These kinds of Christians are candidates for deception by Derek Prince

[D-D-W]

Yes, I know. And the "new heart"? What is it, exactly? How is it instantiated in the born-again believer? As far as I can see, the quotation you offered from Ezekiel doesn't do anything to fundamentally prevent or alter what I've explained so far to Edward.

You asked where that verse said a "new heart." I showed you that the promise was already extant and did not need to be repeated.

As to your additional question, "How is it instantiated [what ever that is] in the born-again believer;" it was not part of what I was replying to. I am not sure the answer to that question is ever spelled out in scripture; and if it is not, then there is not really a need for us to know it.

 

[Tenchi]

I'm sorry that you don't get this Brother, But this is actually like, Christianity 101.

Um...right. Christianity 101. The irony in your remark here is almost painful.

The Bride prepares herself. We get a new heart but (again) it doesn't happen instantaneously. It's a process which takes time because of all of the worldly contamination you have fed to it your entire life.

Yes.

I think I'm done here. You havent been able to grasp what I am saying and hardly ever answer any questions. And your last post to me? All of your conclusions were wrong as far as I am concerned. So you are free to believe as you wish.

I've grasped perfectly well what you've written; I just don't agree with it. These aren't the same thing, Edward. I think many of your conclusions are wrong and I've explained why pretty comprehensively. Have you refuted or defeated by explanations? Not so far.

But, if you wish to retire from this discussion, that's perfectly fine, of course. It's been...stimulating, so thanks.

 

[Tenchi]

You asked where that verse said a "new heart." I showed you that the promise was already extant and did not need to be repeated.

I had asked Edward if he knew of a New Testament statement that used the phrase "new heart" because I wanted to see what the depth of his Scripture knowledge was.

As to your additional question, "How is it instantiated [what ever that is] in the born-again believer;" it was not part of what I was replying to. I am not sure the answer to that question is ever spelled out in scripture; and if it is not, then there is not really a need for us to know it.

I think it is spelled out in Scripture and so very much worth understanding.

 

[Edward]

Have you refuted or defeated by explanations?

Answer all the questions I asked you in my posts and I'd be happy to discuss this further with you. But you wont.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

OF course the deaf can hear God speak. It is not a function of the physical ears.
The Roman officer had something happen that told him that Jesus could heal his servant. It would not have been mental logic since that would dictate that no such healing could happen. And our Lord told Peter he did not receive the truth of our Lord being the Messiah thru natural means but thru supernatural revelation from God (hearing God's voice).

It seems that the intellectual road to faith is not one that you acknowledge as being possible. CS Lewis came to faith through the intellectual road. He said it is not common and not easy but he came to a place where intellectually he had to believe. All other options were full of holes. The Roman office intellectually thought Jesus could heal. There is no record of "something happening" other than he used his God given mind. Jesus constantly encouraged people to think. We are, in fact, told to love God with our minds. It is as valuable to Him as loving with the heart.

As to "all the others," clearly NO. In fact David tells us in Psalm 95 "Today if you hear His voice do not harden your heart," which is then quoted by the author of Hebrews 3 times.

When God speaks, you have the choice: either accept His saying/revelation and it produces faith; or reject it and it produces a hard heart.

This is true and shows wisdom on your part. I have found this to be true in scripture and in the lives of real people. When GOd speaks, a man is called to make a decision and you have laid out the consequences very nicely. I have seen others reject the correction of God in their lives and they grew hard and even what understanding they had was taken away. It was quite sad and yet amazing to see this over and over again. A man is confronted with input that does not match his chosen position and the input is God correcting his thinking.

I have taken to listening to Derek Prince and he said something quite interesting. He said on more than one occasion that he did not believe XYZ and then was confronted with the fact that XYZ was happening before his eyes. He adjusted his theology according to the truth presented to him. I think that is the reason the man was given such vast and deep understanding. He was prepared to abandon his theology when presented with facts that did not fit. That is my experience as well. The man who has the same theology his whole walk has learned nothing at all from God.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It does not need to say it there because it already said it here:

Ezekiel 36:26
Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

That is speaking of the New Covenant.

This is a promise with conditions, as most of God's promises are. While we cannot change ourselves but need the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit WILL NOT change us without our cooperation. It is foolish to insist God is changing us when neither we nor anyone around us see any change. When we stand before Him, he, more than anyone, will see if any change was made. Changing our character is not a matter of faith. Either we are cooperating and it is happening or we are not and it is not. This is why we see Christians of quite varying character. Some obey and are being changed (temper dampened, kindness increased, unforgiveness banned, etc.) and some trust God is changing them without them have to deny themselves any unholy pleasure (like insulting others) they feel like engaging in.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Yes, I know. And the "new heart"? What is it, exactly? How is it instantiated in the born-again believer? As far as I can see, the quotation you offered from Ezekiel doesn't do anything to fundamentally prevent or alter what I've explained so far to Edward.

This varies from person to person. Some find the anger they had against others vanished. They have love where they had anger before. Some do not find anything much changed beyond knowing they are forgiven and the cleansing that accompanies that (you feel clean in side.) But the new heart comes with cooperation with the Holy Spirit. Let me put it this was, the gifts of the Holy Spirit are given and enable service (faith for something, healing, teaching, preaching, and so on.) but the fruit of the Holy Spirit are seen in the character of the person. This is where the new heart shows. One is more patient, one forgives offenses, one is kind towards those who are unkind, one thinks of others and not just the self, and more. These are referred to as character and that is what God works on, but not in our sleep.