[_ Old Earth _] Thirty-Year Secret Leads to Evidence of Worldwide Flood

[VaultZero4Me]

The problem is you believe the present is the key to the past.

The problem is many YEC's are resorting to this to struggle to hang onto their theories.

Why would you (naturally) assume the past was dramatically different without any physical evidence? Because it leaves hopes for YEC? Any other reason besides that?

 

[Patashu]

We can observe how they form today, and we can make tests as to which conditions are required for them to form.

The problem is you believe the present is the key to the past.

Uh, it is.
If we observe how something happens now we can logically assume that the same process only yesterday would accomplish the same thing.

 

[John]

The problem is you believe the present is the key to the past.

The problem is many YEC's are resorting to this to struggle to hang onto their theories.

Why would you (naturally) assume the past was dramatically different without any physical evidence? Because it leaves hopes for YEC? Any other reason besides that?

Because if its not then the Bible is incorrect and many aspects of my faith would be shaken. God said the flood would destroy the world and it did so there is no evidence of how the world was before the flood, but plenty of evidence of the flood itself.

 

[VaultZero4Me]

The problem is you believe the present is the key to the past.

The problem is many YEC's are resorting to this to struggle to hang onto their theories.

Why would you (naturally) assume the past was dramatically different without any physical evidence? Because it leaves hopes for YEC? Any other reason besides that?

Because if its not then the Bible is incorrect and many aspects of my faith would be shaken. God said the flood would destroy the world and it did so there is no evidence of how the world was before the flood, but plenty of evidence of the flood itself.

There are many Christians that do not believe in a world wide flood and have no problem reconciling it, but of course that is a theological debate.

There is no physical evidence for a world wide flood. There is only complete misinterpretation of evidence or holding to claims that lack any evidence.

The only evidence for a flood is certain interpretations of Genesis.

 

[John]

There is only complete misinterpretation of evidence or holding to claims that lack any evidence.

2 way street :wink:

 

[freeway]

VaultZero4Me says:
There are many Christians that do not believe in a world wide flood and have no problem reconciling it, but of course that is a theological debate.

Yes also there is a lot of Christians that believe what the bible says about the flood and wonder where these other so called Christians get to pick and choose from the bible what to believe or not..
and there is a lot of people that do not believe in Jesus, and have no problem with that, but 1 second after death they will wish to God they did............... 8-) 8-)

 

[Orion]

Yes. . . . . . . bring on the "scare tactics" when you side is facing a losing debate. :-?

Can you all not see what you are actually saying? These guys aren't saying this stuff out of "rebellion". They are saying these things because SCIENCE has dictated how things form, such as limestone, and if it messes up your idea of what YOU think God said, . . . .based upon the word of sheep herders from several thousand years ago, . . . . then those same guys are automatically "going to be surprised when they die". Oh yeah, . . . .there will be some surprises for sure! . . . . . . But not necessarily how YOU think the surprising will go.

If it contradicts the world that God made, then don't you think that perhaps, . . . it DIDN'T actually happen? :-?

 

[John]

Evolutions mascot

 

[Free]

Please refrain from flaming. It is not an acceptable response in debate. Deal with the points being made.

Thanks.

 

[John]

Please refrain from flaming. It is not an acceptable response in debate. Deal with the points being made.

Thanks.

Sorry Free, i had "the urge" :shocked!:

 

[BobRyan]

Yes. . . . . . . bring on the "scare tactics" when you side is facing a losing debate. :-?

Can you all not see what you are actually saying? These guys aren't saying this stuff out of "rebellion". They are saying these things because SCIENCE has dictated how things form, such as they limestone, and if it messes up your idea of what YOU think God said, . . . .

Your OWN atheist darwinist icons are saying "the theory of evolution has done more HARM than Good" -- your OWN atheist darwinist icons are admitting that "the STORIES" about "HOW ONE THING CAME FROM ANOTHER" are just "stories easy enough to tell but they are NOT SCIENCE" your OWN atheist darwinist icons are the ones saying that evolutionism is conveying "anti-knowledge" -- why do you blame what THEY SAY on Bible believing christians as if WE are the only ones who see these glaring facts?

When then do you go on to pretend that the Bible in anyway supports the storytelling that EVEN YOUR OWN atheist darwinists admit are "not science"?

At some point atheist darwinist devotees need to rely less on fervor smoke and fury and more on facts science and reason.

Bob

 

[freeway]

"Orion"Yes. . . . . . . bring on the "scare tactics" when you side is facing a losing debate. :-?

Scare tactics,, did they scare you? losing the debate, never, I see it as, you can never prove evolution, never, never, never.....

Can you all not see what you are actually saying?

What I'm saying is, there was a flood, there was a garden of Eden where satan tricked Eve, Poor Adam just eat because EVE said it was good... Jesus is the only way.. I'm a creationist, I believe the universe and everything in it was created by God Around 6000 to 12000 thousand years, not 4.5 billion which evolution needs to make it's religion work... did I miss anything?

These guys aren't saying this stuff out of "rebellion". They are saying these things because SCIENCE has dictated how things form, such as they limestone, and if it messes up your idea of what YOU think God said,

out of rebellion... sure. If it has to do with God, or against their way of how God should have done it, well they get upset.SCIENCE has not and can not say how things where formed... they can guess and have guessed and missed it by a long shot.(insert bible references here).. as for me.. I just try to tell them what it says in the bible.. 6 day of creation,,, no where does it say 20 billion yrs. isn't that now the distance across the universe, well my question would be then.... whats past that... do you know?..........I do........God!!

. . . .based upone the word of sheep herders from several thousand years ago, . . . . then those same guys are automatically "going to be surprised when they die". Oh yeah, . . . .there will be some surprises for sure! . . . . . . But not necessarily how YOU think the surprising will go.

some sheep herders? isn't if funny how God never use mighty men.. Or how Jesus never used people of high esteem... He used just plain old fellows............like sheep herders. umh...

same guys?................what?............the sheep herders?.......what?
I think the sheep herders, fell to their knees and worshiped the Creator of the universe....

If it contradicts the world that God made, than don't you think that perhaps, . . . it DIDN'T actually happen? :-?

do you mean evolution, or creation... BIG difference there. the religion of evolution says that we came form... nothing...if you take the whole concept to the farthest edge....
But creation says we came...or was created by a loving creator for him to love and receive love..
Also a little off topic...........but anyway.. Did you know that Christianity is the "only" religion where their (my) God is working to get man to him...(salvation thur Jesus). every other religion is man working to be acceptable to their god... 8-) 8-) 8-)

 

[jwu]

We can observe how they form today, and we can make tests as to which conditions are required for them to form.

The problem is you believe the present is the key to the past.

Furthermore we can test if the physical conditions were in the past as they are today. E.g. changes in the physical constants would leave observable traces, e.g. in the spectra of stars. It would take an amazing coincidence for all of those changes to apparently cancel each other out, so we don't recognize them.

Do you propose that this is what happened?

 

[VaultZero4Me]

VaultZero4Me says:
There are many Christians that do not believe in a world wide flood and have no problem reconciling it, but of course that is a theological debate.

Yes also there is a lot of Christians that believe what the bible says about the flood and wonder where these other so called Christians get to pick and choose from the bible what to believe or not..
and there is a lot of people that do not believe in Jesus, and have no problem with that, but 1 second after death they will wish to God they did............... 8-) 8-)

My point was that what you believe the Bible is saying may not be actually what it says.

"there is a lot of Christians that believe what the bible says about the flood"

You just tied your interpretation of the Bible as being the ultimate truth. That is fallacy. Many Christians who studied the context of the flood, and the original Hebrew it was written in do not come to your same conclusion.

You are implying that the Christians who do not believe in a global flood as cherry picking and being hypocrites. You are judging their personal faith because you interpret a story in 2 different ways. And this document isn't even central to the faith.

"and there is a lot of people that do not believe in Jesus, and have no problem with that, but 1 second after death they will wish to God they did"

How did this have anything to do with any of the previous posts? Why are you talking about hell and people burning when no one else is? Seems way off point. Are you trying to tie that back into people who study geology and realize no flood happened?

 

[Orion]

Yes. . . . . . . bring on the "scare tactics" when you side is facing a losing debate. :-?

Can you all not see what you are actually saying? These guys aren't saying this stuff out of "rebellion". They are saying these things because SCIENCE has dictated how things form, such as they limestone, and if it messes up your idea of what YOU think God said, . . . .

Your OWN atheist darwinist icons are saying "the theory of evolution has done more HARM than Good" -- your OWN atheist darwinist icons are admitting that "the STORIES" about "HOW ONE THING CAME FROM ANOTHER" are just "stories easy enough to tell but they are NOT SCIENCE" your OWN atheist darwinist icons are the ones saying that evolutionism is conveying "anti-knowledge" -- why do you blame what THEY SAY on Bible believing christians as if WE are the only ones who see these glaring facts?

When then do you go on to pretend that the Bible in anyway supports the storytelling that EVEN YOUR OWN atheist darwinists admit are "not science"?

At some point atheist darwinist devotees need to rely less on fervor smoke and fury and more on facts science and reason.

Bob

I'm not an atheist darwinist, Bob.

 

[Orion]

Scare tactics,, did they scare you? losing the debate, never, I see it as, you can never prove evolution, never, never, never.....

No, they don't scare me because I don't believe in the doctrine of Hell, as fundamental Christianity does. And yes, you are not winning the debate on "a world wide flood". There is vastely more information that it never occured!

What I'm saying is, there was a flood, there was a garden of Eden where satan tricked Eve, Poor Adam just eat because EVE said it was good... Jesus is the only way.. I'm a creationist, I believe the universe and everything in it was created by God Around 6000 to 12000 thousand years, not 4.5 billion which evolution needs to make it's religion work... did I miss anything?

No, there was no "world wide flood". The "Garden of Eden" story was metaphorical (unless you believe the Sunday school kids story you were expected to believe as literal, with all the "female bashing" of "the poor man was duped by a woman"). The universe it FAR older than the time frame that you gave, unless you believe that God chooses to fool everyone on the earth when they see the light from stars and galaxies millions of light years away. You are missing a lot if you believe these things to be literal and not metaphorical, as they were meant to me.

out of rebellion... sure. If it has to do with God, or against their way of how God should have done it, well they get upset.SCIENCE has not and can not say how things where formed... they can guess and have guessed and missed it by a long shot.(insert bible references here).. as for me.. I just try to tell them what it says in the bible.. 6 day of creation,,, no where does it say 20 billion yrs. isn't that now the distance across the universe, well my question would be then.... whats past that... do you know?..........I do........God!!

They have no religious notions, . . . they follow the scientific method. If it differs from an ancient book, . . . . then how would that be "rebellion on thier part"? Because we CAN see stars at great distances from us, that destroys you notion of even your greatest frame of time, 12,000 years old. Did you know that the other side of our own Milkyway galaxy is older than that? The distance it took the light from those outer stars (on the other side of the galaxy) to reach our eyes (aided or unaided) is roughly 100,000 light years. That is JUST our galaxy. Any lit object that we can see, beyond your 12,000 years (if YOU are right) is a lie placed there on purpose by God. . . . anything beyond that distance would be faslse information, and would be completely UNNECESSARY. The 6 day creation of metephorical.

some sheep herders? isn't if funny how God never use mighty men.. Or how Jesus never used people of high esteem... He used just plain old fellows............like sheep herders. umh...

same guys?................what?............the sheep herders?.......what?
I think the sheep herders, fell to their knees and worshiped the Creator of the universe....

Sheep herders, . . . . .as in . . . uneducated in anything pertaining to how life functions.

do you mean evolution, or creation... BIG difference there. the religion of evolution says that we came form... nothing...if you take the whole concept to the farthest edge....
But creation says we came...or was created by a loving creator for him to love and receive love..
Also a little off topic...........but anyway.. Did you know that Christianity is the "only" religion where their (my) God is working to get man to him...(salvation thur Jesus). every other religion is man working to be acceptable to their god... 8-) 8-) 8-)

No, IF you are correct, people were created to either love God or be killed and spend an eternity in hell. There's no REAL love under those conditions. Part of the "scare tactics" I mentioned earlier. The "protection racket" set up by the mob comes to mind.

And what are you talking about in that last sentence??? That is the main focus of Christianity. . . . that you have to do these certain steps in order TO be acceptable by God!!! Don't even try to tell me that I'm wrong about that because you know it is completely the truth! :-?

 

[John]

No, they don't scare me because I don't believe in the doctrine of Hell, as fundamental Christianity does. And yes, you are not winning the debate on "a world wide flood". There is vastely more information that it never occured!

I hope you wake up man.

There is so much evidence for a world wide flood its crazy.

No, there was no "world wide flood". The "Garden of Eden" story was metaphorical (unless you believe the Sunday school kids story you were expected to believe as literal, with all the "female bashing" of "the poor man was duped by a woman"). The universe it FAR older than the time frame that you gave, unless you believe that God chooses to fool everyone on the earth when they see the light from stars and galaxies millions of light years away. You are missing a lot if you believe these things to be literal and not metaphorical, as they were meant to me.

On what ground do you think its metaphorical?

God never fooled anyone, you have fooled yourself the Bible makes this clear.




Your ignorance may be bliss for me, but i am afraid it won't be for you.

 

[freeway]

The Very Best Trick Satan ever pulled off was to make people think "He" never existed.. don't let him beat you at his game..................

 

[Orion]

I hope you wake up man.

Again, . . . with the scare tactics. You make God out to be very petty when you resort to "do what he wants or suffer the consequences".

There is so much evidence for a world wide flood its crazy.

Please list this evidence!!

On what ground do you think its metaphorical?

It is metaphorical because it is supposed to be. It is a highly stylized and completely incomplete story of how, IF true, that account would have gone in the first place. You have two people told not to "eat of a magical tree", even though they had no knowledge of what it meant to do either good OR evil, yet they were punished for something they were oblivious to, . . . unless they DID know "good and evil" all along, and there actually wasn't a "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" at all, making the story false to begin with. You have an angel (supposedly Satan) who, for some odd reason, puts on a reptilian outfit, and WITH God's foreknowledge, temps Eve. This causes God to make this species of reptiles loose their appendeges as a punishment (as if they were all guilty of being used by an angelic being). . . . . even though snakes have a great advantage being limbless in catching prey. . . . . . . . . do I even need to go on?

Yeah, completely metaphorical of what events actually took place.

God never fooled anyone, you have fooled yourself the Bible makes this clear.

Your ignorance may be bliss for me, but i am afraid it won't be for you.

Once again. . . . . the scare tactics.

Of course God won't fool anyone. The universe is far older than 6,000 - 12,000 years old! No problem there. It's only a problem for YEC who MUST limit the earth and universe based upon geneologies and metaphorical stories.

 

[John]

You keep saying "because of metaphorical stories, yet i see you still failed to answer my question..."why makes you think they are metaphorical? "