Those who don't believe in free-will, why do so many verse's claim it??

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Indeed the verse that says that men have no excuse per Romans 1 might just as well be applied as there is no excuse for thinking you have a freewill. Otherwise righteousness is not a gift of God nor is wisdom.

Matthew 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Ezekiel 34:12
As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

None kinda means none doesn't it?

Now, listen to the voice of lawlessness within men make their claims:

Exodus 20:19
And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me -

Luke 12:48
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Hebrews 12:17
For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

s

 

[childeye]

Matthew 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Ezekiel 34:12
As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

Romans 3:11
There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

None kinda means none doesn't it?

Now, listen to the voice of lawlessness within men make their claims:

Exodus 20:19
And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me -

Luke 12:48
But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Hebrews 12:17
For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

s

I get the point. So as you know and have clearly stated, it is not about simply saying repent. It is knowing what true repentance is. Here on this thread we are arguing the definitions of the term repent and the term sin. This brings to mind the reason why scripture speaks of God desiring mercy and understanding, humilty, and honesty. The claim that men's "freewill" is the cause of sin is a blindness that does not see that such a definition of freewill is hypocrisy. The true repentance is to see that we must cling to God in lieu of our freewill\sin. I say it this way because it is troublesome to me that the mind can reason that a man having a freewill is contingent upon sinning. I would rather acknowledge a freewill is contingent upon God setting a man free.

 

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I get the point, so as you know and have clearly ststed, it's not about simply saying repent. It is knowing what true repentance is.

Uh, no. Not at all.

Picture the Gospel in this way if you can, emphasis big on if.

IF the will of man is blinded by the 'god of this world' so they can't believe and Gods Word says repent, what does 'the resistor' of God in that mans mind do? That's right, it RESISTS and gets HARDER.

Look to Pharaoh of the O.T. for a physical example.

Now, take a believer. In them the resistor is pulled back BY GOD to 'allow' belief. The big caveat that NONE of us should forget is that the resistor REMAINS present.

It's not then just a one or the other deal. We remain wrestling with the activity of the resistor(s) upon our minds and hearts even AFTER salvation, and the result of this is pretty obvious on posting boards for example, is it not?

The primary difficulty in 'every' believer is a nearly complete inability to pinpoint that working that REMAINS upon their minds and hearts as something that IS NOT THEM. And such futilely keep trying to ignore that scriptural fact and revolve the entire conversation just 'around man' OR just 'around believers.'

But this is not the scriptural case. The scriptural case is that we have 'enemies' and they are INTERNAL i.e. in our hearts.

It is there, WITHIN, that the 'enemies' must be encapsulated IN FRUIT and that is a working that only God in Christ in our hearts can do.

To do that He will bring DIVISION to your mind and heart (eventually.) That is the 'seed' of Him that gradually takes root and OVERCOMES, even as He is busy chopping down the other tree and supplanting it. That is 'growing in grace.'

I have experienced this phenomena, so it's very real to me. But I also understand that 'it's not my working.' Only God in Christ can bring these things about. It's not any persons to 'take credit' for. That is IMPOSSIBLE.

Here on this thread we are arguing the definitions of the terms repent and the term sin. This brings to mind the reason why scripture speaks of God desiring mercy and understanding, humilty, and honesty. The claim that men's "freewill" is the cause of sin is a blindness that does not see that such a definition of freewill is hypocrisy. The true repentance is to see that we must cling to God in lieu of our freewill\sin.

I agree, but am cognizant that simultaneously the resistors in our minds and hearts continually fights these matters.

When God turns our eyes to see these matters personally, THINGS REALLY CHANGE, and sometimes not for the good. The 'world' does become a radical enemy at that point as the slaves of darkness also GROW in His Light.

These can be difficult concepts to grasp 'personally.' In fact it is problematic because none of us are alone in these matters.

There is us, there is God in us, and there is the tempter. All of these wills operate in the believer.

In the end, we are swallowed up IN LIFE and the other working will be destroyed.

But to make these matters a one or the other deal doesn't work scripturally nor will it ever. God is never just for us. He is also ACTIVELY working against the operations of the TEMPTER in our hearts, and this is GREAT REASON to have Godly fear, and to understand why tribulations and judgments come to us personally. This is the essence of our individual chastisements, because the tempter is factually 'with us all.'

And this is also why JUDGMENT will begin AT THE HOUSE of our Lord, that is IN OUR TEMPLE.

May God flood your temple with HIS LIGHT and cast a CLOUD over your enemy simultaneously!

enjoy!

s