Topic #2: Was Satan "a liar from the beginning"?

[Strangelove]

I have a reason to FEAR GOD...knowing that He DOES work adversely with the workings of the DEVIL in ME.

dig?

Um....I don't have the devil in me so...no.....I dont dig.

(queue smallers stock response in next post..."you may claim you dont sin, I make no such claims...." blah blah...lather....rinse....repeat)

 

[smaller]

Um....I don't have the devil in me so...no.....I dont dig.

(queue smallers stock response in next post..."you may claim you dont sin, I make no such claims...." blah blah...lather....rinse....repeat)

Yep. Just remember every time you have an evil temptation, 'IT'S ONLY ME.'

That is how deception works, and slaves are not scheduled to know it. They can't.

 

[Strangelove]

Yep. Just remember every time you have an evil temptation, 'IT'S ONLY ME.'

That is how deception works, and slaves are not scheduled to know it. They can't.

But you DO know it, so that would mean you're NOT a slave to satan correct?

(**hoping for, but prolly won't get a straight answer**)

 

[smaller]

But you DO know it, so that would mean you're NOT a slave to satan correct?

(**hoping for, but prolly won't get a straight answer**)

Honesty is the first sign of separation from iniquity.

 

[Alabaster]

Can you post these scriptures?

And, does that mean that Satan WASN'T "a liar from the beginning"?

Read Ezekiel 28:13-19.

Satan was indeed a liar from the beginning of earth's development and the creation of man. THAT is the beginning that the Lord speaks of.

 

[Strangelove]

Honesty is the first sign of separation from iniquity.

So you're not a slave to satan correct? You are seperated from iniquity yes?

(straight answer preferable)

 

[Strangelove]

Taken from the other thread:

Jesus called those Pharisees CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL because THEY HAD DEVILS in them. Jesus talked to those men and SPOKE TO DEVILS in them.

yet you could put these matters in front of 100 believers and perhaps NONE will take this information 'personally' because OFFENCE is instantly fostered IN THEM.

It's not offence smaller. It's just that believers tend to go with scripture rather than with the personal interpretations of a very odd bloke.

smaller says we have the devil within us ----> Scripture says we sin which is OF the devil.

smaller says we all have antichrist within us ----> Scripture says only those who deny Jesus is the Christ are antichrist.

smaller says we all have darkness in our hearts ----> Scripture says believers are full of light with NO darkness therein.

smaller says the mark of the beast is darkness...ergo we all have the mark ---> Scripture says some will not take the mark.

You see....when you are so fundamentally wrong with your theology as compared to scripture, ppl tend not to listen to you.

And theres more contradictions to come in this thread if you can muster the courage to give me straight answers to my questions, which I doubt you will lest the list lengthens further. :toofunny

 

[smaller]

Taken from the other thread:
It's not offence smaller. It's just that believers tend to go with scripture rather than with the personal interpretations of a very odd bloke.

Yeah, you certainly would prefer to accuse me of being an odd bloke rather than to see the reality of the matter eh?

smaller says we have the devil within us ----> Scripture says we sin which is OF the devil.

And you can whine 'smaller says' all the day long as well. Take your measure to the word of the Apostles:

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

smaller says we all have antichrist within us ----> Scripture says only those who deny Jesus is the Christ are antichrist.

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

smaller says we all have darkness in our hearts ----> Scripture says believers are full of light with NO darkness therein.

1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

smaller says the mark of the beast is darkness...ergo we all have the mark ---> Scripture says some will not take the mark.

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

You see....when you are so fundamentally wrong with your theology as compared to scripture, ppl tend not to listen to you.

I don't expect the slavemasters of people to agree with scripture. It can't happen. That does not prevent me from sharing HIS LIFE BREAD with my brothers.

And theres more contradictions to come in this thread if you can muster the courage to give me straight answers to my questions, which I doubt you will lest the list lengthens further. :toofunny

Just go up in the thread and eliminate any scripture you please.

The facts won't be leaving the Word anytime soon.

s

 

[Deavonreye]

Read Ezekiel 28:13-19.

Satan was indeed a liar from the beginning of earth's development and the creation of man. THAT is the beginning that the Lord speaks of.

Those verses make it sound like this being was destroyed. "...you have come to a dreadful end and shall be no more forever".

Also, . . . why would an angel care about being adorned by temperal material?

 

[Alabaster]

Those verses make it sound like this being was destroyed. "...you have come to a dreadful end and shall be no more forever".

Also, . . . why would an angel care about being adorned by temperal material?

I guess you need a course on prophetic revelation. Ezekiel speaks of the final demise of Satan, which shall come to pass.

Satan's values are all skewed. He is the embodiment of selfish pride.

 

[Deavonreye]

I've seen many "prophetic revelations". . . .and they are unconvincing. They are either misinterpretation, misunderstanding, or read into in order to vaguely look like an event that happened later.

As for this verse, I see nothing that looks "prophetic".

 

[Alabaster]

I've seen many "prophetic revelations". . . .and they are unconvincing. They are either misinterpretation, misunderstanding, or read into in order to vaguely look like an event that happened later.

As for this verse, I see nothing that looks "prophetic".

When you 'hang with' a Godly crowd, the prophetic is generally frequent and accurate.

 

[Strangelove]

Yeah, you certainly would prefer to accuse me of being an odd bloke rather than to see the reality of the matter eh?



And you can whine 'smaller says' all the day long as well. Take your measure to the word of the Apostles:

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.



2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.



1 John 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.



1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.



I don't expect the slavemasters of people to agree with scripture. It can't happen. That does not prevent me from sharing HIS LIFE BREAD with my brothers.



Just go up in the thread and eliminate any scripture you please.

The facts won't be leaving the Word anytime soon.

Yes I'll eliminate all that scripture because none of it backs up your erroneous assertions. I'm not gonna waste my time dancing the tango with you on those issues smaller. I've already proven you to have two left feet with regard to your devil within.

I'll just ask for your answer on the question asked before.

If you are the only person on these boards who comes to these conclusions...does that mean that you are the only one who is not a slave to satan and are in fact...seperated from iniquity whereas the rest of us are handcuffed to it?

Is that what you are saying?

 

[Deavonreye]

When you 'hang with' a Godly crowd, the prophetic is generally frequent and accurate.

Well, I'm glad you're enjoying it.

 

[Deavonreye]

But getting back to the topic .. . .

John 8:44 "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

I would like some scripture to show how and when the devil's beginning started.

 

[stovebolts]

The beginning references Genesis 3... It's really that simple D.

 

[Deavonreye]

I don't think it is that simple. "From the beginning" and "in the beginning" are being seen as "the same thing" when there isn't a way to know for certain. If it had said, "from the beginning of creation of the world", similar to the "slain from the foundation of the world", then you could surmise this, but it seems that from SATAN'S beginning he was an evil force [according to the bible].

 

[stovebolts]

Jesus was Jewish, and he was talking to the Jews.
By the time a child was 9 years old, they had the entire torah memorized verbatim. By 12-13 many of them had the entire OT memorized verbatim including the oral tradition. Knowing the story was very, very important to their lives (Deut 6) as it is still to this day. Hey, there are still Jews around today, dont' take my word for it, many of them still have the entire OT w/ oral tradition memorized verbatim.

I am sorry that the wording is not as specific as you would desire, but rest assured, to whom Jesus was speaking to, they understood his words to be referring back to the creation account... It's what they knew,and understood.

Simply put, Jesus wasn't saying what he said to a gentile such as yourself who knew little to nothing of Torah or oral tradition. Had he been speaking to the gentiles.... well, he would have never said that.

So, you can continue to view the words of Jesus as you do, or you can take a step back, enter into the story and read it the way it would have been received. You're choice, but you're only arguing with yourself ;)

Oh... and as far as Satan being portrayed as Evil in the OT, he was viewed more as a tempter and an accuser. How else could he have approached YHVH in the account of Job?

 

[Sinthesis]

It might be useful to think of satan as a personification of man's predilection to twist reality in a self serving way. Man can rationalize anything.:devil

 

[stovebolts]

Split topic
http://www.christianforums.net/f17/man-evil-32112/