Jim Parker
Member
I think Peter was a fisherman who wasn't very good with a sword.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Thou Shall not Kill Or Murder
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
RANCE ADAMS
Member
I think there's truth in what you're saying. Definitely they have the upper hand. I don't think I'd go as far to say we are almost certain to lose at least regarding that the innocent could could get away (possibly they may not) but we would most likely die, if that's what the attacker wanted. It's not a good situation, and to be clear as far as my belief goes I very well may sin and try to kill the attacker; who knows until they get into that situation. I just know what I believe God would want me to do. Fortunately, at least in America, this is unlikely to happen.
Razeontherock
Member
Just to be clear where I'm coming from, if violence is ever a possibility the very best thing to do is avoid it. Run away. Whatever it takes.
Only when it's completely unavoidable does any of this discussion come into play. In such a situation, even if we "decided to kill" the attacker, we'd probably fail. People are remarkably resilient. Subduing an assailant is enough. Thinking we're going to restrain them until authorities arrive is just asking for trouble.
Hopefully none of us will ever face such a thing. Many on this forum already have. While the murder rate in the US is declining, that's only because medical care is improving.
Only when it's completely unavoidable does any of this discussion come into play. In such a situation, even if we "decided to kill" the attacker, we'd probably fail. People are remarkably resilient. Subduing an assailant is enough. Thinking we're going to restrain them until authorities arrive is just asking for trouble.
Hopefully none of us will ever face such a thing. Many on this forum already have. While the murder rate in the US is declining, that's only because medical care is improving.
Jim Parker
Member
Yeah. Don't count on "It can't happen here."
That's what the people in San Bernadino who were murdered by the Muslim couple thought.
There is a "thing" out there called "evil."
We have MS 13 gangs in the USA.
If you meet this guy, you're probably going to die.RANCE ADAMS
Member
Cite two.
So far you have not supported your opinion with scripture.
WHAT?????? look at post #197 & #198. I can give more scripture if you'd like.
Romans 13:1-4 is a statement that God appoints people to use deadly force when appropriate. That's what is meant by, "...he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil."
That may not fit your theology but it is the theology which God has placed in His scripture.
No my theology is based upon the principles' of Jesus. Again, I repeat God in Romans is telling how things are, not necessarily how He wants His people to live. Again I repeat, God countlessly contradicts the use of violence for Christians. Are you saying one verse that does not support the authorization of Christians (the worldly kingdom yes) but not Christians as part of a different kingdom to use violence overrides dozens if not hundreds of accounts of teachings for Christians to nonviolent? Please look at the foundational theme of Jesus' teachings: absolute love Let me use your logic just once as a huge stretch which I know you will disagree with but look past the ridiculousness of it and see the principle. God has given the state authority to make legal abortion, prostitution, even stealing and other things we could agree are un-Christian. Should we then say it's ok for a Christian, simply because their employer is the government to engage in these things? No, why because it contradicts other principles of Jesus, just as use of violence.
RANCE ADAMS
Member
I live in Texas, I've gone to Mexico for years now and am very aware of the evil at least on the Texas border mostly on the Mexican side. I know of MS 13. Unfortunately evil will always be with us in this life.
Razeontherock
Member
I don't think God gave the State authority to commit our own Holocaust of some 50 million unborn babies. I do see your point but that's a bad example.
Jim Parker
Member
What you cited there had nothing to do with dealing with evil.
It had nothing to do with preventing the murder of innocent people.
You do not seem to be able to understand that acting in love toward your neighbor, even if he's your enemy, is not the same as using whatever force necessary to prevent the murder of innocent people.
So you treat your enemy with kindness and respect but you do not allow him to murder people.
It appears to me that you theology is based on your opinion of what you think are the principles of Jesus.
Jesus is God. He has always been God. God does not change. God authorized the use of deadly force. God commanded the annihilation of evil people in Canaan because of their detestable acts including the sacrifice of children.
God has not changed.
"Love your neighbor" is from Leviticus.
Num 35:16-21
If anyone strikes someone a fatal blow with an iron object, that person is a murderer; the murderer is to be put to death. Or if anyone is holding a stone and strikes someone a fatal blow with it, that person is a murderer; the murderer is to be put to death. Or if anyone is holding a wooden object and strikes someone a fatal blow with it, that person is a murderer; the murderer is to be put to death. The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death; when the avenger comes upon the murderer, the avenger shall put the murderer to death. If anyone with malice aforethought shoves another or throws something at them intentionally so that they die or if out of enmity one person hits another with their fist so that the other dies, that person is to be put to death; that person is a murderer.
God has made if very clear that the use of deadly force to eliminate evil from among you is not just permitted, it is mandated. "That person is to be put to death."
Jim Parker
Member
Only if you permit it to be with you.
Razeontherock
Member
Hmmm, so recently we had another poster claiming he could compare God's opinion on letting guilty people go free, vs capital punishment. Obviously God does have something to say about not letting cold blooded murderers loose to be a menace to society.
th1b.taylor
Member
n
Yep, you must know what love is and te first but John 3:16 and fr that matter ho single verse can stand alone. There is a statement that is handy when reading the scriptures and I have adhered to since shortly after my conversion to the Christian Walk.
No single scripture, no passage of scripture nor any collection of scripture can ever be fully understood without the Light of all scripture shinning on it.
In John 1:1-3 we discover that there is nothing we can see, touch or feel that Yashuah ha'Mashiah, Jesus, did not create. I do not know you except you entered this string and began posting but your study has, as far as I and others here can your study see has been misdirec6ed. And then,from your Sentence Structure it looks as if you do not want Converts but rather to fight your way to your goal. You will render yourself ineffective as a Witness that way.
And then there is the truth that you give no addresses for the basis of your statements. Just as Paul applauded the Berians for checking his preaching against the scriptures, so does any Bible Based Teacher/Preacher. I beg people to never trust me about the scriptures but rather to become a Modern Day Berian and to check evegty word I publish against the Bible.
I am not certain but you appear to cnsider to be one that believes the Old Testamant has been superseded and that is not true. When YHWH made the Covenant with man, Adam, there was but one law and that was that he, not she must never eat of the fruit of the Tree in the center of the Garden.
Then YHWH renewed the Covenant withv Abram and walked with him, Lot and their wives to the Promised Land and instead of tossing the entire deal, wipe out man and to start fresh, just as we that are or have been renew our contracts (covenants) and change or restructure the problem areas, so YHWH has done with His crowning Creation, man. restucture
Each time YHWH has discarded nothing but rather, (progressively (hate to even use that word when mentioning the Holy One) revealed Himself throughout the Bible and each time He has renewed the Covenant, insuring men could access Him through faith.
Now, if you stand where you appear to stand on the issue this will disturb you but it not intended for that purpose. The Bible is divided into two major sections but Jesus, being the Living Word was and remains The Living Word, The Living Bible and Christianity was taught by Jesus and all of His Disciples is the Jewish Bible, a.k.a.the ld Testament.
The world has chopped the scripture books or Scrolls into chapters and the chapters into verses. As soon as the Holy Spirit drilled that into my skull it became crystal clear that the entire presentation, from "In the beginning..." of Genesis through the very last word of Revelation 22, in most versions, is of a single context and that being the Salvation of man.
I pray YHWH opens your spiritual eyes and ears and will bless this to your and to other's hearts.
Yep, you must know what love is and te first but John 3:16 and fr that matter ho single verse can stand alone. There is a statement that is handy when reading the scriptures and I have adhered to since shortly after my conversion to the Christian Walk.
No single scripture, no passage of scripture nor any collection of scripture can ever be fully understood without the Light of all scripture shinning on it.
In John 1:1-3 we discover that there is nothing we can see, touch or feel that Yashuah ha'Mashiah, Jesus, did not create. I do not know you except you entered this string and began posting but your study has, as far as I and others here can your study see has been misdirec6ed. And then,from your Sentence Structure it looks as if you do not want Converts but rather to fight your way to your goal. You will render yourself ineffective as a Witness that way.
And then there is the truth that you give no addresses for the basis of your statements. Just as Paul applauded the Berians for checking his preaching against the scriptures, so does any Bible Based Teacher/Preacher. I beg people to never trust me about the scriptures but rather to become a Modern Day Berian and to check evegty word I publish against the Bible.
I am not certain but you appear to cnsider to be one that believes the Old Testamant has been superseded and that is not true. When YHWH made the Covenant with man, Adam, there was but one law and that was that he, not she must never eat of the fruit of the Tree in the center of the Garden.
Then YHWH renewed the Covenant withv Abram and walked with him, Lot and their wives to the Promised Land and instead of tossing the entire deal, wipe out man and to start fresh, just as we that are or have been renew our contracts (covenants) and change or restructure the problem areas, so YHWH has done with His crowning Creation, man. restucture
Each time YHWH has discarded nothing but rather, (progressively (hate to even use that word when mentioning the Holy One) revealed Himself throughout the Bible and each time He has renewed the Covenant, insuring men could access Him through faith.
Now, if you stand where you appear to stand on the issue this will disturb you but it not intended for that purpose. The Bible is divided into two major sections but Jesus, being the Living Word was and remains The Living Word, The Living Bible and Christianity was taught by Jesus and all of His Disciples is the Jewish Bible, a.k.a.the ld Testament.
The world has chopped the scripture books or Scrolls into chapters and the chapters into verses. As soon as the Holy Spirit drilled that into my skull it became crystal clear that the entire presentation, from "In the beginning..." of Genesis through the very last word of Revelation 22, in most versions, is of a single context and that being the Salvation of man.
I pray YHWH opens your spiritual eyes and ears and will bless this to your and to other's hearts.
RANCE ADAMS
Member
I assume you have a deep desire and commitment for God. Because of that I genuinely appreciate you and your verbal engagement; therefore my disagreement is obviously not with you personally because I don't know you, only the ideas that you hold.
THERE IS NOT ONE VERSE WHICH TELLS, AUTHORIZES, EXPECTS CHRISTIANS TO ATTACK AN ATTACKER, IT SIMPLY IS ONLY IN THE MINDS OF MEN NOT THE WORD’S OF GOD FOR CHRISTIANS.
YOU ARE MAKING A DOCTRINE FROM GOD THAT IS NOT THERE. GOD DID NOT SAY TO KILL ATTACKERS OF OTHER PEOPLE. IT IS BLASPHEMOUS TO IMPOSE A COMMAND THAT GOD DID NOT ORDAIN. THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE TO PROVE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING MUST BE DONE. YOU ARE PUTTING WORDS IN GOD’S MOUTH WHICH IS DANGEROUS.
'What you cited there had nothing to do with dealing with evil.'
You are blatantly denying clear specific scripture. I honestly don’t know what else to do. These forums should be for people willing to study. It is up to each person to study, meditate and think critically upon God’s Word. None of us can post every single point that needs to be made to back up an argument. It takes all of us to study the scriptures. My views I know are in the minority, I also know because they are in the minority I have had to study extensively to defend them. Not just on forums but in front of people, which is a much better way to communicate any idea. Just for the record I am not associated with any organization or person JW, Mormons, Catholics, Martin Luther, John Wesley, John Calvin, John Smith, Anabaptists, etc. My allegiance is to and authority is from God's Word alone
Every single argument I’ve read I’ve heard dozens of times and have honestly studied them. We too easily bring our preconceived ideas into our study of God’s Word and that does not lead us to the truth.
Below I have highlighted scripture (that I have already posted) to prove the idea that you incorrectly stated that “what you cited had nothing to do with dealing with evil.”
Ephesians 6:10-20 .... Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm...
IS THE DEVIL NOT EVIL?
1 Thessalonians 5:12….. See that no one repays another with evil for evil, but always seek after that which is good for one another and for all people....
DO NOT REPAY EVIL WITH EVIL, WHERE DOES EVIL COME FROM, PEOPLE?
DIRECT INSTRUCTION TO ABSTAIN FROM EVERY FORM OF EVIL
Romans 12 & 13 Don’t be conformed to this world; Bless those who persecute you; Never pay back evil for evil to anyone; Never take your own revenge, wrath belongs to God; If enemy is hungry feed him, thirsty, give drink; Overcome evil with good
ARE THERE 2 ABSOLUTES IN THIS SCRIPTURE “NEVER” & “ANYONE”? YES
Romans 12:14-21… Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. “But if your enemy is hungry, feed him, and if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Matthew 5:38-48 ….But I say to you, love your enemies …
Matthew 5:39 "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person..."
Matthew 10:21-…. But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next;…
WHAT IS THE DIRECT INSTRUCTION, NOT TO RETALIATE BUT TO FLEE.
SCRIPTURE I DID NOT POST
Philippians 2:1-8 …. Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.OTHERS ARE TO BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN OURSELVES. BE CAREFUL NOT TO USE SCRIPTURE TO DRAW CONCLUSIONS THAT AREN’T THERE NOR TO CONTRADICT OTHER SCRIPTURE. BY THIS I MEAN THESE VERSES D NOT SOMEHOW GIVE US AUTHORITY TO HARM OR KILL CERTAIN PEOPLE TO PROTECT OTHERS. AGAIN YOU ARE MAKING YOURSELF THE JUDGE AS TO WHAT SOUL IS WORTHY OF DEATH AND NO ONE HAS THAT AUTHORITY.
1 Peter 4:12-19 Beloved, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you; but to the degree that you share the sufferings of Christ, keep on rejoicing, so that also at the revelation of His glory you may rejoice with exultation. If you are reviled for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. Make sure that none of you suffers as a murderer, or thief, or evildoer, or a troublesome meddler;...
GOD NEVER MAKES A DISTINCTION REGARDING US LOVING OUR ENEMY BASED UPON WHAT THEY ARE DOING, E.G. HARMING US OR HARMING ANOTHER PERSON. NO DISTINCTION, WE TREAT OUR ENEMY THE SAME. AGAIN NOT MY WORDS, SIMPLY WHAT IS FOUND IN THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS.
John 16:1-4 ...They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God. These things they will do because they have not known the Father or Me. But these things I have spoken to you, so that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told you of them. These things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.
NO MENTION OF FIGHTING WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO BE KILLED
Romans 5:6-10 .....But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were ENEMIES we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
AS FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST HOW CAN WE ARGUE TO KILL SOMEONE WHEN NOT ONLY DID GOD NOT KILL US WHEN WE WERE HIS ENEMY HE ACTUALLY DIED FOR US, THROUGH JESUS?
2 Corinthians 10:1-6 By the humility and gentleness of Christ, I appeal to you—I, Paul,who am “timid” when face to face with you, but “bold” toward you when away! I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God,...
SO CLEAR A POINT THE APOSTLE PAUL MAKES. HOW TO RECONCILE THIS WITH PHYSICALLY KILLING?
1 Peter 2:21-25 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats,....
FOLLOW JESUS’ EXAMPLE, SPECIFICALLY STATED WE ARE TO SUFFER
"You do not seem to be able to understand that acting in love toward your neighbor, even if he's your enemy, is not the same as using whatever force necessary to prevent the murder of innocent people."
You can't impose your opinion. Where are the scriptures or principles' of Jesus to back up your argument that we act differently based upon who the evil one is attacking?
"Jesus is God. He has always been God. God does not change."
God may not change; however what he expects of man has most definitely changed. His instruction to His people clearly has changed. The point is not how God acts or acted but how we as Christians are to act.
"God authorized the use of deadly force. God commanded the annihilation of evil people in Canaan because of their detestable acts including the sacrifice of children.
God has not changed."
If you want to use God's commands to His people in the OT regarding killing then explain where God instructs us today when to kill/attack, where, how to kill/attack, who to kill/attack etc. God was specific to His people in the OT. Using your same reasoning then explain how we are to know what God wants from us now regarding this?
If you are a rape victim ,do you report thar crime? My sister is.by failing to report a crime ,the rapist may continue.I understand the army method of reportimg on that which is more about victim senativity then it is about whether or not the rapist is caught.they canNT take a rape kit if the victim doesn't want to charge. It's a hard choice ,but it's a sin to press charges,even in.my state where they will recommend the death penalty for minors under 12?
I had to forgive a man who fits that category, my sister lost her innocence.to him ,probably had ptsd ever since .
RANCE ADAMS
Member
Num 35:16-21
God has made if very clear that the use of deadly force to eliminate evil from among you is not just permitted, it is mandated. "That person is to be put to death."
Arguing that the God of the OT has not changed from the God of the NT is not the proper statement. The main concern is what is God’s message to His people; because that most definitely has changed throughout the OT and even into the NT.
This is from the OT which is not how God wants us to live today. Jesus taught us a different way. Using your exact same principle you must follow the teachings in Leviticus, numbers, and Deuteronomy. Can you please address this.
The Old Covenant was based upon God holding up His part of the deal and the people Obeying the Old Law. God’s instruction to the Hebrews/Jews is not the same instruction He has given to His people today through Jesus. We cannot choose which instruction from the OT to follow and use as an argument and which instruction we don’t have to follow
If one wants to admit, rightfully, that the OT speaks of war, violence, destruction, & retaliation; then once must also proclaim the NT plainly commands and exemplifies non-resistance and nonviolence.
James 2:8-13 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.
Galatians 3:6-14 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer. For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Galatians 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
The New Covenant was made with Abraham in the Old Testament
****Galatians 3:15-29 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ. What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made. Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
Ephesians 2:11-22 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “Uncircumcision” by the so-called “Circumcision,” which is performed in the flesh by human hands— remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity. And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near; for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.
Matthew 5:17-19 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
fulfill: consummate (complete, make perfect, bring to completion), accomplish, come to an end, influence fully
abolish: to nullify, abrogate (repeal, do away with, evade), dissolve, destroy, demolish, overthrow law
Hebrews 9:15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant…
Hebrews 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.
Old Covenant is replaced
.....continued on next post
RANCE ADAMS
Member
....continued
2 Corinthians 3:1-18 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, as some, letters of commendation to you or from you? You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
Such confidence we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are adequate in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our adequacy is from God, who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory. Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
Old Law faded away, was surpassed
Romans 8:1-8 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 6:14-15 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
Romans 13:8-10 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Matthew 17:1-8 Six days later Jesus *took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and *led them up on a high mountain by themselves. And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!” When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified. And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, “Get up, and do not be afraid.” And lifting up their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone.
Mark 9:2-8 Six days later, Jesus *took with Him Peter and James and John, and *brought them up on a high mountain by themselves. And He was transfigured before them; and His garments became radiant and exceedingly white, as no launderer on earth can whiten them. Elijah appeared to them along with Moses; and they were talking with Jesus. Peter *said to Jesus, “Rabbi, it is good for us to be here; let us make three tabernacles, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” For he did not know what to answer; for they became terrified. Then a cloud formed, overshadowing them, and a voice came out of the cloud, “This is My beloved Son, listen to Him!” All at once they looked around and saw no one with them anymore, except Jesus alone.
Luke 9:28-36 Some eight days after these sayings, He took along Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming. And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah, who, appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. Now Peter and his companions had been overcome with sleep; but when they were fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men standing with Him. And as these were leaving Him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is good for us to be here; let us make three tabernacles: one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah”—not realizing what he was saying. While he was saying this, a cloud formed and began to overshadow them; and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!” And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone.
God was making the point to listen to Jesus and Jesus alone. The disciples knew who Moses and Elijah were and God made the point that they were no longer the priority, Jesus was now the one who God wanted man to listen to.
Hebrews 1:1-2 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
Transfiguration: Jesus gave us principles. His words and actions shows what God wants from His people today: Christians. No longer the Mosaic or Prophetic Laws
Galatians 3:24-29 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.
RANCE ADAMS
Member
I see Jesus teaching us to obey the state unless it violates God's will/instruction. Each person needs to evaluate this and what situations are in compliance with the principles of Jesus. I have no comment on the specific situation you posted simply because I wasn't in that situation and don't know all the factors to say what I may have done. I had a family member raped, my heart goes out to your sister, you and your family.
That's an avoidance,the laws on a minor being raped is clear is it love to.tell your family member they shouldn't report the crime even if they want to and are willing ?
We often know who is the rapist, my sister was raped by her bf,family friend.
Seldom is it by a stranger .you can't just say you won't know.I'm not suggesting vigilanteism but simply calling the cops upon discovery.they do the rest .arrest,and charge .
If upon discovery of the act you do nothing .my sister said she was raped while I knocked looking for her.if I know I could have stopped him or he would be in prison .my sister might not have had her innocence taken.
Jim Parker
Member
Are you suggesting that they are not the same God?
Are you suggesting that God changes?
Exactly how has God's message changed?
So then we can disregard the 10 commandments?
Can we also disregard Jesus' words? Mat 5:17-18 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
Is all fulfilled? Did I miss the 2nd coming, the general resurrection, and the judgment?
Razeontherock
Member
You are again conflating martyrdom with thugs coming to take your kids to enslave them, rob you blind, rape your wife, and then kill you. And then do the same to all your countrymen. Christianity did not survive that via pacifism, nor would it have been able to.
Christianity survived martyrdom via pacifism. This is on a personal level, against persecution. Not against crime, nor on a National level.
RANCE ADAMS
Member
Did you not read my statement why I have no comment on your specific situation? It's because I was not involved in the situation and don't have all the information. Not sure what your point is towards me. I didn't state one way or the other about contacting the police.