This CUP

[ezrider]

New American Standard Bible
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

Congratulations, you have found another cup. His blood which was poured out for you. Did Jesus drink his own blood? You do realize when He had spoken this, that he had yet to go into the garden to pray. Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass.

 

[ezra]

his cup was what he was fixing to go through .. it has nothing to do with wine mixed with drugs

The cup to my knowledge as been seen as a metaphor for the wrath and indignation of God. He prayed that the cup might pass. Three times he prayed that the cup might pass. Are we to believe that the Father did not answer His Prayer. I believe he did.

Did God take his cup away ? or did he make a way of escape from Christ giving up the Ghost.. they never killed Christ he gave his own life up . there are many things we dont understand like when he prayed and his sweat was like drops of Blood . what was going through his mind?

 

[gr8grace3]

Congratulations, you have found another cup. His blood which was poured out for you. Did Jesus drink his own blood? You do realize when He had spoken this, that he had yet to go into the garden to pray. Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass.

So what are you saying?

The Lord Jesus Christ was sweating blood and intensely praying to the Father that a cup of vinegar pass by Him?

 

[ezrider]

Psalm 69:19-28
Thou hast known my reproach, and my shame, and my dishonour:
mine adversaries are all before thee.
Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness:
and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none;
and for comforters, but I found none.
They gave me also gall for my meat;
and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
Let their table become a snare before them:
and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.
Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not;
and make their loins continually to shake.
Pour out thine indignation upon them,
and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.
Let their habitation be desolate;
and let none dwell in their tents.
For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten;
and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.
Add iniquity unto their iniquity:
and let them not come into thy righteousness.
Let them be blotted out of the book of the living,
and not be written with the righteous.

The indignation and wrath was not poured out upon Jesus. It was given to his enemies. If the cup of vinegar was symbolic of the wrath and indignation of God, then Jesus did not drink the cup. The Sponge was put to his lips and he tasted thereof, but he did not drink the cup.

 

[gr8grace3]

Psalm 69:19-28
Thou hast known my reproach, and my shame, and my dishonour:
mine adversaries are all before thee.
Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness:
and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none;
and for comforters, but I found none.
They gave me also gall for my meat;
and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
Let their table become a snare before them:
and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.
Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not;
and make their loins continually to shake.
Pour out thine indignation upon them,
and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.
Let their habitation be desolate;
and let none dwell in their tents.
For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten;
and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.
Add iniquity unto their iniquity:
and let them not come into thy righteousness.
Let them be blotted out of the book of the living,
and not be written with the righteous.

The indignation and wrath was not poured out upon Jesus. It was given to his enemies. If the cup of vinegar was symbolic of the wrath and indignation of God, then Jesus did not drink the cup. The Sponge was put to his lips and he tasted thereof, but he did not drink the cup.

The cup was symbolic of having the sin of the whole world laid upon Him. The Lord Jesus Christ was sinless in both His humanity and deity. To touch sin would have been the worst thing possible for Him......over and above the wrath of God. The Lord Jesus Christ knows the mercy,grace and Justice of the Father. But He knew no sin, and sin was to be laid upon Him.

His cup was to touch sin and die for it..........which separated Him from the Father.

 

[Willie T]

The "CUP" was a metaphor for the horrible death that He was about to experience.
It did not pass.
He drank it down to the last drop.

Jim wins the cigar.

Matt.20:22,ff even says that the disciples WILL drink of the same cup prepared for Him..... and they sure did NOT die for all men.

 

[Willie T]

The cup was symbolic of having the sin of the whole world laid upon Him. The Lord Jesus Christ was sinless in both His humanity and deity. To touch sin would have been the worst thing possible for Him......over and above the wrath of God. The Lord Jesus Christ knows the mercy,grace and Justice of the Father. But He knew no sin, and sin was to be laid upon Him.

His cup was to touch sin and die for it..........which separated Him from the Father.

Small correction: According to the Bible, that never happened.

 

[Jim Parker]

The cup to my knowledge as been seen as a metaphor for the wrath and indignation of God. He prayed that the cup might pass. Three times he prayed that the cup might pass. Are we to believe that the Father did not answer His Prayer. I believe he did.

Jesus ended each prayer with the words; "Nevertheless, thy will be done."
What was the will of the Father?
Ans: That Jesus, God made man, would give His life for the sins of the world.
That was the cup Jesus was born to drink and the cup he drank on the cross.

 

[gr8grace3]

Small correction: According to the Bible, that never happened.

It had to Willie. Other wise the sins of the world would not be paid for. His substitution of our spiritual death(separation from the Father) is what paid for the sins of the whole world.

He was very much alive when He said, "It is finished." And while he was on the cross He called the Father(the only time He called His Father 'my God'), " My God, my God." it was His separation from His Father..........In His perfect,100% humanity. His deity could not be separated from the Father, He and the Father are one.

Psalm 22:1~~New American Standard Bible
For the choir director; upon Aijeleth Hashshahar. A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why have You forsaken me? Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning.

 

[Jim Parker]

It had to Willie. Other wise the sins of the world would not be paid for. His substitution of our spiritual death(separation from the Father) is what paid for the sins of the whole world.

Sin causes physical death.
(Gen 2:17 ...but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.)
There is no mention anywhere in the Bible of anything called "spiritual death."
Jesus died PHYSICALLY for our sins and rose from the grave PHYSICALLY on the third day.
(1Co 15:3b ... Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and ... He was buried, and ... He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,)
By doing so, Jesus destroyed death's power over mankind. (1cor 15:51-55)

Sin can separate us from God which will lead to the second death.
A life of sin can make us enemies of God which also leads to the second death.

The only Bible that uses the words "Spiritual death" (2 times) is the New Living Translation which is a gender-neutral update of the earlier paraphrased Living Bible.

So, what do you mean by the non-Biblical term, "spiritual death"?

I ask because it is very important to define terms in order to communicate with any precision.

iakovos der meshugena

 

[Kidron]

-
God descended from Heaven, through the womb of a Virgin, to the earth He >created. < ... John 1:10
He sent Himself alone, as only God Himself could meet the requirements He himself established for righteousness.
He met them on earth by living a sinless life, and offered this sinless life on a Cross as a gift of righteousness that is able to redeem and restore you unto Himself, for eternity.
God becoming a man, understood pain and the consequences of bearing His own judgment against Himself for the sake of offering redemption to us all, as a gift.
God's flesh reacted to the knowledge of the consequence of the act of sacrificing Himself on a Cross for the sin of the world.
This is the "cup" Jesus is referring to, that He was up against, and it was agony to His soul even before He (Jesus) was arrested, as God knew what it would mean to suffer on a cross,= even before man , (as Adam), was ever created. (Foreknowledge of God)
Jesus, as God, walked daily on earth for a lifetime, knowing what was coming to Him in the end.
The "CUP".

"For God so loved the world that He GAVE Himself unto death upon a cross (Cup) as the only begotten Son (Himself in human flesh).""""
John 3:16

 

[gr8grace3]

Sin causes physical death.

(Gen 2:17 ...but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.

Death is plural in Gen 2:17. Dying, you shall surely die.
And instant death(spiritual death/separation from God.) And a later death in the physical realm.

If The Lord Jesus Christ paid for the sins of the whole world through His physical death.........NO ONE would die physically. He paid for the sins of the whole world so we could live spiritually.......by dying spiritually for us(separation from the Father.)

He died spiritually for us so that we could live in eternal life. He died physically for us so that we could have a glorified physical body.

 

[Willie T]

It had to Willie. Other wise the sins of the world would not be paid for. His substitution of our spiritual death(separation from the Father) is what paid for the sins of the whole world.

He was very much alive when He said, "It is finished." And while he was on the cross He called the Father(the only time He called His Father 'my God'), " My God, my God." it was His separation from His Father..........In His perfect,100% humanity. His deity could not be separated from the Father, He and the Father are one.

Psalm 22:1~~New American Standard Bible
For the choir director; upon Aijeleth Hashshahar. A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why have You forsaken me? Far from my deliverance are the words of my groaning.

Now, keep reading all the way to the end of the 22nd Psalm to find out that God never left Jesus.

 

[Jim Parker]

Death is plural in Gen 2:17. Dying, you shall surely die.
And instant death(spiritual death/separation from God.) And a later death in the physical realm.

What translation says "Dying you shall surely die"?
Are you trying to extrapolate from the ancient Hebrew into modern English? That's mixing apples and submarines.

If The Lord Jesus Christ paid for the sins of the whole world through His physical death.........NO ONE would die physically.

Wrong.
No one will STAY dead.
Everyone will be resurrected immortal and incorruptible.
Again: 1 Cor 15:51-56 That's what it says.

He died spiritually for us so that we could live in eternal life.

Nonsense.
NOWHERE does the scripture say that Jesus "died spiritually."
Jesus died physically.
Jesus is God.
God's spirit does not die...EVER.
We have eternal life by being united to Christ as a husband and bride become one flesh. (Eph 5:30-32)
Rom 12:5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ,...
We have eternal life by having "put on Christ." (Gal 3:27)
We have eternal life because, by being IN Christ, we have His life.
Rom 6:11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1Co 1:30 He (God) is the source of your life in Christ Jesus,
Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Nowhere in the New Covenant is there any mention of anything called "spiritual death."

iakovos der meshugenah

 

[ezrider]

Now, keep reading all the way to the end of the 22nd Psalm to find out that God never left Jesus.

Very good. Now when He cried unto Him, He Heard.

Who did He cry out to?
What did He Hear?
Was it an answer to a prayer?

 

[stovebolts]

I wonder if the cup could be considered the 5th cup....

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/117141/jewish/The-Silent-Cup.htm

 

[chessman]

Everyone will be resurrected immortal and incorruptible.
Again: 1 Cor 15:51-56 That's what it says.

No it doesn't. Who told you that "everyone" will be resurrected immortal and incorruptible?

Again 1 Cor 15:12-56 is Paul talking about (answering the Corinthians' questions, that is) the resurrection of those who have died (fallen asleep) in Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:18-20 And as a further result [hypothetically/logically if Christ has not risen from the dead], those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished [both body and soul destroyed]. If we have put our hope in Christ in this life only, we are of all people most pitiable. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.
​

The Lord breathes immortality/incorruptibility upon those who have fallen asleep in Christ ("His Church") not 'everyone' as you say.

42 Thus also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruptibility. [Paul]
​

[In v42 Paul's still talking about (still answering the previous question that is) those who have fallen asleep in Christ ]

CHAPTER 17
17:1 For this cause the Lord received ointment on
His head, that He might breathe incorruption upon the
Church.​

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-ephesians-lightfoot.html​

Ignatius agrees with Paul. It is the Church that receives incorruption! Do you agree with them or disagree?

I thought you liked Biblical context and the 'Apostolic Tradition handed down by the Church Fathers' such as Ignatius???)

Those that die having followed the prince of this world (versus being in Christ), rise to a judgment that leads to death (a Second Death) not life. It is those who have fallen asleep in Christ that are raised in incorruptibility.

Be not anointed with the ill odour of the
teaching of the prince of this world, lest he lead you
captive and rob you of the life​

They (Those that die having followed the prince of this world) have been taken captive by sin and thus robbed of an available Eternal Life in Christ (immortality).

They will perish in the folly of their prince, not knowing the gift of Grace which is in Christ (Eternal Life)

Why perish we in our folly, not knowing the gift of
grace which the Lord hath truly sent?​

Our life has sprung up in Christ (and Him alone) and by His death (and His death alone). Those that deny Him have not obtained faith in Him and therefore do not endure. They shall not be able to live apart from Him.

CHAPTER I.--REASON OF WRITING THE EPISTLE.
if we endure all the assaults of the prince of this world, and escape them, we shall enjoy God.
...
CHAPTER IX.--LET US LIVE WITH CHRIST.
our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death--whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master--how shall we be able to live apart from Him
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-magnesians-roberts.html
​

There will be a resurrection of 'everyone, sure. Just as sure as there will be both kindness (immortality) and a retribution (perishing) on that Day.

CHAPTER V.--THE NEW COVENANT, FOUNDED ON THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST, TENDS TO OUR SALVATION, BUT TO THE JEWS' DESTRUCTION.

This means that the man perishes justly, who, having a knowledge of the way of righteousness, rushes off into the way of darkness

CHAPTER XXI.--CONCLUSION
On this account there will be a resurrection, on this account a retribution. I beseech you who are superiors, if you will receive any counsel of my good-will, have among yourselves those to whom you may show kindness: do not forsake them. For the day is at hand on which all things shall perish with the evil [one].

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/barnabas-roberts.html

it is the Father of all who imparts continuance for ever and ever on those who are saved. For life does not arise from us, nor from our own nature; but it is bestowed according to the grace of God. And therefore he who shall preserve the life bestowed upon him, and give thanks to Him who imparted it, shall receive also length of days for ever and ever. But he who shall reject it, and prove himself ungrateful to his Maker, inasmuch as he has been created, and has not recognised Him who bestowed [the gift upon him], deprives himself of [the privilege of] continuance for ever and ever. And, for this reason, the Lord declared to those who showed themselves ungrateful towards Him: "If ye have not been faithful in that which is little, who will give you that which is great? " indicating that those who, in this brief temporal life, have shown themselves ungrateful to Him who bestowed it, shall justly not receive from Him length of days for ever and ever.​

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book2.html​

Clearly, according to Paul AND the Apostolic Tradition, not Everyone will be resurrected immortal and incorruptible.