Translation By Faith

[Edward]

What can you tell me about Translation by Faith?

And what's the difference between Translation and transrelocation?

 

[Edward]

Our God is a God of the living.
He can do anything with anyone.

Yes! And He is no respecter of persons so all of us who are saved go immediately to be with the Lord when we give up the ghost here!

 

[for_his_glory]

I answered this is Post #34

He didn't have to be on earth to send a letter.

You might be grasping at straws about that. On the other hand anything can be possible, but yet only speculation.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes! And He is no respecter of persons so all of us who are saved go immediately to be with the Lord when we give up the ghost here!

I don't agree with that, as it is written that we will be raised from the dead at the return of Christ.
It will feel "instant" though, as their is no "time" in the grave.

 

[Whatever]

In Hebrews 11:5 KJV it uses Translated.

Your right, I didn't notice that.

 

[Edward]

I don't agree with that, as it is written that we will be raised from the dead at the return of Christ.
It will feel "instant" though, as their is no "time" in the grave.

So does that also mean that when we die in the flesh, that we will not be present with the Lord? Tear that page out?

It is instant from witness that I've heard. People have testimonies of being taken up to heaven and meeting their family members and stuff. Even their pets sometimes, which passed on, greeted them. People couldn't be in heaven greeting their relatives if they are in their grave. Maybe the condemned are in their grave bit not Believers!

Have you ever heard or watched testimonies about being taken up to visit to heaven? I have heard many of them over the years. Would you suggest that they are all liars?

 

[Peterlag]

What can you tell me about Translation by Faith?

And what's the difference between Translation and transrelocation?

I only know that faith is Trust.

 

[for_his_glory]

Ok so where did God take him? If he took Enoch to another location on earth, why didn't they say so? In Acts 8 when Philip gets reloacted to a different town, it says so.

I know this was not directed to me, but also wanted to answer. Philip was found by others after he was translated as we can agree with that, but just because scripture is silent of where God took him to does not mean he was caught up to the third heaven, but that no one who knew him could find him anymore in their area.

 

[Edward]

I know this was not directed to me, but also wanted to answer. Philip was found by others after he was translated as we can agree with that, but just because scripture is silent of where God took him to does not mean he was caught up to the third heaven, but that no one who knew him could find him anymore in their area.

I know. But it's highly suggestive to the thinking man that it makes sense that God did what He said, He took him.

 

[for_his_glory]

Here's a shorter video of the same Pastor on It's Supernatural. He has a coule real good testimonies.

I believe God can translate another to a different place here on earth, but yet I also believe those that say they were taken up to the third heaven were only in the Spirit seeing visions that the Holy Spirit gave them. I also believe it is only God that can translate anyone of faith to another area for His own purpose. These people with testimonies of being taken up to the third heaven, IMO, are only caught away in the Spirit, not bodily.

It seems odd to me that this man says we can translate ourselves, but when he held the hand of the other guy who is of faith, nothing happened to him as he admitted, so the example was not founded. I've never been translated, but while being in the Spirit, or even in my dreams, have had many visions given to me by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Edward]

I believe God can translate another to a different place here on earth, but yet I also believe those that say they were taken up to the third heaven were only in the Spirit seeing visions that the Holy Spirit gave them. I also believe it is only God that can translate anyone of faith to another area for His own purpose. These people with testimonies of being taken up to the third heaven, IMO, are only caught away in the Spirit, not bodily.

That all makes sense, maybe the ones who go to heaven are all in the Spirit. I think is more testimonies from people about being relocated around the earth for a purpose, they're always given something to do. Or else it becomes imeediately apparent.

This Pastr in the video, Bruce Aleen gives a bunch of translation testimonies and one of them in a different he says he was taken back in time for a purpose. Twice actually. Once was during the black plague to pray for a dying mother and lead the family to Jesus. They wouldn't let the little daughter come in the house cuz Mom has the Plague! So she was outside and crying and prayed for God to help. So God sent Bruce Aleen back in time! In the other one Bruce was taken back to biblical days Jerusalem. And what he had to do is to walk all the way through the town declaring that David, will be the next King! He said it was so nasty in Jerusalem ythen. It stunk of fish and urine and animal feces, blah. He said some people said Of course David will be King!Others said That is prepostureous! Still others said, King Schming, who cares? That's some big testimony there.

Bruce Allen realized when he got back home again, that, he went back into time and led that family to the Lord as the mother was dying. And (God) he helped and did his job, but he said he asked God later, What would have happened if I didnt go back? Would the family still be saved? Bruce was like, how can this be? That was during another time period, I hadn't even been born before any of them died...?? And God said to Him, I wrote into my book like that. In the plans that way!

I lean towards believing this man's witness. I've never seen or done anything like that myself. But I have even smaller things but not like out working for the Kingdom at night after you go to bed. A few of these guys have said similar.

That's Twilight Zone. Go back in time to speak Gospel. But God is unpredictable in His ways so that makes it more likely to be true.

 

[Edward]

It seems odd to me that this man says we can translate ourselves, but when he held the hand of the other guy who is of faith, nothing happened to him as he admitted, so the example was not founded. I've never been translated, but while being in the Spirit, or even in my dreams, have had many visions given to me by the Holy Spirit.

This man, Bruce Alllen has a lot of material out and most of them are laced with new testimonies of other things too and he fills in some of the wholes in other places about some of the things you ask and wonder about.

He did a video once about He was taken up above the earth I *think* and the were a bunch of doors and the Lord said pick one and walk through it. So he tried two or three and said he went to different cities on earth that will be the Lord's Sanctuary cities and a place to run to from the anti christ for safe haven. I dunno if it would be Believer initiated or God initiated, I would think God, but, I don't know for sure.

Oh I get it. It's not that we will be able to Translate ourselves, for God will do that. But we as Believers are charged with learning all we can about Translation and believing it because it will play a heavy role in end times.

So how did you think that Christians would be able to travel after the Mark comes out and they do not have a Mark? Can't buy a plane ticket. Can't buy gasoline...

That's the part that we do. We Believe it, study & learn it and expect it to happen, have Faith in Him that He will do it.

 

[for_his_glory]

I know. But it's highly suggestive to the thinking man that it makes sense that God did what He said, He took him.

Yes, God took him, but yet no one knows where he took him to.

2 Enoch he talks about being taken up to ten heavens and being shown great things, but also said God would bring him back to earth to tell his sons of all things he was shown.

One passage of scripture can not contradict another passage as we only read in Hebrews 11:5 that God took him so he would not see death and was not found, but in John 3:13 it says no one has ever entered into heaven, so where does that leave us in understanding the scriptures in what happened to Enoch.

Taken can also mean transferred to another place so that he would not see his death coming by the hands of those he was prophesying against that no doubt wanted to kill him Jude 1:14. We know that Enoch died by that of what is said in Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. This verse includes all those in that chapter that were of faith, including Enoch.

 

[Edward]

Yes, God took him, but yet no one knows where he took him to.

Oh, come on. What is the hope of our calling? What is it that we aspire to?

To be joined unto the Lord. To go to be with Him forever more. Am I right?

But not you Enoch....Lol. What do you suppose that Enoch aspired to? It is the Lord. It is the Lord!! Plus God Himself was specifiically pleased with Enoch...so...let's drop you off on Mars, Enoch. No, that don't make sense. The Lord wants to dwell with His people. We want to be with the Lord. That's what all this is!

And that's what God does. He gathers His people to Him. Enoch was done (at least for then), so God tool Him and the ony place that makes sense that he went is to Heaven.

 

[Edward]

One passage of scripture can not contradict another passage as we only read in Hebrews 11:5 that God took him so he would not see death and was not found, but in John 3:13 it says no one has ever entered into heaven, so where does that leave us in understanding the scriptures in what happened to Enoch.

I already explained John 3:13 to you.
This supposed contrdiction smells like it all fits together somehow. Perhaps, the general rule for humanity is that no man can go to heaven, but with exception to...people like, Enoch and Elijah.

The written word likens getting to know the Kingdom of God and His Spirit to, different levels of water. Ankle deep, waist deep, breast deep, and over your head and deep so you have to swim! I bet Enoch could swim.

Apparently, I have not learned to swim yet, though I thought I could, lol.

 

[Hopeful]

So does that also mean that when we die in the flesh, that we will not be present with the Lord? Tear that page out?

Keep the page in.
There is no "time" in heaven, and God can do anything.
But until we are raised at Jesus' return, we lay in a grave.
Stick with just what is written in 2 Cor 5:8..."We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."
He wills what you assert is reality.

It is instant from witness that I've heard. People have testimonies of being taken up to heaven and meeting their family members and stuff. Even their pets sometimes, which passed on, greeted them. People couldn't be in heaven greeting their relatives if they are in their grave. Maybe the condemned are in their grave bit not Believers!

Ask them if they commit sin, and you will be able to determine from whom they are born, (1 John 3:9-10), and whom they serve, (Matt 6:24)

Have you ever heard or watched testimonies about being taken up to visit to heaven? I have heard many of them over the years. Would you suggest that they are all liars?

Ask them if they commit sin.
It is written that we can tell a lot about a man by their fruit. (Matt 7:15-17)

 

[D-D-W]

Do you think it is possible for a man to be born on earth and never die in the flesh, and go to Heaven or not die the 2nd death either?

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

 

[Edward]

Stick with just what is written in 2 Cor 5:8..."We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."
He wills what you assert is reality.

Oh, I'm willing all right! But what about

Mark 12:26-27
26 “But now, as to whether the dead will be raised—haven’t you ever read about this in the writings of Moses, in the story of the burning bush? Long after Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob had died, God said to Moses,[e] ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’[f] 27 So he is the God of the living, not the dead. You have made a serious error.”

If God is the God of the living, then Believers that have passed on in the flesh are not dead or go to their graves. They have a God. A God of the living so the don't go to the grave, only our flesh body does. It is the Believers made Saints which make up the body of the cloud of witnesses. When you die, you go to God, your life, your spirit. You. Conscious.

You know how you have someone say, Grandma's in Heaven looking down on us, or similar? It's true. The don't interact with us. They are Witnesses. A cloud of witnesses! A lot of them. Like, all Believers which have died in Christ on earth sinc the creation. All of them.

Ask them if they commit sin, and you will be able to determine from whom they are born, (1 John 3:9-10), and whom they serve, (Matt 6:24)
Ask them if they commit sin.
It is written that we can tell a lot about a man by their fruit. (Matt 7:15-17)

What? There is no sin in heaven. And how would I know the fruits that anyone has in Heaven? I have not been to Heaven since being born on the earth yet. So I can't answer that.

Broken down, it's kind of simple. Unbelievers who die are sent to hell in the bowels of the earth and Believers that died in Christ go immediately to be with the Lord.

Hell is a temporary holding place until the great white throne judgement when they get resurected unto condemnation then get thrown into the lake of fire.

There's two resurrectons. The resurrection of the saved, and the resurrection of the damned. When Jesus returns to the earth at His 2nd coming, He brings the Saints with Him! Which are the dead in Christ. At that time, they get reunited with their flesh body (and maybe soul?) for final bema seat judgement & rewards and then whatever glorification or extra transformation. Maybe that's when we receive our permanent Spiritual body?

I can not stress enough...All of the dead in Christ are in Heaven and alive as we chat. Watching us, perhaps laughing sometimes or even praying for us or their family or whoever. (Maybe that's how they earn extra fruit while in Heaven?!)

They might have to testify in either court proceedings, so they are paying attention and also trying to help. The great white thron judgement and the bema seat judgements are, real court proceedings in the Courts of Heaven. Not many people have heard about the courts of heaven. That is a wonderful study! And I have a heard a couple testimonies from youtube Pastors about they went to the courts of heaven and were allowed to watch or even participate.

But why should that suprise anyone or seem odd?! That's all scripture talks about! Thrones, Judgements, Commandments, Honor, Belief, Honesty and a host of relevant examples of court typr proceedings.

Satan and evil spirits have to petition God to sift His children (Remember Job?!) They have to ask. The enemy does not have a blank check to attack us. But people can unwittingly invite them in also so we must be wise as serpants and as harmelss as doves....Just like one is expected to act in court, Lol!

 

[Edward]

1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

That's at the Rapture, not the 2nd coming. There is two events. One he comes in the air, and gathers his people and comes as a thief in the night, another time He comes and sets foot on the earth and every eye will see Him.

Let's look at more of that passage for context.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-14

The Hope of the Resurrection​

13 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we want you to know what will happen to the believers who have died[f] so you will not grieve like people who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and was raised to life again, we also believe that when Jesus returns, God will bring back with him the believers who have died. ../NLT

How can Jesus bring us back with Him if we are in the graves and need resurrected?

First the rapture, then the 2nd coming. I *suspect* that, this time period between the rapture and the 2nd coming is...time enough for the Marraige supper of the Lamb?!!!

15 We tell you this directly from the Lord: We who are still living when the Lord returns will not meet him ahead of those who have died.[g] 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died[h] will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever. 18 So encourage each other with these words.

 

[for_his_glory]

Oh, I found it, you had a typo and wrote 2 Chronicles 12:12. It is 2nd Chronicles 21:12

Today, we are used to having dates of important events clarified. This, however, is not how the Bible is written. Some biblical writers included historical references, such as what king was reigning, and we can use those hints to determine approximate dates, but the Bible rarely goes into specific detail about exactly when events took place. We are used to historical accounts being written in strict chronological order, but, in the Bible, historical events are sometimes grouped thematically, with no real concern for chronology. If we follow the chronology based on the order the events as presented in 2 Kings and 2 Chronicles, here is what led up to Elijah’s letter to Jehoram:

1. Jehoram is anointed king of Judah (2 Kings 1:17), ruling with his father, Jehoshaphat, for the final 5 or 6 years of his father’s reign.

2. Elijah is translated to heaven (2 Kings 2:1–18).

3. Jehoshaphat, advised by Elisha, teams with the king of Israel in a fight against Moab (2 Kings 3).

4. Jehoshaphat dies, leaving Jehoram to rule alone (2 Chronicles 21:1).

5. Jehoram murders all his brothers (2 Chronicles 21:4) and builds idolatrous high places in Judah (verse 11).

6. Jehoram receives a letter from Elijah that details his judgment (2 Chronicles 21:12–15).

According to the above chronology, Elijah was taken from this world during the joint reign of Jehoshaphat and Jehoram. The question then becomes, how did Elijah send a letter to Jehoram about the evil the king did, when Elijah was not around during that time?

There are several reasonable explanations for how Elijah’s letter was delivered to King Jehoram seemingly after Elijah’s translation to heaven:

First, it’s possible that the author of 2 Kings did not place the account of Elijah’s translation to heaven in chronological order with the surrounding chapters. Elijah could have still been serving as prophet until much later in the reign of Jehoram.

Another possibility is that Elijah wrote the letter to Jehoram before his departure to heaven and left it for Elisha or someone else to deliver. Elijah was a prophet, after all. God could easily have given him the words to write ahead of time.

Another possibility is that, before his translation to heaven, Elijah told Elisha what Jehoram would do and what God’s judgment would be. When the time came, Elisha wrote out Elijah’s prophecy and delivered it to King Jehoram.

So there is lots of ways that Elijah could have got a letter to Jehorham. Even if he was in Heaven, the Lord got a letter to you too, didn't He? (your Bible), so why couldn't He get a letter to the King also? He can.

I got money from Heaven before. Remember my testimony of the Angel who came to my garage sale? Kept asking how much do you need? Talked himself up from 1900 dollars to 2400 dollars for a bunch of junk, lol? Ok, not pure junk if there was women in the house, but there wasn't so it was junk to me. So If God can send me money, then He can send letters to earth also, lol.

These are good possibilities, but yet it only says Elijah was caught up to heaven in a whirlwind.

Elijah, having ascended into the air (First heaven) by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Elijah was taken up by the whirlwind into the first heaven and transported to another location on Earth. God did not see fit in His purpose to reveal his whereabouts. Chariot of fire is used at times figuratively for host (angels) like in 2 Kings 2:11, 12: 6:17; Psalms 68:17; 104:1-4. Elijah, by his prayers and his counsel was the "chariot of Israel and the horseman thereof", meaning Elijah was the stronghold of Israel, the driving force of God. The Israelite's never used chariots till the time of David.

When you compare 2 Kings 2:11-15 with 2 Kings 6:17 you see that God sent the host/angels down to Elijah who caught him up in a whirlwind and translated him to parts unknown.
A whirlwind can only happen within the atmosphere of the first heaven.

I have to stand by what these two scriptures say:

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

 

[Edward]

These are good possibilities, but yet it only says Elijah was caught up to heaven in a whirlwind.

Elijah, having ascended into the air (First heaven) by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Elijah was taken up by the whirlwind into the first heaven and transported to another location on Earth. God did not see fit in His purpose to reveal his whereabouts. Chariot of fire is used at times figuratively for host (angels) like in 2 Kings 2:11, 12: 6:17; Psalms 68:17; 104:1-4. Elijah, by his prayers and his counsel was the "chariot of Israel and the horseman thereof", meaning Elijah was the stronghold of Israel, the driving force of God. The Israelite's never used chariots till the time of David.

When you compare 2 Kings 2:11-15 with 2 Kings 6:17 you see that God sent the host/angels down to Elijah who caught him up in a whirlwind and translated him to parts unknown.
A whirlwind can only happen within the atmosphere of the first heaven.

I have to stand by what these two scriptures say:

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment

That Angel who came to my garage sale wound up giving me $2400 dollars. $100 more than I needed so it worked out to what I needed even what I hadn't thought of yet, lol...I was $2000 behind in rent, and I had a $300 utility bill shutoff notice...and I kne wimmediately, a $100 for groceries, lol! God thinks of everything!