read the response or are you more wrapped up in expressing your own belief and wouldn't even entertain that it could be wrong.
If it is the second of the two I think our debate is finished.

 

[JLB]

They decided that those entering the faith should first.

1. abstain from food
polluted by idols

2. Abstain from sexual
immorality

3. from the meat of
strangled animals
and from blood.

And then........

4. For the law of Moses
has been preached in
every city from the
earliest times and is
read in the
synagogues on every
Sabbath.”

Yes, unbelieving Jews read the law of Moses in a synagogue on the Sabbath, yet they still continue to reject Jesus Christ as LORD and Messiah.

Now for the context --

22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren.
23 They wrote this letter by them:
The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Acts 15:22-29

 

[Humblepie]

Yes, unbelieving Jews read the law of Moses in a synagogue on the Sabbath, yet they still continue to reject Jesus Christ as LORD and Messiah.

Now for the context --

22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren.
23 They wrote this letter by them:
The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,
To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Acts 15:22-29

Once again, you post ((some)) scripture out of context that fits your belief and pass it off as doctrine skipping over the scripture that proves your doctrine to be false.

Yes, unbelieving Jews read the law of Moses in a synagogue on the Sabbath, yet they still continue to reject Jesus Christ as LORD and Messiah.

You are clearly adding to scripture here when the text claimed no such thing. It actually says Gentiles, Not jews as you claim.

Acts 15:10
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

Why did you remove verse 21?

I didn't fit your ideology?

Verse 21 is a direct result of the false doctrine stating you must first be circumcised to enter the faith.
We don't believe that today. And That's not what any apostle taught.


What is the yoke in your belief?
1. Is it the law?

2. Or is it that you must
obey the law first in
order to be saved

I believe the yoke is #2.


Remember these are new converts from pagan religions in Galatia and elsewhere, and they didn't know the way of God.


The apostles taught grace through faith is your salvation, and as a child in the faith they would learn the way of God on the Sabbath as it is taught in the synagogue on every Sabbath.

So your telling me that all you need to do to continue in your Christian faith is these four things?

that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.

So you never need to grow in your walk? You never had to learn the way of God?

 

[JLB]

Once again, you post ((some)) scripture out of context that fits your belief and pass it off as doctrine skipping over the scripture that proves your doctrine to be false.






You are clearly adding to scripture here when the text claimed no such thing. It actually says Gentiles, Not jews as you claim.

Acts 15:10
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?

Why did you remove verse 21?

I didn't fit your ideology?

Verse 21 is a direct result of the false doctrine stating you must first be circumcised to enter the faith.
We don't believe that today. And That's not what any apostle taught.


What is the yoke in your belief?
1. Is it the law?

2. Or is it that you must
obey the law first in
order to be saved

I believe the yoke is #2.


Remember these are new converts from pagan religions in Galatia and elsewhere, and they didn't know the way of God.


The apostles taught grace through faith is your salvation, and as a child in the faith they would learn the way of God on the Sabbath as it is taught in the synagogue on every Sabbath.

So your telling me that all you need to do to continue in your Christian faith is these four things?

that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.

So you never need to grow in your walk? You never had to learn the way of God?

I removed nothing. I should from the verses you omitted that the Apostles gave no such command to any disciples to become circumcised or keep the law of Moses.



Paul plainly states the law of Moses was abolished, a scriptural truth that you fail to recognize.


For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
Ephesians 2:14-15

• having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances

The law of Moses was nailed to the cross.

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:14


Hey, if you want to sacrifice animals for your sins as the law of Moses requires, GO FOR IT!


Jesus Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant.

We are under His law, not the law of Moses.




JLB

 

[Tenchi]

By studying the OT you bring understanding to what the NT Actually teaches as truth.

Only to a point. The OT relationship of the Israelites to God is not like the New Covenant relationship the born-again believer enjoys with their Heavenly Father. Though there are some parallels between the OT Israelites and the Christian, and though the God of the OT is the same God of the NT, the born-again "new creature in Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:17) lives in a "new and living way" (Hebrews 9-10:22) utterly unknown to the OT Israelites.

2 Peter 3:16-17
16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.

The lawless are those that don't obey the law. At least that what my Bible claims is truth.



1 John 3:4
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

Throughout the whole of 2 Peter 2, Peter excoriated the false teacher/prophet and it is this person he has in view when he wrote of the "error of the lawless." He refers to them in the early part of chapter 3 as "scoffers [who} will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires." These "lawless scoffers," these false prophets who "eat their own vomit" spiritually, are who Peter has in view in 2 Peter 3:17. We don't have to resort to another book entirely to understand this.

Also, what law did Peter have in mind when he wrote of the "error of the lawless"? The OT Mosaic law including the laws of ceremony and separation given exclusively to Israel? No. 2 Peter 2 describes only a moral and spiritual lawlessness, not a rebellion against the Mosaic Laws of ceremony and separation.

John 14:16
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
The way.

Deut 11:26
26 See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse— 27 the blessing if you obey the commands of the Lord your God that I am giving you today; 28 the curse if you disobey the commands of the Lord your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known.

The Truth.

Psalms 119:142
142. Your righteousness is everlasting
and your Law is true.

The Life.

Deut 32:46-47

46 he said to them, “Take to heart all the words I have solemnly declared to you this day, so that you may command your children to obey carefully all the words of this law. 47 They are not just idle words for you—they are your life.

??? Don't you see that what you've posted here denies what Jesus said in John 14:6? Rather than take Jesus at his word, considering his remarks in their immediate context (in which they are best understood) you've gone back to the OT - I suppose in demonstration of your initial idea about the OT and NT - and have confused the law-based way of the OT Isrealites with the new and living Way of the born-again Christian. These are two entirely different things, the latter replacing the former.

The same is the case with what you've done in conflating the Person who is The Truth, with the OT Mosaic Law that merely contains, or expresses, what is true. Here, too, there is an enormous difference between Jesus, the Truth itself, and the OT Mosaic Law that merely expresses what is true. This illustrates what I was saying about how the OT is helpful only to a point in understanding the "new and living" Way, Truth and Life in which the born-again person "lives and moves and has their being" (2 Corinthians 5:17; Colossians 1:15-20; 2:6-10; Ephesians 1:1-13).

 

[follower]

Mixed up, mixed up, all there is is mixed up.

 

[Josef]

Hey All,
The Law is good. We can all agree.
The Law cannot be kept.
That is also true.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

So anyone who says they can keep it 100% of the time, is lying or ignorant of the Law.
Why would God give us rules that we cannot keep, then judge us for not keeping them?

We are defeated before we are judged.

But if we love, we keep the Law automatically.
Love God, love yourself, love others. Doing this automatically keeps the Law.

Why did it take thousands of years, and God in human form, for us to understand this?

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz