The week of the Passion

[reba]

Every spring we get the same thing.... many folks all tied up in who is right about what day this or that happened ... It is about WHO arose and what would He think of the bickering?

 

[farouk]

Every spring we get the same thing.... many folks all tied up in who is right about what day this or that happened ... It is about WHO arose and what would He think of the bickering?

...according to working of His might power, when He raised Him from the dead, and set him at His own right hand in heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion and every name that is named... (Ephesians 1).

 

[Sparkey]

This view comes from the article How Do We Explain the Passover "Discrepancy"? by Tim Staples of Catholic Answers Magazine:

Just the Facts, Please

We know for certain that our Lord died on Friday (cf. Matt. 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, and John 19:31).
We know it occurred in the month of Nisan (April) because it was the time of Passover.

But the question remains: Why in the synoptic Gospels does Jesus celebrate the Passover on Thursday night (and, of course, given the fact that Passover fell on Friday in that year, this would be expected), but in the Gospel of John, Friday is "the day of preparation"? According to John, Passover fell on Saturday, which is why he refers to it as a "great Sabbath day" (cf. John 19:31). It was not only the Sabbath, but it was Passover as well. We still have to deal with this apparent contradiction.

According to The Navarre Study Bible, in Mark’s Gospel the Pharisees and Sadducees had a different way of celebrating feast days (51-52). The Pharisees were strict in their observance. If the fifteenth of Nisan fell on Friday, then that would be the day they celebrated the Passover. The Sadducees, on the other hand, were more liberal and had no problem with moving a feast day in certain situations. This practice is analogous to our modern practice of moving some feast days to Sunday when they actually occur during the week (as is commonly practiced with the feast of the Epiphany). It could also be likened to the bishops declaring a holy day not obligatory because of the day upon which it happens to fall. For example, if a holy day falls on a Friday, the bishops will sometimes dispense Catholics from the obligation of attending Mass on that particular holy day for that year.

What does all of this mean? When Jesus actually celebrated the Passover, he did it in the traditional way of the Pharisees. That is what we see in the synoptic Gospels. With the Pharisees, Jesus kept the Passover strictly in accord with what Moses said in Ex. 12. However, when John wrote about Christ’s passion, he does not put the emphasis on the Lord’s Supper that the synoptic Gospel writers do. In fact, he does not mention the Lord’s Supper at all. He emphasizes the crucifixion. Only in passing, as he describes the activity of the day, does John mention that it was "the day of preparation." John was not speaking of the practice of Jesus and the apostles; he was speaking of the practice of the Sadducees, who had a large number of priests in their camp and great influence in the culture at the time. This fact explains why John calls Friday the "day of preparation" instead of Thursday. The Sadducees, who moved the Passover to Saturday, celebrated the day of preparation on Friday, rather than on Thursday as Jesus and the apostles did.

 

[reba]

Every spring we get the same thing.... many folks all tied up in who is right about what day this or that happened ... It is about WHO arose and what would He think of the bickering?

...according to working of His might power, when He raised Him from the dead, and set him at His own right hand in heavenly places, far above all principality and power and might and dominion and every name that is named... (Ephesians 1).

Amen!

 

[Goinheix]

Thanks for participating. Your conclusions are so full of mistakes that is difficult to decide where to star. But thanks for ypur contribution. If you have nothing else to say; good by.

I will thank you now for watching your tone with me. Consider it a warning, and know that I am reluctant to make it an official warning but will do so if you need me to.

Regarding my "conclusion," I have stated one and one only. He is Risen.

Your conclusion is totally wrong from beginning to end. It contain so many mistakes and is avoiding so many points that it is a lost of my time try to answer to a conclusion you dont want to defend.

The Gospels are very clear.

 

[farouk]

Amen!

... and

 

[Goinheix]

This view comes from the article How Do We Explain the Passover "Discrepancy"? by Tim Staples of Catholic Answers Magazine:

Just the Facts, Please

We know for certain that our Lord died on Friday (cf. Matt. 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, and John 19:31).

We dont know for certain that our Lord died on Friday. Thouse verses are not saying that He died on Friday.
WRONG

 

[reba]

Some where in the back of my mind I am thing I remember reading/hearing the Israelites had 2 calendars. Thinking one was for 'High Days" ?

 

[Goinheix]

This view comes from the article How Do We Explain the Passover "Discrepancy"? by Tim Staples of Catholic Answers Magazine:

Just the Facts, Please



But the question remains: Why in the synoptic Gospels does Jesus celebrate the Passover on Thursday night (and, of course, given the fact that Passover fell on Friday in that year, this would be expected), but in the Gospel of John, Friday is "the day of preparation"? According to John, Passover fell on Saturday, which is why he refers to it as a "great Sabbath day" (cf. John 19:31). It was not only the Sabbath, but it was Passover as well. We still have to deal with this apparent contradiction.

You are making the wrong asumption that Jesus were crucified on Friday. That was not proven by you yet.

 

[Goinheix]

Some where in the back of my mind I am thing I remember reading/hearing the Israelites had 2 calendars. Thinking one was for 'High Days" ?

Not truth. They have one calendar; Moses calendar.

 

[Goinheix]

This view comes from the article How Do We Explain the Passover "Discrepancy"? by Tim Staples of Catholic Answers Magazine:

Just the Facts, Please


But the question remains: Why in the synoptic Gospels does Jesus celebrate the Passover on Thursday night (and, of course, given the fact that Passover fell on Friday in that year, this would be expected), but in the Gospel of John, Friday is "the day of preparation"? According to John, Passover fell on Saturday, which is why he refers to it as a "great Sabbath day" (cf. John 19:31). It was not only the Sabbath, but it was Passover as well. We still have to deal with this apparent contradiction.

According to The Navarre Study Bible, in Mark’s Gospel the Pharisees and Sadducees had a different way of celebrating feast days (51-52). The Pharisees were strict in their observance. If the fifteenth of Nisan fell on Friday, then that would be the day they celebrated the Passover. The Sadducees, on the other hand, were more liberal and had no problem with moving a feast day in certain situations. This practice is analogous to our modern practice of moving some feast days to Sunday when they actually occur during the week (as is commonly practiced with the feast of the Epiphany). It could also be likened to the bishops declaring a holy day not obligatory because of the day upon which it happens to fall. For example, if a holy day falls on a Friday, the bishops will sometimes dispense Catholics from the obligation of attending Mass on that particular holy day for that year.

the Navarrete Study Bible has not authority.
there is not any evidence of that fabrication.

 

[Sparkey]

Again, and for the third time (as you know) I am not presenting conclusion. I am presenting documentation for the view of others. My only stated conclusion is that Jesus is Risen.

Here then, CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS AFTER, NOT DURING PASSOVER FESTIVAL© by Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, published: http://aristean.org/passover1.htm, excerpt presented here under "fair use".

BACKGROUND
This webpage is a revision of an earlier webpage published in November 2002 wherein I asserted that the revealed crucifixion date of August 17, 1 BC by the Holy Spirit was a Friday. After a year of not being able to prove that the crucifixion day was a Friday and having come across the Perpetual Jewish/Civil Calendar Conversion by Alan D Corre, and the Yet Another Calendar Converter by Timothy James Forsythe, I came to accept that the date was a Thursday.

 

[Sparkey]

We dont know for certain

We dont know for certain that our Lord died on Friday.

I think we can agree that Jesus is our Risen Lord, right? I've not stated the the crucifixion happened on Friday. I do know of scholars who dispute these things, that is certain.

 

[Goinheix]

This view comes from the article How Do We Explain the Passover "Discrepancy"? by Tim Staples of Catholic Answers Magazine:

Just the Facts, Please



What does all of this mean? When Jesus actually celebrated the Passover, he did it in the traditional way of the Pharisees. That is what we see in the synoptic Gospels. With the Pharisees, Jesus kept the Passover strictly in accord with what Moses said in Ex. 12. However, when John wrote about Christ’s passion, he does not put the emphasis on the Lord’s Supper that the synoptic Gospel writers do. In fact, he does not mention the Lord’s Supper at all. He emphasizes the crucifixion. Only in passing, as he describes the activity of the day, does John mention that it was "the day of preparation." John was not speaking of the practice of Jesus and the apostles; he was speaking of the practice of the Sadducees, who had a large number of priests in their camp and great influence in the culture at the time. This fact explains why John calls Friday the "day of preparation" instead of Thursday. The Sadducees, who moved the Passover to Saturday, celebrated the day of preparation on Friday, rather than on Thursday as Jesus and the apostles did.

1 - John never uses the word "Friday"
2 - All that is a fabrication to create a false explanation.
3 - it does not explain many other details that are keept aside as for example: Jesus was at Pilates by the 6th hour, and the trial continued for a good while. How is it possible that Jesus were crucified by the 3rd hour?

As you say and I quote you "Just Facts, Please". We need actual facts, no fabrications.

 

[Goinheix]

Again, and for the third time (as you know) I am not presenting conclusion. I am presenting documentation for the view of others. My only stated conclusion is that Jesus is Risen.

Here then, CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS AFTER, NOT DURING PASSOVER FESTIVAL© by Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader, published: http://aristean.org/passover1.htm, excerpt presented here under "fair use".

BACKGROUND
This webpage is a revision of an earlier webpage published in November 2002 wherein I asserted that the revealed crucifixion date of August 17, 1 BC by the Holy Spirit was a Friday. After a year of not being able to prove that the crucifixion day was a Friday and having come across the Perpetual Jewish/Civil Calendar Conversion by Alan D Corre, and the Yet Another Calendar Converter by Timothy James Forsythe, I came to accept that the date was a Thursday.

Passover in August? Sorry but it goes against all we know.

 

[Goinheix]

We dont know for certain

We dont know for certain that our Lord died on Friday.

I think we can agree that Jesus is our Risen Lord, right? I've not stated the the crucifixion happened on Friday. I do know of scholars who dispute these things, that is certain.

We know for sure that our Lord risen and risen in Sunday, in First Fruit Sunday.
We also know that many scholars have made some statements leaving big holes. We call it the short blaket. The schoolars make an statement here, leaven the other end uncovered. Then, some other schoolar say the oposite, leaving uncovered the other end. No one schoolar has ever given a satisfactory answer.

 

[Sparkey]

THE CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS, Excerpt from: Kenneth F. Doig, New Testament Chronology, (Lewiston, NY: Edwin Mellen Press, 1990), who purports to give "Exact Dating of the Exodus and Birth and Crucifixion of Jesus," in the online article.

The day of the crucifixion of Jesus was a Wednesday, Thursday or a Friday. That day on the Jewish calendar was Nisan 14 or Nisan 15, depending on whether the day was reckoned from sunrise or sunset. There are six possible combinations leading to four possible dates of the crucifixion. These dates are Thursday, April 6, 30 CE, Friday, April 7, 30 CE, Wednesday, March 28, 31 CE and Friday, April 3, 33 CE. On which day was Jesus nailed to the cross?

Doig goes on to cite his source saying, "The above possible days and dates for the crucifixion are discussed in the chapter, "Astronomical Determination of the New Moon." The surrounding years are there eliminated as possible for His crucifixion." Additional information may be gleaned here: Determining the New Moon and Holy Days in Leviticus 23 by Anthony V. Gaudiano.

Here then is his conclusion:

Matthew, Mark and Luke are clear that the Last Supper was a Passover supper, and Jesus was crucified the following day, Nisan 15. John, however, seems to say that a Passover followed Jesus' crucifixion on Nisan 14.

In "The Two Passovers" [chapter of this work] the possibility is examined that there were two Passovers according to the tradition of the Pharisees and pilgrims from the Diaspora. The Sadducean priests conducted the first Passover that included the slaying of the lambs. The Pharisees and many pilgrims observed a second "Passover" seder without the lamb. This calendar arrangement would have been possible in 30 CE, but not in 31 or 33 CE. Next, the Passover would sometimes fall on different days because the Sadducees used sunrise reckoning and the Pharisees used sunset reckoning. This will allow two Passovers in 30 or 31 CE. In 33 CE the observation of the new moon beginning the month was such that only one Passover was possible. By sunrise or sunset reckoning two Passovers are not possible in 33 CE. There is further discussion to consider that John is using the term "Passover" interchangeably with the "Feast of Unleavened Bread." Then there was only the Passover Last Supper, and Jesus was crucified the following day.

The chapter "It is the Third Day," examines the crucifixion from the perspective of Jesus' resurrection. A Friday crucifixion followed by the resurrection shortly after sunrise on Sunday seems confirmed. The Wednesday and Thursday crucifixions are eliminated as possible.

The evidence to this point leads to a Friday crucifixion on Nisan 14/15 in 30 CE, with the observance of two Passovers. The Wednesday crucifixion in 31 CE is repeatedly eliminated. The Thursday crucifixion in 30 CE has the main problem of requiring the Last Supper to have not been a Passover supper, but the lambs had already been slain earlier that day. The Friday crucifixion on Nisan 14 in 33 CE has the same problem, and two Passovers in that year are not astronomically possible. However, the possibility that the crucifixion occurred in 33 CE is again considered in "Pilate, Sejanus and 33 CE." These last arguments still fall short of establishing the crucifixion of Jesus in 33 CE.

The crucifixion of Jesus on Friday, April 7, 30 CE is established in the summary chapter "The 30 CE Crucifixion." This is then put in sequence with the dating leading up to 30 CE, and the dates are charted. This provides a firm starting point to consider the growth of the early Church.

By the way, "The 30 CE Crucifixion" chapter is chapter #24 of the book this guy wrote.

My thought? Glad you asked. Kenneth F. Doig agrees with me when I say, Jesus is Risen!

 

[Goinheix]

In reference to the crucifixion we have two aspects to determine: the day of the week and the date of the month.

I guess it was proven that Jesus did resurrect on Sunday.
That Jesus was dead for three days and three night, making the crucifixion day on Thursday.
That the Gospels do not mention the Friday at all.
That Matthew mention two consecutive sabbath days (thosee between Thu and Sun)

I also guess that it was proven that Jesus ended Nisan 14th alive and free.
That Jesus were not crucified on the High Sabbath Nisan 15th.
That Jesus were crucified on a preparation day for a High Sabbath of Passover.
That the two High Sabbath of Passover are the 15th and th 21st, being preparation day the 14th (wich Jesus ended alive and free) and the 20th.

Aditional I guees it was proven that Jesus were not crucified the same day of his arrest.
That the Gospels describe very long trials.
That the Gospels record deveral sunrises (several days)
That John states that Jesus was at pilates one day and was crucified next day.

 

[Goinheix]

Here then is his conclusion:

Matthew, Mark and Luke are clear that the Last Supper was a Passover supper, and Jesus was crucified the following day, Nisan 15.

WRONG
The synoptics dont say that Jesus was crucified the following day. I request a verse of Mat, Mark or Luke stating that.

 

[Goinheix]

John, however, seems to say that a Passover followed Jesus' crucifixion on Nisan 14.

"Seems" is too vague. John is saying that the crucifixion ocurred on a preparation day for a High Sabbath of Passover. There is two day wich are preparation day of a High Sabbath of Passover: 14th and 20th. If we asume that John did read the 3 synoptics, and that the synoptics states that the crucifixion was not the 14th; we only have the 20th as only possible day according to John.