Thoughts on The Book of Enoch

[Faithful4Christ]

Being 15, I am still learning and have many questions. Many of which include the Book of Enoch. As i understand, the Book of Enoch was written by Noah's grandfather (please correct me if I am wrong). The questions that I have for you guys are 1, do you trust it? (What i mean is do you accept it as God's word?)
and 2, why do you think it was left out of His word? Thank you for shining some light on this subject!

God Bless

 

[JohnEboy1983]

I wouldnt go on any scripture outside the bible in my opinion. I dont think God would condemn you for rejecting the book of Enoch which is not in the bible. I believe we are liable for following the things within the bible only and if anything is outside of it, I dont think we can really be blamed for that.

So, 1. No, I dont trust it.
2. I believe God has the ability to include the things he wants in his word, so if the book of Enoch is left out, there is probably a reason for that.

 

[Menno]

Being 15, I am still learning and have many questions. Many of which include the Book of Enoch. As i understand, the Book of Enoch was written by Noah's grandfather (please correct me if I am wrong). The questions that I have for you guys are 1, do you trust it? (What i mean is do you accept it as God's word?)
and 2, why do you think it was left out of His word? Thank you for shining some light on this subject!

God Bless

Before we get into the Book of Enoch, might I inquire as to your interest in the Book of Enoch?

 

[ronniechoate34]

Being 15, I am still learning and have many questions. Many of which include the Book of Enoch. As i understand, the Book of Enoch was written by Noah's grandfather (please correct me if I am wrong). The questions that I have for you guys are 1, do you trust it? (What i mean is do you accept it as God's word?)
and 2, why do you think it was left out of His word? Thank you for shining some light on this subject!

God Bless

I believed that the Book of Enoch was the truth at one time. I think that there is a lot of truth in there but there is also some deception in there as well. That's called disinformation and the devil is heavy into it. He is using it everywhere. How it works is like this. The liars will give you so much truth that you will not notice it when they tell you a lie. You will simply believe them because there has been a trust established already by means of the truth.


So to answer your question let me say that I do not believe the Book of Enoch is genuine. Why not? Because the science presented in the book is not what we know to be true today. However, since it was supposedly written pre-flood who knows what conditions were like at that time.


Hmmm,,,I guess that I could not be certain. This questions requires prayer. Only the Holy Ghost can fill you with this knowledge.


Have you actually read it?

 

[Faithful4Christ]

No, I haven't. I wanted to see what others thought on it before I did, and it looks like that I am not going to; at least until I finish my bible. Then I can check if what is stated in The Book of Enoch is confirmed by God's Word. Thank you for your insight, I just find that stuff interesting for some reason.

Anyway thanks for your thoughts! God Bless

 

[tim-from-pa]

No, I haven't. I wanted to see what others thought on it before I did, and it looks like that I am not going to; at least until I finish my bible. Then I can check if what is stated in The Book of Enoch is confirmed by God's Word. Thank you for your insight, I just find that stuff interesting for some reason.

Anyway thanks for your thoughts! God Bless

Let me tell you something. I admire your curiosity. When I was your age, I was a Christian, but then doubts and fears crept in induced by the Evengelical community itself, and I suppose that caused me to later on dig into the bible deeper and thus come to very different conclusions and beliefs.

In your case, I would start with a thorough knowledge of the Bible first. Apocryphal books such as Enoch must be understood in the light of the bible, but ironically, such books compliment the bible when there is a questionable doctrine on the fence. I often used these kinds of books to clench a decision. For those who say it is not inspired, I would caution that such books were quoted in the bible, so the writers had a fond knowledge of them. The books of Jashar and Jubilees are also interesting reads, but get yourself grounded in Genesis first.

I came to the conclusion is that there is the formal and informal Word of God. It's like a court case---- one can speak in the back room with their lawyers (i.e. apocryphal books), in which a formal case is presented (bible). Both are the words from the same people, but only the formal case is needed. The apocryphal books are merely additional witnesses to God's Truth that He preserved to get a behind-the-scenes look.

I also believe the Word of the Lord is in the Stars (the star and constellation names) and in stone. I've been graced to live on this earth for 50 years and these are the long and hard conclusions I came to. Again, I wish you good spiritual learning in your quest. You are very honorable.

 

[ronniechoate34]

No, I haven't. I wanted to see what others thought on it before I did, and it looks like that I am not going to; at least until I finish my bible. Then I can check if what is stated in The Book of Enoch is confirmed by God's Word. Thank you for your insight, I just find that stuff interesting for some reason.

Anyway thanks for your thoughts! God Bless

Let me tell you something. I admire your curiosity. When I was your age, I was a Christian, but then doubts and fears crept in induced by the Evengelical community itself, and I suppose that caused me to later on dig into the bible deeper and thus come to very different conclusions and beliefs.

In your case, I would start with a thorough knowledge of the Bible first. Apocryphal books such as Enoch must be understood in the light of the bible, but ironically, such books compliment the bible when there is a questionable doctrine on the fence. I often used these kinds of books to clench a decision. For those who say it is not inspired, I would caution that such books were quoted in the bible, so the writers had a fond knowledge of them. The books of Jashar and Jubilees are also interesting reads, but get yourself grounded in Genesis first.

I came to the conclusion is that there is the formal and informal Word of God. It's like a court case---- one can speak in the back room with their lawyers (i.e. apocryphal books), in which a formal case is presented (bible). Both are the words from the same people, but only the formal case is needed. The apocryphal books are merely additional witnesses to God's Truth that He preserved to get a behind-the-scenes look.

I also believe the Word of the Lord is in the Stars (the star and constellation names) and in stone. I've been graced to live on this earth for 50 years and these are the long and hard conclusions I came to. Again, I wish you good spiritual learning in your quest. You are very honorable.

Please do not listen to this.


Listen to this instead.


Jude:1:3: Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.


That's you Faithful4Christ, you need to contend for that faith.


Some of the reasons that the apocrypha were not included as serious scripture are obvious and obviously God did not inspire them.


Here is a list of some of the reasons that the translators did not accept the apocrypha as scripture.


1. Not one of them is in the Hebrew language like the rest of the Old Testament books.

2. Not one of the writers lays any claim to inspiration.

3. These books were never acknowledged as sacred Scriptures by the Jewish church, and therefore were never sanctioned by our Lord.

4. They were not allowed a place among the sacred books, during the first four centuries of the Christian church.

5. They contain fabulous statements, and statements which contradict not only the canonical Scriptures, but themselves. For example, in the Books of Maccabees alone, Antiochus Epiphanes dies three times in three places!

6. It inculcates doctrines at variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection.

7. It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assassination and magical incantation.


This list came from the book Translators Revised and are listed on pgs. 185-186


See?

 

[Faithful4Christ]

First, thank you Tim. Let me say I agree with your court case analogy. If these books did not have truth in them, the Bible would not refer to them. Thank you for the advice. Before I read these books, I will have a thorough knowledge of the Bible as you do. I am very curious on your thoughts of the constellations as well. If you would be so kind as to enlighten me on what you mean, and where you arrived at this idea I would be very greatful!

And thank you Ronnie. I see your concern with the truths of these books.. I do have alot of doubt about them, however when I do read them, I will know what is truth and what is a lie. I suppose these books could have most truth with little lies hidden in the text, making it extremely dangerous, but like I said, I will know when I read a lie. Thanks again for your concern.

 

[ronniechoate34]

I suppose these books could have most truth with little lies hidden in the text, making it extremely dangerous, but like I said, I will know when I read a lie. Thanks again for your concern.

Yes, extremely dangerous. Especially to an impressionable young mind. You may not find yourself so aware of the truth in these things, it is easy to get carried away.

 

[tim-from-pa]

First, thank you Tim. Let me say I agree with your court case analogy. If these books did not have truth in them, the Bible would not refer to them. Thank you for the advice. Before I read these books, I will have a thorough knowledge of the Bible as you do. I am very curious on your thoughts of the constellations as well. If you would be so kind as to enlighten me on what you mean, and where you arrived at this idea I would be very greatful!

You're welcome. I have the faith that you will know how to handle them and I have faith that my God can keep you and me from error and is stronger than the Evil One. Whatever you do, just continue having this faith that God will keep you. I used to listen to warnings and brimstone at your age until I cowered in fear and then I was good for nothing, let alone having true faith. Now, I get my hands on everything and anything, and can discern truth from error. I'm glad God delivered me from all this, and yes, was even given a book like Enoch to read.

As for the constellations, the best thing I can recommend is to read E. W. Bullinger's "Witness of the Stars" written I believe in 1893 and he is the man behind the "companion Bible" comments. It is old and now free of copyrights. You can get his book free online (minus the constellation pictures) here:
http://philologos.org/downloads/downloads.htm (Look about halfway down for the title). This is long so you may want to read a constellation or two a day--- or maybe just part of the book for now to get the idea, but the introduction explaining the zodiac and God's Word therein is important.

I love to read old books from the turn of the last century. They did not have the technology then, but don't kid yourself, these men and women had limited resources to work from and they were actually smarter than we are today! IMO

 

[Clearly]

Faithful4Christ;

I very MUCH agree that you should read and become familiar with the Old and New Testament text FIRST, before studying Enoch. I very MUCH disagree with some of the inaccuracies you are hearing about Enoch.

1 Enoch remains in the Eastern Orthodox Canon since the early Eastern Church developed differently without so much Roman influence, and their canon developed differently as well. For example, a Christian in the Ethiopian orthodox church today (45 million members EASTERN church) WOULD have grown up reading Enoch as scripture in their canon.

Enoch was very popular among Jews who possessed copies of it. For example, Copies of Enoch were found in greater numbers than almost all the other OT books (other than a few - Genesis, psalms, etc) in the Dead Sea Scroll Library, and, I agree with the BAR editor and others, that this library probably WAS the Jerusalem library itself. This library represented approximately 1200 volumes and there were only a few hundred inhabitants of Qumran (i.e. Dead Sea Jews) and so it was extremely unlikely such a vast library belonged to them. The point is that the number of volumes of a particular text is a reflection of the texts popularity and usage just as it in libraries today. Remember, if the copper scroll of dead sea discoveries is authentic, then it placed this group of Jews squarely into Jewish Temple Orthodoxy, along with their doctrines AND their books.

Much of what you are reading in the New Testament may be quotes FROM Enoch. For example, James, the great apocryphologist found over 125 quotes from Enoch in our new testament. Obviously the enoch text was popular with the writers of the New Testament. (however, the versions they had may have been different). It is quoted by the writer of Jude as scripture and was quoted in many other early Judao-Christian texts as well.

However, the idiom and clarity of doctrinal themes in Enoch are foreign to western Christians and so they may be "disorienting" to you without being grounded in biblical themes FIRST. The themes covered in Enoch are however, Quite wonderful and very, very clear. For example, the pre-creation "council" text where Enoch discusses the "Choosing of the messiah" by God, the father of spirits is quite wonderful. The handling of the war in heaven and Lucifer's rebellion is also expanded over western Christian fragments of the story. The Concepts of delegation of tasks by God to others is more clear in Enoch. If you want some quotes from enoch as clear doctrinal examples of what I mean, let me know. There are corrupted and poorly translated and missing portions as well.

I think that western christianity became increasingly uncomfortable with anthropomorphisms of Enoch, and the descriptions of the Father and the Son as distinct and separate individuals and so excluded it from their canon. For the ancient eastern Christians, such themes were much more comfortable and orthodox, especially the "Eastern" arians (who believed in a greater separation of God the Father from the Son) "Western" athenasians. The Eastern church kept Enoch in their canon.

In any case, good luck in your spiritual journey. Read the bible first.

Clearly
eitzvim

P.S. Enoch is NOT part of the apocrypha as ronniechoate34 seemed to indicate, it is grouped in the Old Testament Pseudoepigraphs in the Charlseworth volumes and earlier collations as well, and, as I said, it IS in some eastern old testaments just as their New Testament contains books the western new testament does not.

 

[Lewis]

The thing is, if you are well grounded, in the Bible, you can read these other books without a problem. I have a book called the Lost Books Of The Bible, which are the Apocryphal books, and I also have the Quran for comparisons, and I have not strayed of course yet. It is good to have a knowledge of all these books, so you can know what is out there, and as well as teaching other Christians about these things. When some of the things in these books match with the Bible, then it is the truth, and if it does not, it is as simple as that. Warning the reading of the Apocryphal, books as well as the Quran, is for well grounded people only, reason" it could throw you off course. But when you become well grounded, nothing can throw you off course, reason" because you know the truth, and you know how to research the truth. And ronniechoate34, what you said about Tim, was not fair, from my stand point, that is just my