[__ Prayer __] Too Formal or not?

[Johann!@#]

that's persevence of the saints .

That’s right--we’re called to persevere until the end. Christianity isn’t about passivity. Now, take a look at the tenses of salvation, please, Jason.

J.

 

[RandyK]

TULIP? So you lean to Calvin's Institutes and theology? Correct me if I'm wrong please.

And I fully agree NO one is perfect in his/her "theology" and I noticed there is an undue focus on eschatology rather than Christology.

Paul emphasizes the foundational nature of the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:3–4 (NASB):
“For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.”

The Greek verbs παρέδωκα (paredōka) - I delivered, and ἀνέστη (anestē) - He was raised, highlight that the core message of the gospel is rooted in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Paul also urged believers to maintain unity around this truth in Ephesians 4:4–6 (ESV):
“There is one body and one Spirit-just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call-one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”

The Greek verb ἐκλήθητε (eklēthēte) - you were called, shows that our unity is grounded in one faith and one Lord, not in perfect theological alignment on every issue.

In Romans 14:1 (NASB), Paul advises, “Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.”

The Greek verb προσλαμβάνεσθε (proslambanesthe) - accept, calls for welcoming fellow believers despite differences in understanding, particularly when it comes to secondary matters.

Unified by the Gospel--
While we may have differences in theology, the essential truth of Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection should unite us as believers. Dividing over non-essential theological points weakens our testimony, while standing firm on the core gospel message brings glory to Christ.

Let’s stay focused on that! Wouldn't you agree?

This is the "Hill" I will gladly die for--thanks for the chat brother.

J.

I would agree that *arguing* over non-essentials weakens our testimony. But I wouldn't say that discussing peripheral matters has no value or negative value.

There are some matters that bear working with, and meditating on, if only because God put it in His word. It may not be the number one issue, but if it is in the Scriptures there must be some value to it.

So if we only focus on the cardinal doctrines that constitute our "orthodoxy," to the neglect of some of the finer points of doctrine, then I believe we'll be missing out on some important elements.

Just as in vitamins or fertilizers there are some essential ingredients critical to the life of the person or vegetable. But there are also trace elements without which life suffers in a variety of ways. We don't want that, right?

It's all in how we argue these matters, whether it can be done in a Christian, edifying manner or not. I'm sure you feel the same way.

Beyond discussion of mere doctrines, and checking off those boxes, there is something called "maturity." The author of Hebrews wrote that we should be able to actually move beyond the critical, beginning doctrines to begin life's journey towards ever greater maturity. If all we can do is discuss doctrine, we will deal less on life's lessons, attitude, character-building, and relations with others.

And of course, we need to add to our knowledge (of doctrine) faith and love for God. As Bryan Duncan sang, "Into my heart and out of my head."

You've got me shakin', time out
I thought I had You figured out
But I've been mistaken somehow
Thought I'd learned the truth by now
I guess I've been thinkin' way too much
Could be I'm out of touch

Gotta get You
(Into my heart and out of my head)
Sometimes they're just so far apart
(Into my heart and out of my head)
I need Your help to find a way
Into my heart

I keep my distance, my pride
Such a clever place to hide
What a sad existence in my mind
Another precious waste of time
The best way to change my mind I've found
And turn my life around

 

[RandyK]

These generalizations will not do. As such, I deny that it is a bad thing, at least not always. Much more clarification

Free, my bad--I meant to write, I don't think anybody would *claim*--not "deny." I can understand your confusion about what I wrote. I said the opposite of what I meant! ;)

The 1st paragraph should've read:

Liturgical worship--sacramentalism or genuine?
I don't think anybody would *claim* that repetitious statements of love and worship for God is a bad thing. If for no other reason, repetition fixes an idea in our minds--something we need to do in our worship of God.

Or, it could read:

Liturgical worship--sacramentalism or genuine?
I don't think anybody would deny that repetitious statements of love and worship for God is a *good* thing. If for no other reason, repetition fixes an idea in our minds--something we need to do in our worship of God.

Can you fix this for me? We are given only so long to edit our posts. And I'm very prone to making these kinds of errors. Thanks for catching it!

 

[jasonc]

That’s right--we’re called to persevere until the end. Christianity isn’t about passivity. Now, take a look at the tenses of salvation, please, Jason.

J.

under our power ?

 

[Free]

I completely agree with your points, brother. I've read plenty of negative reviews about joining online forums, and I've been banned from most U.S. forums myself. I’ve already received warnings here too--it almost feels like you can’t question anyone without risking backlash.

There is nothing against questioning anyone. The problem arises when discussion violates the ToS.

 

[Johann!@#]

There are some matters that bear working with, and meditating on, if only because God put it in His word. It may not be the number one issue, but if it is in the Scriptures there must be some value to it.

So if we only focus on the cardinal doctrines that constitute our "orthodoxy," to the neglect of some of the finer points of doctrine, then I believe we'll be missing out on some important elements.

Neglect some of the finer points of doctrine-please clarify.

Just as in vitamins or fertilizers there are some essential ingredients critical to the life of the person or vegetable. But there are also trace elements without which life suffers in a variety of ways. We don't want that, right?

Could you explain that a bit more? I’m not really into analogies.

It's all in how we argue these matters, whether it can be done in a Chritian, edifying manner or not. I'm sure you feel the same way.

Of course I do. Is there something in my discussion with the brother that you feel isn’t edifying?

Beyond discussion of mere doctrines, and checking off those boxes, there is something called "maturity." The author of Hebrews wrote that we should be able to actually move beyond the critical, beginning doctrines to begin life's journey towards ever great maturity. If all we can do is discuss doctrine, we will deal less on life's lessons, attitude, character-building, and relations with others.

And I fully concur--

Heb 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this we will do if God permits.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
Heb 6:8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner.
Heb 6:10 For God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love which you have shown toward His name, in that you have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Heb 6:11 And we desire that each one of you show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope until the end,
Heb 6:12 that you do not become sluggish, but imitate those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
The Certainty of God's Promise
Heb 6:13 For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself,
Heb 6:14 saying, "SURELY BLESSING I WILL BLESS YOU, AND MULTIPLYING I WILL MULTIPLY YOU."
Heb 6:15 And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
Heb 6:16 For men indeed swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute.
Heb 6:17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath,
Heb 6:18 that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us.
Heb 6:19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil,
Heb 6:20 where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

We are under tremendous persecution here brother, in South Africa, and would appreciate how you want me to interact with the brother without "checking the boxes"

I would welcome your input and directives.

You've got me shakin', time out
I thought I had You figured out
But I've been mistaken somehow
Thought I'd learned the truth by now
I guess I've been thinkin' way too much
Could be I'm out of touch

Gotta get You
(Into my heart and out of my head)
Sometimes they're just so far apart
(Into my heart and out of my head)
I need Your help to find a way
Into my heart

I keep my distance, my pride
Such a clever place to hide
What a sad existence in my mind
Another precious waste of time
The best way to change my mind I've found
And turn my life around

Shoot straight with me brother, I can handle it.

J.

 

[Johann!@#]

There is nothing against questioning anyone. The problem arises when discussion violates the ToS.

Just sharing my thoughts, thinking out loud--is this against the ToS?

J.

 

[Johann!@#]

under our power ?

Please clarify, what is your train of thought here Jason.

J.

 

[jasonc]

Please clarify, what is your train of thought here Jason.

J.

we by our power can stop being angry ,hateful and that without the Holy Spirit even know we are ,work out that walk without the Holy Spirit well in my case letting life suck do that I had to see things .

God would never in some views deny blessings ,Allow consequences to change us even cancer ,job loss etc .

 

[Johann!@#]

we by our power can stop being angry ,hateful and that without the Holy Spirit even know we are ,work out that walk without the Holy Spirit well in my case letting life suck do that I had to see things .

God would never in some views deny blessings ,Allow consequences to change us even cancer ,job loss etc .

Okay, Jason, as much as I’d like to continue this conversation with you, I’m under constant "supervision" and close scrutiny, which isn’t helpful for either of us. The Terms of Service are hanging over my head, and I’ve received a rather odd message--it almost feels like doctrine doesn’t matter here.

I can relate to you because, here in South Africa, we’re facing real challenges--war and persecution, frequent power outages, and water cuts. I wanted to share more with you, not from a place of pride or acting like a "know-it-all," but just from my life experiences. Unfortunately, this ongoing interest in my discussion with you isn’t making things easier, especially with the constant "supervision."

Besides, it’s 1:48 in the morning here.

I could use some guidance on how to have a conversation with another member without running into issues.

Until then, I will be just an observer.

Shalom.

J.

 

[jasonc]

Okay, Jason, as much as I’d like to continue this conversation with you, I’m under constant "supervision" and close scrutiny, which isn’t helpful for either of us. The Terms of Service are hanging over my head, and I’ve received a rather odd message--it almost feels like doctrine doesn’t matter here.

I can relate to you because, here in South Africa, we’re facing real challenges--war and persecution, frequent power outages, and water cuts. I wanted to share more with you, not from a place of pride or acting like a "know-it-all," but just from my life experiences. Unfortunately, this ongoing interest in my discussion with you isn’t making things easier, especially with the constant "supervision."

Besides, it’s 1:48 in the morning here.

I could use some guidance on how to have a conversation with another member without running into issues.

Until then, I will be just an observer.

Shalom.

J.

text is hard to see intent or read .

 

[Johann!@#]

text is hard to see intent or read .

What do you mean Jason?

J.

 

[jasonc]

What do you mean Jason?

J.

I can post dark humour on my war time experience but kinda hard to show how I deal with the drama I saw .
my face might ,body language would show it .

 

[Johann!@#]

I can post dark humour on my war time experience but kinda hard to show how I deal with the drama I saw .
my face might ,body language would show it .

I’m not quite following you, but that’s alright.

J.

 

[jasonc]

I’m not quite following you, but that’s alright.

J.

hard to project body language in text

 

[Johann!@#]

hard to project body language in text

Are you afraid of death? Does it make you feel uneasy?

J.

 

[jasonc]

Are you afraid of death? Does it make you feel uneasy?

J.

no,just that the fact is we'll see babies have arms swollen for an infection from a vaccine ,how much blood a person can loose while walking miles after being shot and having an entry and exit wound of a pea . hear men dying from kidney failure from their own decision .
and much more

it will affect you . my nature is to do as I trained. act and not feel . my wife got that once and her daughter when she fell and I told them just get in the car and drive to the ER for stitches . my wife was alert ,she could respond to you ,no need to have the emt ,just bandage the forehead and I described how the Emt would check for a concussion . observe for fluids coming from the ears ,nose and mouth . check pupil dialation.

my wife was to alert IMHO for that and had no fluids of such just a gash . my distant ,command to do and act has no emotion.you can't .

you will freak out . problem is later ,years later when you are away from the environment the emotions surface .


last time they paid me a visit was when I watched. by choice warfare and I was shouting reactions to be taken .tourniquete,Ied hit ! lead ,take charge lt!

I knew it might hit and was able to control it .

 

[Free]

Just sharing my thoughts, thinking out loud--is this against the ToS?

J.

You tell me.

 

[Johann!@#]

You tell me.

What's your issue with me Free?

J.

 

[Free]

What's your issue with me Free?

J.

What makes you think I have an issue with you?