These kinds of Christians are candidates for deception by Derek Prince

[Tenchi]

Consider David & Goliath. Help me understand what intellectual reasoning did David use to make the decision to go out on the field and fight Goliath? No reasoning or logic could have predicted David to be the victor. It was spur of the moment decision made out of anger and faith. David heard them mocking the God of the Israelites and said, why isn't anyone doing something about this?!

I think He was offended at them and thought as the agressor in his heart. No amount of any of man's earthly logic would say this is a good idea. But the only understanding that David even used, (Lol), was that he should pick up 5 stones instead of 1. Because David knew that Goliath had 4 brothers.

David wasn't thinking right. He was a youth and to go against a 13 ft tall giant that is a trained military soldier is an insane prospect. But his faith and Passion for the Lord rose up in Him...you can't talk about my God like that!

So David a risk with faith and trust and the Lord just Loves that stuff! So the Lord delivered Him.

I'm afraid this is all entirely conjecture, your imagined version of David's thoughts and feelings in his encounter with Goliath. I'm not terribly interested in discussing your imagination - especially when you're trying to draw conclusions about spiritual matters from it. Here's what David was actually thinking:

1 Samuel 17:34-37 (NASB)
34 But David said to Saul, "Your servant was tending his father's sheep. When a lion or a bear came and took a lamb from the flock,
35 I went out after him and attacked him, and rescued it from his mouth; and when he rose up against me, I seized him by his beard and struck him and killed him.
36 "Your servant has killed both the lion and the bear; and this uncircumcised Philistine will be like one of them, since he has taunted the armies of the living God."
37 And David said, "The LORD who delivered me from the paw of the lion and from the paw of the bear, He will deliver me from the hand of this Philistine." ...

1 Samuel 17:45-47 (NASB)
45 Then David said to the Philistine (Goliath), "You come to me with a sword, a spear, and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have taunted.
46 "This day the LORD will deliver you up into my hands, and I will strike you down and remove your head from you. And I will give the dead bodies of the army of the Philistines this day to the birds of the sky and the wild beasts of the earth, that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel,
47 and that all this assembly may know that the LORD does not deliver by sword or by spear; for the battle is the LORD'S and He will give you into our hands."

Do you see the line of reasoning in David's words and actions? I do:

God delivered me from bear and lion (both equal in power and danger to Goliath) and He will deliver me from this obnoxious, giant Philistine.

God will deliver Goliath into my hand that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel and that He doesn't deliver by human weapons but by His own power. The battle is the Lord's.

I don't see that David believed he was taking a risk in confronting Goliath. David sounded supremely confident in the power of God to preserve him and give him the victory over the profane Philistine giant. It was this confidence, born of his understanding of who God is, that moved David to kill Goliath.

So I'm not saying to totally abandon your intellect. We still have to live here on earth for a season. But the idea of setting ones intellect aside to trust in the Lord God is exceptional faith

Well, it seems to me both unnecessary and foolish to think that faith requires the sacrifice of one's intellect. Certainly, this isn't what Scripture teaches.

As a man thinks in His heart, so is he as man. So we must make some decisions from the heart.

I don't follow your reasoning here. Here's what God's word says about the man who looks to his heart in making decisions:

Proverbs 28:26 (NASB)
26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool...

Matthew 15:19-20 (NASB)
19 "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.
20 "These are the things which defile the man...

Jeremiah 17:9 (NASB)
9 "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

Did he? Maybe you're right.

No "maybe" about it. I gave you the actual passage that details this fact.

But Moses did not know that his staff would eat the other two staffs. Moses had to continue in his faith in God as he did not know what that outcome would be, not like it happened.

But Moses wasn't concerned about God supporting him but about Pharaoh and company believing Moses was sent by God. The three signs God gave Moses to use were more than sufficient to achieve what Moses desired which demonstrates God's willingness to accommodate and answer our doubt and skepticism and give us reason to believe in, and trust, Him.

 

[Edward]

I don't follow your reasoning here. Here's what God's word says about the man who looks to his heart in making decisions:

Proverbs 28:26 (NASB)
26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool...

Matthew 15:19-20 (NASB)
19 "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.
20 "These are the things which defile the man...

Jeremiah 17:9 (NASB)
9 "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

Thos are good and true scriptures. But scripture says a lot more about the heart than those three so you probably shouldn't think that you've covered all the bases yet in matters of the heart. I don't mind if you don't get this stuff. I have a hard time sometimes too so we can disagree, that's fine. It is convoluted I'll agree on that lol.

You sound like I have offended your sensibilities so I should go on to a different topic. I certainly don't want to argue about it with you.

 

[Edward]

Matters of the heart are actually pretty important in the grand scheme of things. I think it is unwise to read a few scriptures which confirm that man's heart is wicked and deceitful, and then go on to dismiss the heart altogether as some sort of unregenerate wicked device that is only an obstacle to man.

Havent we been instructed to walk in Love towards our neighbor just as we Love Jesus? How do you do that without a heart?

Have you not become born again? Did God place a new spirit within you? Have all things become new? Did the old man die? Doesn't scripture say that God will give us a new heart?

Have you ever had a change of heart about anything? Have you ever felt Love for anyone within your heart?

You can't reasonably stand pat on a wicked heart unless you are one who will not Love? Yes, It's wicked. It can't be trusted. But keep working towards developing a heart that the Lord would be proud of. When the Almighty God overshadows a man, saves his soul, gives the man a new spirit and a new heart, is that without any effect of the mans heart?

This earth is God's university of Brotherly Love. SO we have to apply ourselves to this development for spiritual growth. Having a new heart doesn't come overnight I think. But takes time and prayer and study. Over 13 years of (trying seriously) to walk in the Lord, a few starnge reactions from myself to certain situations have made my heart rise up in love and compassion. I didn't used to be like that. I used to chuckle at my wife for crying during a tear jerker chick flick. Then it happened to me one day! Whoa. It was spontaneous watching the Pasion of the Christ, first time. So I have been able to see the changes in my heart. I react differently than I used to in many situations.

You can call this stuff fiction if you want to, but you wouldn't be right because you know that you are a carrier of the Spirit of God and that He has told you to...go out and love! So, have a heart Brother. You can do it. The Lord will help you.

 

[Tenchi]

Thos are good and true scriptures. But scripture says a lot more about the heart than those three so you probably shouldn't think that you've covered all the bases yet in matters of the heart. I don't mind if you don't get this stuff. I have a hard time sometimes too so we can disagree, that's fine. It is convoluted I'll agree on that lol.

You sound like I have offended your sensibilities so I should go on to a different topic. I certainly don't want to argue about it with you.

I'm...direct and plain but please don't mistake this for taking offense. I have a very thick skin, having been online in these sorts of theological discussion forums for nearly twenty years now.

 

[D-D-W]

Scripture does say so. The man didn’t say he had a spiritual experience so he believes. He didn’t say his heart was touched and because he felt loved he believed. He said it was totally reasonable to believe. Faith based on reason is on the most solid of all grounds.

No - Paul plainly tells us that faith comes from hearing the SPOKEN word of God.

When John’s disciples asked Jesus if he were the Christ, Jesus answered with rational evidence for them to THINK about.

But what did He tell Peter when He asked His own disciples the same thing? Peter responded:

Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

And our Lord said this:

17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

THAT is where actual faith comes from.

 

[Edward]

No - Paul plainly tells us that faith comes from hearing the SPOKEN word of God.

That's a very good point Brother.
If you go back to the original language in that passage it translates to "Rhema" which is the spoken word of God.

People easily mistake it by not making a distinction between "Logos" and "Rhema". "Word" of God is translated lots of times in scripture as Logos, and also lots of times as Rhema. SO when that word pops up in scripture you should take care to understand which word of God that it is referring to.

Rhemas are alive! Remas are the Holy Spirit illuminating the (logos) as you read it. Something will jump off the page and speak directly to you about circumstances in your life. You all know what I mean, right?

I remember one time, I had some sort of question that I felt I should pray about and so I did for 2 weeks! And the Lord was silent! Then one day 2 weeks later, I pick up my bible to read and I flip it open to the exact chapter and verse that was my answer to the question. SO that was Holy Spirit, giving me a Rhema. He basically said, it's in the Bible Edward. But I didn't hear Him so He most graciously, showed me where it was at!

Rhemas are real. And not every rhema that I have ever received is in the logos. So thpse type people who say if it isn't in the Bible then I don't believe it, are spiritually safe in that position. But are actualy missing out on Rhemas. Rhemas are God talking directly to our heart.

 

[Tenchi]

Thos are good and true scriptures. But scripture says a lot more about the heart than those three so you probably shouldn't think that you've covered all the bases yet in matters of the heart.

Can you think of any countering or qualifying verses concerning the heart that allows for your "consult your heart" idea? That's a popular slogan in the World, but I don't see it echoed in God's word.

I don't mind if you don't get this stuff.

It's not that I don't "get it"; it's that God's word doesn't agree with it.

Matters of the heart are actually pretty important in the grand scheme of things. I think it is unwise to read a few scriptures which confirm that man's heart is wicked and deceitful, and then go on to dismiss the heart altogether as some sort of unregenerate wicked device that is only an obstacle to man.

Well, the "heart" is the seat of a person's identity, desires and most fundamental beliefs and as such it is very important in the Christian worldview. But God's word says my heart is my enemy until it is brought under His transformative control. Certainly, Scripture indicates that it is itself the proper guide to spiritual living (Psalms 119:105, 130; 2 Timothy 3:16-17), not the heart of a person.

Havent we been instructed to walk in Love towards our neighbor just as we Love Jesus? How do you do that without a heart?

You do that in manifestation, not of yourself, but of the Holy Spirit who is love, who dwells within you. As a bond-slave of Jesus Christ, you are allowing yourself to be merely a conduit through which he communicates himself. This does not require your heart, but God's.

Have you not become born again? Did God place a new spirit within you? Have all things become new? Did the old man die? Doesn't scripture say that God will give us a new heart?

Can you find one instance in all of the New Testament where this is stated?

You can't reasonably stand pat on a wicked heart unless you are one who will not Love? Yes, It's wicked. It can't be trusted. But keep working towards developing a heart that the Lord would be proud of.

No, the only heart of which the Lord is proud is His own perfect, holy heart. In-and-of yourself, you are only capable of producing more of yourself. Like begets like, brother. Only by God giving you His heart in the Person of the Holy Spirit can you ever hope to be pleasing and acceptable to God. He desires perfection, after all (Matthew 5:48), and the only place perfection is found is in Himself. This is why you and I must be "in Christ," clothed in his perfect righteousness and cleansed of the stain of our sin by his blood; it is he - and only he - who makes us acceptable to God. The idea, then, that you must work towards developing a heart the Lord would be proud of mistakes very profoundly what it is to walk with God and by what means.

This earth is God's university of Brotherly Love. SO we have to apply ourselves to this development for spiritual growth. Having a new heart doesn't come overnight I think.

God's way up is down. As we go low before Him in humility and submission, He lifts us up, filling us with Himself.

1 Peter 5:6
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

Romans 12:1
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

James 4:6-7, 10
6 ...Therefore it says, "GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE."
7 Submit therefore to God...

10 Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you.

God's way is life through death. You must die that the life of Christ might flourish in you.

Matthew 16:24-25
24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.
25 "For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

John 12:24-25
24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
25 "He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it to life eternal.

Galatians 2:20
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

There is no room in God's "upside-down kingdom" for Self-effort, for us striving to do for God. Instead, God would remove us from His way so that He may do for us what we cannot do for ourselves: please Him.

You can call this stuff fiction if you want to, but you wouldn't be right because you know that you are a carrier of the Spirit of God and that He has told you to...go out and love! So, have a heart Brother. You can do it. The Lord will help you.

Not knowing anything of my life at all, it might be better if you didn't offer these kinds of exhortations that imply that I haven't been loving others and that I don't "have a heart." Honestly, if you knew the content of my life, I think you'd be very embarrassed at having exhorted me as you have above. I have walked with God for just shy of fifty years now, serving Him and my spiritual family in love in many ways throughout that time.

 

[Edward]

Can you find one instance in all of the New Testament where this is stated?

Hebrews 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:.../

But God's word says my heart is my enemy until it is brought under His transformative control.

That's kind of what I said. Ok, how long have you been a Christian? Do you believe that God gives you a new heart or transforms your heart over time? In the time that you've been a Christian, can you see changes within yourself.

If you go to Heartmath.org You could spend a month there reading abuot the heart. From man's and science point of view. They now say that the heart thinks. It has many of the same type cells that the brain has and the signals it sends out are more powerful signals than from the brain. They have tested and measured this wirelessly and they can pick up the heart from further away than they can the brain. So there's science behind this too.

I'll be the first to admit that before a person gets born again, their heart can't be trusted. But after having received God's transformative power (or a new heart) we either learn to love or not and consider the heart wicked.

Are you the same man you used to be? I'm not. I have a capacity for compassion and Love that I did not possess before. Do you have Love in your heart for your wife and family? I'm guessing yes, so how can you say your heart is wicked now? Have you ever did something extra special for your wife, just to show your Love for her?

So was that a mistake? I don't think we're supposed to ignore our heart. All of your prayers are based on the intentions of your heart. Cultivate your heart.

Why New Testament only? I can give you prolly 20 from the old testament, lol. Like Guard your heart diligently.

If God don't want us to use our heart, then why does He tell us to guard it diligently?

 

[Edward]

No, the only heart of which the Lord is proud is His own perfect, holy heart. In-and-of yourself, you are only capable of producing more of yourself.

You are describing the choices we make. Everything is about our free will choise here. The carnal mind may speak to you, the heart may nudge your brain, and then what? We decide our choice.

I'm not sure I understand why you say never make a decision from the heart. Do you always seek to do mean things to people? Always want revenge for being slighted in some way? Is that the dark heart that you have? Do you have family? How long has it been since you showed any of them love?
I'm guessing not very long ago! Hey, you do make decisions from the heart sometimes! God is Love, and if Love even a little bit, that's a gift from God. The Lord dwells in us. Near our heart is what I've heard but havent confirmed that yet.

I'm not sure if you even believe that our heart is transformed by God and as we are the conduit, God will flow His Love and His heart through us? We must allow Him and walk in the Spirit. Then you can trust your heart.

 

[Edward]

Like begets like, brother. Only by God giving you His heart in the Person of the Holy Spirit can you ever hope to be pleasing and acceptable to God. He desires perfection, after all (Matthew 5:48), and the only place perfection is found is in Himself. This is why you and I must be "in Christ," clothed in his perfect righteousness and cleansed of the stain of our sin by his blood; it is he - and only he - who makes us acceptable to God. The idea, then, that you must work towards developing a heart the Lord would be proud of mistakes very profoundly what it is to walk with God and by what means.

You seem to be starting to presume quite a bit about my beliefs. that I haven't said. Of course it is Christs blood that makes us acceptable to God. I never said to the contrary.

You're just not understanding what I am saying.
What is supposed to happen when we confess and ask forgiveness and give our life to the Lord? Go home and sit down to wait on God? No. We are to occupy. To be as the bereans and search them scriptures daily, press in to the Lord and we begin to evolve spiritually. To witness for Christ and help gather souls. To seek the Lord in His logos, and in His Rhemas, and our prayers. And to Love God with all our heart, strength, mind, and soul. and to love our Brother as ourselves.

So where's the wickedness in the mans heart who does that?
I used to have a wicked heart. I have a new heart now, and I do trust it but only in Christ

We are tripartite beings. Spirit-soul-body. The body is carnal and at enmity with God. The soul is the mind-will-emotions and born into sin therefore wicked. The spirit was dead in sin,

I have been born again. I have been given a new spirit wich is alive and can not sin. The soul is carnal and always sides with the flesh. The spirit is in direct communication with the Holy Spirit so is holy. I guess the heart is sort of in the middle and is usually wicked, but can be turned righteous over time if we continue to cling to the Lord. So no wonder we are instructed to guard our new heart diligently.

I am not saying that I have a pure heart. But my heart is more righteous than it is evil, thanks to the grace of God. But you can ignore your heart if you want to. It is your choice.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No - Paul plainly tells us that faith comes from hearing the SPOKEN word of God.

So the deaf cannot be saved? How come Jesus commended the Roman centurion who had heard the “spoken word of God” that we read of? Jesus said he had great faith. You say he didn’t have any. See the problem?

But what did He tell Peter when He asked His own disciples the same thing? Peter responded:

Matthew 16:16
Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

And our Lord said this:

17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Peter didn’t say, “yes I heard the spoken word of God.” Did all the others who heard the spoken word of God believe?

THAT is where actual faith comes from.

“Hearing” isn’t restricted to a function auditory system.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

D-D-W, the problem is you’re limiting the possible channels of communication God can use and so will have scriptures that don’t fit your theology.

 

[D-D-W]

So the deaf cannot be saved? How come Jesus commended the Roman centurion who had heard the “spoken word of God” that we read of? Jesus said he had great faith. You say he didn’t have any. See the problem?

Peter didn’t say, “yes I heard the spoken word of God.” Did all the others who heard the spoken word of God believe?

“Hearing” isn’t restricted to a function auditory system.

OF course the deaf can hear God speak. It is not a function of the physical ears.
The Roman officer had something happen that told him that Jesus could heal his servant. It would not have been mental logic since that would dictate that no such healing could happen. And our Lord told Peter he did not receive the truth of our Lord being the Messiah thru natural means but thru supernatural revelation from God (hearing God's voice).

As to "all the others," clearly NO. In fact David tells us in Psalm 95 "Today if you hear His voice do not harden your heart," which is then quoted by the author of Hebrews 3 times.

When God speaks, you have the choice: either accept His saying/revelation and it produces faith; or reject it and it produces a hard heart.

 

[Edward]

So the deaf cannot be saved? How come Jesus commended the Roman centurion who had heard the “spoken word of God” that we read of? Jesus said he had great faith. You say he didn’t have any. See the problem?

So do you think that has only one way to talk to people? He didn't say the centurion did not have any faith. God can speak to us many ways. He can speak to you through your heart. He can speak to you through your conscience. He can put thoughts directly into your mind. So I think you may be being unfair to God by trying to limit His abilities.

 

[Edward]

“Hearing” isn’t restricted to a function auditory system.

Romans 1:
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:.../

He did not say, except for the deaf or blind.

 

[Tenchi]

Hebrews 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:.../

And where does this verse say that God has given such people a "new heart"? If one puts notes of new information about, say, mathematics, in an old mathematics textbook, is the old textbook made new?

That's kind of what I said. Ok, how long have you been a Christian? Do you believe that God gives you a new heart or transforms your heart over time? In the time that you've been a Christian, can you see changes within yourself.

Absolutely. More and faster changes, as my time walking with Him has lengthened. How about you?

I'll be the first to admit that before a person gets born again, their heart can't be trusted. But after having received God's transformative power (or a new heart) we either learn to love or not and consider the heart wicked.

Yes, God affects changes in us - including in the character/desires/thoughts of our hearts. But this is a progressive business, our hearts conforming over time to God's truth and will; it is not an instantaneous thing, allowing us to resort to our own hearts as a proper guide spiritually immediately upon conversion.

Are you the same man you used to be? I'm not. I have a capacity for compassion and Love that I did not possess before. Do you have Love in your heart for your wife and family? I'm guessing yes, so how can you say your heart is wicked now? Have you ever did something extra special for your wife, just to show your Love for her?

Like you (and every other born-again person) I am a work in progress; I'm being transformed through a process, the heart of God replacing my own wicked, human heart, His desires, truth and character reflected more and more in and through me. God is not interested in reforming my heart, in making me better. He intends I should "die" that the life of Christ might live in me. See my earlier posts. I'm too foul, too rotten, to be improved, you see, as you are, and so God has opted to replace you and me altogether with the Person of Christ.

Romans 8:5-8 (NASB)
5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 7:14 (NASB)
14 ...I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

Romans 7:18 (NASB)
18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh...

This is how every lost, flesh-minded person is: incorrigibly hostile toward God. ( See also: Titus 3:3; Ephesians 2:1-3; Colossians 1:21; Romans 7:) And so, God has to put to death our "Old Man" (Romans 6:6) that Christ might be manifested in our hearts and lives.

Romans 8:29 (NASB)
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

2 Corinthians 4:10-11 (NASB)
10 always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.
11 For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.

Colossians 3:3-4 (NASB)
3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

So, God isn't in the business of reforming you, of "buffing up" your heart, but of giving you new life in Himself, in Christ, putting to death the person you were without Him, so that more and more, Christ is revealed in you. (Romans 6:1-11)

So was that a mistake? I don't think we're supposed to ignore our heart. All of your prayers are based on the intentions of your heart. Cultivate your heart.

No, yield your heart to God, who will give you the heart of Christ instead.

I'm not sure I understand why you say never make a decision from the heart. Do you always seek to do mean things to people?

??? It doesn't follow from my remarks that, to make decisions guided by God's word and Spirit rather than your heart, means I'm reduced to "doing mean things to people." Instead, God's biblical prescription for a holy, Christ-honoring life that I've laid out for you in this thread leads to a life filled, not with my best efforts to mimic Jesus, but with the Fruit of the Spirit. (Galatians 5:22-23)

Hey, you do make decisions from the heart sometimes!

No, not from my heart; from the control and power of the Holy Spirit. (Philippians 2:13)

I'm not sure if you even believe that our heart is transformed by God and as we are the conduit, God will flow His Love and His heart through us? We must allow Him and walk in the Spirit. Then you can trust your heart.

No, then you can trust more and more in the Holy Spirit.

What is supposed to happen when we confess and ask forgiveness and give our life to the Lord? Go home and sit down to wait on God? No. We are to occupy.

Occupy by what means? Your own self-effort, doing for God as best you can? Absolutely not. That's the flesh at work and it will only produce corruption (Galatians 6:7-8) We are to wait upon God, upon His Spirit, to move us to holy living by His power, not try to produce by our own power what we think God wants from us. Again, consider Philippians 2:13, or Philippians 1:6, or Ephesians 3:16, or 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 and so on.

The body is carnal and at enmity with God.

That's not what Paul wrote, actually.

"The flesh" refers, in part, to a state of mind occupied with the impulses of the flesh and that is sensual in its orientation generally, not only to the phyiscal body.

Romans 8:5-8 (NASB)
5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

I have been born again. I have been given a new spirit wich is alive and can not sin. The soul is carnal and always sides with the flesh. The spirit is in direct communication with the Holy Spirit so is holy.

I would argue that the "new spirit" you speak of is the Holy Spirit, not some new feature separate from himself that he adds to you. If the Spirit were to leave you, all of your spiritual life would instantly cease. As Scripture says, he is our Life Source, spiritually.

So no wonder we are instructed to guard our new heart diligently.

Where in the New Testament is such a command given to born-again believers?

I am not saying that I have a pure heart. But my heart is more righteous than it is evil, thanks to the grace of God. But you can ignore your heart if you want to. It is your choice.

I have a much better - a perfect, guide, in fact - who is the Holy Spirit, opening to me the eternal truth of God's word.

 

[D-D-W]

And where does this verse say that God has given such people a "new heart"? If one puts notes of new information about, say, mathematics, in an old mathematics textbook, is the old textbook made new?

It does not need to say it there because it already said it here:

Ezekiel 36:26
Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

That is speaking of the New Covenant.

 

[Tenchi]

It does not need to say it there because it already said it here:

Ezekiel 36:26
Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

That is speaking of the New Covenant.

Yes, I know. And the "new heart"? What is it, exactly? How is it instantiated in the born-again believer? As far as I can see, the quotation you offered from Ezekiel doesn't do anything to fundamentally prevent or alter what I've explained so far to Edward.

 

[Edward]

Yes, I know. And the "new heart"? What is it, exactly? How is it instantiated in the born-again believer? As far as I can see, the quotation you offered from Ezekiel doesn't do anything to fundamentally prevent or alter what I've explained so far to Edward.

I'm sorry that you don't get this Brother, But this is actually like, Christianity 101.

Revelation 19:7

Let us be glad and rejoice, and let us give honor to him. For the time has come for the wedding feast of the Lamb, and his bride has prepared herself.../

Romans
12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. ../

The Bride prepares herself. We get a new heart but (again) it doesn't happen instantaneously. It's a process which takes time because of all of the worldly contamination you have fed to it your entire life.

Be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind. That's up to us to do that through His word and Prayer. He gave us the new heart but it isnt finsished all at once for us. You (should) want to draw closer to God so you pray and go to His word and read it more and pray more and meditate on it a lot. Then one day you will notice like I did, I didn;t used to be like that. I don't want to contaminate my new heart so I give up worldly ways and spend the time in the service or study of the Lord instead. This keeps God on your mind and heart

I think I'm done here. You havent been able to grasp what I am saying and hardly ever answer any questions. And your last post to me? All of your conclusions were wrong as far as I am concerned. So you are free to believe as you wish.

 

[Edward]

Where in the New Testament is such a command given to born-again believers?

What do you have against the old testament anyway? That is 2/3 of your Bible. If you only believe 1/3 of your Bible, then that may just inhibit your spiritual growth.

You have no use for the OT? WOw.
All of the Proverbs are in there!
All of the Psalms are in there!