[__ Science __ ] Theistic Evolution Is Not the Real Problem!

[Milk-Drops]

Why won't you just listen.
If the first verses of the Bible are a lie... why believe anything?
That is one of the reasons it matters.

It would not be a lie. What it would be is either a translation error or a simplification for us non omnipotent non God being can comprehend what's going on. Metaphor isn't a lie.

Like if evolution is part of God's plan... then Jesus is not needed.

Wait, why? Jesus is God incarnate and comes down and sacrifices himself so that humans can find a way to salvation. Organisms chang8ng based on a combination of genetics and surroundings wouldn't change that.

If evolution is part of God's plan... then death did not come through Adam... then Jesus didn't bring life.

Unless it's a metaphor and symbolism to represent humans obtaining self awareness and God giving people a path forward.

So and old earth model is the antithesis of the Christian faith.

Only if you can not see the oral history of the Jewish people as including metaphor.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Nasa uses solar hours not lunar or earth time .

Gotcha. It's been awhile since I took physics. :p

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It would not be a lie. What it would be is either a translation error or a simplification for us non omnipotent non God being can comprehend what's going on. Metaphor isn't a lie.

Wait, why? Jesus is God incarnate and comes down and sacrifices himself so that humans can find a way to salvation. Organisms chang8ng based on a combination of genetics and surroundings wouldn't change that.
Unless it's a metaphor and symbolism to represent humans obtaining self awareness and God giving people a path forward.

How did this happen if there was no Adam?

 

[dwb001]

It would not be a lie. What it would be is either a translation error or a simplification for us non omnipotent non God being can comprehend what's going on. Metaphor isn't a lie.

Metaphor is by definition a lie. When you deliberately say that something is not what it is, but something else... it is a lie.
"My dog is a cat" is a metaphor or a lie. "My dog is like a cat" is a simile and not a lie.

Wait, why? Jesus is God incarnate and comes down and sacrifices himself so that humans can find a way to salvation. Organisms chang8ng based on a combination of genetics and surroundings wouldn't change that.
Unless it's a metaphor and symbolism to represent humans obtaining self awareness and God giving people a path forward.
Only if you can not see the oral history of the Jewish people as including metaphor.

So my question to you is if you do not believe in this Christian stuff... why does it matter to you.
Your bio page says you don't believe this so why should it matter to you.

My answer was included to all of your above concerns.
But one more time.
If death,disease and suffering is a part of God's good plan... then why would Jesus need to save us?

Your post shows you to believe a very different version of events other that what the Bible teaches.
Maybe just start with reading the Bible as if it was true.
It might be eye opening for you.

 

[jasonc]

Jewish rabbis historically don't see the torah as a metaphor .

My chumash ,commentary by the conservative rabbis of the time see the earth as possibly old but not many .

Chassidics see it as young earth .

 

[Milk-Drops]

How did this happen if there was no Adam?

I see the old Testament stories of Genesis as Fables passed down through the tribes of Isreal. I understand my view is not universal and am willing to accept others don't share it. I view the messages more important than the stickers of the mechanics of the arc or whether the creation story lines up with the fosil record.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I see the old Testament stories of Genesis as Fables passed down through the tribes of Isreal. I understand my view is not universal and am willing to accept others don't share it. I view the messages more important than the stickers of the mechanics of the arc or whether the creation story lines up with the fosil record.

Is the promised Messiah a fable? Was promised in the “book of fables” Genesis. (The fossil record, btw, supports Genesis and is a major problem for evolution.)

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Theistic evolution is a major compromise. As Ive said, I test the fruit of theories and when I observed the TE camp, I see compromise which maybe comes from belief that God told “untruths”to Moses, et al.

Mr TE himself, Dr Francis Collins was caught in major ethical wrong doing which probably his its roots in rejecting parts of the Bible. If God lies, well why can’t he?

 

[Milk-Drops]

I quite frankly don't know. For me it's more important the message than the details. I don't think Evolution as a theory has a problem with Genesis. From what I understand, whatever the truth of the matter will bare out.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I quite frankly don't know. For me it's more important the message than the details. I don't think Evolution as a theory has a problem with Genesis. From what I understand, whatever the truth of the matter will bare out.

Evolution says God’s world progressed through death. Evolution says God lied to Moses. Evolution gives no reason for Jesus since sin was not based on one man’s disobedience. Jesus talked about Abel and there was no Abel. Was he ignorant or lying? The list goes on and on.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Evolution says God’s world progressed through death.

No. The theory says organisms change through decent.

Evolution says God lied to Moses. Evolution gives no reason for Jesus since sin was not based on one man’s disobedience. Jesus talked about Abel and there was no Abel. Was he ignorant or lying? The list goes on and on.

Are you talking about the theory of evo l union or some belief system called Evolution? I consider living to be an intentional act. If a writer interpreting events is ignorant or is using what is considered evidence for the time, then its not a lie.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No. The theory says organisms change through decent.

The change prevailed because the others died. Death is absolutely necessary in evolution. Survival of the fittest requires the unfit or less fit to die out so the change prevails. Do you see what I mean?

Are you talking about the theory of evo l union or some belief system called Evolution? I consider living to be an intentional act. If a writer interpreting events is ignorant or is using what is considered evidence for the time, then it’s not a lie.

Not sure what you mean here.

 

[Milk-Drops]

The change prevailed because the others died.

No, its because others procreated.

Death is absolutely necessary in evolution. Survival of the fittest requires the unfit or less fit to die out so the change prevails. Do you see what I mean?

I accept that organisms die. That is true, even in a christian world view. Organisms are not immortal.

Not sure what you mean here.

I'm asking because sometimes I get the feeling that many treat Evolution as a world view instead of just one of many theories in science.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No, its because others procreated.

Those who had a genetic advantage procreated faster or survived longer whereas the competing non-advantaged forms died out. This by their dying a new species or whatever took over. Without death, there is no change in the evolved life forms.

I accept that organisms die. That is true, even in a christian world view. Organisms are not immortal.

They did not die in the garden.

I'm asking because sometimes I get the feeling that many treat Evolution as a world view instead of just one of many theories in science.

It is a world view.

 

[Barbarian]

It is a world view.

It's just a scientific theory. It merely says that variation is a fact in biology, and that this variation affects the likelihood of reproductive success, which determines how living things will change over time.

It does threaten the world views of some people, even a minority of Christians. But that's an entirely different issue.

 

[Milk-Drops]

How did this happen if there was no Adam?

I dint know. *shrugging emoji*

 

[Milk-Drops]

Those who had a genetic advantage procreated faster or survived longer whereas the competing non-advantaged forms died out. This by their dying a new species or whatever took over. Without death, there is no change in the evolved life forms.

Death would change populations. Changes to life forms happen during pricreation.

They did not die in the garden.

I see the garden as metaphor and a Fable.

It is a world view.

Oddly it's only a world view to People who want to argue against it. I have never met a person who is a self described Evolutionist without some form of jest or sarcasm.

 

[Barbarian]

Oddly it's only a world view to People who want to argue against it. I have never met a person who is a self described Evolutionist without some form of jest or sarcasm.

One might as well describe one's self as a "Gravitationist."

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I dint know. *shrugging emoji*

Means your position removes an answer Genesis gives. You are left with less understanding by rejecting the Genesis account of our origins and embracing TE.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Death would change populations.

That is the basis of evolution. Populations change through death.

Changes to life forms happen during pricreation.

Well, there are no known one for humans that aid in greater survival to procreate. All genetic mutations that are known are lethal or benign.

I see the garden as metaphor and a Fable.

Yes, I know you do. That is the poison of TE or evolution in general. You will have less understanding of man and God as a result. Do you see the cross as a metaphor and a fable? I guess the flood is a fable too, right? Are the prophets a fable? What about Moses and the nation of Israel. Is that a fable too? Where does the fable end and reality begin?

Oddly it's only a world view to People who want to argue against it. I have never met a person who is a self described Evolutionist without some form of jest or sarcasm.

No a world view is how one views the world. It is not such because of what other people think of it. I work in science and they are all evolutionists or believe in scientism and we have never discussed it. It is how they view the world.