Tongues

[n2thelight]

This Bible Study is written by Roger Christopherson, and made available with written permission by http://www.theseason.org


This chapter is one of the most mis-taught chapters from God's Word. To teach it as most people do would make me a lot more popular but as a teacher of God's Word I am compelled to teach this chapter, not to offend or defend anyone, but to teach it accurately as Paul wrote it. So open your mind to the Scriptures.

I Corinthians 14:1 "Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy."

Remember from the last chapter we studied, "charity" is "love". If you don't have love in your heart, then you don't have anything. Love brings honest and hope, and it endureth all things in our caring for our people. Paul urges us to desire the spiritual gifts or things.

Lets go to the Strong's Greek dictionary #4395 to understand what Paul is saying about "prophesy". "propheteuo, prof-ate-yoo'-o; from 4396, to fortell events, divine, speak under inspiration, exercise the prophetic office:"

Did you get the meaning of this word "prophecy"? "to speak under inspiration", and to "fortell events" of prophecy that God has revealed to the prophets of old that are written down in His Word. It is to always speak under the divine guidance from the Word of God. It is to use your gift of God as a teacher of Gods Word, not to jabber from your own mind, but to reveal God's Word to others exactly as it is written from the manuscripts.

There is going to be a time in the future when Act 2 will come, and men and woman alike will speak as the Holy Spirit speaks through them. Peter said that this is the time that Joel the prophet spoke of in Joel 2:28-32 when both men and women shall prophecy.

Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see vision:"

Joel 2:29 "And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out My spirit."

The book of Joel is prophesy of that time when Satan and his locust army of fallen angels will be cast onto the earth, for the time of the great deception. So this time of prophesying will come while they are here deceiving mankind. After that Locust army of fallen angels has passed, then prophesying will take place. Many clergy say today, "woman can't prophesy", however God says even the daughters will prophesy. This writing then, is written to those living in the final generation that is on earth just prior to the coming of the Lord, during that generation of "the parable of the fig tree". That generation started when the Jews [brother Judah with the Kenites] returned to reestablish their homeland and reclaim Jerusalem. That generation is now, and you are living in that generation. The one world system of the end times is here and now, and they control of all parts of your life is through their agencies or ten horns of power that flow from the United Nations.

Joel 2:30 "And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke."

Joel 2:31 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come."

Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call."

The point that we should consider here is that we should judge no one, because this doesn't have to be a prophecy as most people consider "prophecy". Prophecy to foretell the future is only one of the parts, but simply to teach the Word of God under the guidance and inspiration of the Holy Spirit is also a form of the word "prophecy". So though love is essential to our Christian life, prophesy is another of the top gifts.

I Corinthians 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries."

"Mysteries" as given in the Greek text is "divine secrets"; so why would he be speaking in divine secrets? Note also that the word "unknown" was added by the translators for it just wasn't there in the early manuscripts. Another word "tongue" also come in here and in Strong's Greek dictionary it is # 1100. "Glossa, gloce-sah'; a language, (specifically, one naturally acquired)."

"Tongue" as given in this chapter is one language that you have naturally acquired by learning. So the tongue that Paul is talking about is a language that is not your natural tongue, it is one that you have acquired outside your home. Remember the great commission that Jesus gave; to take the gospel to the world. If Christians could only speak English, then the other peoples of the world simply would not understand what the gospel was all about.

When we try to study the Bible for the truths within its pages, it is a must to have some reference to the original languages of Hebrew, Chaldee and Greek for that is the tongue or language that God's Word was written in. Translators have taken those foreign languages and tried to relate their meanings in English so that the common man could read the Word of God within his own home. This is why when we study the Word for ourselves is it important to have the Strong's numbered concordance and Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek numbered dictionaries right along with it so that we can understand exactly what God intended us to know. An example of this is above in the word, "tongues"; "glossa" in the Greek, and in the true translation "languages" in the English.

So one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is to be able to learn another tongue or language than you were brought up with, so that you can teach someone who is not of your language. There are many neighborhoods that have their common language other than English right here in America. There are Spanish neighborhoods, Chinese, and so on, and if you were to go into those people and present the gospel in English, many of them simply would not understand what you are saying.

The reason that it is saying that if you do go out and speak in a place where everyone is of another language then only God would understand; is that only God and the Spirit of God understands all languages. He caused the confusion into the languages at the tower of Babel, and when the true tongue of the Holy Spirit is spoken, it will be as it was at Pentecost. This tongue shall be spoken again when the Elect are brought up to give account of themselves, as recorded in Mark 13:11. When the Holy Spirit's tongue goes forth, every person around the world will listen to it and understand it at the same time and in the very dialect of their neighborhood. This is what is called the "cloven tongue". The "cloven tongue" needs no interpreter for it comes directly from the Holy Spirit.

Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

The time that this shall happen is in our generation, just prior to the coming of the Lord. We are not to spend one moment thinking of this time, or in fear of what we should say, for at that moment the Holy Spirit will place within our minds the things that we should say. When the Holy Spirit speaks it will be through our mouths, but His Words.

Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them."

"Cloven tongues" are many different languages, and the time it is spoken is when one filled with the Holy Spirit speaks. There will be no confusion to anyone as to what is said, for everyone that hears will understand in his or her own language. The Chinese, Spanish and English listeners could standing be side by side, and each would hear the words spoken in their native language. That is the cloven tongue of the Holy Spirit. This is something entirely different than what Paul is speaking of here in I Corinthians 14. When the "cloven tongue" goes out in all directions it is understood with clarity no matter what language you are in. However here in I Corinthians 14 Paul was referring to one that was speaking in a language whereby the listeners did not understand what was being said to them.

Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost [Spirit], and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."

Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven."

This was the time of the feast of Pentecost, and the Jews came from all over the world to be in Jerusalem during the feast of Pentecost. Though they all probably spoke Hebrew, their native tongue was the tongue of the place where they resided in, and had their everyday conversations in. The other tongues are the languages where there can be no misunderstanding what is being said, for it is the tongue of their family and friends back home. There is nothing unknown about it to anyone, and when you hear that tongue, it is the evidence of the Holy Spirit within you, who are Spirit filled.

Acts 2:6 "Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and was confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language."

Even a child can understand that when the Spirit of God spoke here that every person, all the people understood. No matter where they were from in the world, they heard the words with clarity. This is what dumfounded them, for it had never happened before. This is why Peter reminded these devout Jews of what the prophet Joel spoke of back in the Old Testament writings. It was a sample of what would come about in the last generation just before the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. It will be the time when the sons and daughters are going to be delivered up before the false messiah, Satan the Antichrist.

Acts 2:7 "And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, "Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans?"

Acts 2:8 "And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? "

These Jews not only heard in their on language but in the very dialect of the neighborhood that they were born. This is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. It is this tongue that will come upon those that are delivered up to fulfill those prophesies of Mark 13:11.

So Paul in I Corinthians 14:2 is addressing something entirely different than what was spoken of in Acts 2. He is not addressing the speaking in the "cloven tongue", but he is saying that if you go out and try to speak and teach without the gift of languages, the ability to speak and understand the grammar of another language, that all you would be doing is causing confusion. Those foreigners listening to you would not even have enough knowledge to say "Amen", and know when you were finished.

I Corinthians 14:3 "But he that prophesieth speaketh unto me to edification, and exhortation, and comfort."

The only reason for your teaching and prophesying in the first place is to build men up in the faith, to exhort them to live a better life, and to give comfort where it is needed. The words that you are teaching are the Words of Almighty God. It is not something that you have made up, but words that come from His Word and given under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Many today feel that they should be letting themselves go and speak and allowing strange uttering. They think that is the voice of the Holy Spirit, but it is quite the contrary. When the Holy Spirit speaks, there is no confusion in any mind present, but just plain common sense.

I Corinthians 14:4 "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifeth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church."

If I went to a foreign land and taught this chapter in English, where no one knows the English language, the only one that would be built up by what I said would be me. However, if I went to a church that spoke English and taught in the English, the entire church would be edified or built up by those same words. If you are truly teaching the Word of God to the body of Christ and speaking in their language, then they would gain from what you would say.

I Corinthians 14:5 "I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying."

Paul is saying that he wished that all of his brethren there in Corinth could speak in as many languages as I can speak. However, I would rather that you would be gifted teachers in the Word of God, then to speak in many languages and not be able to teach. In other words, if someone that teaches under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit desires to teach in another tongue, do it with the same emotion, devotion and love that you would in your native tongue. If you cannot do this, then find an interpreter that is also filled with the Spirit of God, and have him interpret so that the church may receive the edifying when they hear you. The whole point that Paul is saying here is that if you can't be understood, then you will not be doing much good. It is just plain common sense.

So what is the subject here, what are you saying? The subject is stated in verse twelve also, for it is taking for the gifts of teachering, evangelist, faith, and all the other gifts that take forth the gospel of Jesus Christ to the lost. However you can have all of these gifts, but as we saw in I Corinthians 13:2; "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all the mysteries and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."

Without love you will not be a true carrier of God's Word, and the people that you are trying to teach will see right through you. So now Paul will continue on, after he has considered "charity" the taking for of the gifts to reach lost souls. That is the great commission, and the subject. The thought is to communicate with human beings, children of God around the World that do not speak in the same language that you speak, so that they may hear the beautiful gospel of Jesus Christ.

I Corinthians 14:6 "Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?"

Paul is saying that if I come to you with great revelations and knowledge speaking in a in a language that that you do not understand, what will it profit you? Of course if you cannot understand what is being said in that foreign tongue, it will be nothing more than a turkey call. You wouldn't know if it was prophesying, doctrine, or knowledge.

I Corinthians 14:7 "And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?"

The "distinction in the sounds" is what we call notes of a song. You have heard the old voice lessons, do, ra me, fa, so, la, te, do; the purpose of each note is to give a distinct sound to each note. Each of these notes have a meaning and is a sign to the singer of the sound that is to be made at that instant. The scales give out a message to be followed, and when you combine all the notes in the order and time sequence required, it makes for a beautiful song. It then means something to the listener.

However when the cat runs over the keys on a piano a sound is still made, only the noise is out of order with no sense or meaning. Instead of being pleasing, it becomes irritating. A lot of times when people speak out of order, not thinking of what they are trying to say, you have the same results. The Christian world today tries to be so spiritual as they mimic others around them, only the results are the same as the cat on the piano keys; full of confusion and out of order.

This is why it is important to teach and study God's Word as it is written, so that we can give order to our lives from God's Word. When you try to mock what mankind has established as the language of the Spirit of God and it is not real, then you become mocking the Holy Spirit and it becomes man's traditions. So what Paul is trying to tell us is that if you don't talk in the language that your listeners understand, you are just like the piano giving out a bunch of strange noises.

I Corinthians 14:8 "For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?"

In the military, the trumpet is used for everything from getting up in the morning, to the raising and lowering of the flag. When the troops are ready to charge into battle there is also a distinct sound of the trumpet that prepares the troops for battle. The notes are sharp, and clear with a definite sound. There is no confusion in a soldier's ear that it is time to get up, nor is there any confusion to the raising of the flag. When the trumpet is sounded, you know exactly what to do, and you had better be sharp in getting to attention. It is no different today than it was in Paul's day.

If you have thousands of men ready to do battle and the trumpet sound is nothing but a mixture of many notes without any conformity, the troops won't know whether to charge, go to bed, or salute the flag. Intelligent people that are in tune with God's Word, know the instruction of His Spirit when it is given.

I Corinthians 14:9 "So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air."

It is no different in your teaching, except in your communication you speak the language that the listeners understand, it will be nothing but confusion. Why would you ever go and teach if there is no one to listen to you. All you are doing is blowing wind into the air. If you try to use the turkey gobble that many churches use today, and call it of God, there is no clarity in the sounds that are muttered, but only confusion to the listener. That so called "speaking in tongues" has nothing to do with the fourteenth chapter of First Corinthians. There will be an awesome price to pay for mocking the Holy Spirit, and claiming something came from God's Spirit, when it did not; and the Greek text makes this so clear. Every teacher must deal with this barrier of the "glossa", or the foreign language. In that the Holy Word of God is written in Hebrew, Chaldee, and Greek, the teacher must continually be going to the text, and the dictionary to be able to relate the meaning of the verses in a simple manner for understanding.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

Ever since 1906 Azusa Street Revival in Los Angeles, from which the current Pentecostal and charismatic movements flow, speaking in tongues has been the subject of controversy. Some of the confusion concerns the nature of the gift. One idea is that tongues is a mode of utterance that can be understood by anyone regardless of his native language. Another is that tongues are a "private prayer language" that is uniquely created by the Holy Spirit for each tongues-speaker.

Neither idea is correct, and both stem from a failure to appreciate what the word "tongues" means. Contemporary English speakers often look on the term as if it were mysterious and hard to understand. It's not. When discussing speech, "tongues" has a simple and established meaning. It just means "languages." Obviously, the word tongue can refer to the physical organ in our mouths. This organ is part of human anatomy, and every language has a word for it. But because of the association the tongue has with our power of speech, the tongue is invariably used as a metaphor for the manner of speech. Thus in almost every language the word for tongue is the same as the word for language. We speak of "the Spanish tongue," "the French tongue," and so forth. Over time, this usage became less common in English, and the word "language" has become dominant. That is why the term "tongues" can sound mysterious. We don't use it to refer to languages most of the time anymore. Today, for English speakers, "tongue" more often will bring to mind the physical organ rather than the idea of a language.

Confusion is also caused by the fact that English Bibles switch back and forth between "tongue" and "language," even though they are translating the single Greek word glossa. It would be clearer if they were consistent in using the term "language," allowing us to talk about the gift of languages and to read in our Bibles of the apostles and the early Christians speaking in languages. By keeping in mind that this is what Scripture means, we more easily can understand what "tongues" is. It is an supernatural endowment by which one is able to speak in another language. One may not understand what one is saying (Paul suggests that people should pray to be able to interpret what is said in tongues; 1 Cor. 14:13-14). The content of one's speech is determined by the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4), so one's own understanding is not essential, as it is in normal speech. This corrects the first misunderstanding of the gift: If tongues could be understood by all listeners, no matter what language they spoke, then Paul would not exhort people to pray for the gift of interpretation.

The second misunderstanding of the gift-that tongues is a spontaneous, Spirit-created "private prayer language"-is rebuffed by the text of Scripture. As the multinational crowd gathered on the day of Pentecost showed, the languages in which the apostles spoke were real human languages that could be understood by anyone who spoke them (Acts 2:11). This has prompted some Pentecostals and charismatics to assert that the gift of tongues in Acts is different from the gift of tongues mentioned by Paul, but there is no basis for that. The claim would appear to be rooted in many Pentecostals' and charismatics' awareness that what they are speaking in is not a real language (not to say that the gift of tongues doesn't occur; it does, just not as frequently as some claim). Paul nowhere hints that the phenomenon he refers to as "speaking in languages" (Greek, glossais lalon, from which we get "glossalalia") is different from the phenomenon his companion Luke referred to by the same name when writing Acts.

Paul speculates that a person might be given the superlative gift of speaking a language used by angels (1 Cor. 13:1). But, in context, it is not clear that Paul thinks it a real possibility. He posits it as the greatest imaginable kind of tongues, parallel to knowing all mysteries and knowledge (the greatest imaginable extent of prophecy, 13:2a), having faith that can move mountains (the greatest imaginable gift of faith, 13:2b), and giving away all one's possessions and delivering one's body to be burned (the greatest imaginable expression of selflessness, 13:3). Paul isn't saying that speaking in angelic languages occurs (or even that angels have languages). He is using Middle Eastern hyperbole to say, "Even if I could speak in the tongues of angels, that would not profit me if I did not have love."

He portrays speaking in languages of angels as something that would be extreme and rare, if it occurs at all. That means tongues normally will be ordinary human languages. They certainly would not be unique, divinely-invented languages for the believer and God alone-something that would be even more special than angelic languages

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1998/9804chap.asp

 

[AVBunyan]

The Gifts

All right – tongues – easy if you take the Bible as it stands and understand how God deals with Israel as a nation. Most make issue of prayer languages, interpreter or not and never cover what tongues are really for. Let’s get down to the basics. Remember, God deals with Israel as a nation differently than he deals with the body of Christ today.

According to the Bible tongues are for a sign (1 Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign,…). The verse didn’t say tongues were for your personal edification, prayer time, public worship service, etc. Tongues are for a sign. Now, who require signs in the Bible? The Jews require a sign (1 Cor 1:22 For the Jews require a sign,….). Why did the Jews require a sign? It was a part of their history. When God and Moses had their conversation at the burning bush Moses said (and I paraphrase), “They are not going to believe me.†The Lord said, “I will give you some signs to authenticate your ministry.†Moses went to them and did signs and wonders and they believed. When the Lord came to Israel in the gospels he came with signs to authenticate his ministry and some believed. In fact the Pharisees came seeking a sign - Mat 12:38 “Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.†After Christ arose he gave the apostles the signs to authenticate their ministries they went about doing signs and wonders.

Next, tongues were not for believers but for unbelievers – “not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: - I Cor. 14:22. This is the clincher. Moses went to Jews who were unbelievers of his ministry. Jesus went to an unbelieving Israel with signs. Paul went to unbelieving Israel with signs. Also, the Jews were “unbelievers†in the sense that they did not believe that God would not bless the Gentiles. In Acts 2 where the signs and wonders took place Peter preached to thousands of “unbelieving Jews†and they believed after the message with signs and wonders (Acts 2:43).

Today tongues are used in churches for believers – in other words done for the edification of the speaker or hearer, which is contrary to I Cor. 1:22 and 14:22 (note both verses are 22 – can’t beat the book!)

Now, when you use your “tongues†in your church service are there any unbelieving Jews there? Maybe and maybe not but most likely not. When you are using “tongues†in your private prayer closet are there any unbelieving Jews there?

Let’s wrap it up – When God deals with Israel as a nation he uses signs and wonders as authentication. God is not dealing with Israel as a nation today – God is dealing with individuals. Tongues are for a sign and to unbelievers, not believers. Tongues are a sign of judgment to the unbelieving Jews. Also, unbelievers are “believing “ Jews in Acts who were didn’t believe the Gentiles could get in on the blessings.

Tongue speakers are not following this today one bit. I really don’t care about how good tongues feel to you and how excited you get when you utter your “tonguesâ€Â. When you pray and speak in tongues are you doing it as a sign to unbelieving Jews? I don’t care if you saw millions at once speaking in tongues. What you saw were millions of deceived people led by an unclean spirit. They may be nice, polite, Bible-quoting people but they were deceived while they were nice, polite and quoting scripture.

I know you have a lot of verses you get from I Cor 14 but remember Paul is rebuking a carnal church of a misuse of a doctrine to the point where he calls them children in malice. Why you think you can find anything positive there to support your tongues beats the fire out of me.

Don’t judge tongues by your experience – judge your experience by the Bible. Anybody can think they speak in tongues. I’ve even seen people “practicing†their tongues so they wouldn’t lose them! Please, people! The great men of God of old wouldn’t and didn’t mess with that stuff for a minute and God used any one of them more then 10,000 tongue speakers today.
But you say, “Yes, but I still know what I know and I spak in tongues and others do so that proves it!†Fine, base your doctrine on feelings and experience and ignore the plain teaching of scripture.
Again, one last time with feeling – UNTILL YOU UNDERSTAND THAT GOD DEALS WITH ISRAEL AS A NATION DIFFERENTLY THAN HE DOES WITH THE BODY OF CHRIST TODAY THEN YOU CAN FORGET UNDERSTANDING THE GIFTS!

 

[n2thelight]

Here is the bottom line,if anyone were to speak in tongues and I cannot understand what was said,it is not of the Holy Spirit.True tongues of the Spirit does not requirer an interpreter.

The next time true tongues will be spoken is when the elect are delivered up to satan

Mark 13:11 "But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost [Spirit]."

When this time comes into being in the very near future, it will not be the elect of God that does the speaking, but the Holy Spirit speaking in and through the mouths of His elect. Every one of these individuals will be delivered before these false councils before the final day of this earth age. This is why Peter would say to the people in Acts 2, on Pentecost day; "This is that which was spoken of by Joel the Prophet."

Acts 2:16: "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;"

We can read this prophecy in Joel 2:28-32. These sons and daughters shall speak in a cloven tongue, as recorded in Acts 2:6; meaning that the language that they shall speak in will need no interpreter, for every one that hears will hear in their native tongue of the dialect of the neighborhood they grew up in. This is the way that the gospel will go forth in the last days, for it is the evidence of the presence of the Holy Spirit. These sons and daughters will speak, as stated in Mark 13:11, but whatsoever words they do speak in that hour, it will be the Holy Spirit that speaks through them.

Acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days,' saith God, `I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and you old men shall dream dreams:"

Acts 2:18 "And on My servants and on My handmaidens I will pour out in those days of My Spirit; and they shall prophesy:"

Acts 2:19 "And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:"

Acts 2:20 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:"

Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.' "

When the sons and daughter speak, it will be heard in every language and dialect in the world. This will not come from the mind of those people, but those people shall be willing witnesses that allow God to speak directly through them to the people. Thus the true gospel of Christ will be spoken. These trials will be made public to the world, and it will be as the two churches of Revelation 2:9; and 3:9 taught, and it is important that you know exactly what they did teach.

Those churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia taught about the synagogue of Satan, about those that claimed to be of God, of Judah, but lied and were not. These churches taught how you would know and identify who the Kenites were. Those Kenites claimed to be of Judah [Jews] but were a bunch of liars, who in fact were nothing more than the sons and daughters of Satan. They were members of the synagogue of Satan, they are the Kenites that are taking over the entire religious community, and it is time to wake up. We will be delivered up into their synagogues and tried before them. This is part of God's plan, whereby God can speak through you by the Holy Spirit.

 

[sonlover]

Many interesting theories of what tongues is.
All I know is that Paul did it and said it was for the
edification of the church, and he said it's
'talking' to God.
Maybe there ARE two types of tongues, as in a
Spiritual "gift" and as in the type at pentecost.


2 For if you have the ability to speak in tongues,* you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.

3 But one who prophesies strengthens others, encourages them, and comforts them.
4 A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

5 I wish you could all speak in tongues, but even more I wish you could all prophesy.
For prophecy is greater than speaking in tongues,
unless someone interprets what you are saying so that the whole church will be strengthened.

But since there are as many opinions of tongues as
there are posts, I'd say most of us are incorrect in
our theories.

sonlover

 

[Free]

You beat me to it sonlover. A very careful reading of 1 Cor. 14 is necessary for a complete understanding of tongues.

True tongues of the Spirit does not requirer an interpreter.

That's not what Paul says in 1 Cor 14:

1Co 14:13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret.

1Co 14:26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
1Co 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.

Today tongues are used in churches for believers – in other words done for the edification of the speaker or hearer, which is contrary to I Cor. 1:22 and 14:22 (note both verses are 22 – can’t beat the book!)

But not contrary to several other verses in 1 Cor. 14 (see below).

I know you have a lot of verses you get from I Cor 14 but remember Paul is rebuking a carnal church of a misuse of a doctrine to the point where he calls them children in malice. Why you think you can find anything positive there to support your tongues beats the fire out of me.

The problem with this argument is that it ignores that Paul is also instructing the Corinthians on proper use of tongues and prophecy. The whole point is that the gifts were being abused, not that they were false. Paul wants them to speak in tongues and prophesy but done decently and in order, not in the chaos that was typically happening.

You also state "Don’t judge tongues by your experience – judge your experience by the Bible." If one reads what Paul is actually writing in 1 Cor. 14, the experience matches up perfectly with what he is writing, in regards to himself and his experience.

Key verses:

1Co 14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

1Co 14:4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.

1Co 14:15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
1Co 14:16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say "Amen" to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?
1Co 14:17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
1Co 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
1Co 14:19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

1Co 14:39 So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

 

[n2thelight]

Free on Thu May 22, 2008 8:33 pm

You beat me to it sonlover. A very careful reading of 1 Cor. 14 is necessary for a complete understanding of tongues.



onelove wrote:
True tongues of the Spirit does not requirer an interpreter.

That's not what Paul says in 1 Cor 14:

1Co 14:13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret.

1Co 14:26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.
1Co 14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.

You are missing the meaning of the verses

I Corinthians 14:13 "Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret."

Let him that speaks in an unnatural language pray that what he says will be interpreted properly. Before you go to speak to foreigners, pray that God will give you the understanding of that language before you go. If you go without this preparation, you are wasting your time.

I Corinthians 14:14 "For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful."

If you pray in a language that your mind doesn't understand, then of what benefit is your prayer. You uttered words that mean nothing, and have created nothing but noise. When you pray to the Father, know exactly who you are praying to and for what purpose. However if you are just muttering words and sounds that have no meaning, your prayer is in vain. In short, you have to be able to communicate, before people know what you are saying. Remember that this chapter is dealing with teaching those that are foreigners to you, and those that do not speak your language. The ability to communicate is a gift from God.

I Corinthians 14:15 "What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."

When you pray you must be in tune with the Holy Spirit, and your mind must have the understanding of what you are doing. Paul is saying that when he prays in the Spirit, or sings songs to the Lord, he will do it in the tongue or language that gives him understanding of what he is praying and singing. This is just common sense, for you use the language that you know and are accustomed with, when you pray, sing, teach or talk to others. In this way you will be fruitful in what you are doing.

I Corinthians 14:16 "Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say "Amen" at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayeth?"

When you are speaking in English and the rest of the non-English speaking people have no idea of your thoughts, they simply will not know when it is time to say "Amen". It is hard to understand why anyone cannot understand this chapter and what Paul is saying, with just a little effort. Paul is telling us that if we cannot communicate with another person to were they can understand what we have to say, then just don't say anything.

I Corinthians 14:17 "For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified."

If you are praying and give thanks in the presence of foreigners, then they have not gained on thing from your prayer. In fact they have no idea of what your even talking about.

I Corinthians 14:18 "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:"

Again Paul is referring to the many languages that he spoke. Paul was a Roman, and spoke Latin, and as a Jew he was trained in the Hebrew, Chaldee and the Greek. His father came from Tarsus which is in Turkey of today, and that gave him another tongue, so we see that Paul was fluid in many languages through his home and training.

I Corinthians 14:26 "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying."

When the whole body of Christ comes together, each of you have something that is important to share with the congregation. Instead of allowing confusion take hold, let one speak at a time, so that the whole congregation can be built up spiritually through the Spirits working in each of you individually. Paul is telling them to put order to their services. God is not the author of confusion, but of peace of mind. Your services should be done with dignity, and with the thought of the unlearned and unbeliever in mind, to bring them to Christ and allow them to grow in His Word.

I Corinthians 14:27 "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret."

If we are an English speaking audience, and teachers or evangelists comes into our midst speaking in unknown languages: Let there be no more than two or at the most three speak, for when they do speak there must be someone that can interpret what is being said. The reason is obvious, for if someone is speaking in a foreign language, and then the congregation has to wait for the interpretation, it is very distracting. There is a lot of emotions lost in the translation from the speaker to the translator, and the waiting for the translator's words. What is said is quite often mishandled by the translator. This is a good way of driving the people away from the church.

I Corinthians 14:28 "But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God."

If a person comes into your church and he doesn't speak your language nor is there a translator, then let him be quiet in the church. God can read his mind and know his thoughts, but don't let him be a distraction from the service where others are being taught.

 

[n2thelight]

In every occurrence of "unknown tongue," in the New Testament, the word "unknown" is an added word (italicized in the KJV) by the translators to make the English readable. It is not in the Manuscripts!

Below is the "tongues" of the book of Acts, and as you can see there was nothing "unknown" about it!

Acts 2:4
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (KJV)

other: Greek word #2087 heteros = other or different:

Tongues: Greek word #1100 glossa = a language (specially, one naturally unacquired)

When they spoke this tongue, everybody understood it, the Scripture lists 18 different languages that understood it AT ONCE! Not like today's so-called tongues where only another possessed person can think that he understands it. The Pentecostal Day (Acts ch. 2) tongues were heard and understood by all languages:

Acts 2:4-11
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. (KJV)

 

[AVBunyan]

Please answer the simple questions below.

1. Are tongues for a sign according to:
1 Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign,
Yes or No?

2. Do the Jews require a sign according to:
1 Cor 1:22 For the Jews require a sign,
Yes or No?

3. Are tongues for those that believe not according to:
1 Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Yes or No?

Are you a believer? Yes or No?
If Yes then tongues are not for you. I Cor. 14:22 - to them that believe not

Are you an unbelieving Jew during the early Acts period? Yes or No?
If no then tongues are not for you.

According to the above three verses the scriptures conclude:
1. Tongues were for a sign.
2. Tongues were tied in with the Jews for they require a sign.
3. Therefore tongues were for a sign to the unbelieving Jew who had rejected Jesus as their Messiah.

The bible is very simple if we take it as it stands for whom it was written to for the time period it was intended for.

 

[stranger]

AVBunyan wrote:

1. Are tongues for a sign according to:
1 Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign,

Yes

2. Do the Jews require a sign according to:
1 Cor 1:22 For the Jews require a sign,

Yes

3. Are tongues for those that believe not according to:
1 Cor 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Yes

Are you a believer? Yes
If Yes then tongues are not for you. I Cor. 14:22 - to them that believe not

These are immediate context questions - they do not prove the wider contextual considerations.

Are you an unbelieving Jew during the early Acts period? Yes or No?
If no then tongues are not for you.

The reasoning here serves your purpose but is not how I would reason since it can be argued that most of the scriptures are intended for Jews - and since I am not a Jew - it was not intended for me. Faith requires we learn from how God deals with others who are not like ourselves.

I understand tongues as 'language' and have heard one instance where I dare cast no stones. Language has many forms and as a poet - I know that not all bother to make an effort to understand 'psalms, hymns and spiritual songs'.

According to the above three verses the scriptures conclude:
1. Tongues were for a sign.
2. Tongues were tied in with the Jews for they require a sign.
3. Therefore tongues were for a sign to the unbelieving Jew who had rejected Jesus as their Messiah.

The bible is very simple if we take it as it stands for whom it was written to for the time period it was intended for.

I would think that while the earlier church was primarily Jewish - by the time Paul addressed the Church at Corinth there were already many gentile converts. Therefore I would say he was not addressing Jews exclusively. The preaching of the gospel in the early church was attended with signs. Bear in mind wherever an authentic sign occurs - it will 'draw' false (demonic) signs in abundance to conceal and confuse. I am as concerned about the absence of signs in the preaching of the gospel as I am of false signs that mimic the truth.

So if signs are for unbelievers does that mean that prophesy still continues since it is by reasoned inference (not scripture) that prophesy as a gift has ceased today?

 

[n2thelight]

True tongues are a sign for the unbeliever period,Jew or Gentile.What does a nonbeliever get out of something they can't or no one else for that matter understand?

The sign that true tongues give is that there is no doubt whatsoever that the Holy Spirir is speaking through me and thats because of the fact that I would be speaking multible languages at the same time,which is only possible through the Holy Spirit.

And that will confirm the message that will be taught when this happens again,when we are delivered up to satan.

I don't mean no harm or disrespect but what is being referred to as tongues these days,is nothing more than babble

 

[AVBunyan]

1. So if signs are for unbelievers

2. does that mean that prophesy still continues since it is by reasoned inference (not scripture) that prophesy as a gift has ceased today?

1. Read the verse - tongues were for sign to unbelievers (Jews who rejected Jesus) - gifts is another subject.

2. Prophesy died out as...
a. God moved away from his dealings with Israel as a nation in the book of Acts:
Acts 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
Acts 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Acts 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

b. The perfect man came - Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

c. The scriptures were completed.

 

[awaken]

1 Corinthians 14:21-25
"In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord. Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"" (1 Corinthians 14:21-25)

Here is an important point in this passage:
Paul seems to contradict himself in this passage. First he says that tongues are a "sign" for unbelievers, but then he says that if unbelievers see people speaking in tongues, the unbelievers will think that the believers are out of their minds.

It turns out that "uninterpreted tongues" have been used in Israel's history as a sign to the unbelieving Israelites that God's judgment had come upon them. Paul was quoting a prophecy from Isaiah 28:11-12:

"Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues God will speak to this people, to whom he said, "This is the resting place, let the weary rest"; and, "This is the place of repose"-- but they would not listen." (Isaiah 28:11-12)

This prophecy was fulfilled when the Assyrian army swooped down upon Israel speaking a foreign language (an uninterpreted tongue), carrying Israel off into captivity. Paul used an example from Israel's history to show that uninterpreted tongues are sometimes used as a "sign" for unbelievers that judgment has come upon them.

Then Paul pointed out that if an unbeliever enters a church where Christians seem to have lost their minds, the unbeliever would not see this as a sign of impending judgment. This is why Paul said that prophecy is much more beneficial during a church service.

 

[follower of Christ]

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. (1Co 13:8-12)

WHEN tongues cease, so shall prophecies fail...its a package deal.
This all happens when the perfect has come, when we know as we are known, when we see 'face to face'...

Paul also says that we arent to forbid speaking in tongues,

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order. (1Co 14:39-40)

so I dont see evidence that they have ceased, but they clearly were and ARE for a sign for those who need to SEE evidence of some sort.

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. (1Co 14:20-22)

They were a sign to the Jews, to Peter and to others, but thats all tongues really are...a sign gift for those who NEED to SEE to BELIEVE.

Paul also says this just prior to that last quote;

Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
(1Co 14:20)

So my guess is that Paul would be telling a LOT of tongues pushers today to stop being children/immature but to be mature in their understanding as to what tongues was/is for.