Tithe

[Nick]

LaCrum,

I too find the only way for me (and many others at my church) to get into a habit of regularly giving is to give a set amount. But I think the point is that we don't have to tithe anymore - we are not bound by the Law. I think the NT encourages mroeso giving from the heart, but I don't think it's opposed to tithing. Sometimes I think for me discipline-wise, at the moment it's either tithing or nothing, espeically since the money goes out to the church automatically from my accont. I find this works best for me.

 

[Guest]

I bit off topic, but I give both time and money, both as I feel moved to do so, and not just to the church I attend.

I think sometimes we can feel if we give a set % then "we're all paid up" so to speak, and while some pastors in some churches are very talented at walking the line of Christian obligation to giving, I firmly draw the line in the faith teaching of giving - I'E...The, "give and you'll get more back", message. Often worded as "You can't out give God!"

While that may be, it's often twisted to the churches advantage for the upcoming new parking lot or latest building expansion.

If someone wants to give to that ....fine, but I've seen scripture slanted to fill such direction and inject guilt while the pastor drives off in his new BMW sports roadster. Again, if someone wants to support a church in that way, fine. I just don't want my money supporting the effort to do just that alone. I'd hand $5 to a bum and pray for him before I'd give the same amount to some churches.

aint that the truth.
Some guy I used to work with came to work boasting one day that his church was putting in a new GYM....uh....WHAT ????
So I asked how much.....ONE and 1/2 MILLION dollars.
I nearly spit out my drink...

 

[Guest]

Using ten percent as a guideline could be flat out wrong for the following reasons:

1 - God gave us The Holy Spirit. Using an OT law for a guideline is following the guidance of the law instead of following The Holy Spirit.

2 - Prayer is not involved when using a set percentage. There is no heart involved. It is done out of habit.

3 - Using a set percentage might actually restrict how much you give.

4 - If times are tough, sticking to a set percentage might result in bills not getting paid. That goes against Biblical teachings.

Now, IF The Holy Spirit directs you to give a tenth of your income, then you should do it.

God does NOT bless Christians for keeping Old Testament laws. God does bless Christians for giving. God knows the heart. Many give from the heart but make the mistake of calling it tithing.

I agree with pretty much the whole post, its just that if one doesnt know where to start 10% is a good place till they get their bearings.

Where I start cracking up is when they ask 'off the net or gross'
I try not to think about it too hard. Breaking out a calculator is, in my opinion, too much thought

 

[Pard]

The church I attend has deep pockets, but it is a VERY small church, like maybe 20 people who show up on a weekly basis.

They received their large sums of money through an amazingly smart land grab. They moved to a new location and bought about 20 or 30 acres of land. Ten years later they sell the vast majority to a developer and rake in the dough.

The money only goes for good things like church events (buying study books, and such), missionaries, community charity, and financial help to church members in need.

I bring this up to show two things

1.) Tithes are not the only way for a church to make money

2.) Not all rich churches are big and not all rich churches use the money for selfish means.

 

[Guest]

1.) Tithes are not the only way for a church to make money

Absolutely agree.

For instance, I do a lot of webmastering of my own, then also for a few Church websites, the money they save by my donating the work is well into the thousands per year given the size of the sites and the number of frequent changes made.
Not having to put that money out is, in essence, helping them stay ahead elsewhere since they dont have to earmark money for web mastering.
If people with skills can contribute things......mechanics fixing the church bus and the pastors car for no labor for example, then thats that much money they dont have to shell out for those things with the net result of being further ahead financially than they would have been .

2.) Not all rich churches are big and not all rich churches use the money for selfish means.

Very much agreed.
The one church site I web master is a pretty small church, but they do really well money wise and they are very careful about how the money is spent. I figure if Im going to do web mastering for free, I want to know that they are being godly in their finances otherwise.

 

[Elijah674]

Using ten percent as a guideline could be flat out wrong for the following reasons:

---
Elijah here:
God was wrong?? I have heard that before in Gen. 3 :verysad (one best comply with Rev.'s last few verses of warning)
---

1 - God gave us The Holy Spirit. Using an OT law for a guideline is following the guidance of the law instead of following The Holy Spirit.

---
King Saul was given the Holy Spirit as well. 1 Sam. 10:6-10 & in 1 Sam. 16:14 the Holy Spirit DEPARTED from Saul & satan controled him! See Gen. 4:7 forum + 1 Sam. 28:6's FACT! Even Samuuel had came in previous personal warnings.
---

2 - Prayer is not involved when using a set percentage. There is no heart involved. It is done out of habit.

---
One best read the CONDITIONS for any prayer! Isa. 59:1-2 + Matt. 4:4's requirement along with promised prayer that satan quoted almost Word for Word to the WORD HIMSELF! ibid. 5-6! And Christ GAVE [US] THE CONDITION FROM O.T. Deut. 6:6.
...

3 - Using a set percentage might actually restrict how much you give.

---
Again forum: OFFERINGS are not Tithe in the O.T.
---

4 - If times are tough, sticking to a set percentage might result in bills not getting paid. That goes against Biblical teachings.

---
And not taking the mark of the beast could find one not being able to buy or sell too huh? forum! If Christ has not ALL OF ONES [[WILL]], He cannot have it in just part! Acts 9:6! See also Dan. 3:16-18 & some are concerned with Tithe & Offerings??
---

Now, IF The Holy Spirit directs you to give a tenth of your income, then you should do it.

God does NOT bless Christians for keeping Old Testament laws. God does bless Christians for giving. God knows the heart. Many give from the heart but make the mistake of calling it tithing.

--
Then 'these posts' are again saying that God's 'EVERY WORD' Matt. 4:4 + 2 Tim. 3:16 'ALL' Inspiration is again LIEING in Mal. 3:10-15 as in Gen. 3:3.
Have it 'that' Gen. 4:7 way if that is your desire?
--Elijah
--

 

[Elijah674]

And Matt. 23:3 finds these ones of today NEGATING Christ VERBAL INSPIRATION, what is New He Asks? Eccl. 3:15 NOTHING much!

--Elijah

Again, Elijah....the references to the tithe are pretty much all in the past tense and Jesus was a Jew under the LAW just as the others were....of course they would have obeyed the law.

You seem entirely unwilling to accept the facts that have been presented to you and apparently prefer your out of context error that handwaves away what you dont want to see....so its all on you, friend.
You WANT error and error is what youre going to get.

Thanks for your very Born Again concept. Christ documented John 3:3 for just the past/tense Nic also you document!.
--Elijah

PS: Forum. Let me just add this with the above about Jesus being a Jew and under the Law (His!) What is being stated is that O.T. [Eternal Heb. 13:20 Conditions] are not now needed. (bottom/line) Yet tithe & offerings are not the Eternal Ten Commandment Covenant. But what about Christ's O.T. [TESTIMONY]? (Isa. 8:20's last part of the verse)

OK: Christ the Jew in Matt 4:4 said otherwise! Man is to live by [EVERY WORD OF GOD]. But NO! this is just for the Jew one teaches. And Yes, 2 Tim. 3:16 says that [ALL SCRIPTURE] is to be used for DOCTRINE as well. That is N.T. with both Jew & Rom. 2:28-29's Born Again Jew, huh! But the main point is Christ still on this side of the cross for the Jew 'one' says!
In verse 6 ibid. we had already found what our 'spiritual diet' was to be, (All 66 Books!) But here satan himselfs QUOTES almost Word for Word to Christ the Word Himself HIS OWN PROMISE FROM Ps. 91:11. And this is a O.T. PROMISE, HUH!

satan said: 'It is written, He SHALL GIVE HIS ANGELS CHARGE CONCERNING THEE: and in their hands THEY SHALL BEAR THEE UP, least AT ANY TIME THOU DASH THY FOOT AGAINST A STONE.'
Almost Word for Word from O.T.! And this was just for the O.T. Jew ones because Christ was Jewish. That my friend is utter foolishness!

And where did the Eternal/Christ/God QUOTE FROM to give [you & 'i'] ETERNAL TRUTH?? He QUOTED O.T. Deut. 6:16 that [[[MANKIND]]].. 'THOU SHALT NOT TEMPT THE LORD THY GOD'.

What 'bugs' me is that most of these 'tempters' know no more of what 'seperates' required tithe's & [Freewill] offerings are, to begin with! See Ezra 7:13-16

 

[GaryArnold]

Those that support the tithe aren't following God's definition nor His ordinances.

Leviticus 27:30-33 - God's definition for His tithe. Either follow it, or don't tell me you are tithing.

Numbers 18 - God's ordinances for His tithe. Either follow them, or don't tell me you are paying your tithe to God.

Those who argue Abraham gave a tithe before the law - what does that have to do with the law or after the law? Abraham gave a tenth of war spoils, but the later law required 2.2% of war spoils, not a tenth. Apparently Abraham was NOT following the law, nor was what he did brought forward into the law.

Now, BE HONEST. Who on this forum is following God's definition and ordinances for tithing? Who on this forum is following Abraham's example of giving a tenth of war spoils and keeping NOTHING for himself?

Some of you do nothing but rationalize and come up with so-called principles that don't exist. Laws are defined and limited. God didn't command anyone to give back to Him a tenth of wages or any other type of income. Peter wasn't required to give a tenth of the fish he caught. The farm workers weren't required to give a tenth of their earnings. Carpenters were required to give a tenth of what they made or earned.

There is NO example to show that Abraham ever tithed other than the one time, and that was on war spoils which Abraham, himself, said didn't belong to him, and he kept nothing.

All it takes is a study of the history of tithing to see that tithing, as it is taught today, started in the second half of the 1800s.

 

[Pard]

All it takes is a study of the history of tithing to see that tithing, as it is taught today, started in the second half of the 1800s.

The article I linked in the OP would tend to back your point. Allow me to quote the article,

http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/tru ... ithing.htm

TITHING ACCORDING TO GOD

1.1 Paraphrase of God's Commandments on Tithing to the Israelites

One tenth of all your income is Mine, and it is holy unto Me. (Ref. Lev.27:30) Therefore, I, as the rightful Owner of the 10% of your every pay cheque, command you the following:

a) Take the tenth portion of your pay cheque, which is Mine, go and have fun. Spend it on you and your family, for whatever your heart desires.(Ref. Deu.12:5-7; Deu.12:10-12; Deu.12:17-18; Deu.14:22-26)

b) However, do not forget those whom I have called into My ministry and those who are poor: take 10% of your every THIRD pay check and do not spend it on yourself and your family, but rather give it to them. (Ref. Deu.12:19; Deu.14:27-29; Deu.26:12-13)

c) Remember: one tenth of your income is My holy tithe, and you MUST NOT use it for ANY unclean thing, that is, for ANYTHING, but for what I have commanded you. (Ref. Deu.26: 14)

Observe the above commandments so that you may learn to fear the Lord your God, and I will bless you and I will prosper you in everything that you do. (Ref. Deu.14:23; Deu.14:29)

In other words, God said: "Throw in a party - and I'll pay the bill. However, do not forget those whom I have called into my ministry, and those who are less fortunate than you - and I will bless you."

 

[GaryArnold]

The article you quote is NOT at all correct.

The writer of that article obviously has no accounting background or he would know that the tithe was NEVER on income. The tithe was ALWAYS on assets. BIG difference.

The article is full of misinformation. A simple, easy to understand, free book download goes into the difference between assets and income, and then analyzes the tithe completely. Check it out at:
http://www.TithingBook.info

 

[Guest]

For a refresher..



Seems that pretty much every mention of the tithe AFTER Jesus died to ratify the NEW covenant is in Hebrews 7

But observe how great this man was, to whom even the patriarch Abraham gave a tenth from the spoils. And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to collect tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brothers, though they have come from the loins of Abraham; but the one not tracing his descent from them has received tithes from Abraham, and he has blessed the one having the promises. Now without any contradiction the lesser is blessed by the better. And here on one hand mortal men receive tithes, but there on the other it is witnessed that he lives. Even Levi, the one receiving tithes, has paid tithes through Abraham, so to speak, for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.
(Heb 7:4-10 EMTV)

We have two tithes here from what I can see.
- One was Abraham giving a tenth of the SPOILS of WAR.....anyone fighting a WAR here ?
- The second was for the LEVITES to be collected ACCORDING TO THE LAW...anyone under the LAW here ?

other than the gospel references to the tithe BEFORE Jesus died to set this new covenant into place, thus making the old obsolete (of no use), there really isnt anything in the NT and certainly NONE of it shows that the NT church is to tithe.

 

[Elijah674]

There is quite a lesson for the ones who will Obey their Master or have a new master here in Gen. 4. Some want to teach your OBEDIENCE is Jewish so just dump it, it seem's?? But don't miss the Word of DESIRE!

Gen.4
[1] And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
[2] And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
[3] And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an [offering unto the LORD.]
[4] And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. [And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:]
[5] But unto Cain and to [his offering he had not respect.] And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
[6] And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
(It matters not what the disobedient sin is, in mature time the person will pass into this next verse, at least in bottom/line principle! Eccl. 12:13-14-Matt. 6:24)

--Elijah

[8] And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.