Translation By Faith

[Edward]

What can you tell me about Translation by Faith?

And what's the difference between Translation and transrelocation?

 

[Hopeful]

What can you tell me about Translation by Faith?

And what's the difference between Translation and transrelocation?

I have never heard of either term.
"Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:" (Col 1:13)
"Translated" in this verse comes from the Greek "methistemi"..or, transfer, carry away, depose, (and other synonyms).
Just think "transfer(ed)" when you read it.
Hole that helps.

 

[for_his_glory]

I could be wrong, but I think they are the same as in God's supernatural power to translate/transfer across time, the earth and the heavens for the purpose of His Kingdom. It's like God who translated/transferred/transrelocated Enoch, Elijah, Philip and John that we read about in scripture. It's all to accomplish His plan and will in the earth.

 

[Edward]

I could be wrong, but I think they are the same as in God's supernatural power to translate/transfer across time, the earth and the heavens for the purpose of His Kingdom. It's like God who translated/transferred/transrelocated Enoch, Elijah, Philip and John that we read about in scripture. It's all to accomplish His plan and will in the earth.

That's exactly my understanding too. Enoch & Elijah were transslated and Phillip was transrelocated. With the difference Phillip was transrelocated because he was transportd from one spot on earth to another spot on earth 40 miles away so that's called Transrelocation.

Enoch & Elijah were Translated because they went to Heaven.

I started this thread as a question just to see how many people knows about it and if there's interest in it. I was about to give up, lol.

 

[for_his_glory]

Enoch & Elijah were Translated because they went to Heaven.

Man teaches this, but neither one were taken up into the third heaven where God sits on His throne.

Enoch, Moses, Abraham and Elijah were not taken up to the third Heaven as some teach as when they were seen (not Enoch or Abraham) of Peter, James and John in Matthew 17:1-9 it was only a transfiguration like a vision that they saw Jesus transfigured as was Moses and Elijah. There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13. Everyone that has ever died is asleep in their grave and when Christ returns they will hear His voice as He calls all of them to come forth. They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation, Matthew 24:29-31; John 5:28, 29; 6:40 It is only our spirit/breath/soul that goes back to God who gave it, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7.

Gen 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Does not say Enoch was taken up to heaven, but that he was only translated that he should not see death at that particular time being he was 365 years old. Should not see death means since Enoch walked with God he would not see the second death, Rev 20:6, but only that of the first death, Hebrews 9:27, as all his days were three hundred and sixty as he died, but no one knows where.

Genesis 49: 30 In the cave that is in the field of Machpelah, which is before Mamre, in the land of Canaan, which Abraham bought with the field of Ephron the Hittite for a possession of a burying place. 31 There they buried Abraham and Sarah his wife; there they buried Isaac and Rebekah his wife; and there I buried Leah.

Deuteronomy 34:5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD. 6 and he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Beth-peor: but no man knoweth of his sepulcher unto this day.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. (Heaven here means atmosphere, first heaven)

Elijah, having ascended into the air (First heaven) by a whirlwind was carried away out of sight beyond the horizon. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him. How long after? There are some difficulties in figuring the exact chronology as it varies from 2 to 10 years or more. A note in Josephus (a Jewish historian of the first century A.D.) says 4 years, while the JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA figures it at 7 years.

Regardless of the exact number of years there came writing to Jehoram from Elijah the prophet, saying..." (2Chron 21:12). Now the wickedness of Jehoram, for which he was being rebuked in the letter, took place after Elijah was taken away, yet the letter speaks of these things as past events, and the punishment to come upon him as yet future. So the idea of some, that Elijah wrote the letter before he was removed by the whirlwind, is proved wrong.

Elijah was taken up by the whirlwind into the first heaven and transported to another location on Earth. God did not see fit in His purpose to reveal his whereabouts. Chariot of fire is used at times figuratively for host (angels) like in 2 Kings 2:11, 12: 6:17; Psalms 68:17; 104:1-4. Elijah, by his prayers and his counsel was the "chariot of Israel and the horseman thereof", meaning Elijah was the stronghold of Israel, the driving force of God. The Israelite's never used chariots till the time of David.

When you compare 2 Kings 2:11-15 with 2 Kings 6:17 you see that God sent the host/angels down to Elijah who caught him up in a whirlwind and translated him to parts unknown. Several years after he was taken away King Jehoram received a letter from him.​

 

[Edward]

Enoch, Moses, Abraham and Elijah were not taken up to the third Heaven as some teach as when they were seen (not Enoch or Abraham) of Peter, James and John in Matthew 17:1-9 it was only a transfiguration like a vision that they saw Jesus transfigured as was Moses and Elijah. There is no one in the third heaven except God, Jesus and the angels, John 3:13.

That can't be can it? I've heard so many testimonies from different people who were taken up and visited heaven or whatever, sometimes they have a life review. But almost everybody says there are people there. Some say lots of people. Some have talked about meeting relatives in Heaven that died before they were born on earth. There's too many of these testimones to believe that the dead sleep and are unconscious until Jesus comes back.

If the truth is established by two witnesses and I have no idea how many testimonies I have heard at this point, but easily prolly 50 to 100? And they can't all be lying. And most of them are saying the same type things whch forces us to sit up and take notice.

Everyone that has ever died is asleep in their grave and when Christ returns they will hear His voice as He calls all of them to come forth. They that have done good, unto the resurrection of life, and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation,

But it says He brings the Saints with Him when He comes in
Zechariah 14:5
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with [c]You.../

And also, what about absent from the body present with the Lord? That has to be true also. He is the God of the living, remember that. If you think that you are not (at this moment) sitting with Christ in Heavenly places, then you have some studying to do, lol. We were created in God's image. Well God is able to be in multiple places at once. Apparently, so can we because it is written that, we are seated in heavenly places with the Lord. So it is one of our attributes as a spiritual being.

You are a spiritual being, right? Your flesh body is a temporary dwelling place for your spirit?
Then, your spirit entered your body at birth, right? So before you was, I am? Would that be accurate?

(We knew Him before we were born!) It says that too. Before we were in the womb, He knew us. He just gave us a memory wipe as we were born! He's a big joker! I think it's funny in a way.

 

[Edward]

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Does not say Enoch was taken up to heaven, but that he was only translated that he should not see death at that particular time being he was 365 years old. Should not see death means since Enoch walked with God he would not see the second death, Rev 20:6, but only that of the first death, Hebrews 9:27, as all his days were three hundred and sixty as he died, but no one knows where.

This is very interesting one. Enoch was, and then he wasn't because God took him, right? Where did He take Enoch to? To the grave to sleep? But our God's business is life! So if Enoch walked with God and was pleassing to God, then it's a fair assumption that Enoch wound up in Heaven! Or is he still walking the earth?

I admit that it does not say that Enoch was taken to Heaven. But I do notice that it does not say that he was not taken to Heaven! :wink

God is the God of the living and His business is saving lives. I know enough about how good my Lord is to be able to say to you, if Enoch pleased God enough that God would take him...then it's to be with Him, GOD. Sure Enoch has been to Heaven, that's my God too! Enoch was so good, that God gave him a promotion. He could have thought that Enoch could do better for Him if he was with Him. That makes a certain amount of spiritual sense to me. Enoch is working out of Heaven right now I bet.

In fact, I have heard a testimony from a Pastor online that he received one or two visits from Enoch and they were powerful testimonies and very credible to my spirit.

I don't believe in soul sleep. People who die, if they're saved they go to be with the Lord. Some testimony suggests that some go a orientation center, and all of them start working for the Lord in their capacity and all are looking down upon us as the cloud of witnesses.

Other people who die and are not saved, go to a temporary holding facility commonly referred to as hell and at the appointed time of judgement they will be released for judgement and then tossed into the lake od fire for eternity.

That's about as good as my dark glasses will show me so far, lol.

 

[for_his_glory]

That can't be can it? I've heard so many testimonies from different people who were taken up and visited heaven or whatever, sometimes they have a life review. But almost everybody says there are people there. Some say lots of people. Some have talked about meeting relatives in Heaven that died before they were born on earth. There's too many of these testimones to believe that the dead sleep and are unconscious until Jesus comes back.

If the truth is established by two witnesses and I have no idea how many testimonies I have heard at this point, but easily prolly 50 to 100? And they can't all be lying. And most of them are saying the same type things whch forces us to sit up and take notice.

But it says He brings the Saints with Him when He comes in

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

I can't explain what others have seen as out of body experiences, but according to that verse they were not taken up to heaven and then sent back down. Many times near death experiences will cause the mind to think they have seen such things, but I have no knowledge in that area. I do remember one time I was caught up in the Spirit and it felt like I was taken up to heaven engulfed in the warmest loving light that I did not want to leave, but all I heard was a voice, whether the Holy Spirit or Jesus himself I could not tell, but was given instructions for my future.

What Jesus brings with Him is the very Spirit/breath of those who have died whose spirit went back to God who gave it. Ecc 12:7

2 Corintians 5:1-8
vs. 1 is speaking about the tabernacle of God that is within us as we are the Temple of God, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17, and when we physically die we will have eternal life with Him in the New Jerusalem
vs. 2 we desire to be in our new home, the New Jerusalem, that will be ushered down from heaven at the end of days, Rev 21
vs. 3 we are clothed in Gods righteousness as we will not be found naked, Isaiah 61:10
vs. 4 We are the Temple of God, but yet we do have burdens as we still live in this fleshly body waiting for immortality when Christ returns, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54
vs. 5 basic as we have Gods Spirit dwelling in us as we need to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh, Galatians 5:16, 17
vs. 6 we are confident knowing that if we are walking in the flesh we are absent from God because flesh and Spirit can not mix, Galatians 5:17
vs. 7 we walk by faith, which is Christ Jesus as we seek those things from above and not the things of this world, Colossians 3:1-4
vs. 8 we are confident if we are walking in the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) we are no longer following the lust of the flesh, 1 John 2:16

And also, what about absent from the body present with the Lord?

Absent from the body and present with the Lord means that we are no longer in the flesh, but now walking in the Spirit having fellowship with God while still being here on earth. If we are in the flesh then we are absent from the Lord

We do sit in heavenly places with Christ Jesus as we are risen with Him and seek those things which are from above. We are not literally sitting with Him, but in a Spiritual sense we are as we fellowship with Him.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

You are a spiritual being, right? Your flesh body is a temporary dwelling place for your spirit?
Then, your spirit entered your body at birth, right? So before you was, I am? Would that be accurate?

(We knew Him before we were born!) It says that too. Before we were in the womb, He knew us. He just gave us a memory wipe as we were born! He's a big joker! I think it's funny in a way.

This is a false teaching from the Mormons doctrines, What entered our bodies when we were born was the very spirit/breath of God that made us a living soul. That spirit/breath is the only thing that returns back to God who gave it when we physically die.

Jesus nor the angels have never returned for anyone after His ascending to sit at the right hand of the Father being our mediator before God, John 3:13. The resurrection of the dead has not happened yet as it is only our breath/spirit that made us a living soul that returns back to God who gave it when this physical body dies and returns to the dust of the ground from where it came from, Genesis 2:7; Ecc 12:7. No one is resurrected until the one and only return of Christ who calls His Bride to meet Him in the air and then forever we will be with Him in all of Gods glory, John 5:28, 29; 6:40; 1 Corinthians 15:51-55; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

 

[for_his_glory]

I am going out on a limb here as I have only started to research this with only a few things I have put together so far. When I get a chance I want to dig deeper into this.

Book of Enoch Chapter 51-55 Enoch is once again caught up in a whirlwind carried off westwards and shown the secrets of heaven by the angel that went with him. This is also the end of the second parable he was given.

Book of Moses 6:38 And they came forth to hear him upon the high places saying unto the tent keepers, tarry ye here and keep the tents while we go yonder to behold the seer, for he prophesieth and there is a strange thing in the land, a wild man has come among us.

As Enoch set out to fulfill his prophetic commission in the wilderness it seems his preaching at first attracted listeners only because of its value as local entertainment. He was known as the noisy religious fanatic, or the wild man in his appearance in the way he looked and possibly dressed in animal skins like John the Baptist.

Notice in Hebrews 11:5 that Enoch was translated that he should not see death and was not found. We know flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God and no one has ever been made immortal yet until Christ return, 1 Corinthians 15:50-58. Just because God took him away, possibly in another whirlwind that he should not see death at that time, does not mean he was taken up to the third heaven where God sits on His thrown.

Enoch stood out from many others as He walked with God in great faith. He being taken by God that he could not be found or taste death could be that God translated/transferred him to a safer place that he would not see the kind of violent death that would have otherwise come upon him in a hostile atmosphere where he was preaching the word of God. What Enoch taught would have challenged the heretical beliefs of those in the wilderness who no doubt worshiped their own gods and idols just like those in Jerusalem that came against Christ and had Him killed.

If he was taken up to the third heaven it would have contradicted what is written in John 3:13; Acts 2:29-34 and Hebrews 9:27. If I ever get this all put together some day, as life is a little crazy right now with hubby in therapy and so many doctor visits as he is not allowed to drive yet since his accident, I will start a new thread on this.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't believe in soul sleep. People who die, if they're saved they go to be with the Lord. Some testimony suggests that some go a orientation center, and all of them start working for the Lord in their capacity and all are looking down upon us as the cloud of witnesses.

Other people who die and are not saved, go to a temporary holding facility commonly referred to as hell and at the appointed time of judgement they will be released for judgement and then tossed into the lake od fire for eternity.

Soul sleep is a another false doctrine that the LDS teaches. One has to be careful of all the testimonies that are out there as many come against that of what has already been written like John 3:13; John 5:28-29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and Revelation 20:11-15.

 

[for_his_glory]

Edward I started a new thread in Theology forum entitled "Enoch". Forget the part I said about the book of Moses as I did not know at the time this is a book written by the LDS.

 

[D-D-W]

Phillip was transrelocated because he was transported from one spot on earth to another spot on earth 40 miles away so that's called Transrelocation.
Enoch & Elijah were Translated because they went to Heaven.

Neither of those terms are biblical or in common usage in that context.
The only common usage of Translation is from one language to another.

Before this thread, I had never heard of the term "transrelocated." Sounds made up to me.

 

[for_his_glory]

Neither of those terms are biblical or in common usage in that context.
The only common usage of Translation is from one language to another.

Before this thread, I had never heard of the term "transrelocated." Sounds made up to me.

You are right as a better word would be transferred from place to place. Actually transrelocation is a word, which means being transferred to another location.

 

[D-D-W]

How about "Beam me up Scotty!?"

 

[Edward]

Neither of those terms are biblical or in common usage in that context.
The only common usage of Translation is from one language to another.

Before this thread, I had never heard of the term "transrelocated." Sounds made up to me.

It was unfamiar to me too the first time I heard it. I thought it was just, Translation by Faith...but the Pastors who teach in these areas have started using both terms to clarify was it on earth or did they go to heaven.

 

[eddif]

When we move to the changed inner man ( kingdom of God) rather than the external practice of religion, would one of the terms sort of apply?

The inner man has imagery:
The hidden man of the heart and the mind of Christ replace the heart of stone and the carnal mind.

The New Jerusalem is more spiritual than the old Jerusalem. The Bible says the New Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven. Abraham was looking for a city whose builder and maker was God.

Matthew chapters 5,6,7 move from physical religious objects to less concrete attitudes of the inner man. The conversation after Pentecost shows a change.

I am going to stop right here for now. If I do not give a pause I know what comes next.

Elisha got a double portion. One glory to another.

eddif

 

[Edward]

Should not see death means since Enoch walked with God he would not see the second death,

No it's more than that. I will not see the 2nd death but God hasn't "taken" me anywhere. But Enoch was Pleasing to God (It says that), so He took him.

Do you think it is possible for a man to be born on earth and never die in the flesh, and go to Heaven or not die the 2nd death either?

 

[for_his_glory]

No it's more than that. I will not see the 2nd death but God hasn't "taken" me anywhere. But Enoch was Pleasing to God (It says that), so He took him.

Do you think it is possible for a man to be born on earth and never die in the flesh, and go to Heaven or not die the 2nd death either?

I can see that we will not see eye to eye on this. But at least it has nothing to do with our salvation and I have enjoyed discussing this with you.

 

[Edward]

Me too!

Would you like to hear my Testimony of Translation by Faith?

You see I was learning about Translation and there's a few preachers out there teaching that God Translates many people. And I had beeen praying for God to give me a demonstration of Translation very much during that time period.

long story short cuz I dunno if you even want to hear it, it wasn't a biblical type translation and what he actually did was to let me drive a vehicle that was stone cold out of gas...!!! Because I needed to for something very important so I prayed fervently, and tada. Wow! Praise teh Lord I made my appointment!!!

It's a good story, and true cuz I was there.

 

[for_his_glory]

Me too!

Would you like to hear my Testimony of Translation by Faith?

You see I was learning about Translation and there's a few preachers out there teaching that God Translates many people. And I had beeen praying for God to give me a demonstration of Translation very much during that time period.

long story short cuz I dunno if you even want to hear it, it wasn't a biblical type translation and what he actually did was to let me drive a vehicle that was stone cold out of gas...!!! Because I needed to for something very important so I prayed fervently, and tada. Wow! Praise teh Lord I made my appointment!!!

It's a good story, and true cuz I was there.

God does miraculous things for us like your can of coffee and getting you to work on time. There is not doubt about that as I have seen it in my own life so many times.