There are many mysteries about God.

[Carry_Your_Name]

Prior to Genesis 1:1, there was no creation--yet God was. He was not lacking, incomplete, or undefined before He created. So to root His “core identity” in something that began in time is to tether His essence to something non-eternal, which violates His very aseity and unchangeability (Malachi 3:6; Psalm 90:2).

Yes, God is self-exsistent, He indeed predates His creation, yet how do you know that? Does the bible predates His creation? As a historic fact, KJV did not exist until the early 1600s during the reign of king James I, that's why it's called King James Version. Does the trinity predates His creation? This doctrine was not established until the Nicene Council. Does the incarnation of the Word - not the Word - predates His creation? No, that took place at God's appointed time and place, right? Put it another way, the Word was with God at the beginning, but the Word obviously didn't become flesh - which was created on Day Six, and that flesh was "Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come," right? These are all means to know Him, it's like your avatar "Johann!@#" is a way to know you, but it's not your core identity. If you root His core identity in the Holy Trinity, you root his core identity in all these things that came much later, you fail to recognize his ORIGINAL identity beyond all of these.

And yes, God's "essence" and his works are distinct, you can speculate and theorize God's "essence" in any way you want, folks had done that for centuries, even fought bloody wars, but at the end of the day, only can you truly know him and experience him through his works as long as you live in this world, any attempt to figure our God's "essence" while bypassing his works is a futile attempt of putting God in a box. "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." (Jn. 4:24) God's spirit directs you to Jesus, God's truth reveals him through his works, as Lord Jesus defended himself with his works. "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” (Jn. 10:37-38)

 

[Free]

It's based on human doctrine, not Scripture.

No, it's thoroughly based on Scripture.

You're putting God in the box of trinitarian theology.

It isn't a box--it's fundamental to who he is.

Mine on the other hand is based on Gen. 1:1 and Ex. 3:14, anything else, including his triune nature, derives from there.

You've put God in a box that is required to exist before he can be his core identity.

You do realize I've never said "eternal creation", don't you? How can creator NOT be at the core of his identity when He created time and space out of nothing, ex nihilo?

You completely missed the argument. What I was clearly saying is that while God is eternal, creation is not, therefore, he cannot be an "eternal Creator." You have God's (supposed) core identity relying on the existence of creation, rather than who he is ontologically.

You're essentially saying that God needed to create in order to become his core identity. That means he couldn't have been himself until he created. But, what the Bible shows is that God created out of his core identity; it was an expression of who he is.

I cling to his identity revealed by himself in Gen. 1:1 and Ex. 3:14 instead of speculating with my own intellect.

Except that you don't realize that being the Creator isn't at the core of his identity.

If there's a pre-existing nature of His being, that's the mystery OP talks about,

"If there's a pre-existing nature of His being"!? This is one of the most stunning statements by someone who professes to be a believer. Have you actually read and understood the Bible? Of course you think you have, but your statement is really calling into question whether or not God actually exists or is a figment of our imagination. If God didn't pre-exist, then we would not exist. If he pre-existed, then yes, there absolutely is a pre-existent nature of his being.

it's not for you or I to speculate.

We don't have to. Everything I have said is based on the Bible, which is precisely why Christians have believed it since the beginning.

No surprise, typical tactics, accusing your opponent of your own guilt.

So you say while you appear to teach heresy.

The Trinity is a mechanism to know his identity, in and of itself it's NOT his core identity.

Then you have not understood the Bible, nor the nature of Jesus, nor the doctrine of the Trinity.
I see no need for further discussion with someone who calls into question the pre-existence of God and denies the nature of the Trinity.

 

[Free]

Yes, God is self-exsistent, He indeed predates His creation, yet how do you know that? Does the bible predates His creation? As a historic fact, KJV did not exist until the early 1600s during the reign of king James I, that's why it's called King James Version. Does the trinity predates His creation? This doctrine was not established until the Nicene Council. Does the incarnation of the Word - not the Word - predates His creation? No, that took place at God's appointed time and place, right? Put it another way, the Word was with God at the beginning, but the Word obviously didn't become flesh - which was created on Day Six, and that flesh was "Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come," right? These are all means to know Him, it's like your avatar "Johann!@#" is a way to know you, but it's not your core identity. If you root His core identity in the Holy Trinity, you root his core identity in all these things that came much later, you fail to recognize his ORIGINAL identity beyond all of these.

And yes, God's "essence" and his works are distinct, you can speculate and theorize God's "essence" in any way you want, folks had done that for centuries, even fought bloody wars, but at the end of the day, only can you truly know him and experience him through his works as long as you live in this world, any attempt to figure our God's "essence" while bypassing his works is a futile attempt of putting God in a box. "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." (Jn. 4:24) God's spirit directs you to Jesus, God's truth reveals him through his works, as Lord Jesus defended himself with his works. "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.” (Jn. 10:37-38)

This is all based on very poor reasoning. You're literally calling the inspiration of the Bible into question and essentially denying that God has revealed himself to us in it. Wow.

 

[Free]

God, as revealed in the Bible, is mysterious:
--THREE Persons as Father, Jesus, and Spirit but only ONE God.
--Jesus as all-God and all-human to be able BOTH to die and then rise permanently from the dead.
--invisible but revealed in his actions of creation and salvation.

There are many ways people have devised to sidestep these truths that the Bible reveals. In those ways, humans often want their reason to win out instead of accepting the Bible's witness that God is mysterious. Why? What do you think?

I think it is the Western mindset—the need for everything to be rational and fully comprehensible. Mystery could be seen as irrational or as a problem to be solved, maybe even childish.

 

[Free]

In eastern orthodox, God the Father has always been mysterious, and that's because He as the creator of the universe is OUTSIDE the universe he created, he's beyond time and space.

The Orthodox also include the Son and the Holy Spirit as coequal and coeternal with the Father, having existed prior to and been involved in creation.