The week of the Passion

[Goinheix]

In few days we will conmemorate/celebrate a traditional Christian festivity. Is it according to the accounts in the Gospels? Probably not. If we read and study the accounts in the four Gospels, we will found many differences with the traditional celebration.

One of the differences is the week day of the crucifixion. By tradition it is repeated to happens in Friday; but such tradition did not started until 4 centuries after the Passion. What we discover reading and studying the Gospels is that Jesus was crucified on Thursday.

There is also controversy in reference to the date of the month (Nisan). Meanly there is two positions: 14th and 15th of Nisan, but both dates present serious problems never solved in the last 20 centuries.

I propose to go deep into determinig what the Gospels are telling us.

 

[Goinheix]

One thing we know for sure: Jesus did resurrect on Sunday.
There is a second thing I hope all we agree: Jesus resurected in First fruits Sunday

 

[Goinheix]

If Jesus resurrected on Sunday, we must be able of counting backward until the day of his crucifixion.

Unfortunally, christians present two different acount. The traditional acount is based on "the third day" counting friday as first and Sunday as tirth. The later acount is based on "three days and three nights" and take the count back to Thursday as the crucifixion day.

What if we take friday as crucifixion day? In that case, the "three days and three nights" can not be counted.
What if we take Thursday instead? In that case we have to understand that "the third day" commencing of Friday refers to the sepulture of Jesus in the first minutes of the day (after dark).

The Thursday present another problem. It happens that since sepulture to resurrección it was sabbath. Normally it is understood as Saturday, but sabbath include festrivity days in jew calendar. In tomes of Passover there is two dates wich are sabbath despite the week day: 15 and 21 Nisan. It is proposed that in the year of the crucifixion, the 15 (sabbath) was Friday, followed by a Saturday. We will see that such coincidence of a sabbath followed by a Saturday is described by Matthew in his Gospel.

 

[Goinheix]

Matthew 27
62The next day, the one after Preparation Day,
the day after preparation day is a festivity sabbath

Matthew 28
1After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week,
before the first day of the week is saturday

Matthew describes a sabbath followed by a saturday.

 

[Goinheix]

We can asume that Jesus did resurrect on Sunday, First Fruit Sunday, after being dead for three days and three night, being crucified on Thursday and buried the first minutes of Friday, resurrecting the third day, wich was the mentioned Sunday.

But we have one more detail to determine: the date. It is quite probable that Thursday is the correct day of the week; and now we need to figure out the date on the Jew Calendar. In order to do that we first point to Nisan 14th or 15th. That is for the next post.

 

[Goinheix]

Concerning the date of the crucifixion (that is in the Jew Calendar) schoolars have deep ptoblems. The Sinoptic Gospels (Mat, Mar, Luc) are clear that Nisan 14th Jesus gives instructions to Petar and John to preparae Passover dinner. Coming the night, Jesus did celebrates the passover dinner. That is already 15th Nisan. What the Sinoptics are saying is that the 14th, Jesus finished the day alive and free. The sinoptics are telling us that Jesus was not crucified the 14th.
in the other hand, John is telling us that Jesus was crucified on a preparation day. That is a day previous to a High Sabbath of Passover. It hapens that one of the High Sabbaths of Passover is Nisan 15th. Jonh is telling us that Jesus was not crucified on Nisan 15th.

Then we have the Gospels telling us that Jesus was not crucified the 14th, neither the 15th. But for some reason, schoolars insist to ignore the Gospels. Half of them insist on the 14th, and the other half insist on the 15th. But again: the Gospels are telling us that Jesus were not crucified the 14th neither the 15th.

When was the crucifixion according to the Gospels. John is saying that it was a preparation day for a High Sabbath of Passover. Passover has two days concidered High Sabbath: 15th and 21st. The preparation for a High Sabbath of Passover days are the 14th and the 20th. If we know thanks the Sinoptics that it was not the 14th; to wich preparation day of a high Sabbath of Passover was refering John?

 

[Sinthesis]

Matthew 27
62The next day, the one after Preparation Day,
the day after preparation day is a festivity sabbath

Matthew 28
1After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week,
before the first day of the week is saturday

Matthew describes a sabbath followed by a saturday.

'After the sabbath' can also mean 'after the week' in that the weekly sabbath day ends the week. The first day begins a new week.

 

[Goinheix]

'After the sabbath' can also mean 'after the week' in that the weekly sabbath day ends the week. The first day begins a new week.

The correct translation of Matthew 28:1 is
After the sabbaths, at dawn on the first day of the sabbaths,
Sabbath do mean either a sabbath day or a week. The first "sabbaths" refer to the two days with sabbath condition. The second "sabbaths" refers to the first day of the weeks, that is the Penthecost or Festivity of the Weeks. The first day of the festivity of the weeks is first fruit day. Remember that Christ is first fruit of the resurrection. Jesus resurrected the first day of the weeks, the day of the first fruits.

 

[Goinheix]

What we learn by studying the Gospels carefully is:
That Jesus resurrected on Sunday, First Fruit Sunday.
That Jesus was in the sepulcre from the first minutes of Friday until Sunday early morning (the third day)
That Jesus was crucified and died on Thursday, and buried in a hurry in the next few hours.
That Jesus were dead for three days and three nights.
That from the time he was buried iot were sabbath days.
That the first sabbath day was a High Sabbath of Passover, and the second sabbath was Saturday.
That the mentiones High Sabbath of Passover was Nisan 21st.

By studying carefully the Gospels we also know that the 14th of Nisan Jesus ended the day alive and free.
That entered th 15th night Jesus celebrated the Passover diner with the 12.
That Jesus was arrested the next morning (Nisan 15th).

What we are about to investigate in the Gospels is what hapenned between his arrest the 15th and his crucifixion the 20th.

 

[Goinheix]

If the Gospels are saying that Jesus was arrested the 15th morning and crucified the 20th morning; what the Gospels say it happend in those 5 days?
The common understanding is that Jesus was arrested, trialed and crucified in some 3 hours, all in the same morning.
But we have determined that Jesus was not crucified on the 15th because Jesus (according to John) was crucified on a preparation day; and the 15th is not a preparation day. In few words; John is telling us that Jesus was not crucified the same 15th in wich were arrested.
Those studying the Jew legan system, and also those studying the Roman legal system have many arguments to disbelieve that a man (Jesus) could be sentenced to dead and executed in merely few hours.
Even the common sense is telling us that it was not time for Jesus being brough before Anas, Caifas, Pilates, Herod and Pilates againin such short time.
Not only that, the Gospels describe very long trials, with the adition of extence fisical punishment on Jesus.
The Gospels also describe more than one sunrise, and describe how Jesus was at Pilates by noon, being crucified by 9am (next day).
And Juda has time enough to by a property, give back the money and kill himself, all of that in 3 hours?

All the above obligue us to read the Gospels again, more carefully and search for what happened on each of those 5 days, from the arrest on the 15th until the crucifixion on the 20th.

 

[Goinheix]

I noticed that this treath has more than a 100 views so far. My question is; do all of us agree on the next:

1 - Jesus ended the 14th Nisan alive and free. The synoptics tels us that on the 14th Jesus gives instructions to Peter and John to prepare the Passover dinner, wich they celebrated (eat) coming the night (allready 15th)
2 - Jesus was not crucified the 15th because John is telling us that Jesus was crucified on a preparation day for a High Sabbath of Passover; and the 15th is not a preparation day but a High Sabbath of passover.
3 - Passover has two High Sabbaths, the 15th and the 21st; being preparation days the 14th and the 20th, making only possible the 20th as crucifixion day.
4 - The Gospels include several internal evidence of a very long trial that fits better with a 5 days trials than a 3 hours trials.

If we are on solid ground so far; then we can proceed to reconstruc the events of the Pasion. Are we?
If we are, the challange will be to study the Gospels in orther to determine what did happens each of those five days.

 

[Sparkey]

One thing that I've learned to count on here is the cyclical opening of threads about holidays. Easter is one that may be examined on a yearly basis.
Here then are some of the thread opened in the past that may relate to this discussion:

2013:​

Good Friday

2012:​

He Rose On Sunday True or False

2011:​

Was Jesus Crucified on Friday?

In heading into Easter, I'm hoping to avoid the argument of those who want to reject the celebration of our Risen Lord either because of their calculation of 3 days or because of an aversion to making a secular mockery of His resurrection. Will we be able to rejoice in the remembrance that His is Risen!; He is Risen Indeed! without there being objection from within the Body of Christ?

Was the last supper a day earlier ?
Locked Thread: Celebrating Easter?
The Truth About Easter

2010:​

The Lie of Good Friday
Easter Its Pagan origins
Did Christ Rise On Saturday Or Sunday?

My best understanding from these?

HE IS RISEN!​

 

[Sinthesis]

I noticed that this treath has more than a 100 views so far. My question is; do all of us agree on the next:

1 - Jesus ended the 14th Nisan alive and free. The synoptics tels us that on the 14th Jesus gives instructions to Peter and John to prepare the Passover dinner, wich they celebrated (eat) coming the night (allready 15th)
2 - Jesus was not crucified the 15th because John is telling us that Jesus was crucified on a preparation day for a High Sabbath of Passover; and the 15th is not a preparation day but a High Sabbath of passover.
3 - Passover has two High Sabbaths, the 15th and the 21st; being preparation days the 14th and the 20th, making only possible the 20th as crucifixion day.
4 - The Gospels include several internal evidence of a very long trial that fits better with a 5 days trials than a 3 hours trials.

If we are on solid ground so far; then we can proceed to reconstruc the events of the Pasion. Are we?
If we are, the challange will be to study the Gospels in orther to determine what did happens each of those five days.

I don't agree with your points, but I'm interested in what you have to say because I've never heard of the 20th as crucifixion day before.

 

[Slider]

I've been in this discussion many times before. When considering ALL the events given in the Gospel, it points to a Wednesday crucifixion, not Thursday or Friday. It also points that he rose on Saturday slightly before the weekly sabbath ended. But I'll listen for now, and agree with you that he wasn't crucified on Friday.

 

[Goinheix]

I've been in this discussion many times before. When considering ALL the events given in the Gospel, it points to a Wednesday crucifixion, not Thursday or Friday. It also points that he rose on Saturday slightly before the weekly sabbath ended. But I'll listen for now, and agree with you that he wasn't crucified on Friday.

One thing we can take for sure and out of any doubt: Jesus did resurrect on Sunday, First Fruit Sunday; and by not way on Saturday.
A second thing we can have for sure: Jesus was not crucified on Wednesday.

Mark 16:9 is totally clear that Jesus did resurrect on Sunday, the first day of the week. And that is totally consistent with the other three Gospels. There is not a minimal reason why we should even concider Saturday as day of resurrection.
Also Wednesday is absolutely descarted since from crucifixion to resurrection it was a continuous sabbath condition.

I hope this is very clear and solid before we can do any progress.

 

[Goinheix]

One thing that I've learned to count on here is the cyclical opening of threads about holidays. Easter is one that may be examined on a yearly basis.
Here then are some of the thread opened in the past that may relate to this discussion:

It seems that this issue is of extreme importance for Christians.
And no wonder why it is so important for all Christians.

 

[Goinheix]

Matthew 26:17 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, "Where do you want us to make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"

Mark 14:12 On the first day of the Festival of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus' disciples asked him, "Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"

Luke 22:7 Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed.

The Passover lamb was sacrificed on the first day of the festival of unleavened bread: Nisan 14th.
The Nisan 14th Jesus was alive and free, all day long until the end of the day.
Jesus were not crucified the day the passover lamb was sacrified.
Jesus were not crucified Nisan 14th.

I hope all we understand and accept the Worf of God.

 

[Slider]

Jesus did not die on Thursday. He died on Wednesday. He did not resurrect on Sunday. He ressurected on Saturday. That is what the Bible says.

 

[Goinheix]

Jesus did not die on Thursday. He died on Wednesday. He did not resurrect on Sunday. He ressurected on Saturday. That is what the Bible says.

Can you provide the biblical support?
I will take all the necesary time to finish with the Wed-Sat hypotesis.
Showing the wrong of that hypotesis is not a lost of time.

 

[Slider]

Jesus did not die on Thursday. He died on Wednesday. He did not resurrect on Sunday. He ressurected on Saturday. That is what the Bible says.

Can you provide the biblical support?
I will take all the necesary time to finish with the Wed-Sat hypotesis.
Showing the wrong of that hypotesis is not a lost of time.

I absolutely can provide the Biblical support, and will if required.

You state you will take all the necessary time to refute the "hypotesis" [sic], but can you provide a flawless proof that he was crucified on Thursday and resurrected on Sunday?