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[stovebolts]

Thank you for the site as I forgot I had studied this a long time ago and found this in my notes.

Concerning the word Lucifer the King James took the Latin Vulgate word Lucifer which in Latin means the morning star meaning the planet of Venus. Has nothing to do with Jesus being called bright and morning star in Rev 22:16 as the use of those words are different. Lucifer is considered a Greco-Roman pagan god and has nothing to do with Satan, Devil or what other names this fallen angel is called by.

morning star son of the dawn - NIV
Lucifer son of the morning - NKJV
shinging star of the dawn - James Moffatt
Day star Son of Dawn - The Jerusalem Bible
Lucifer son of the morning - KJV

In the Roman language Lucifer was the name given to the morning star Venus as Venus was considered a pagan god. The morning star appears in the sky just before dawn. In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can be translated as Day star, son of the Dawn. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor Day star, son of the Dawn, as Lucifer, and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place from the Latin in that of interpreting Lucifer into a fallen angel now named Satan. In the original Hebrew day star, son of the dawn is used, but not for that of Satan, but for the king of Babylon. Isaiah is using this metaphor for a bright light, though not the greatest light (Jesus) to illustrate the apparent power of the Babylonian king which then faded.

The name Satan comes from a Hebrew word sah-TAHN which means adversary as in signifying an enemy, and an accuser, father of lies.

Isaiah 14:12-15 Ezekiel 28:14,15 is prophetically directed to the king of Babylon and the king of Tyre, but also meant to include someone apart from humans as being refered to as an anointed cherub or son of the morning that has always been our adversary starting with his fall from God's favor, but still has access to heaven as he presents himself before God to accuse the brethren before Christ, Job 2:1,2; Rev 12:10, until Michael wars against him and kicks him out of heaven with all his unholy angels, Rev 12:7-9. It was Satan (or whatever one wants to call this fallen angel as God never gave him a name that I know of who worked through the serpent who tempted Adam and Eve and also tempted Jesus in Matthew 4:1-11. Some might ask why would God let Satan into the garden already knowing what would happen and the answer is because it was God's will as being our Father knows we will fail at times, but as any parent, wants us to grow from the mistakes we make as we take responsibility for our actions.

Good stuff, thanks for sharing.
I was looking up some of my old notes, and unfortunately I don't have all of them because I loaned my Ramban commentary out to another friend and haven't gotten it back. So, from notes in my bible, let me see if I can put this together and then we can ask questions and maybe fill in any blanks because I want it to be more of an outline for review.
1. In Genesis, we see that Eden is on a mountain because it separated into four headwaters Genesis 2:10. Eden is where God dwells, and walks with humanity.
2. After the fall, Adam and Eve were exiled from the garden. We first see the idea of Exile here. Furthermore, a Cherubim was assigned to the east entrance of the garden. Note East and Cherubim.
3. Oral Tradition states Adam was formed on Mt. Moriah
4. Abraham offered Isaac on Mt. Moriah
5. Abraham meets King of Salem, modern day Jerusalem.
6. Solomon built Temple on Mt. Moriah in Jerusalem.
7. Exodus 25:20 God tells Moses to build an Ark, with two Cherubim.
8 The Ark , mercy seat, cherubim represents God at Mt. Sinai with references back to Eden through the Tabernacle / Temple.
9. God dwells above the Cherubim in the Temple
10. 1 Chronicles 28:18 , Cherubim on Ark is also described as a chariot.
11. Psalms 18:10 , From the temple (God's dwelling place), God mounts the cherubim and flies on the wings of the wind. Again, we see Mt. Sinai represented with smoke, fire and lightning etc.
12. Ezekiel 1, Wheels, creatures, eyes. This was in my Ramban commentary that I do not have :-( ,but it tied back to Psalms 18:10. I believe it also ties back to 1 Kings 7.
13. Ezekiel 10, God's glory departs from the Temple. This goes back to Exodus when Moses it told how to make the Ark etc. Keep in mind that the Cherubim were above the mercy seat, and God above that. Note Ezekiel 10:15 - 22 Also note, just like the Cherubim in Eden were on the East Entrance, we see again in verse 19 the East entrance.
14. Ezekiel 14 deals with Exile. In Exile theology, this is a retelling of Genesis 3, only the details have changed.
15. Ezekiel 26 deals with the fall of Tyre. This ties into Ezekiel 28.
16. Ezekiel 27 tells of the glory of Tyre.
17. 1 Kings 5 shows the involvement the King of Tyre has in building Solomon's Temple.
18. 1 Kings 7:13 shows the detail within the Temple that King of Tyre was involved in. The decor of the Temple reflected Eden.

If the Temple represents the Garden of Eden, then we see that the King of Tyre was very much involved in the construction of the Holy Temple. Present in Eden

19. Ezekiel 28:13 refers to 1 Kings 7:13 - 51 and 1 Kings 9:1.
20. Ezekiel 16 shows the birth of Israel and uses the same symbolic type of language as chapter 28.

 

[for_his_glory]

Good stuff, thanks for sharing.
I was looking up some of my old notes, and unfortunately I don't have all of them because I loaned my Ramban commentary out to another friend and haven't gotten it back. So, from notes in my bible, let me see if I can put this together and then we can ask questions and maybe fill in any blanks because I want it to be more of an outline for review.
1. In Genesis, we see that Eden is on a mountain because it separated into four headwaters Genesis 2:10. Eden is where God dwells, and walks with humanity.
2. After the fall, Adam and Eve were exiled from the garden. We first see the idea of Exile here. Furthermore, a Cherubim was assigned to the east entrance of the garden. Note East and Cherubim.
3. Oral Tradition states Adam was formed on Mt. Moriah
4. Abraham offered Isaac on Mt. Moriah
5. Abraham meets King of Salem, modern day Jerusalem.
6. Solomon built Temple on Mt. Moriah in Jerusalem.
7. Exodus 25:20 God tells Moses to build an Ark, with two Cherubim.
8 The Ark , mercy seat, cherubim represents God at Mt. Sinai with references back to Eden through the Tabernacle / Temple.
9. God dwells above the Cherubim in the Temple
10. 1 Chronicles 28:18 , Cherubim on Ark is also described as a chariot.
11. Psalms 18:10 , From the temple (God's dwelling place), God mounts the cherubim and flies on the wings of the wind. Again, we see Mt. Sinai represented with smoke, fire and lightning etc.
12. Ezekiel 1, Wheels, creatures, eyes. This was in my Ramban commentary that I do not have :-( ,but it tied back to Psalms 18:10. I believe it also ties back to 1 Kings 7.
13. Ezekiel 10, God's glory departs from the Temple. This goes back to Exodus when Moses it told how to make the Ark etc. Keep in mind that the Cherubim were above the mercy seat, and God above that. Note Ezekiel 10:15 - 22 Also note, just like the Cherubim in Eden were on the East Entrance, we see again in verse 19 the East entrance.
14. Ezekiel 14 deals with Exile. In Exile theology, this is a retelling of Genesis 3, only the details have changed.
15. Ezekiel 26 deals with the fall of Tyre. This ties into Ezekiel 28.
16. Ezekiel 27 tells of the glory of Tyre.
17. 1 Kings 5 shows the involvement the King of Tyre has in building Solomon's Temple.
18. 1 Kings 7:13 shows the detail within the Temple that King of Tyre was involved in. The decor of the Temple reflected Eden.

If the Temple represents the Garden of Eden, then we see that the King of Tyre was very much involved in the construction of the Holy Temple. Present in Eden

19. Ezekiel 28:13 refers to 1 Kings 7:13 - 51 and 1 Kings 9:1.
20. Ezekiel 16 shows the birth of Israel and uses the same symbolic type of language as chapter 28.

The Tabernacle was built around the Ark as this also represents Christ being the center of our life. The Mercy Seat is like the blood of Christ that covers us. The two Cherubims guarded the the way to the Tree of Life in Eden as it was judgement. The two Cherubims on the Ark are facing the Mercy Seat as this is in association to the blood of Christ as God shows mercy on us.
http://www.thebiblestudypage.com/taber_ark_mercy.shtml

Hiram, being the king of Tyre, did help supply the materials for the Temple as he was a friend of Solomon, but not a Godly man as he gained in trade with Solomon for that of what he supplied thus the prophecy of Ezekiel 28.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/7720-hiram-huram

The location where the garden of Eden was is described in Genesis 2:10-14. Eden is located somewhere between Turkey, Iraq and Syria where the four heads of the rivers come from. Eastern gate of the Garden of Eden that the two Cherubim guard faces what would have been where the tower of Babel was built and Babylonian Empire becoming the Roman Empire that has always opposed Gods people.

The four rivers of Genesis 2:10-14
Pison in the land of Havilah
Gihon in the land of Ethiopia
Hiddekel east of Assyria
Euphrates in Turkey through Irag (Iraq used to the Babylonian Empire)

 

[stovebolts]

The Tabernacle was built around the Ark as this also represents Christ being the center of our life. The Mercy Seat is like the blood of Christ that covers us. The two Cherubims guarded the the way to the Tree of Life in Eden as it was judgement. The two Cherubims on the Ark are facing the Mercy Seat as this is in association to the blood of Christ as God shows mercy on us.
http://www.thebiblestudypage.com/taber_ark_mercy.shtml

Hiram, being the king of Tyre, did help supply the materials for the Temple as he was a friend of Solomon, but not a Godly man as he gained in trade with Solomon for that of what he supplied thus the prophecy of Ezekiel 28.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/7720-hiram-huram

The location where the garden of Eden was is described in Genesis 2:10-14. Eden is located somewhere between Turkey, Iraq and Syria where the four heads of the rivers come from. Eastern gate of the Garden of Eden that the two Cherubim guard faces what would have been where the tower of Babel was built and Babylonian Empire becoming the Roman Empire that has always opposed Gods people.

The four rivers of Genesis 2:10-14
Pison in the land of Havilah
Gihon in the land of Ethiopia
Hiddekel east of Assyria
Euphrates in Turkey through Irag (Iraq used to the Babylonian Empire)

I understand what you are saying, and how you are saying it We are looking at this from two different points of view.
The Tabernacle and all of it's furnishings are copies of heavenly things, and we know that in Revelation, we again see the tree of life etc in the heavenly realm.
Revelation is not specific to John. Much, not all, but much of what John writes can be found in Jewish Midrash.

While I know you will not agree, and that's ok. Many Jews believe that the Temple represented Eden / Heaven. I believe Eziekeil, as a Priest who ministered in the temple before it's destruction was one of them, and wrote with that theology in mind.

Anyway, Take care.

 

[for_his_glory]

I totally agree that the Tabernacle and it's furnishings are copies of the Heavenly Tabernacle of God and yes we read that the Tree of Life is in the New Jerusalem. I do not know if revelation is specific to John as I know nothing of the Jewish Midrash. I also believe the Temple is a representation of Eden for there was God in the midst of it in all His glory. Ezekiel was a Priest who ministered in the Temple and also was given the prophecy about Hiram the king of Tyre. I also believe it was Satan in the garden who appeared as a serpent that deceived Eve just as Satan was the evil part of the king of Tyre.

This has been a good conversation and I thank you for it and you take care also.

 

[stovebolts]

I totally agree that the Tabernacle and it's furnishings are copies of the Heavenly Tabernacle of God and yes we read that the Tree of Life is in the New Jerusalem. I do not know if revelation is specific to John as I know nothing of the Jewish Midrash. I also believe the Temple is a representation of Eden for there was God in the midst of it in all His glory. Ezekiel was a Priest who ministered in the Temple and also was given the prophecy about Hiram the king of Tyre. I also believe it was Satan in the garden who appeared as a serpent that deceived Eve just as Satan was the evil part of the king of Tyre.

This has been a good conversation and I thank you for it and you take care also.

I have appreciated your thoughts and kindness. It has been nice.
Btw, the person I loaned my commentary up and moved to Texas ..... I really gotta keep better track of the people I loan my prized books to...

 

[th1b.taylor]

Satan was cast down to the ground and became the ruler of iniquity over it before the creation of man which is why he had the power and right to give the kingdoms of the world over to Christ trying to tempt Him,

I'm Having a lot of trouble reconciling that statement in it's entirety because in the Beginning God gave Adam dominion over the Earth and lost it to Satan when he caused Eve to tempt Adam with the one fruit the were never consume. One Command and Man, Adam, could not keep it bit threw his commission over to the Devil.

Can you reckon this with your statement for my benefit?

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm Having a lot of trouble reconciling that statement in it's entirety because in the Beginning God gave Adam dominion over the Earth and lost it to Satan when he caused Eve to tempt Adam with the one fruit the were never consume. One Command and Man, Adam, could not keep it bit threw his commission over to the Devil.

Can you reckon this with your statement for my benefit?

I'll answer this with a question and then if need be we can continue. Who was the serpent that caused the temptation and caused Adam to transgress? Hint: the same one who tempted Jesus in Matthew chapter 4.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I'll answer this with a question and then if need be we can continue. Who was the serpent that caused the temptation and caused Adam to transgress? Hint: the same one who tempted Jesus in Matthew chapter 4.

Alright, I'll play. He is satan, formerly known as Lucifer, Arch-Angel.

 

[for_his_glory]

Alright, I'll play. He is satan, formerly known as Lucifer, Arch-Angel.

Correct, as Satan was placed over the garden of Eden as an anointed cherub before Adam was created, but iniquity was soon found in him and it was was Satan in the form of a serpent who caused Adam and Eve to transgress against God.