The Way. Scripture defines scripture.

[follower]

The Law cannot be kept.
That is also true.

Not quite.
Remember God's Testimony in the NT,
and the messenger Paul, chosen by God.
He stated that he kept the TORAH (the Law), and under Torah was blameless.
God did not contradict that, ever.
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When people come to the usa, and want to become citizens (or even visitors?) ,
they must keep the law, including traffic laws.
And they do.

Otherwise, they get tickets, fineds, warnings, and sometimes die.

 

[follower]

But if we love, we keep the Law automatically.
Love God, love yourself, love others. Doing this automatically keeps the Law.

So, keeping the law is possible.

 

[Humblepie]

Is it the common belief that the law is done away with for everyone or just believers?

Or a better way to say it without using the word abolish or saying done away with, is it applicable today for some or for none.
Is anyone condemned by the law of God that dies today?

 

[follower]

Is it the common belief that the law is done away with for everyone or just believers?

Or a better way to say it without using the word abolish or saying done away with, is it applicable today for some or for none.
Is anyone condemned by the law of God that dies today?

Common belief ? Among 7 billion people on earth (or 8 or 9?)....

How many people believe something make it common ?

One million ? Then there may be over a million "common beliefs" ?

 

[Humblepie]

I want to be Chrystal clear on this point.

The law will never justify anyone and make them righteous. Only grace through faith in our Savior makes us righteous.

God found Abraham Righteous because of his faith before he was circumcised for his faith in a promise.

Today we have the promise of salvation through Christ Jesus our lord and if we have faith and believe that then our faith is accounted for righteousness.

Just as Abraham had faith first then obedience
We also need faith first then obedience, not for salvation, but because we are saved.

Being covered by grace does not mean we can sin willfully time and time again, that would be disobedience.

If you try to achieve your salvation from works of the law and you fail and sin, you earn the wage of your works which is death and that's God's obligation to fulfill, and by doing so you miss the free gift of salvation.

If you have faith you are not under the law of sin and death because grace covers you.

Romans 3:4-5
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Romans 2:20
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.


It is only through the law that we are conscious of our sin, and the law points directly to our Savior.

Romans 2:30-31

30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

The law is a good thing, it points to the reason why we need a Messiah.

 

[Humblepie]

Common belief ? Among 7 billion people on earth (or 8 or 9?)....

Common belief amongst believers?

Amongst Baptist, evangelicals, Lutheran, Episcopalian, catholics, etc.?

Those of the Christian faith?

 

[follower]

Common belief

Perhaps common in some Christian and non-Christian groups. Not in other groups.

 

[Josef]

Not quite.
Remember God's Testimony in the NT,
and the messenger Paul, chosen by God.
He stated that he kept the TORAH (the Law), and under Torah was blameless.
God did not contradict that, ever.
--------------------------------------

When people come to the usa, and want to become citizens (or even visitors?) ,
they must keep the law, including traffic laws.
And they do.

Otherwise, they get tickets, fineds, warnings, and sometimes die.

Hey All,
We can include Enoch and Elijah as well. We cannot include Jesus as He has no sin nature as we do. So, if you want to consider Paul, you can. That is three people.

But out of respect to Paul, and what he wrote about himself, I did not.

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

(Just so you know, I am right there standing next to him.)

So if you could provide a scripture reference we would have our contradiction. Because that is distinctly different than what what Paul wrote about himself.

I need God's grace.
It is the only way I can get into heaven.
Saying the sinner's prayer did not stop me from sinning.
But I believe through faith that Jesus meant what He said.
Because that is the only way I will make it to heaven.
I have been a believer for 62 years, and have not been able to stop sinning completely.
I like to think I sin less.
But part of that is just being older and not being able to do what I used to.
What really stops me, when it can, is my love for Jesus.
That doesn't always work because I don't always control the flesh.
It wins sometimes.
When it does, and I come to my senses, I ask forgiveness, ask God to show me a way to fix it, get back up, and keep walking.
I wish I had it easy like some people here that never sin.
I envy those guys. (Which is probably a sin unto itself.)
I think, "Why can't I have the easy life?"
But for me, life is a constant battle
spirit vs. flesh.
And God bless you if you do have the easy life.
I am used to doing it the hard way.
The journey won't matter once I am there.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Josef]

Perhaps common in some Christian and non-Christian groups. Not in other groups.

Hey All,
What would be a common belief between Christian and non-Christian groups. Who Jesus is, is the reason for the separation.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[follower]

We can include Enoch and Elijah as well. We cannot include Jesus as He has no sin nature as we do. So, if you want to consider Paul, you can. That is three people.

There's more if you care to find them.
>>

Luke 1:5-7

King James Version

​

5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

[follower]

So, if you want to consider Paul

God's Word Includes: >>

Philippians 3:4-7

King James Version

​

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

 

[follower]

God's Word Includes: >>

"Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.

11 Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.

12 Wherefore it shall come to pass, if ye hearken to these judgments, and keep, and do them, that the Lord thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which he sware unto thy fathers:

13 And he will love thee, and bless thee, and multiply thee: he will also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

14 Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or female barren among you, or among your cattle.

15 And the Lord will take away from thee all sickness, and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee; but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.

16 And thou shalt consume all the people which the Lord thy God shall deliver thee; thine eye shall have no pity upon them: neither shalt thou serve their gods; for that will be a snare unto thee.

17 If thou shalt say in thine heart, These nations are more than I; how can I dispossess them?

18 Thou shalt not be afraid of them: but shalt well remember what the Lord thy God did unto Pharaoh, and unto all Egypt;

19 The great temptations which thine eyes saw, and the signs, and the wonders, and the mighty hand, and the stretched out arm, whereby the Lord thy God brought thee out: so shall the Lord thy God do unto all the people of whom thou art afraid.

20 Moreover the Lord thy God will send the hornet among them, until they that are left, and hide themselves from thee, be destroyed.

21 Thou shalt not be affrighted at them: for the Lord thy God is among you, a mighty God and terrible.

22 And the Lord thy God will put out those nations before thee by little and little: thou mayest not consume them at once, lest the beasts of the field increase upon thee.

23 But the Lord thy God shall deliver them unto thee, and shall destroy them with a mighty destruction, until they be destroyed.

24 And he shall deliver their kings into thine hand, and thou shalt destroy their name from under heaven: there shall no man be able to stand before thee, until thou have destroyed them.

25 The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therin: for it is an abomination to the Lord thy God.

26 Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing."

 

[follower]

God's Word Includes: >>

Appointed men are to justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.
At the appointed, appropriate times, as written.....

Deuteronomy 25:1-3

King James Version

​

25 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.
2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten, that the judge shall cause him to lie down, and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.
3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.
Read full chapter

 

[follower]

God Spoke in His Word of those who were pleasing to Him in faithfulness....

2 Samuel 22:20-22

King James Version

​

20 He brought me forth also into a large place: he delivered me, because he delighted in me.
21 The Lord rewarded me according to my righteousness: according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.
22 For I have kept the ways of the Lord, and have not wickedly departed from my God.

 

[follower]

Further Instructions which include what the righteous do if they sin and sickness is put upon them.

1 Kings 8:31-39

King James Version

​

31 If any man trespass against his neighbour, and an oath be laid upon him to cause him to swear, and the oath come before thine altar in this house:
32 Then hear thou in heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, condemning the wicked, to bring his way upon his head; and justifying the righteous, to give him according to his righteousness.
33 When thy people Israel be smitten down before the enemy, because they have sinned against thee, and shall turn again to thee, and confess thy name, and pray, and make supplication unto thee in this house:

Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy people Israel, and bring them again unto the land which thou gavest unto their fathers.

When heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, because they have sinned against thee; if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name, and turn from their sin, when thou afflictest them:

Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy servants, and of thy people Israel, that thou teach them the good way wherein they should walk, and give rain upon thy land, which thou hast given to thy people for an inheritance.

If there be in the land famine, if there be pestilence, blasting, mildew, locust, or if there be caterpiller; if their enemy besiege them in the land of their cities; whatsoever plague, whatsoever sickness there be;

What prayer and supplication soever be made by any man, or by all thy people Israel,

which shall know every man the plague of his own heart, and spread forth his hands toward this house:

39 Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men;)

 

[Tenchi]

God found Abraham Righteous because of his faith before he was circumcised for his faith in a promise.

In those situations where Abraham acted in faith toward God, his choice to do so was "counted for righteousness." Abraham, however, was never entirely justified before God, as the born-again believer is who is "in Christ," and clothed in his perfect righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Corinthians 1:30; Galatians 3:27). Abraham was not particularly righteous a number of times, showing cowardice, lying about his wife and running ahead of God and impregnating a handmaiden. His "faith counted for righteousness" in other instances did not extend to these unrighteous moments, somehow nullifying them.

Today we have the promise of salvation through Christ Jesus our lord and if we have faith and believe that then our faith is accounted for righteousness.

If we have faith in Christ. It is not our faith itself that is the important thing but the object of our faith, Jesus Christ our Savior and Lord.

Just as Abraham had faith first then obedience
We also need faith first then obedience, not for salvation, but because we are saved.

Abraham's faith was expressed or manifested in corresponding obedience. He truly believed and so this was revealed naturally and inevitably in his conduct. Genuine, heart-level belief always is like this, reflecting itself in one's actions.

Being covered by grace does not mean we can sin willfully time and time again, that would be disobedience.

"Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound." (Romans 5:20) God's grace doesn't give us license to sin (Romans 6:1-2), but our sin cannot ever exceed the super-abundance of His grace. In other words, we can't sin ourselves out of God's grace; it's simply too big.

The law is a good thing, it points to the reason why we need a Messiah.

Indeed.

 

[Humblepie]

"Where sin abounded, grace did much more abound." (Romans 5:20) God's grace doesn't give us license to sin (Romans 6:1-2), but our sin cannot ever exceed the super-abundance of His grace.

Hebrew 10:26

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

 

[Josef]

God's Word Includes: >>

Philippians 3:4-7

King James Version

​

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

Hey All,
What you are quoting is Paul's qualifications as a keeper of the law. Paul is not saying what he did was enough to qualify him for salvation. Paul is saying as good as he was, it still wasn't the good enough. Nor did it qualify him after salvation. Grace through faith in Jesus is the only way. It is not by works before or after we believe. Our belief is always by grace through faith; and never anything else.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Tenchi]

Hebrew 10:26

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

So, then?

 

[Humblepie]

So, then?

Some may say these two verses contradict one another but they don't.


Everybody sins. If we are striving to not sin, and we fail his grace is boundless.

On the other hand for example, one watches porn goes to strip clubs, addicted to the flesh, when the spirit tells him it's wrong, and he believes what he is doing is wrong but continues in his sin, but professes to be in the faith, it is wilfully being disobedient. It is rebellious, and that is what Hebrews 10:26 is referring to in this example.