"Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. (Matt. 24:44 NKJ)

[Alfred Persson]

When asked if Jesus “will return to Earth someday,” more than half of all U.S. adults (55%), including three-quarters of Christians, say this will happen. Protestants in the evangelical (92%) and historically Black (86%) traditions are more likely than other Christians to say there will eventually be a second coming of Jesus. Roughly four-in-ten Americans either do not believe Jesus will return to Earth (25%) or say they do not believe in Jesus (16%).

Respondents who said they believe Jesus will return to Earth were also asked how certain they are that this will happen during their lifetime. One-in-ten Americans say they believe the second coming of Jesus will definitely or probably occur during their lifetime, 27% are not sure if Jesus will return in their lifetime, and 19% say the return of Jesus will definitely or probably not occur during their lifetime.

The proportion of Americans who say they believe Jesus will definitely or probably return during their lifetime is higher among Protestants in the historically Black tradition (22%) and evangelical Protestants (21%), and lower among Catholics (7%) and mainline Protestants (6%). And the share of Black (19%) and Hispanic (14%) Americans who believe that the second coming of Jesus will likely occur during their lifetime is greater than the corresponding share of White, non-Hispanic Americans (8%).

That said, in all religious groups, people are more likely to express uncertainty over the timing of Jesus’ return than to express the sense that it will happen in their lifetime. For example, about seven-in-ten evangelicals say either that they are not sure Jesus will return during their lifetime (50%) or that Jesus will definitely or probably not return during their lifetime (21%). And nearly two-thirds of those in the historically Black Protestant tradition say they are either unsure of the timing (47%) or that it will probably or definitely not happen during their lifetime (17%).

About four-in-ten U.S. adults believe humanity is ‘living in the end times’

58% of U.S. adults say they do not believe “we are living in the end times” – the destruction of the world as we know it.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Alfred Persson]

We are commanded to live expecting Christ could come at any moment:

"Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. (Matt. 24:42 NKJ)

AND we are told certain signs will inform us when He is near:

32 "Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near.
33 "So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near-- at the doors!
34 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. (Matt. 24:32-34 NKJ)

1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? (2 Thess. 2:1-5 NKJ)

One solution to this tension between expecting the end at any second, and not seeing all the signs one expects to see that indicate Christ is near, is to realize we all can die at any moment, in the next few seconds.

Then both premises are true, we can be in the presence of Christ in an hour we thought not, and yet before we saw all the signs of His coming being near.

Another solution is we have seen the signs, but have misinterpreted them.

What do you think removes the paradox of Christ coming at a time we don't expect, yet signs we will recognize presage His coming?

Sometimes People deny what they know to be true. Could that be a resolution of the paradox?

 

[for_his_glory]

Really do not see any relevance in this thread as percents are only speculations and never accurate as who are and how many have been asked this question and who is doing the asking.

The point of Christ return has already been written in the scriptures if one would read them for what they say. The Disciples asked Jesus three questions in Matthew 24:3 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? In vs. 4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. From vs 4-51 Jesus begins to answer theses three questions and told them of all that must come first before His return. Two main verses are vs. 29-31 and 36-39. For now we just need to make sure we are prepared for that glorious day as we need to be about our Fathers business.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Really do not see any relevance in this thread as percents are only speculations and never accurate as who are and how many have been asked this question and who is doing the asking.

The point of Christ return has already been written in the scriptures if one would read them for what they say. The Disciples asked Jesus three questions in Matthew 24:3 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? In vs. 4 Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. From vs 4-51 Jesus begins to answer theses three questions and told them of all that must come first before His return. Two main verses are vs. 29-31 and 36-39. For now we just need to make sure we are prepared for that glorious day as we need to be about our Fathers business.

Its relevant but as you note, not all that helpful as indicating truth.

What do you think is the "sign" of Christ's coming, the coming itself or an actual sign preceding it?

If its a sign everyone recognizes, it may indicate why so many are saved in the end time, not lost forever:

9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,
10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"
11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God,
12 saying: "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, Thanksgiving and honor and power and might, Be to our God forever and ever. Amen."
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?"
14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (Rev. 7:9-14 NKJ)

 

[for_his_glory]

What do you think is the "sign" of Christ's coming, the coming itself or an actual sign preceding it?

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Only those with Spiritual knowledge will understand what signs Jesus gave us to look for before He returns.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Only those with Spiritual knowledge will understand what signs Jesus gave us to look for before He returns.

Or, both scripture and early Christian writing supplies enough to believe its an opening in the sky:

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. (Rev. 19:11-14 NKJ)

In the First century the Didache or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles took this literally:

And then the signs of the truth shall appear: first, a sign of an opening in heaven; then a sign of the sound of a trumpet; and the third sign, the resurrection of the dead. Now, not all of the dead but as was said, the Lord shall come and all the holy ones with him. Then the world will see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.-Brannan, R. (Trans.). (2012). The Apostolic Fathers in English. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

Also pertinent:

"For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. (Matt. 24:27 NKJ)

A SciFi fan might think of a "Stargate".

The whirlwind Elijah went throughout reminds me of "vortex the Sliders" went through going from one alternate world to the next.

Sliders (TV Series 1995–2000) ⭐ 7.4 | Adventure, Fantasy, Sci-Fi

1h | TV-PG

www.imdb.com

At "Skinwalker Ranch" there are videos of possible "portal openings into another dimension" or "alternate reality", which is what "the heavenlies" would be in modern cosmology.

But leaving out all non-scriptural speculation and imagination, it does appear angels etc. enter our "realm" through a portal "opening" one must step through to traverse the realms:

12 Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it...
17 And he was afraid and said, "How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven!" (Gen. 28:12, 17 NKJ)

Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (2 Ki. 2:11 NKJ)

When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. (Matt. 3:16 NKJ)

And He said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man." (Jn. 1:51-2:1 NKJ)

After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this." (Rev. 4:1 NKJ)

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. (Rev. 19:11 NKJ)

 

[for_his_glory]

Or, both scripture and early Christian writing supplies enough to believe its an opening in the sky:

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. (Rev. 19:11-14 NKJ)

In the First century the Didache or Teaching of the Twelve Apostles took this literally:

And then the signs of the truth shall appear: first, a sign of an opening in heaven; then a sign of the sound of a trumpet; and the third sign, the resurrection of the dead. Now, not all of the dead but as was said, the Lord shall come and all the holy ones with him. Then the world will see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.-Brannan, R. (Trans.). (2012). The Apostolic Fathers in English. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

Also pertinent:

"For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. (Matt. 24:27 NKJ)

A SciFi fan might think of a "Stargate".

The whirlwind Elijah went throughout reminds me of "vortex the Sliders" went through going from one alternate world to the next.

Sliders (TV Series 1995–2000) ⭐ 7.4 | Adventure, Fantasy, Sci-Fi

1h | TV-PG

www.imdb.com

At "Skinwalker Ranch" there are videos of possible "portal openings into another dimension" or "alternate reality", which is what "the heavenlies" would be in modern cosmology.

But leaving out all non-scriptural speculation and imagination, it does appear angels etc. enter our "realm" through a portal "opening" one must step through to traverse the realms:

12 Then he dreamed, and behold, a ladder was set up on the earth, and its top reached to heaven; and there the angels of God were ascending and descending on it...
17 And he was afraid and said, "How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven!" (Gen. 28:12, 17 NKJ)

Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (2 Ki. 2:11 NKJ)

When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. (Matt. 3:16 NKJ)

And He said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man." (Jn. 1:51-2:1 NKJ)

After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this." (Rev. 4:1 NKJ)

Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. (Rev. 19:11 NKJ)

Many things in those scriptures you gave are literal and symbolic or having nothing to do with the topic. There is no special portal that will appear when Christ returns, Matthew 24:29-31. Everything is literal of the events leading up to the return of Christ after the tribulation of those days as then every eye will see Him coming with the clouds with His army of angels He will send out to gather us up to meet Him in the air, those in their graves and those alive at His coming, John 5:28-29.


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Rev 19:14 And the armies (angels, not humans) which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The only thing that goes back to God is the very breath/Spirit that made us a living soul

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

I only stick to what the Bible and Biblical history teaches me.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Many things in those scriptures you gave are literal and symbolic or having nothing to do with the topic. There is no special portal that will appear when Christ returns, Matthew 24:29-31. Everything is literal of the events leading up to the return of Christ after the tribulation of those days as then every eye will see Him coming with the clouds with His army of angels He will send out to gather us up to meet Him in the air, those in their graves and those alive at His coming, John 5:28-29.


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Rev 19:14 And the armies (angels, not humans) which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

The only thing that goes back to God is the very breath/Spirit that made us a living soul

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

I only stick to what the Bible and Biblical history teaches me.

Our cosmology is radically different. I acknowledge your views are in accord with mainstream historic Christian thought.

Mine could be described as "heterodox".

But Scripture predicts Scripture wording would speak differently to those living in the end time, who were watching it being fulfilled before their eyes. The unfolding knowledge would shed new light on the language scripture used:

8 Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, "My lord, what shall be the end of these things?"
9 And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. (Dan. 12:8-9 NKJ)

Unlike Classic Catholic (=Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant) views of reality, I believe we exist in a meta-universe.


Within Christ (Col. 1:17) consists two matrix's, the heavenly (the "complete" teleios), and the earthly (the "partial" meros):

"but when that which is complete (τέλειον) has come, then that which is partial (μέρους) will be done away with. (1 Cor. 13:10 RPTE)

In the "heavenlies" God manifests theophanies of Himself, and the infinite God the Son Jesus subsists in both the "form of God" (Phil. 2:6) and His resurrected human nature, on a Throne. Also, Angels who are physical beings and Men like Enoch, Moses, Elijah are physical. Aso there are spirits, and also in third heaven the spirits of just men made perfect....

The Partial "earthly" sphere of existence where WE live, is separated from "the heavenlies" by a dimensional barrier that must be crossed through "a portal" for anyone to journey from here to there or vice versa.

Discard Medieval Concepts of Heaven and Earth for the Scriptural Meta-Universe | End Time News, Today - Rapture Ready News

Meta-Universe: "A ‘universe of universes’; an assembly of universes, considered as a whole."-Oxford English Dictionary. The multiverse is a hypothetical group of multiple universes. Together, these universes comprise everything that exists: the entirety of space, time, matter, energy...

endtimenews.net

This new "cosmology" is "outside of the Catholic box" and takes into account the new discoveries science has made on the nature of reality itself, Quantum physics.

The new views on the nature of reality are consistent with the revelation of scripture. In other words, scripture was far ahead of its time. Scripture is scientifically accurate, unlike medieval views of the substance of reality.

I won't criticize those who cling to medieval concepts of reality, because as Christ pointed out, to many "the old wine is better".

But it will be a fact, when fallen angels appear physically on earth as they did in the days of Noah, the "old view" of these things will suffer a devastating rejection.

Nephilim Fallen Angels and the Sons of God | End Time News, Today - Rapture Ready News

The Nephilim: Satan's Fallen Angels 1 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the LORD said,

endtimenews.net

 

[for_his_glory]

Our cosmology is radically different. I acknowledge your views are in accord with mainstream historic Christian thought.

None of what I have said are just my views, but scripture only if one would read them for what they say without adding to or taking away from them. A child can understand them, but adults have to tear them apart, put them under a religious microscope mingled with what they are indoctrinated in in which makes scripture line up with what they believe.

You have every right to believe as you will as you are very closed minded to what any of us have to say. It's time for me to move on and you have a good day.

 

[Alfred Persson]

None of what I have said are just my views, but scripture only if one would read them for what they say without adding to or taking away from them. A child can understand them, but adults have to tear them apart, put them under a religious microscope mingled with what they are indoctrinated in in which makes scripture line up with what they believe.

You have every right to believe as you will as you are very closed minded to what any of us have to say. It's time for me to move on and you have a good day.

Can't let mischaracterization slide. My views reflect Quantum Physics, unlike the classic "metaphysics" of the past, which have been proven wrong by scientific observation...But scripture didn't change, it never taught medieval errors about reality, the metaphysics of the ancient Greek Philosophers which infested the Church:

Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. (Col. 2:8 NKJ)

Clinging to old theories of reality, can be the result of indoctrination, forcing scripture line up with Greek philosophical notions about the nature of reality, and closed mindedness.

Peer pressure is another reason why people prefer ancient error.

Its best to discard error, replace it with the truth of scripture.

Discard Medieval Concepts of Heaven and Earth for the Scriptural Meta-Universe | End Time News, Today - Rapture Ready News

Meta-Universe: "A ‘universe of universes’; an assembly of universes, considered as a whole."-Oxford English Dictionary. The multiverse is a hypothetical group of multiple universes. Together, these universes comprise everything that exists: the entirety of space, time, matter, energy...

endtimenews.net

 

[Oseas]

1Corinthians 6:9-10KJV say:
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of GOD? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of GOD.

And the Lord JESUS warned: Luke 21:34-36KJV:
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that Day(Lord's Day, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium) come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Lord JESUS said more: Matthew 13:40-43KJV
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the END of THIS WORLD. (1Corinthians 15:24-26)
41 The Son of man shall send forth His angels(mainly Michael), and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father(Revelation 11:15-18 and Daniel 12:3). Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.