Bible Study This generation shall not pass,

[Dave...]

This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

I have heard several explanations of what "this generation" means. The most Biblical explanation that I heard was that Jesus was speaking of the generation that these things began in. That those people who see these things begin ("When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves,") will be the generation that will see the fulfillment of the prophecy ("This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.").

I know there are several explanation of this, some do not seem to add up. While others seem like a stretch. Do you believe that the interpretation given above is correct?


Matthew 24:1
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

24:2
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

24:3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

24:4
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

24:6
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

24:7
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

24:8
All these are the beginning of sorrows.

24:9
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

24:10
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

24:11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

24:12
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

24:17
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

24:18
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

24:19
And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

24:20
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

24:23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

24:25
Behold, I have told you before.

24:26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

24:27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

24:28
For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

24:32
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

24:33
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

24:37
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

24:38
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

24:39
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

24:40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

24:41
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

24:42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

24:43
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

24:44
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

24:45
Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

24:46
Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

24:47
Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

24:48
But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

24:49
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

24:50
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

24:51
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[cj]

Proverbs  30 : 11 ---- Proverbs  30 : 14

11 There is a generation that curse their father, And do not bless their mother.

12 There is a generation that are pure in their own eyes, And yet are not washed from their filthiness.

13 There is a generation - oh how lofty are their eyes, And their eyelids are raised arrogantly.

14 There is a generation whose teeth are like swords, And their jaw teeth like knives, To devour the afflicted from off the earth, And the needy from among men.



The use of the word generation in Matthew 24 is more related to the moral condition rather than age.


In love,
cj

 

[Dave...]

Thanks cj.

Your view is interesting and possible, but it does not seem consistent with the context. The apostles do not seem to be concerned about whether evil people are going to survive till the second coming. They seem to be more concerned about when it's going to happen and what the signs are.

Does that sound like a reasonable observation to you?

Peace

Dave

P.S. I'm surprised that there are so many different interpretations of this scripture. I've heard about seven so far.

 

[cj]

Thanks cj.

Your view is interesting and possible, but it does not seem consistent with the context.

I'm missing something here..... what exactly are you asking regarding the use of the word generation? You seem to have something particular in mind, and it would be much easier to respond in a profitable way if I was more clear about it.

The apostles do not seem to be concerned about whether evil people are going to survive till the second coming. They seem to be more concerned about when it's going to happen and what the signs are.

The disciples' question concerned three matters: (1) the time when "these things" would take place, including not only the destruction of the temple (v. 2) but also the things mentioned in 23:32-39; (2) the sign of Christ's coming; and (3) the sign of the consummation of the age. The Lord's word from 24:4--25:46 answered the disciples' question concerning these three matters.

The Lord's answer has three sections: the first section (vv. 4-31) concerns the Jews, who are the chosen; the second (v. 32--25:30) concerns the church; and the third (25:31-46) concerns the Gentiles (the nations). The first section, concerning the Jews, should be interpreted literally, whereas the second section, concerning the church, should be interpreted spiritually, because it is spoken in parables for the reason given in 13:11-13. For instance, the winter in v. 20 is the actual winter, but the summer in v. 32 is a symbol signifying the time of restoration. The third section, concerning the Gentiles, also should be interpreted literally.

P.S. I'm surprised that there are so many different interpretations of this scripture. I've heard about seven so far.

Satan and his bag 'o tricks.

In love,
cj

 

[quadding101]

I will tell u the truth but few will agree with me. The generation that is talked about is the ones that sees Israel brught back. I do not mean being a country again but see the Jews of the world return to Israel even the Jews of america. God is about to do some things that He has not done in serval thousand years but it will be a sign that the end is very near.

 

[slanglep]

I do not mean being a country again but see the Jews of the world return to Israel even the Jews of america

They are returning in droves right now. So much so that the Israeli government is worried about shelter for all of them.


Might as well raise your hands cause we are the generation they speak of.

Israel reborn in 1948 after 2,000 years. He is calling the Jews to the homeland now.

 

[John the Baptist]

Hi CJ, John here.
I think that your generation thought, is the correct one. (if I understand that you are agreeing with it being the last generation living on earth, that is?)

Verse 14, Matthew 24:14 settles it for me. It is almost a done deal as of the present time now, worldwide. It can be all wrapped up in very short order by persecution & world Satellite T.V. (and this will be Virgin Truth, not Revelation 17:5's Abomination stuff)

Just one more thought. In Paul's day Matt. 24:14 was fulfilled. But God required a two/time repeat!

 

[Cameron]

The Lord's answer has three sections: the first section (vv. 4-31) concerns the Jews, who are the chosen; the second (v. 32--25:30) concerns the church; and the third (25:31-46) concerns the Gentiles (the nations).

In Paul's day Matt. 24:14 was fulfilled.

Generation and world are hotly debated. Why? because they do have a variety of meanings as mentioned above. Each meaning held is up to the opinion of the reader and their background understanding of eschatology.

No one will argue that world (oykumenay) has been used of the Roman world (Luke 2:1) and the entire globe(Heb. 1:6, Luke 4:5 and cross ref the Great Commission).

However, regarding the Lord's answer in Matthew 24, I do not agree with the 3 sections because:
1) He was only talking to four of His disciples privately at night (Mark 13:3)
2) These four men represent Christians (Matt. 28:20) and they are instructed to pass on Jesus' teaching by making more and better disciples.
3) Dividing the questions up into different categories is something that must be read-into the text. The pattern of the Gospels is that Jesus teaches publicly, then the disciples come privately for an explanation that edifies them and their followers. (Mark 4:11)

If we take Matthew 24 in a plain sense and think if the context:
-at night
-in private
-on Mt. of Olives in view of the Temple
-The core disciples plus Andrew
...then we should plainly understand Jesus as talking to disciples (Matt 28:20). Disciples passing on to other disciples. Of course, this plain understanding does not agree with some people's already established theology and eschatology. These predisposed ideas are what create the confusion.

Who is Jesus talking to when he says:
Mat 24:6 And you will hear of...
Mat 24:9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation...
Mat 24:9 and put you to death, ...
Mat 24:9 and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:15 "So when you see the...
Mat 24:20 Pray that your flight...
But for the sake of the elect ...
Mat 24:23 Then if anyone says to you, '...
Mat 24:24 ...if possible, even the elect.
Mat 24:25 See, I have told you beforehand.
Mat 24:26 So, if they say to you, 'Look...
Mat 24:31 ... will gather his elect from the four winds,...
Mat 24:33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.
Mat 24:34 Truly, I say to you, this generation...
Mat 24:42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know...
Mat 24:44 Therefore you also must be ready,
Mat 24:44 for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
Mat 24:47 Truly, I say to you,...

Clearly, Jesus us talking to the disciples about the disciples and for the disciples in Matthew 24.

Regarding the context of "genea" in Matthew 24:34 it is within the context of this passage that describes the events that "you" will witness.
The generation that recognizes the season will see these things come to pass. (Matthew 24:32)

Let this determine what you believe, not what you believe determine what Matthew 24 says.

 

[John the Baptist]

Hi, always willing, John here:

Always willing to listen and consider.
Cameron Fultz
Author of Prophecy's Architecture: How to build an End Times Doctrine (Strongtower Publishing: http://www.strongtowerpublishing.com/)
ISBN 0970433069

I am in spiritual concrete with Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15 keeping me in the Narrow Pathway. (+ 2 Timothy 3:16 & Matthew 4:4)

If there is no repeat, because it is so rare, Christ tells us of it instead of the reverse! Rainbow for one, and Nahum 1:9 for just one more of the few! So??? I just do not wast time with anything that disagrees with these verses! :wink:

 

[noblej6]

Hi Forum,

The verse in question........
24:34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Discussion 1
Cameron has the start of a good point back there a few posts. He points out the reference to "YOU" in the Olivet Discourse. It is no big secret who the "you" are and every so called Christian would quickly identify with the "you" as it is described in the Olivet The first thing to understand about the Great tribulation, which I say is the same as God's wrath, is that it does not involve followers of Christ. Followers of Christ would be the "you" in the conversation. Followers of Christ, those who have accepted Christ have nothing to fear from the Great tribulation and it appears that people here understand that believers are not going to suffer God's wrath. So now go back to the Olivet and notice that it is not the "you" who see the coming of the son of man on the clouds, it is "THEY" The ones who didn't accept Jesus are killed in that great tribulation/God's wrath.
Matthew 23
36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

Strange that Matthew would not use the same meaning for the same group of people in the chapter immediately after this.

37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings,

39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

These vipers He was talking to would not see Jesus again until "THEY" saw Him during the Great tibulation.

The people we read of here.....Revelation 7
"These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

So the generation is the one Jesus was talking to. That brood of vipers from chapter 23.

John

 

[noblej6]

Hi forum,

Discussion point #2

This verse is very important for religious groups who teach that Jesus will physically return to earth some day in the future. For the rest of us it isn't really a big issue. I don't think Catholics spend a lot of time on eschatological topics at all and it isn't an issue for lots of protestant groups either.

However, if you are in a denomination that preaches a future rapture or an on earth return this verse can not be taken as the people Jesus was talking to. That would mean that the great triulation is over and the coming of the son of man is over as well and that refutes futurism doctrine.

Some may recall that the old argument to place this verse future was that it was a dual prophecy. It happened in Jesus time , but it would be repeated some time in the future. Over time people came to understand that some event that has never happened before and never will again limits it to once. You may still find this argument in archives on some sites.

Then came the argument that it is the people who actually see these things happen. Gee, do you think? That IS what it says alright, but somehow you are supposed to automatically look at something future. Well, that would be fine except that there is this destruction of a temple that Jesus and His deciples just walked out of. .........

So that led to this new third temple argument that seems to be the most prevelent of escha forums these days.

The simple solution is that the verse says ALL these things. Jesus was asked about the destruction of the temple and that is obviously in His answer. That was in the generation Jesus was talking to and that fixes the time of the rest. It was the generation Jesus was talking to.

John

 

[noblej6]

Hi Forum,

Again the verse in question......
34I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Heres a angle to this that I personally developed as far as I know and I have never had any futurists really deal with it at all.

There are three writers that recorded that conversation on the mount of Olives that day. There was a question asked of Jesus that day as they left the temple in Jerusalem. Matthew recorded the question as:

"Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

Mark and Luke both record the question as this:

7"Teacher," they asked, "when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?"

The conversation is not recorded exactly the same way, but there are certain simularities which show that it is indeed the same conversation being written about.

The important thing here is that these words of Jesus.......

26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

That sentence is in every writers story concerning that conversation and the question which starts it off, whether they included the part about the coming or not.

The only possible way each writer can be correct in how they recorded the question is if the coming of the son of man was one of the things that would happen with the destruction of that temple, not some future temple but the one they all walked out of that day.

Some insist that we know the coming and end are extra questions, but that doesn't cut it. Mark and Luke were made aware of the details by inspiration and recorded the question as they did. It has to be correct as written. There is only one way that all three can be correct.

So there is one more argument that points to the generation being the one Jesus was talking to.

John

 

[noblej6]

Hi Forum,

My final argument for the generation Jesus was talking to.........

There is a sequence of events described in the Olivet which lead up to where they see the coming of the son of man.

1) the abomination appears in the Holy place
2)there is a flight of His followers out of Judea
3) there is a great tribulation
4)there is a celestial display which includes
5) the coming of the son of man or the parousia.

The Holy Place of the temple was destroyed in 70 AD. JOsephus writes that people did flee to Pella in the mountains to avoid the rebellion of 66-70AD. The rebellion was in and around Jerusalem and did last about 3.5 years. JOsephus also talks of wierd cloud formations at the time. AND here are biblical verses which indicate that the coming of the son of man would be first century.

Mattthew 10
23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

John 21
23Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"

Then here is another proof text that I developed and no one has ever had much to say about this either.

Jesus had John write letters to certain churches in the irst part of the Book of Revelation. One letter was to the angel of the church in Thyatira. It goes on to explain that some are acting like Jezebel but some are doing alright and Jesus says to these people.......

25Only hold on to what you have until I come.

SO did Jesus lie to these folks and not come or did they all stop holding??? or are they stll holding? Considering there is no longer a Thyatira.

The only proof I need that the parousia was in the first century is that Jesus said it would be...three times. That would fit in with the generation that Jesus was talking to which is what He said verbatim.

As someone wrote elsewhere in this thread you are aware that Paul mentioned that the gospel had been preached to every creature under Heaven which means the end could come. The end in that generation, the temple was definately in that generation and the parousia was in that genneration. Jesus meant the people He was talking to.

I'd like to see comments on this Thyatira example. It is new so there are no canned answers in any study material.

John

 

[John the Baptist]

Matthew 10
23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

******
John here: The above verse I used elsewhere, as well as the below remark. Perhaps I might give my take of what I was saying, ok? then you can go on to your other asked question from readers, if one replies?

I had mentioned Matthew 10:23 as a last day event, yet still in the very near future. This verse finds Christ already there speaking in the verse, so one can understand that He has another time/frame in mind with repeated history! (End time!) Again one can read the WORD OF GOD in Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15 for this REPEAT. (if one believes the Word of God?)

And the below remark that I told of Paul telling of the Gospel going to the end of the world? Matthew 24:14 said that the Christ of that verse would return when this happened! And it was not talking of a temple return!! (see Matthew 24:3 .. 'of Thy coming' & 'the End of the World') As did Paul & his converts know, that the Eccl. verses required a two time repeat! See Romans 11:17-18.
****

As someone wrote elsewhere in this thread you are aware that Paul mentioned that the gospel had been preached to every creature under Heaven which means the end could come. The end in that generation, the temple was definately in that generation and the parousia was in that genneration. Jesus meant the people He was talking to.

 

[noblej6]

Hi John,

I don't think I'll buy that suggestion. What repeats? For instance the GREAT tribulation which is so central to all of this will not repeat.

Matthew 10 is quite straight forward.

Jesus gives instructions to His 12 to go out and proclaim the gospel. He lists the names of who He is talking to. He describes where He wants them to go and He tells them, the twelve, that THEY will not get thru those cities before He comes. Naturally that is a future event, but it cannot possibly be longer than the lives of those He is talking to.

Matthew 24:14 is talking about the END will happen after the gospel is preached. Paul said it had been preached in Col 1:23. This is the end of the age/world as we see by the Greek word aion in verse 3.

This verse tells us when the end of the world is.

Hebrews 9

26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

The end of the age or the end of the world was connected to the cross, but not complete until Jesu ruled at the right hand and destroyed all of His enemies, the last bein death. That had been completed when Paul wrote this:

2 Tim 1
10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

So I won't buy the repeat idea, I prfer to read the words of the sentences just as the come off the page.

John

 

[John the Baptist]

Hi John,

I don't think I'll buy that suggestion. What repeats? For instance the GREAT tribulation which is so central to all of this will not repeat.

Matthew 10 is quite straight forward.

Jesus gives instructions to His 12 to go out and proclaim the gospel. He lists the names of who He is talking to. He describes where He wants them to go and He tells them, the twelve, that THEY will not get thru those cities before He comes. Naturally that is a future event, but it cannot possibly be longer than the lives of those He is talking to.

Matthew 24:14 is talking about the END will happen after the gospel is preached. Paul said it had been preached in Col 1:23. This is the end of the age/world as we see by the Greek word aion in verse 3.

This verse tells us when the end of the world is.

Hebrews 9

26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

The end of the age or the end of the world was connected to the cross, but not complete until Jesu ruled at the right hand and destroyed all of His enemies, the last bein death. That had been completed when Paul wrote this:

2 Tim 1
10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

So I won't buy the repeat idea, I prfer to read the words of the sentences just as the come off the page.

John

*******
Hi, don't jump ship to quick!! At least keep this in your memory bank for the Romans 8:14 verse. Remember it is the Inspired Word of God that you are not going 'to buy'! (as you say) These are the Godheads verses, not mine! Does He lie, does He change? No, you can test your 'ideas' with this short cut of God's method, if one really believes His Word! (we can, no offense suggested!)

Read them again in Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15. Notice the CLARITY!! Then apply it to Adam being able to create (procreate) his first son. What was before Adam??? I understand that one must believe God's Word.

There are so few times that this does not be, that God tells us this, this way, so we can see the simplicity of it, rather than the other way around. Such as the rain-bow, and the sin question in Nahum 1:9 never to arise a second time.

And the verses that you give?? Apply them to ALL of the Godheads Inspiration! Matthew 4:4, 2 Timothy 3:16. Notice the Word of.. 'EVERY WORD OF GOD'! and "ALL SCRIPTURE"! :wink:

No: Matthew 4:6 even needed to be corrected as a quoted promise from the devil that was almost Word for Word, one that Christ had Inspired in the O.T. Truth with its CONDITIONAL totality missing! (Everlasting Gospel & Everlasting Covenant)

And the great tribulation, not repeating??? There has always been great tribulations! Each is a repeat with one thing at least in mind.
Are they all exactly alike in form? Take the case of the crucifixion of the Master the first time, and then now, as seen in Hebrews 6:6. How do these repeats differ in bottom line? They do not! Exodus 16:4 & Exodus 16:28 is another test in comparison with the 666 testing. Same test? No, but the same bottom line repeat! Same Commandment to boot!
God said so!

----John

 

[noblej6]

Hi John,

I buy the word of God, but I reject certain of man's interpretations of that word. I have no problem with what is said in the OT by Ecclesiastes, but it can not be applied to every verse in the bible. Matthew 10:23 is one of them, that verse does not repeat. What Jesus says there is a statement of future fact.

23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

The 12 who only lived once and will never repeat, proclaimed the gospel once and will never repeat it again and they only got part way thru the cities of Israel before the coming. That is what the sentence says, that is what I accept.

When you mention the 'every' word of God, how about reconciling even the few verses I quoted such as John 21:22, Matthew 10:23 and Rev 2:25.

I can see why the 'repeat' theory would evolve. It would be a way of explaining away Matthew 24:14 and col 1:23 and situations like that, but the coming is tied in around that GREAT tribulation which has not happened since the beginning and will never happen again. That does not ever repeat, therefore the references connected to that can not repeat either. The parousia only occurs after the GREAT tribulation.

The Great Tribulation is a special one time event named by Jesus Christ. Of course there is other tribulation in all lives but this was the once in creation event.


Ecclesiastes 1

Here are some of the things that repeat as Ecclesiastes notes......

4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.

5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.

6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.

7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.

Absolutely nothing that I will use to adjust the written word of God in prophecies spoken by Christ.

The sun goes down the sun comes up, that is all it means, people are born , people die.

John

 

[Abiyah]

Hi there !

Goodmorning all ! I'd like to share with you my understanding of the "Generation of the Fig Tree ". I realize that this is a bit lengthy, but I NEED to quote God's Word.

The generation of the Fig Tree is the final generation before the Second Advent of Jesus Christ. Below is the prophecy of Israel once again becoming a Nation. This became a reality on May 14, 1948; it had not happened since Christ's time:

JEREMIAH CHAPTER 24, we SEE that Jeremiah is not talking about actual "figs", but rather people; He uses the "figs" as an analogy, a metephor if you will of two types of figs, a good one and a bad one. We also see Jesus Christ curse the fig tree in Mark 11:12-23, and the tree "withered away", dried up by the roots [Mark 11:20-21], which was symbolic of the people that represent the evil "figs". The "bad/evil figs" are also symbolic of the "Tares" of the Parable of the Wheat and the "Tares" [Matthew 13:38-39]; Jesus also addressed these "evil figs" as "Ye serpents, ye generation [=meaning offspring] of vipers" [ Matthew 23:32-33], He tells them, " Ye are of your father the DEVIL" [John 8:44], and I believe that the the Parable concerning the "Fig Tree" goes ALL THE WAY BACK to the Garden of Eden, in which Adam & Eve sewed "Fig Leaves" to cover their private parts. [Genesis 3:7] & [ I John 3:12 & John 8:44=In which the first murderer was Cain]

Jeremiah 24:1-10
1 The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.
2 One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.
3 Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.4 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
5 Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.
6 For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.
7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.
8 And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith the LORD, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt:
9 And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them.
10 And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land that I gave unto them and to their fathers.

Below, Jesus is speaking of the final generation, the Generation of the Fig Tree:

Luke 21:29-36
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

In the final verses in the Scripture above, Jesus speaks of the great tribulation that shall come upon the earth BEFORE the Second Advent of Jesus Christ.

I believe that the first tribulation is the tribulation of the antichrist, the instead of christ, which is that old serpent, called the devil, and satan [ Rev 12:9-12]; coming first to this world, BEFORE Jesus, claiming to be the true Messiah. Jesus tells us that the deception of the end times (first tribulation- which is also the hour of temptation) will be so powerfull that nothing will ever again be so terrible, nor has anything ever in the history of creation been so formidable a danger to the eternal soul: As it is written in the Book of Matthew.

Matthew 24:21-36
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. [Rev 9:5]
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders [Rev. 13:13]; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. [Satan is a dead man walking, he already has been sentenced to death]
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

In the Scripture below, we see God foretelling that the children of Israel shall be returned to their own land which they had been driven from:

Jeremiah 16:9-15
9 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride.
10 And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?
11 Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law;
12 And ye have done worse than your fathers; for, behold, ye walk every one after the imagination of his evil heart, that they may not hearken unto me:
13 Therefore will I cast you out of this land into a land that ye know not, neither ye nor your fathers; and there shall ye serve other gods day and night; where I will not shew you favour.
14 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that it shall no more be said, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
15 But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

On May 14, 1948 the Generation of the Fig Tree began, with Israel once again becoming a Nation. To this very day, Jews are flowing back into Israel from around the world. Below is their Declaration of Statehood and the fulfillment of Prophecy, drawn-up in 1948:

THE DECLARATION OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL May 14, 1948

On May 14, 1948, on the day in which the British Mandate over a Palestine expired, the Jewish People's Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum, and approved the following proclamation, declaring the establishment of the State of Israel. The new state was recognized that night at 11:00 AM Israel time by the United States and three days later by the USSR.

Abiyah

 

[John the Baptist]

Hi John,

I buy the word of God, but I reject certain of man's interpretations of that word. I have no problem with what is said in the OT by Ecclesiastes, but it can not be applied to every verse in the bible. Matthew 10:23 is one of them, that verse does not repeat. What Jesus says there is a statement of future fact.
****
John here again. OK: Is that not what Christ said ? A furture fact it was!! yet, read from Mathew 10:5-38 on!! This is the future repeat of the New Virgin Israel. This same persecution will be what finishes the work. Comfessing (fallen) Vhristian's doing the Mark of the Beast work. Again see Revelation 17:1-5. Notice the Daughter are also included in the 'ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH'. (The suppliers caps)

God ask, WHAT IS NEW? Notice that we were not around to garbel it up! :wink: So the Godhead answered themselves with N-O-T-H-I-N-G!!!
I will check again & look for that being told that God made an exception with the Matt. 10:23 verse?? But if it does not say as you say, I will need to leave you with the last few vewrses of His Word! Revelation 22:18-19.
****
23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

The 12 who only lived once and will never repeat, proclaimed the gospel once and will never repeat it again and they only got part way thru the cities of Israel before the coming. That is what the sentence says, that is what I accept.

*****
Me again: Hay, up front! Give me a break :fadein:, 'i' grow slowly! But I have no trouble with this slow growth, as long as i finally do the Romans 8:14 thing. And we can be 'settled in the faith' perhaps, by just having a good spiritual appitude instead of I.Q. :fadein:

Now: About the 12 with the Everlasting Gospel. EVERLASTING as in Revelation 14:6! Do we think that the Gospel had a beginning?? Is not ETERNAL?? Do we think that the SOULS in Genesis 12:5 that Abram (even before he was called Abramham) 'had gotten in Haran' were gotton any other way than by Christ's Eternal Gospel??? And ETERNAL COVENANT? See Hebrews 13:20. What tribe did they belong to??
****
When you mention the 'every' word of God, how about reconciling even the few verses I quoted such as John 21:22, Matthew 10:23 and Rev 2:25.

****
Me again: John 21:22? I do not know what you are asking with that verse? Is it 'till I come'? Jesus simpley said in effect, Suppose I should will that he tarry, that would not be a matter of concern to you. (a commentary explanation)

And Matthew 10:23 I have already explained, I think? :wink:

Revelation 2:25? The seven churches are Christ True Virgin called ones! These have the Psalms 77:13 Way of God!! They cover all history from Genesis 3:15 to Revelation 3:16-17. There will always be the true doctrines on earth. And the called 'folds' can & Israel of old & Laodicea of Revelation 3:16-17 will be spewed out. In both Israel of old & 7th-day Adventism of today, the seventh fold was removed as unfaithful & the sixth fold replaced them. These were both on the scene during the same two time period. See Revelation 12:17 for both folds.

In both instances we see number six replace them. So, verse 25 of Revelation is a warning that even the Virgin fold can be lost! Doctrines save NO ONE! It takes Christ with His Virgin doctrines. See Matthew 23:3. True Agape recreated Love OBEYES! Acts 5:32. Yet, it's true motive can become sickening by choice. (as Rev. 3:16-17 states) Notice Isaiah 5:3's prophecy twice repeated! Verse 7 tells one who this is.
****
I can see why the 'repeat' theory would evolve. It would be a way of explaining away Matthew 24:14 and col 1:23 and situations like that, but the coming is tied in around that GREAT tribulation which has not happened since the beginning and will never happen again. That does not ever repeat, therefore the references connected to that can not repeat either. The parousia only occurs after the GREAT tribulation.

The Great Tribulation is a special one time event named by Jesus Christ. Of course there is other tribulation in all lives but this was the once in creation event.

****
John here: Let me just close for now with this? There was a Midnight Cry to Israel. Today's 7th Day Adventist. Then Israel were slaughtered in 70AD. No Christians died, they ALL left! See Mathew 25:6 for this Midnight Cry. I already mentioned the 36 years between this and the LOUD CRY of Revelation 14:8-10.

The counterpart finds 1 Peter 4:17 [again] past, before the Mark of the Beast. Then we have the whole of professed Christian & even God servers to be tested for the LAST time. And we are told why, there is to be no repeat of sin, God say's No way! See Nahum 1:9.
Let me just bring this in? In Matthew 23:15 we see Israel of old & Adventism of today (the repeat) going all over the globe making converts! Making them two times more the child of hell than yourselves Christ states! (it was reported in the Adventist world paper that overseas they are baptising hudge numbers and do not even keep track of the name, just numbers!!
But the point is, these Adventists will also be given the 666 testing to see if they are safe to save? But the Fold of Adventistism is rejected before this.
****

Ecclesiastes 1

Here are some of the things that repeat as Ecclesiastes notes......

4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.

5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.

6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.

7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.

Absolutely nothing that I will use to adjust the written word of God in prophecies spoken by Christ.

The sun goes down the sun comes up, that is all it means, people are born , people die.

John

 

[noblej6]

Hi Abiyah,

The generation of the fig tree and you use 1948.

1948 was 56 years ago. Most of you who use this argument also use 7 years as the length of the GREAT tribulation. That takes us to 63 years. It is not just that but the bible says it is those who see these things so a person has to be what...10 years old to comprehend what 1948 was. That is 73 years. If you calculate out how long a biblical generation is using Matthew 1:17 , I think you will find it is 41 years.

As you also pointed out Luke, in the parallel refers to all trees, so I choose to use the Maple tree of Canada and Canada became a country in 1867, so it was that generation that saw all these things. Well, it makes as much sense as anything else. The parable of the fig tree tells us that when we see the buds, summer is coming because trees bud in the spring and summer follows spring. This fig generation is more to bolster false doctrine than anything else. The fig argument is one of the least of importance of any that I have seen.

You mention tha Luke is talking about the final generation. Perhaps the final generation of the old covenant, but I already pointed out a verse that proves the parouisa is NOT the last or final generation of all time. Far from it. Rev 14:13.

13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on."


Luke 21
9 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

In the final verses in the Scripture above, Jesus speaks of the great tribulation that shall come upon the earth BEFORE the Second Advent of Jesus Christ.

What Jesus is talking about in chapter 21 is the things that will happen leading up to the destruction of the tempole in Jerusalem That is His answer to the question in verse 7. AND yes, that great trib would come upon the earth before the coming of the son of man on the clouds.

I believe that the first tribulation is the tribulation of the antichrist,he instead of christ, which is that old serpent, called the devil, and satan [ Rev 12:9-12]; coming first to this world, BEFORE Jesus, claiming to be the true Messiah. Jesus tells us that the deception of the end times (first tribulation- which is also the hour of temptation) will be so powerfull that nothing will ever again be so terrible

There is no such thing as the first tribulation because that would mean there would have to be a second tribulation. The Great tribulation has never happened before in creation and will never happen again. Nowhere does it say it is the worst, nowhere does it say that the most people died and nowhere does it say this is the whatever of anything, it simple says it has never happened before and never will again., How hard is that to understand anyway? How many events would there be that is followed by the coming of the son of man.

t,

nor has anything ever in the history of creation been so formidable a danger to the eternal soul: As it is written in the Book of Matthew.

Boy, we sure don't agree on much. The Great tribulation and the following parousia was the saving force of the eternal immortal soul.

So back to the fig tree theory. The part I like about it is that hopefully you will live long enough to know it wasn't true. If you recall even the WatchTower gave up on their 1914 theory by the mid nineties. Learning a doctrine isn't true has never changed much in religious history. They just develop a new theory and everyone marvels at how far off the mark that last thing was, or flatly deny that there ever was such a thing, but boy we sure have it pegged now.

SO the 1948 theory impresses me less than the old dual prophecy story.

Hey, we hardly agree at all, but I like dealing with this stuff, it sharpens my memory on chapter and verse and what biblical story is where. Thank you all. Keep firing the questions at me.

John